Is Someone Close to you a Compulsive Hoarder?

[Mike 03]

Poll question: Is Someone Close to you a Compulsive Hoarder?

This topic is one that is close to my heart, as I have extremely close friends who became compulsive hoarders in their thirties. Last night there was a radio program on this topic that animated my interest in asking this question, because for many years I have believed that hoarding, in some form, is much more widespread and common than statistics would suggest.

When evaluating these questions, keep in mind there is a spectrum of hoarding. Some folks hoard essentials in modest quantities, while some people hoard many things that most people would consider junk, so admittedly this is a wide area to explore.

Your opinions and stories are most welcome!

P.S. Thank you for participating. I know this is a very sensitive subject.

[Catshrink]

1. Does my cat count?

He's always hiding things under the sofa.

[Warpy]

2. Sometimes I worry about myself

I've been food insecure so I tend to overbuy food, especially when I'm depressed during the winter.

I'm also going through this place shelf by shelf, appalled by all the stuff I have. I take multiple loads to the thrift shop yearly, but it all still seems to be here cluttering the place up.

I do know I buy very little now, preferring to get rid of stuff rather than add more to the mess.

[DiverDave]

69. perfectly natural

I get the same feelings if I see my cupboards low.
I'll go spend a bunch at the grocery store to get them filled up.

My kids dont go hungry, thats for sure

[EFerrari]

117. I didn't realize my mom was somewhat OCD until I was grown up.

So, yeah, I try to keep an eye out for my own stuff. For a while I was "a collector" but I got rid of all that stuff. It feels nice, actually, and I never go to a store unless I absolutely have to.

[Warpy]

119. I need to replace my energy sucking refrigerator-freezer

so I went through it over the weekend, looking at what I could consolidate into my "Costco Freezer," a little 6 cubic foot job.

I was appalled. There was stuff buried back there that has to be from 2003, the year I cleaned out both freezers and unplugged the Costco job when I went to Florida for a couple of months.

The only thing I'm food shopping for over the next couple of months is veggies.

[virgogal]

3. Yeah,my ex.

[MattBaggins]

4. My wife (gets it from her family)

Not sure if it is a German thing; but my basement is full of crap most from my kids. I can't get rid of it because she insist it will sell in the next yard sale we never have.

Why do I need three high chairs, five bouncy thingamajigs and thousands of boxes of kids clothes?

[Maru Kitteh]

129. If you think some stuff in your basement is hoarding - you've never seen a hoarder.

[dana_b]

5. my grandmother (now deceased) lived through the great depression

and hoarded food and clothes. She lived only with her husband and had a completely full regrigerator/freezer as well as a full freezer in the garage. When we went through it after she passed, it was packed full of meat (all labeled) and some of it was years old. She had a huge pantry again packed "to the gills" with all kind of food - some almost as old as I was at the time (ew!).

The women of Orange County had nothing on my grandma as ar as walk in closets and clothes are concerned. So much still had tags on it - must have been hundred of pairs of shoes too. I had never seen anything like it.

[sandnsea]

26. My grandmother did too

She kept everything, absolutely everything. Had tons of food she had canned over the years. She had baggies of red milk jug caps, to go with the plastic jugs she had stored separately. She saved aluminum foil, bread baggies, rubber bands, jars, absolutely everything. Hers was all nice and neatly stored though. My mil saved everything too, but like you see on tv saved things, a nightmare.

[TwilightGardener]

66. I think everyone's grandma who lived through the Depression does this--

same stuff, too--foil, styrofoam meat trays, bread bags, rubber bands, milk jugs...yep, yep, yep. That's my grandma.

[NotThisTime]

88. yup, same thing here... the depression seriously altered them :(

And they aren't looking to change even when they are 80, it's awful

[Lorien]

112. Mine certainly did, and I do to some extent

though I very rarely buy anything that's not a necessity.

[hunter]

43. My grandma had to be forcibly removed from her house by the police and paramedics.

Horrible, horrible, she was kicking, hitting, biting and screaming bloody murder all the way.

My grandma kept everything. She'd put burnt out lighbulbs back into the packages she bought them in and keep them. She kept Styrofoam fast food boxes, sometimes with food still in them. She kept all her junk mail, newspapers, magazines... everything.

When she was in a nursing home she hoarded stuff there too. I'd take her for a "walk" in her wheelchair and she'd ask me to pick up pine cones for her because she didn't want anyone throwing them away. Her wheelchair carried a hundred pounds of trash and considerably less little old crazy lady.

[dana_b]

77. oh my -

that must have been terrible to see your grandma go through that.

[slackmaster]

64. I have an aunt who hoards food for the same reason

The last time I visited her home, she had about six gallons of catsup among other things.

[RockaFowler]

78. My Grandmother was like this, too

When my Grandfather passed away in 1994, we went to their house and could not believe the amount of stuff my Grandma had. She had canned goods everywhere around the house. The entire porch was filled with bags and bags of groceries. Her Cadillac was filled with groceries and she hadn't driven it in over a year. The freezers were both filled with bread that no-one had ever eaten. Tere was so much meat in the freezers as well. She used to buy it when it was on sale and never use it. My Grandma only ate hamburger meat, but she had chicken and steaks in the freezer. My Grandpa had a piano in the office that he hadn't played in almost 10 years. It wasn't because he couldn't see anymore, it was because my Grandma had paperwork and boxes all over it. You couldn't even walk through the room anymore. My Grandma never went upstairs anymore - she couldn't. So she slept on the couch. My Grandpa never cleaned in his entire life, so the upstairs was a complete disaster. My Mom, talked to my Grandma downstairs as us kids threw out junk upstairs from the windows. It was horrible. We had to use a mask and gloves everywhere. It couldn' have been healthy for them. My Grandma finally got a real bed downstairs. My Mom bought her a daybed that looked great and made her feel so much better.

About 6 months later my Grandma died. We went back to the house and the upstairs was stillin the same shape as when we left. The downstairs was a disaster again. My Grandma kicked my Mom out of the house about 3 months earlier because my Mom kept cleaning up after my Grandma. Grammy couldn't take the neatness anymore. It was so sad.

[dana_b]

86. seeing all of these responses

is eye opening. Thinkng about the times that they saw in their lives made a huge imprint on them.

Food in the car?! That's a new one to me!

[Blue_In_AK]

80. We discovered the same when my husband's mom passed away.

Her closet was full of clothes she had never worn. I never saw so many pairs of pink/white slacks in one place. Luckily she had very good taste, and we knew someone who was just her size who was thrilled to get the clothes.

