I live in Arizona. Cross post to my not so liberal friends.

[goldcanyonaz]

I understand the frustration of many but my worry is how are they supposed to enforce this new law? Will they be going up to everyone who appears to be of Hispanic decent be asked for their certificate of citizenship or will it be random?

If one isn't from Arizona they might not understand that a great many here are Hispanic and they are here legally and work very hard to provide for their families. Of course there are those who are not here legally but who is who and how does one differ between the two?

I know many police officers and sheriffs are very uncomfortable with this new law and are not looking forward to enforcing it.

I must add this and some might not care for it but we have had many incidents of rape, murder and deaths caused by drunk drivers who are here illegally. Those stories have been of great focus for the 3 plus years I have been here.

The borders are huge so for those saying that the border patrol isn't doing their jobs it's really not the case because the job is huge and there are not enough officers for these jobs and I don't believe the states have the budgets to hire extra officers since both California and Arizona and in dire straights in regards to spending.

I don't know what the answer is but I'm not comfortable with the new law if they're just going to be pulling anyone who looks a certain way over without cause unless the cause is that they look Hispanic. Many Indians are confused for Hispanics and vice-versa and it's caused quite a few problems in the past.

I'm thankful that I'm not in Phoenix or any of the surrounding areas such as Mesa, Apache Junction, Chandler, etc because people have gone from being scared to very angry.

I'm ready to fight this, are you?

[tavalon]

1. I never really believed any state could out Texas, Texas

but yours has jumped that shark.

[goldcanyonaz]

2. This is the one time I'm happy that I'm as black as black can be.

[sfwriter]

4. That really hasn't helped Obama...

Just sayin...

Maybe the Apache and Navajo will kick everyone out?

[KonaKane]

8. Ya'a'te!

Pretty good, for a Bilagaana!

[mzteris]

6. I know a lot of "black" hispanics

from central america...

though I guess the racists in Arizona will be targeting "Mexican hispanics", eh?

I thought about bringing my very black african american son who is fluent in spanish just to f' with their heads. Except he's only 11 and I'd hate to have to hurt anyone who messed with him.

[Bobbieo]

10. Wow! tavalon! Now that was clever.

[tavalon]

12. I'm an ex-Texan

I know of which I speak.

[Greyhound]

23. We just got so sick of Texas and Florida grabbing all the glory.

We finally beat out Missouri for worst education in the nation as well.

This Is Our Year!:woohoo:
:rofl:

[Tansy_Gold]

24. Missouri?? or do you mean Mississippi? n/t

[Greyhound]

27. Could be, I don't remember which it was, now that you mention it.

But whichever it was, "WE"RE EVEN WORSE, WE"RE EVEN WORSE"!

And the hillbillies we have "running" this state have decreed that as little as we spend is still too much.

*sniff* I'm so proud...

[tavalon]

25. Revel in it!

Then, move. I grew up in Florida and then moved to Texas where I got stuck for damn near 20 years. I'm enjoying living out the rest of my life in the liberal part of a beautiful state.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

3. and what will the Hispanic cops do?

or will they get profiled too?

I'll be glad when the country is more tan in overall color so that it is harder to
single people out.

But I'll miss the variety of cultures.

[atreides1]

5. Question

How many incidents of rape, murder and deaths caused by drunk drivers who are either US citizens or legal immigrants have there been.

Or do you just keep track of the incidents that involve illegal immigrants?

Have illegal immigrants committed more crimes then others in Arizona? What are the exact numbers comparing the groups?

[goldcanyonaz]

7. Legals can be sued, illegals can not.

[Tansy_Gold]

9. legal or illegal (to use your terms) can be charged with a crime

Most cases of criminal activity -- rape, DUI vehicular homicide/manslaughter/whatever, murder, etc -- result in criminal charges, not lawsuits.

I was treated to a harangue from one of my whiter-than-white acquaintances today about how this new law is gonna cut down on crime by illegals. When I asked him how much it's gonna decrease crime committed by legal Arizona residents, including Canadian snowbirds, Japanese tourists, and the drunk next door, the look on his face basically expressed his belief that ALL crime in Arizona MUST be committed by illegals.

It's been my experience that there's no more crime committed by "illegals" -- and i really really hate that word -- than by any other group of people, but they are a vulnerable group who have little defense against the charge, so they are conveniently scapegoated.

And they are scapegoated too often by people who should know better.




Tansy Gold

[goldcanyonaz]

11. You can't sue an illegal but you can sue a citizen

[Tansy_Gold]

13. i know that

but crimes are not dealt with via lawsuits. You're bringing up the claims that "illegals" are committing crimes like rape, murder, drunk driving. We don't sue people in response to crimes. Your argument is illogical.

If an "illegal" commits a crime, she/he can be charged the same as a "legal." A lawsuit has nothing to do with it.