[snooper2]

111. canned "something" from 1974

Found that when spending a day cleaning mother-in-laws kitchen and pantry during a full day. She was gone at the hospital all day so we took the opportunity as she wouldn't have "allowed" the cleaning had she been there.

Fucking gross...I threw away 3 30 gallon trash bags full of canned goods all expired. I found at least one can of evaporated milk for every of the last 30 years.

[Arugula Latte]

116. Same with my Grandma.

When she died in '99, we found cans in her basement that probably went back to the Eisenhower administration.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

6. I keep copies of all my posts and responses... is that bad?? n/t

[KingFlorez]

7. I have an Aunt who keeps a lot of useless things

She as store catalogs that are almost 20 years. Her home was at one time literally piled to the ceiling with boxes and boxes of junk.

[Kceres]

20. My aunt, too. We had to clean her house out when she could no longer care for herself.

It was a nightmare. There was so much stuff piled up that it was actually composting on the bottom. It was disgusting and upsetting. Weirdly, my aunt didn't seem to notice how bad it was. It took my sister and I and a few hired helpers a week of solid work, 8 to 10 hours a day, to get it ready just for the auctioneer. I NEVER want to go through that again.

[ixion]

8. I am keeping a well-stocked pantry, and stocking up on essential supplies and tools

if that constitutes "compulsive hoarding" then I'm guilty as charged.

[BoWanZi]

9. I *could* be a hoarder but I don't think I"m a full blown one at this point

I definitely have hoarding tendencies. I collect a lot of things and when I collect them, I really like to have "backups" of them. I am not a garbage type of hoarder like you see on tv, I just like to have as much of my whatever as I can. For example, I collect video game stuff. I have LOTS of video game systems and backups of them because I feel that I have to have all the different variations of the game systems. I also just worry about not having spare parts if they break down. Its a weird feeling. If I let myself, I would have a LOT more game related stuff. I don't like junk though. My hoarding only really facilitates when its in regards to my hobbies.

I have a couple of R/C trucks. I have 3 of the same one plus enough spare parts to build 2 more but I keep them as spare parts for the main ones. I also hoard ammo and reloading supplies.

So I could be but I'm not like you see on tv, that is for sure.

[Duer 157099]

12. I'm that way too, especially with electronic parts

I watched a show the other night, "Sliced" where this (asshole) with an arsenal of saws cuts various items in half in order to examine how they work.

Doh! I suppose he never heard of a schematic or anything! He destroyed some vintage items, a pinball machine and an early slot machine. God I hate that kind of stupid destruction.

I've got several of my son's toy RC cars/trucks/etc because although they are broken, I know there are cool components. If I met somebody who knew what to do with them, I'd gladly give them away, but to just take them to the dump? No way.

[hunter]

44. I accumulate old computers...

:yoiks:

I'm writing posting this on one of 'em now. This laptop cost me $10, broken, but I had to have it. A bit of hot glue, drip irrigation line, duct tape, some memory from my junk box, install xubuntu and I'm good to go!

I also have a couple of boxes of old atari 800 stuff. I loved those things. I could do 6502 machine language in my head and I knew my way around the atari rom.

I figure so long as I'm not my grandma, keeping burnt out lightbulbs and stuff, I think I'm okay.

[BoWanZi]

45. OH boy, old computers too!!

Yup, I collect old computers too!!!

I don't collect anything MS-DOS based but i collect all the old 8bit stuff. I have TONS of Atari 8-bit stuff because that is what I started with back in 1980 or so. I love my Ataris. I have nothing really valuable but I have a bunch of 400-800-1200xl's and a few 600-800-1030xe-and so on. Tons of floppy drives and floppys and carts.

I also collect useful modern stuff like things that are pentium 4 or newer. I will build older computers for people that need something cheap and workable so i have a huge stash of modern components.

[jennygirl]

99. BoWanZi , You May Have What We in Psychology Call Instrumental Hoarding Tendencies

An instrumental hoarder, stocks up on multiples of things that they enjoy and believe would be of benefit to them in the future. It starts out like you say you might be doing. Ultimately, they end up with tons of these things all over the house.

[BoWanZi]

133. Yup, that is what ends up happening... question inside...

Does this end up becoming full blown hoarding if i am not careful?

But yes, that is what I do, I buy multiples of my hobbies for future use.

[Duer 157099]

10. I'm the organized hoarder type

Although I have (so far) not let things get as out of control as shown on those TV shows.

I will be listening to that show tonight (the downloaded version--I cannot stand the commercials!)

[ejpoeta]

35. what kind of commercials? let me guess... more crap you 'need' or organization stuff?

why get rid of anything when you can buy more space bags.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

11. There are 5 levels of hoarding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding

I have reason to know this, because of a relative. Thank goodness it didn't involve animals.

[ixion]

55. good info

according to those standards, I am not a compulsive hoarder. :woohoo:

[ZeitgeistObserver]

62. Liberating feeling is it?

:hi:

[pipi_k]

13. Other...I've known people who are compulsive hoarders who

lived in filth.

I'm also a bit of a hoarder myself, along with Mr Pip, although we are able, at some point, to let go of the junk.

The house is reasonably clean. The main problem is the barn/garage. We've been here 14 years, and until last summer, each year I'd hear the same old stuff....Mr Pip "really needs to clean out the barn". Only trouble there was, he never threw stuff out...he would just move it from one side of the barn to the other. Last year we got a dumpster and he cleaned out the loft of the barn, and filled the dumpster, which was in the yard for months.

He hoards tools and computer stuff.

I tend to hoard weird stuff. Like the time I had a whole bunch of turkey and chicken wishbones saved up for some unknown reason. I hoard pens and notebooks. I've also hoarded the gelatin capsules from the soy supplements I was taking. God only knows why. The more I saved up, the less able I was to throw them out, until one day I realized I was getting VERY strange about the whole thing. So I threw them out and wanted to dig them out of the trash again but didn't.

Oh, and I hoard yarn. I have five LARGE boxes of yarn out in the shed, and threw out a very large bag of little tiny balls of yarn (no bigger than a golf ball). Plus I have more in my closet. Which I suppose isn't all that strange, from what I read from people who knit/crochet.

Anyway, I'm on the fence about my level of tolerance. It's frustrating to see people saving/hoarding trash and garbage, although I do understand the emotional attachment to STUFF.

It's a rough thing to deal with...


PS....OK I'll admit it. It's very hard to deal with. We're trying to sell the house, and had to de-clutter. There are presently nearly 70 large boxes of crap we had to drag out of the house and store in the small shed next to the barn. It didn't hurt to do it because I know where it all is. I don't think I'd be able to throw most of it out, though, even though a lot of it we haven't used in 5...even 10 years or more.

sigh...hoarding sucks.

[Duer 157099]

15. I have an idea for your yarn

Get one of those shells for a beanbag chair, and fill it up with all of your yarn! Voila, you get to keep the yarn and get a comfy chair in the process!

(don't ask me how I know this)

[pipi_k]

22. Oh, good idea!!!

A few years ago I donated a bunch of it to a neighbor's daughter for some school project she was doing (I think they were learning how to knit).

It felt good...and I thought, wow...I'm so glad to get rid of that pile. Didn't even make a dent in my stash, unfortunately, and I only went out and bought more.

Most times actually using it for something kind of spoils the fun of having it and imagining the possibilities, which are somehow better than what I really do with it. Crazy, I know....

[TrogL]

102. Craftygal hoards yarn

We've got rooms full of it.

Earlier in the week she insisted that all my books (which I hoard) must be moved out of the back bedroom to give her a place for her knitting books and magazines (and more yarn). When it was all done (my books are safely in bins all nicely marked in the basement) she collapsed in tears when she realized she had no idea how to organize it.

So blew several hundred dollars on bins and nothing to show for it.

[pipi_k]

120. Oh my, I can empathize totally...

First, with you for having to move all your stuff out, then with Craftygal for having a spot but not knowing how to organize it.

How does one organize yarn...

by color?

fiber?

weight?

full or partial skeins?

It would seriously freak me out, too. That's why mine was all stuffed into boxes with no rhyme or reason.

[Crystal Clarity]

17. I don't understand it

(the hoarding thing) but hoarders may not understand my thing(s) either. I think most of us have something in our lives we may not be proud of and/or are at a loss to explain.

Thank you for sharing yours :hug: And you'll get through this...

[pipi_k]

23. What's odd is that sometimes even people who do understand their own things

don't understand a similar thing in someone else.

Like with my yarn...it's potentially useful. I can understand hoarding it.

But when I see someone hoarding, say...old tuna fish cans (I did see that one time) I'm like...eewwww....what's up with that?

For some reason, a person gets as emotionally attached to his empty tuna fish cans as I do to my yarns.

Humans is funny people...

:7

[Codeine]

30. A coworker recently cleared out her deceased father's home.

She found many, many years worth of plastic trays from microwave dinners all carefully rinsed and sorted filling all the cupboards and drawers in the kitchen, thousands of the things.

[pipi_k]

37. Uh, oh....

I have some of those too.

My favorites are the Healthy Choice Cafe Steamers two-part plastic bowls. Only the bottom part though....the other part is like a strainer with holes in it. Not much good.


:7

[KittyWampus]

58. Pipi- about that yarn, can you put some out on the lawn for the birds to nest with?

Or crochet hats for premature babies?

[pipi_k]

65. Yep, I've done that too...

Cotton...acrylic for bird nests. I also put dryer lint out for the birds (and mice and squirrels).


And I've also made hats and sweaters and little burial gowns and Angel Blankets for the NICU of a local hospital. In fact, I have a box full of items I need to send off soon. I can't just sit and watch TV, so knitting and crocheting small items like that is a good way to keep my hands busy while watching TV and do something worthwhile. :)

[KittyWampus]

71. Never thought of the dryer lint for nesting creatures. Great idea. And I tend to "listen" to tv

while doing handwork rather than idly watching.

[pipi_k]

98. If you have pets, the wild critters are also fond of their fur

We have a little dog "condo" attached to the side of the house which leads, via a doggy door, to the fenced yard. This time of year, and throughout the summer, I like to watch the birds come up into it to pick dog fur out of it to bring to their nests.

:)

[NV Whino]

14. A friend's husband hoards newspapers

He is computer and Internet illiterate and is afraid he is going to miss an important piece of news. I also had a couple of dates with a guy who hoarded power tools. There was a narrow path from his door, to the couch, to the kitchen. Closets were full, and one side of his bed was loaded with unopened boxes of tools.At the time I didn't know this was a disease. I just thought it was a little weird.

[Art_from_Ark]

130. Was that guy you dated

named "Tim the Toolman", by any chance?

[malaise]

16. Are you watching the show on Discovery on Sunday nights?

Fascinating - very depressing. I had no idea it was that serious and we had some interesting comments on a thread one night.
I don't know any hoarders.

[pipi_k]

24. I've been watching that....alternately

I get frustrated with, and feel sorry for, the people.

[Codeine]

28. It can be frustrating.

I want to just scream at those people to get it together, but then I feel bad about that.

Realistically I should probably avoid that show. ;)

[Maru Kitteh]

131. You probably do know at least one hoarder, you just don't realize it.

I knew a lady for more than 15 years, she was a close family friend and we didn't find out she was a hoarder until she rented an apartment from me and a water line broke in her kitchen.

It was BAD.

[bluedeminredstate]

18. My good friend's husband hoards

He would say he is a pack rat, but to my eye he's a hoarder. It drives my friend crazy because he refuses to throw anything out in case he needs it later, and he is constantly "rescuing" things that other people throw away. He has every National Geographic from the mid-seventies until now which occupy an entire wall in their bedroom. He has a weird collection of Mrs. Butterworth's syrup bottles that he built shelves for around the kitchen so he can display them. Mind you, we're not talking antiques here, we're talking about a bottle you would buy in the supermarket and then discard in your recycle bin when it's finished. Their basement has probably 30+ broken and unusable bikes that he keeps for "parts" in case the bike he might possibly own sometime in the future ever needs to be fixed.
When the city of Richmond was discarding some large playground equipment that was rusted, worn, and just plain unappealing, he somehow convinced the city workmen to drop off several huge pieces in his backyard. BTW, his children are too old for the equipment, but he couldn't stand to see it go to waste. Now you can hardly move in the back yard because of the size of that junk, not to mention that it is an eyesore - one of the reasons the city was replacing it.

Those things I've listed don't even begin to scratch the surface of the junk that occupies most of the space in their home. My friend has just given in and surrendered to the chaos, but I know she wishes her house was free of all the stuff. She has given up begging him to get a handle on the amount of junk in the house because it doesn't change anything - he is unwilling to part with anything once he acquires it.