TG

[Tansy_Gold]

15. wait a minute -- who says you can't sue "an illegal"? n/t

[goldcanyonaz]

18. How do you collect?

[WolverineDG]

20. Just because you can't collect doesn't mean you can't sue nt

[Tansy_Gold]

22. You can sue a legal white guy and not collect, too.

Not to get personal or anything, but I think you're barkin' up the wrong tree.

1. The new anti-brown-folks law is not going to stop crime committed by legal white, black, brown, pink, green, or polka-dotted folks.

2. Brown folks who commit crimes and get caught are very likely to be charged with those crimes and, if convicted, sent to jail. And it's also pretty likely that they will be sent to jail here in Arizona, where us legals will be taxed in order to pay for their incarceration. We don't generally send murderers back across the border with a free bus ticket and an armed escort.

3. A lawsuit is not a substitute for criminal charges.

4. White folks who get sued frequently never pay up, even when they're legal and rich.

Now, if I remember correctly from a PM some months back, you're no longer in Gold Canyon, AZ. Just so happens I live about a mile and a half towards AJ from GC, and there are at least a few folks -- and maybe more than a few -- in GC who are happy as clams with the new law. 'Cause they think every brown person who talks Mexican is an illegal and they think all those Mexican-speakin' illegal brown people are gonna disappear tomorrow and then there won't be any crime any more. NEVER MIND that it's their own kids and grandkids who are doin' drugs and gettin' arrested for it. See, if a white kid does it, well, it's just a personal problem, a sickness, a result of the trauma of poor parenting. IF A BROWN KID DOES IT, IT'S 'CAUSE ALL BROWN KIDS ARE LIKELY TO AND ONLY A FEW ARE THE GOOD EXCEPTIONS WHO DON'T.

But not everyone in Gold Canyon, AZ, thinks that way. Some of 'em, to be sure, are afraid that if all the illegal brown people leave, they might have to pay real money to get their pool cleaned or their bushes trimmed in accordance with HOA directives. But believe it or not, there are people even in Gold Canyon who think this law is terrible and stupid and unfair and racist and regressive and awful.

And almost everyone in Gold Canyon, Arizona, is white. Almost.



Tansy Gold

[WolverineDG]

19. You can sue anyone

You may not get anything out of them, but yes, you CAN sue an undocumented alien.

:eyes:

dg

[Redstone]

14. OK, I have a question for you:

You said: "I must add this and some might not care for it but we have had many incidents of rape, murder and deaths caused by drunk drivers who are here illegally"

...How many such incidents were cause by people who "are here legally?"

Redstone

[BlooInBloo]

16. Yah - because the *cops* are the ones we should *really* be worried for.

(facepalm)

[classysassy]

17. Exporting democracy to foreign countries

have failed,can we have some here in america(arizona)?.

[WolverineDG]

21. Yeah, & US citizens & green card holders don't commit crimes in AZ

riiiiiiiggggghhhhhtttttttt.......

and I speak as someone who lives on the front line of the drug cartel wars. That statement about "illegals" & crime is bullshit. Yes, SOME will commit crimes, but not ALL criminals are "illegal aliens."

dg

[Tansy_Gold]

26. "Stories have been of great focus"

The stories that get the 'focus' from the media should be looked at in that context. What agenda is served by hyping the tales of "illegal" rapists and murderers, drunk drivers and home invaders? What agenda is served by NOT hyping the tales of white, "legal" murderers and rapists?


Here's a case from a couple years ago, truly horrific, of one teen-ager stabbing another teen-ager to death over a girl. http://www.ajnews.com/vol12/063008/pdfs/0630_com_AJNW_A1.pdf Are we going to start rounding up all the teen-agers now because they may commit crimes against each other?

According to this site http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/az/apache-junction/crime/
chances of being a victim of a crime in Arizona are 1 in 168, but in Apache Junction only 1 in 248. I don't know how the statistics are compiled, or even how old they are, but it's possible to use those statistics to say that people in Apache Junction are more AFRAID of crime than they are VICTIMS of crime. It's then possible to ask, are they AFRAID because the media is hyping something that really doesn't exist?

I've lived in Arizona for almost 25 years, 20+ in the far west rural community of Buckeye, which was horribly racist and horribly segregated, dominated politically and economically and socially by white "pioneer" farming families. I never fit in out there, and four years ago I moved to Apache Junction. While the far east valley has its share and then some of white racist morons, it is possible to find a much more liberal element. Not liberal enough and not enough of them, but the contrast is quite obvious.

But the point I'm making here is that if one relies only on the media to provide information on controversial issues, and one does not question the motives behind the way that information is provided, one runs the risk of being either ill-informed or uninformed or both.



Tansy Gold, who is never informed enough