I don't go over there very often - we meet for lunch at a restaurant or we hang out at my house. I just hate being in the house - there is no place to sit because of the crap that covers the furniture and I feel claustraphobic after about two minutes. I am so grateful that my husband and I are on the same page in regard to how much disorder and clutter we can put up with, which is not much at all. I know hoarding is not really a question of organization and housekeeping standards, but it's so unfair to the people who live with hoarders that they have to deal with the result of their compulsion.

[Maru Kitteh]

132. I'd have to divorce him. I couldn't take someone who insisted I live that way.

Instead of getting the help they need.

[Duer 157099]

19. Uh oh, this one hits really close to home:

Digital hoarding

Digital hoarding involves collecting files on one's computer beyond the point of usefulness. Often, files can be acquired through the Internet at no monetary cost, leading to extraordinarily large collections. Examples are music collections, often beyond what one enjoys or can listen to and television shows, movies and computer games. Hoarders, or "digital pack rats",<11> often resort to buying optical media or new hard drives<12> to store their collections, rather than deleting what they may never use.

Digital hoarders find it just as difficult to press delete as traditional hoarders find throwing items in the trash can. They have the same feeling of clutter and chaos, and feel that they might find the item useful "someday," and similarly spend large amounts of time acquiring and organizing their collections.<13> However, unlike physical clutter, automated systems exist to organize digital clutter. Scientific American remarked that humanity's propensity<14> for data collection is growing at a rate faster than their ability to store it.<15>

Digital hoarding is not a currently recognized subtype of compulsive hoarding by the DSM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding

[Codeine]

29. That seems a bit silly.

Unless someone has three hundred hard drives filling their house that's not really an issue, is it? :shrug:

[Initech]

50. I guess I could fall on that category.

I have a pretty extensive CD/DVD collection and the 500GB hard drive on my laptop is nearly half full. :yoiks:

[Blue_In_AK]

81. I save all my digital photos

unless they're just really, really bad, like totally out of focus or something. I know I'll probably never look at them again, but it's really hard to hit that delete button. They're all on DVDs.

[conspirator]

95. I am a compulsive porn hoarder. Does that count? nt

[Odin2005]

21. I hoard books and magazines

My closet has many boxes full of old magazines I cannot make myself throw away.

[raouldukelives]

25. A friend has a terrible money hoarding problem

He's always trying to keep as much as possible and figuring out ways to make more. He is consumed!

[Codeine]

27. I fight a hoarding tendency myself.

I have to be careful about books, magazines, and anything game-related (board games and miniature wargames, not computer games.) I figure if I purge regularly and limit myself to books I'll be ok, and I make sure to maintain an absolutely spotless apartment so as not to fall into the trap of those poor people on A&E.

[PSzymeczek]

31. My sister, now deceased, was a hoarder.

I hated going to her house, and flatly refused to go into the basement.

[femmocrat]

32. My grandfather probably was a hoarder (although we didn't know it then).

He had a little wooden storage shack in the back yard filled with junk that he would haul from the dump. My grandmother was the opposite. She threw everything away.

I have way too much "stuff" but don't consider myself a hoarder. I really have waaaay too many clothes. I can't seem to get rid of them as fast as I buy new ones. I never got involved with collecting anything because I didn't want to become obsessed with it.

[Odin2005]

72. back in your Grandpa's day "hoarding" was probably a reasonable survival strategy.

I bet a lot of people who survived the Depression were hoarders. The only difference is that today there is a lot more junk one can hoard.

[hyphenate]

33. I don't look at myself as a compulsive hoarder

So much as a very disorganized person. If I could get myself into a pattern or habit of behavior, I could conceivably be a lot neater. If I can't find something, I buy a new one. I've gotten weaker through the past few years, so trying to organize and clean are more difficult to do. I can't work for more than 1/2 hour at a time as my strength flags and my muscles give out. So things do get piled up and the ability to find something gets worse.

I do have a few collections which seem like clutter--one is my books, and another is my tape library. The tape library will likely go bye-bye, though, because I'm gradually replacing most of those with DVDs, which tend to be a lot more compact.

[Mari333]

34. my dogs. they hoard bones.

[ejpoeta]

36. my sister's house is really bad. it's been building up for years.

they can't find something so go out and buy another one. have stuff sitting still in the box. no one goes over there anymore. when i do, i feel like i can't breathe!! then i feel the need to come home and clean my house. we have tried to help them many times. my brother in law refuses to part with things... old magazines.... it doesn't matter. His idea of cleaning is to move stuff from one place to another. it's sad really.

we don't have an emotional attachment to much ourselves.... a fire that wiped us out of everything we may have been attached to a few years ago took care of that. but i fear it. i see things building up and i go through with a garbage bag and do a clean sweep. i am always having the kids go through and weed out toys. i have a tough time if i can't walk through a room. it's tough right now because i have a six month old and so i have a tough time keeping up. it is driving me CRAZY!!!

[pansypoo53219]

38. hoarding runs in my family, but not horribly obsessively.

i am a collector, but omnivorous object keeper. but i am getting picky. andandand ebaying stuff.

[Missy Vixen]

39. One of my friends is a hoarder

She's currently in therapy to address it. I am so proud of her.

My husband used to laugh at me over the well-stocked pantry. We lost our power for a week in December of '07; he's not laughing any more. That pantry fed both of us, not only during the power outage and aftermath of the hurricane -- oops, windstorm -- but during the long layoff last year.

[Dappleganger]

40. My father is a hoarder.

When Mom was still alive she kept it in check but now that she's gone he's completely out of control. He buys things from the thrift stores, yard sales, pawn shops, craigslist and fleabay but never sells anything. We have tried everything to get him to stop but to no avail. He has bipolar disorder along with beginning stages of ALZ which is of no help.

When he finally gets out of his house we will probably have to hire a company to come in and take it all out. I swore I wouldn't touch that place, it's so disgusting.

[madokie]

41. others junk is sometimes my supplies

I throw junk and trash away only

[Manifestor_of_Light]

42. Mom and Grandmom were horrible.

I couldn't clean out the house until Mom died. She got very nasty and cursed at me and even dissociated into another personality when I tried to throw stuff away. There was a bedroom that was 10 by 20 feet and five feet deep in junk. An auctioneer came by and filled up a 40 foot gooseneck trailer with furniture and 60 banker boxes full of knick knacks and stuff that I did not need, and sold it.

I recommend Don Aslett's books on clutter very much.

In fact, he has a book of letters from readers about dealing with it, and I happen to be quoted in it, which makes me a published author:

Clutter Free! Finally and Forever
http://www.amazon.com/Don-Asletts-Clutter-Free-Finally-Forever/dp/0937750123/ref=pd_sim_b_5

[Odin2005]

73. Surviving an economiv depression does that to a person.

In her mind you were and idiot because when she was young "hoarding" was a part of survival.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

106. Her family was affluent in the Depression actually.

Her parents were County Extension Agents that worked for the A&M College. Her father was killed in a wreck when she was about 14.

Her mother had to go to work after that, as an Extension Agent. She had a Master's Degree (pretty rare for a woman born int he 1890s).

My mom would whine about how poor they were. But then she said they had a cook and a washwoman (apparently white people).

I guess the servants were poor too. :sarcasm:

She said "Mom only took home $250 a month from the State, we didn't have a lot, we were poor but didn't know it".

My dad was grown during the Depression, so I asked him, "How much money did you have to make to be affluent, say middle class, and buy stuff?".

He said "If you made $100 a month, you could buy anything in the store. A bag of groceries was a dollar or two".

So Grandma made 2-1/2 times what Dad said was plenty to be affluent, and Mom gripes about how poor they were, but they had a cook and a washwoman, and her Mom built a new house in the Depression with the insurance money after she was widowed??????

:wtf:

Mom also got to go to college for four years in the late 30s, and early 40s at state schools, and her younger sister also went to college and became a schoolteacher.

[Odin2005]

108. That's wacked!

Sounds like your mom had some underlying issues, there. :wtf:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

126. Yeah I have not figured em out and I probably never will.

Mom was a Princess. Thought she was supposed to be waited on. And didn't appreciate what she had -- like a loving husband and two loving daughters.

My sister and I never robbed a bank, or shot up drugs, or sold drugs, or drove drunk, or got arrested. No misdemeanors, no felonies, just a traffic ticket occasionally. We both got through four years of college and were gainfully employed.

But you would have thought we were horrible kids. And she'd whip out a picture of the dog and say "This is my beautiful, smart, OBEDIENT daughter" like it was funny.....

I had the Smothers Brothers beat. :wtf:

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. My shit is stuff. Everyone else's stuff is shit.

I have a lifetime's accumulation of stuff. The challenge is finding it.

[WCIL]

47. My parents and my mother in law

My mother in law could be featured on a television show. She has a clear chair to sit on in her living room and can sleep on half of her bed, but otherwise it is wall to wall junk. She entombs food in her refrigerator, can't use the shower, and still has laundry on her fold table from when her youngest were 6 (they are now in their 40's). She is the classic case. My husband says she has been this was since the mid 1960's, and growing up there was a nightmare. She is having dementia issues now and needs to go into assisted living, but won't leave her junk.

My parents would never believe they are hoarders, because their stuff is so well organized. My mother keeps the cleanest home of any I have ever been in, but they have an astronomical amount of stuff. They are slaves to the "good deal". They bought dog toys (even though our last dog was in 1976) because they were on clearance and were only 4cents each. Once an item goes into their home, it never leaves. I have offered many times to take the dog toys, or the #10 cans of ravioli, or the 6 packages of underwear that are too small for my dad to ever wear to someone who could really use them, but they won't part anything. They just keep buying more pegboard and more storage shelving and stocking up. They get some sort of security out of having so much, and count their imaginary savings on a regular basis.

[TrogL]

48. I hoard books, bookmarks (real and virtual), clothes that will never fit

[DeschutesRiver]

109. I not only hoard virtual bookmarks, but the only way I can get rid of the excess

is to wait until my computer dies, and the bookmarks along with it. I do clean them up very rarely, but have a hard time deleting them when I do.

[Initech]

49. Quite the opposite, most people I know are obsessive neat freaks.

[tavalon]

51. My grandmother was a hoarder and I've been an obsessive non hoarder

I lived a life upon which moss rarely grew and then I settled down and I fear that gene may also be in me. But I battle it and so far, I think I'm winning.

[BlooInBloo]

52. I'm compulsively too lazy to throw shit away. Does that count?

[Shallah Kali]

53. I know several hoarders and have hoarding features myself

One is in as nearly bad shape as the ones on the A&E or TLC hoarding shows, others are neater and organized and none admit they are hoarders nor are willing to seek treatment :( I am related to a few of them which makes me wonder if the tenancy is at least in part genetic. I am in therapy for several things one of which is my tendency to hoard. I still get the urge and it's hard to let go of things but it's getting less hard and I am getting to towards the end of stuff I need to go through to donate, recycle or trash. I am allowing myself to keep some extras beyond the absolute necessities of life like a few souvenir t-shirts and books. I watch the shows to help me work through the emotions as practice letting go of stuff.

I mostly want to hoard useful things but want a few useless things like price tags off clothing and store receipts that make me go what the heck am I thinking???

A&E http://www.aetv.com/hoarders/index.jsp

TLC http://tlc.discovery.com/tv/hoarding-buried-alive/

How Hoarding Shows Cured My Hoarding -- The tragic spectacle of mountains of junk made me finally throw out a decade's worth of old stuff (salon.com)
http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/hoarding/index.html?story=/ent/tv/heather_havrilesky/2010/04/10/am_i_a_hoarder

The danger of hoarding - Within the past six years, about 10 municipalities have formed task forces so that public services can collaborate in cleaning up the property and helping the hoarder.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-02-18-hoarding-usat_x.htm

[Raine]

54. Yes, someone in my home

and it's hell to live with. :-(

[Ysabel]

56. my father (i know others as well)...

my dad has become much worse since my mom died i (am) and my brothers (are) very concerned we've got to figure out something to do about it before his life completely falls apart...

- so far we are at a loss as to what to do...

[pipi_k]

57. Oh, and I didn't even realize that digital images could be a problem, but

now that I think of it, I have a stepdaughter who loves taking photos. The biggest problem is that she stores them all on her computer.

All 7000+ images.

Which in itself is a problem, but what's frustrating to the family (and anyone else she shows her albums to) is that she will take the same photos over and over again and instead of picking out 15 or 20 good ones, she will post albums containing hundreds and hundreds of photos. Most of them are the same scene taken from a slightly different angle.

And a LOT of them are of the hold-the-camera-in-front-of-the-smiling-couple's-faces variety, over and over, just in different spots. We've joked among ourselves that over the years we can just take one from each year and put them all together in one of those "flip the page" books and see them progressively age.

Anyway, how do you tell someone you don't want to see 45 of the same damned picture without hurting their feelings?

sigh...

[KittyWampus]

59. I am a magpie who collects shiny things, ephemera, feathers, beach glass etc

However, I do collage art so it all will either eventually get used in some project or traded away with someone else for THEIR shiny objects :)

[pipi_k]

60. Ooooh....shiny objects!

Are you as easily amused by them as I am?

I can literally sit and stare at them for hours.

Give me something like the Centenary Diamond and I might be enthralled for days at a time... ;)

[KittyWampus]

70. Yes, I pick up shiny bits and pieces to play with them and evenually glue them onto some paper

or canvas.

I can and do play with stuff for hours like that.

[Odin2005]

75. LOL, that's me, it's probably one of my autistic stim behaviors!

I love shiny things! :D

[Odin2005]

74. You too?

i have my collection of pretty rocks and fossils stashed away somewhere!

"OOH, SHINY" :rofl:

[Retrograde]

92. that's my excuse, too

I really intend to use all that stuff one of these days. I've now imposed a new house rule, which I call the Law of Equivalent Exchange: if something comes into the house, something equivalent has to go out. So for every new book I buy one has to be donated to the library book sale.

[TwilightGardener]

61. A particular relative of mine has to create "tunnels" through his house.

Crap piled up on either side, no other floor space.

[slackmaster]

63. Yes, the mother of a good friend of mine is a compulsive shopper and hoards clothing

Specifically dresses that are many sizes too small for her to wear.

She bought several commercial clothes racks from a retailer that went out of business. She lives in a 4-bedroom house. Three of the bedrooms are used exclusively for storing clothing. She must have close to 10,000 dresses.

[DiverDave]

67. People who lived through the depression

do it.
My granddad and grandma had cans and newspapers stacked to the cealing when they were alive.
It's a wonder the house didnt burn down.

[wolfgangmo]

68. What is a horder?

To me what distinguishes my father from my late mother is this. She used what she "hoarded" which makes her the opposite of a hoarder. My father collects stuff at garage sales, the road side, garbage cans, construction sites, etc. with the expressed statement "it could come in handy ... someday." The key word here is someday. And someday never comes.

My mom had a ton of fabric in her sewing room but she used most of it and the reason that she had so much was that she bought it in quantity when it was on sale or clearance and had clear projects for it. Sure she had a ton of fabrics, but she also used a ton of fabric making clothes,, quilts, etc for people.

Except for my dad who was born and raised in the last depression (1930's), there are not a lot of hoarders in the family. I wonder just how many hoarders are from generations where they had experienced a lack of material things growing up. I don't know many boomers who hoard but a friend of mine who is gen X does hoard - he had trouble finding any meaningful work after school and has lived under heavy debt most of his life. He keeps stuff.

Interesting topic..

[Odin2005]

76. I expect a lot of Gen-Xers and us Millennials to be hoarders when this current depression is over.

[Blue_In_AK]

79. My aunt became a compulsive hoarder in her old age

as Alzheimer's was setting in. Very sad, too, because she had been so vibrant and involved.

My youngest daughter seemed to be a bit OCD about her possessions when she was a teenager, but she's gotten better as she's gotten older and away from home. (That's not to say that we still don't have boxes and boxes of Barbie dolls and books stashed under the house waiting for her okay to get rid of them.)

[Pharlo]

82. I'm a semi-recovered hoarder

My grandmother (an adult during The Depression) was a hoarder.

My mother, having been a military spouse and subjected to frequent moves at the last minute, kept only essentials - and a bare minimum at that. She was constantly throwing things out. I can still hear the "If you don't need it, do NOT unpack it! We won't be here that long" speech.

I know I'm a natural hoarder, but, in my own defense it's not because I like having all the junk around, the thing is, I KNOW that if I throw something I haven't used in the past ten years out today, I will NEED it next week. This, I KNOW! Conversely, if I haven't used it in ten years, even if I know I still have it, I KNOW I won't be able to find it next week when I need it. But, in six months, I'll find that item again - once the need for it has passed.

It is the knowledge that, even if I have something and know I have it, I won't be able to find it anyhow that allows me to throw it out. Because, I have two choices: spend two days looking for something I know I have, not be able to find it, and then have to go purchase a replacement; or just go get a damned replacement immediately and save myself two days of useless searching.

So, while tossing things is against my basic nature, I have - over the years - come to the conclusion that it is better to suck it up and toss some stuff rather than keep it indefinitely and never be able to locate when I want/need it. UNLESS, I can justify keeping the item. (Such as a seasonal item like gloves; I may not need them when I can find them in June, but if I can remember where I put them, I'll be able to use them again next winter. Or, the winter after that, or the winter after that, or whenever I stumble across them during inclement weather because eventually, that might happen. )

[Karenina]

91. From my mom:

Not being able to find it
is the same as not having it.

[Skittles]

135. OMG

I heard that often too, growing up as a military brat:

"If you don't need it, do NOT unpack it! We won't be here that long"

[Cairycat]

83. My MIL has been hoarding for about 50 years

Seriously - started when my husband was small and he's in his early 50s now. By the time he was in high school, it was already to the small paths for getting around, crap on every surface stage. Once my husband moved out it was to the goat paths stage - climb over mountains to get around. Fourteen years ago she moved and her new place was to the goat path stage within months. Her car is the same way. It is going to be a huge nightmare to clean up when she goes, and my husband is an only child, so it's up to us. MIL is 79 and going strong so we probably won't be too young ourselves when that happens.

My husband tends the same way - he has one room that's exclusively for his books (although there are bookcases in other rooms as well) and we keep way too much stuff. I do go through and purge, but it's hard to unless you have a dedicated block of time.

It's easy to drive everyone crazy, blaming the hoarder for laziness, (though that does play a part), and once you realize the role that indecisiveness and struggling to avoid imperfect decisions about what to keep play, it's a little easier to live with.

My dad grew up during the Depression and kept a lot of plastic and paper sacks, styrofoam trays, used foil and such. When he went into the nursing home, it was a chore to clean out his house, but it wasn't the dumpsterfuls that it will be when my MIL dies.

[pinto]

84. I used to keep every empty coffee can, 'cause they'd be "useful" for something, sometime.

Finally recycled them all...

Not really compulsive about it, but I had *a lot* of empty coffee cans.

:hide:

[tilsammans]

85. Um, does it count if said hoarder is yourself?

:hide:

I'm not as bad as the hoarders you see on the news, whose homes collapse under the weight of their stuff.

But I still have way too much. Even though I'm working hard on purging it, I swear it's multiplying.

[rustydog]

87. A co-worker is a hoarder

I investigated a vehicle I noticed in our parking structure for several weeks that had items packed from the rear of the vehicle almost to the roof of the passenger seat.

The license check came back to an employee. Observations of the vehicle showed some foodstuffs disappeared while others stayed rotting in the vehicle.

we involved risk management who advised the employee's neighbors had contacted work to complain of the persons garbage around the house, etc.

I do not understand this phenomenon, but watching the hoarders show on cable tells me this is a legitimite issue for these people, they are not just "Slobs."

[Liberal_in_LA]

94. I see rolling junkpiles from time to time, mostly vans full of crap

I use to think "why don't they clean that crap out'. now I Realize it's probably mental

[jennygirl]

101. No, They Need a Professional Organizer & Therapy

Most benefit from having a professional organizer to show them how to store or throw out useless items along with a combination of psychotherapy called cognitive-behavioral therapy by a trained therapist. I have done this kind of therapy with this type of client over the years. It can be very frustrating in that some will not give up their hoarding and you have to let them go. Others may end up homeless because landlords fear their properties being overrun by pests like roaches and rats. Another thing I noticed is that they hoarded stray cats-- maybe to control the pest population as well as for companionship.

[Sheltiemama]

105. How fascinating!

I watch both hoarding shows, "Hoarders" and "Hoarding," and watching the therapists work with the subjects is fascinating. More than once, the shows have featured subjects who had dead cats in their houses! It just made me want to cry. They thought they were saving them, but the poor things apparently got trapped in the mess and died. We had a case in my city just last week of a woman who was hoarding around 70 dogs in her house. The house had dog feces up to a foot deep! As soon as she was charged, the house was condemned. Sadly, several dozen had to be put to sleep. The head of the animal shelter said that the rest, though, were different dogs by the next morning. They were clean and had food and attention, and they're up for adoption.

[Froward69]

89. myself

I have a difficult time tossing anything away if i feel i can fix it. If I can't I do throw it away.

paper no problem I recycle as much as I can.
I hate cleaning (as thats all i do to turn over apartments) so my house is dusty, dirty, could use a good sweeping/moping.

[CrispyQ]

90. About 10 years ago I de-cluttered my basement.

But, I still had a storage unit. Three years later my husband & I tackled that & got rid of most of the stuff in it. When my mom died, I ended up with more stuff. I kept it for about a year & then got rid of the stuff I didn't want. It is a liberating feeling to get rid of stuff that you never use. It is even nicer to see spaciousness instead of clutter.

My mother was on the verge of being a hoarder. If she had lived longer, I'm sure her place would have been similar to the TV shows. I can't imagine why one would keep some of the stuff she had. A few years before she died, she was at my house & said, "You have the most clutter free place I've ever seen." "Thank you!" I replied. "Well I'm not sure it's a good thing," she said. :rofl:

[Liberal_in_LA]

93. I know of folks who hoard once removed - relatives of friends

[AnArmyVeteran]

96. A great deal of insecurity surrounds hoarding...

I have a friend who is a compulsive hoarder. She has stuff all around her house. At one time you could barely walk through because things were stacked almost to the ceiling. And she keeps buying more stuff.

I watched a Tonight Show last year and Jeff Goldblum was a guest. Leno tried to give him a piece of paper with something on it and Jeff refused it. He went on to say he was a minimalist and didn't accumulate anything. Since that night it made me think of all the things we take into our lives. I stopped taking receipts for things unless I might have to return the item. I've also been seriously purging all of the things I don't need or haven't used in a long time.

If left unchecked we can easily become owned by our property, instead of the other way around. Things are supposed to bring us joy, happiness or make our lives easier. If it doesn't we need to let it go and get rid of it. If people are not careful they can easily become a prisoner to their property.

[pipi_k]

100. I don't have a problem with receipts so much, but it's...

the manuals which need to be kept, and then there's the fear that the item might break or something and need to be returned "in the original package" as it often says in the manual.

WTF????

So now it's not enough to keep the receipt...we also have to keep every single box in case we need to send it back?

holy shit...worst thing to tell a hoarder...even a borderline one!

[AnArmyVeteran]

110. Hey Pipi.k, here's a tip for you...

If you buy something and it stops working and you don't have a receipt all you have to do is buy another new one. Once you have the new one and its receipt you can put the non-working item back in the box and return it with the new receipt. It's a way around the 'not having a receipt' problem. And there isn't anything unethical about it. It is just getting your warranty honored on your terms, not theirs.

Of course, the only downside is manufacturers constantly change the cosmetics of products to prevent you from returning some items. Years ago items would remain identical for years. But now they change every few months. The new products are improvements usually, they are just cosmetic changes to try to reduce returns. But I can usually stay ahead of all their games with 'creativity'.

All the best...

[pipi_k]

115. Never thought of that....

if they don't make any changes, then it would probably work very well.

Thanks for the tip

:)

[troubledamerican]

97. Hoarding of News & Information...

[Mike 03]

103. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your contributions to this

discussion. I have one sibling who is a classic hoarder (hoards just about everything, especially shoes), another first degree relative who is a borderline hoarder, and for the past few years I have been hoarding canned goods and bottled water.

[Festivito]

104. Brother and sister, one with house paths, sister with 6 cats.

Brother with one cat, once jilted badly, brilliant, incredibly good retention, excellent record keeping. No real problems to cook, sleep and excrete. But, a walk inside requires some side to side avoidances in all parts of the house. Knows where everything is. This topic discussed about a year ago -- accepted.

Sister with six cats and a spotless perfectly appointed house, flawless record keeping, no smell, now widowed. Just can resist saving cats from euthanasia and everyone knows she's an easy mark, though she does now turn down extra offers.

Myself: I collect too much, but mostly I don't get things cleaned up because I spend too much time on DU.

[Arugula Latte]

128. Personally, I don't think six cats is excessive.

I grew up with that number or more at all times ... It seems normal to me. I only have three now, though.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

107. The people on TV at least realize they have a problem.

My mother had NO IDEA she had a problem. She did not have a problem with it, her family did. Her junk was more important than her family. More important than her husband, her only child (me), and her only grandchild (my daughter).

Grandma spent two years in a nursing home and when they cleaned out her room when she died, they found 287 clean washrags in her bureau drawer. She was going to be clean.

I cleaned out a shower stall that was used as a closet, after Mom died (Grandma and Mom both lived in this house previously). I found 132 purses and took them to Goodwill. I went through her old patterns and material and sewing stuff. After I threw out the stained and rotten stuff, I had 40 banker boxes of usable stuff I took to a thrift store in Houston.

And as I said above, Mom and Grandma were NOT poor when they were in the depression. We took mom to a shrink for an intervention and it did nothing. He had to yell at her to not interrupt him and he told her she would never live long enough to sort it all out. Which she did not.

My dad had the patience of a saint. He threw her out of their bedroom back in the 1970s, when I was in high school, because of her creeping junk. She had a spot on the bed in my former room where she slept, and it was piled up with junk all around.

I have no idea how long it's taken me to clean out since she died nearly 9 yrs ago, or how many cubic feet of stuff I've given away/thrown away/left at the curb.

I had no idea that mom had multiple personalities when she dissociated from the stress of somebody throwing out trash.

[Cassandra]

113. I have too much stuff.

I have been hoarding food (just went through my fridge a couple of days ago and threw out a large bagful). I have food (in jars and packages) on my table and papers piled on other surfaces. I collect dishes (more than I need or will need, to be honest)although at least those are useful. There was an article in the NYTimes a few years ago where a dish collector talked about his collection (larger than mine). He said he was collecting for use in a life he aspired to but didn't actually have. That hit home pretty well. It's hard to give a dinner party or even invite someone over when my place is a mess. I always think I have something more interesting to do other than clean.
My parents and grandmother hoarded (not junk but more dresses and paperwork than they needed) but they had much more space, so it looked neat. They preferred to throw out my stuff.

[Jennicut]

114. Yes, me! Actually, I am more messy then hoarding. I would gladly throw out all

my junk, I just need someone to help me with it.

[tomm2thumbs]

118. this poll is directed at me, isn't it? Is this another intervention?!!! Not again!!!

(grin)

[pipi_k]

122. Well, as the saying goes...if the 625 pairs of shoes fit....

:7

[slampoet]

121. My Dog came from a hoarders house. The woman had 36+ dogs living in a double-wide. My pug was one.

[Mike 03]

123. Kick. In the 8 years I have been here, this is probably the thread that has meant the most to me.

Thank you for these shares. They truly help put things into perspective.

[BoWanZi]

134. Same here even though I haven't been here long

Very fascinating thread.

[noamnety]

124. I have two inlaws who are hoarders.

One is definitely at the level of the tv shows, the other is darn close (basement paths, for instance). Both have broken their ankles recently trying to dodge junk in their house. A coworker's wife also recently spent time on crutches for the same reason.

I have some tendencies, the husband keeps me in check though. Like others who mentioned previous food insecurity, I overbuy food. I've been looking at everything I canned last summer from my garden and now I have to plan how I can eat my way through it before the next crop comes in.

When I went to my sil's house and saw how she was living, the husband referred to it as my scared straight program. That and the tv shows really were good for me. I found a stash of colored sugar from christmas cookie decorating when my daughter was a young teen. She's 23 now and lives in another state. I wasn't willing to throw it out - it isn't like sugar spoils. But I started using it up in my regular baking even though it's resulted in some oddly colored desserts just to get rid of it.

Over the summer when I get a break from work my plan is to put some of the unused stuff up for free on craigslist. I know I will never have a yardsale or organize a bunch of stuff at once, but I can put all my cookie cutters up one day, and a day or two later another item or two ... throughout the summer. That's what I'd recommend for people living with hoarders who talk about saving things for a yard sale - just stick a price on it and post it on CL instead of waiting for a day that never comes.

[Shallah Kali]

125. Salon.com: "Stuff": The psychology of hoarding

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010/04/25/hoarding_interview_stuff



A lot of the cases you describe in the book are quite extreme -- people who lose spouses or go bankrupt because of their hoarding problem. What causes them to let possessions take over their lives?

One is a sense of intense responsibility for objects and an unwillingness to waste them. Another is this sense of objects as opportunities. One of the hoarders in the book compares her hoarding to a "river of possibilities," because each object is a world of possibility for her. And then there's the emotional or magical quality that possessions have. They connect people to the world. For that particular hoarder, her possessions connected her to the world around her and without them she felt she would somehow lose that. They were also a part of her identity; if she got rid of them she would lose a piece of herself.

And then there's an aesthetic quality to the hoarding. Another hoarder we wrote about in the book created piles from stuff that she’d collected, and at some point, this pile became a work of art. When most of us look at an object like a bottle cap, we think, "This is useless," but a hoarder sees the shape and the color and the texture and the form. All these details give it value. Hoarding may not be a deficiency at all -- it may be a special gift or a special ability. The problem is being able to control it.

snip

Do you think these shows are exploitative?

If you spend one weekend with someone with a camera crew, a cleaning crew and no therapy, you’re making some educational contribution by showing people what hoarding is -- and that it’s really an illness -- but it gives the impression that what you should do with someone who has this type of problem is bring in a cleaning crew and start pressuring them. But if you do that when the person isn't ready, the home will be back to its original state, or even worse, in short order.

You can’t change this behavior in TV time; it’s a long-term process. But that's not as dramatic as when you’ve got a burly cleaning crew throwing out someone’s prized collection of 10-year-old newspapers. In our treatment, we start with having somebody throw out a single item, and the purpose of the treatment is not to clear the clutter, the purpose is to change the behavior and to change the nature of these people's attachments to possessions. Once those things change, then the clutter will be easier to deal with.

[otohara]

127. My Sister Was Hording Cats

she passed away a couple years ago. I stumbled across the story on the web because of a nationwide database of "animal abusers" They took 20 cats from her filthy apt. Her and my nephew were living in deplorable conditions. - the cats were malnourished and sick. The small apt was stuffed with junk.

The sentence was pretty tough for both of them - no more than one cat, fines and 200 hours of community service, and forever on a database of animal abusers.

I was horrified and embarrassed - We were not close, she lived in another state - I had no idea.

[Mike 03]

136. A Passionate "Thanks" for Your Robust Response.

And it is good to see others appreciate your input on this topic as well.

Thank you all.