•••••• NY Times - G.O.P. Threatens Seats Long Held by Democrats ••••••

[breadandwine]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/us/politics/25campaign.html?hp=&pagewanted=all


For those Democrats who think this is just Ed Koch or the GOP noise machine screeching, they need to read this Times article. We're in trouble.

Despite some recent love pats against the opposition, some polite - er - fisticuffs, Democrats are still refusing to shout, holler, pound the podium and "demagogue" issues the way the GOP has SO SUCCESSFULLY. As long as the Democrats prissily insist on being namby pamby wimps and on bringing a knife to a gunfight AS WE ALWAYS DO, we are in for political chaos.

There are no cots being set out to fight GOP filibusters and double-dare them to take the blame for shutting down the government. Some of you may recall that Harry Truman was not afraid to send Congress one bill after another knowing full well they would obstruct. He did it anyway just to show what obstructionists they were and he didn't constantly wimpishly shelve bills that got filibustered.

Never in the history of this democracy has one party - the GOP - gained so much political steam while deserving it less.

I am now reading that Democrats on Capitol Hill are putting off the global warming issue even though alternative energy could revitalize our whole economy the same way things like the Tennessee Valley Authority with its energy projects did under FDR. And we see that once again we are caving, agreeing to offshore oil drilling (which won't accomplish a thing economically, it's just a drop in the bucket of our dependence on foreign oil). The White House has also caved on nuclear power. Yet nuclear power, even if it were not so dirty and dangerous and a terrorist's dream come true as a target, is also a fool's game because by 2050 all the main uranium deposits still available will be the more minor ones that will require so much energy to extract - FOSSIL FUEL - that it would actually use up less fossil fuel to burn that fossil fuel directly instead of using it to extract uranium from the ground. And yet despite these "collegial" concessions to the GOP the GOP is still playing us for suckers and the few willing to work with us on energy are now backing out with fake excuses.

I am not ashamed to admit it. I do not understand the Democratic Party. I am at a loss to understand a party so clever in building the safety net under FDR, so brave in storming the beaches of Normandy, so great in giving us civil rights legislation and Medicare, so enterprising in landing a man on the Moon, and so incredibly stupid when it comes to saving itself.

What has the GOP given us? Three stock market crashes and a savings and loan scandal. But you don't hear Democrats nailing the SOBs and there is no brimstone, no fire in our bellies. You hear Democrats talking comity and collegiality and inclusiveness and bipartisan crap. Endlessly licking the bloody hand that beats us.

[breadandwine]

1. Thanks for the rec.

...

[Xipe Totec]

3. Here's another.

[breadandwine]

2. Thanks for the second rec.

...

[Flubadubya]

4. And another rec...

Obama, and some Dem leaders, are so obsessed with "governing in a bipartisan fashion" that they seem to neglect the fact that all the GOP is interested in is forever "burying the 'Democrat' party" and "governing alone".

The Dems have the opportunity of governing alone AND burying the GOP right now... maybe their LAST opportunity to do such. Will they take that opportunity?

Sadly, I don't think so. :(

[sendero]

5. +1,000,000

... I don't get it either but there it is.

Obama has a short period of time to get actually tough with the banksters, not this ridiculous smoke and mirror slush fund bullshit he is proposing now, or we are toast in Nov.

And you can take that to the bank(ster).

That and a little TRUTH about how we got here, deregulation deregulation and more deregulation. Wingnuts actually believe that it was the CRA (no involvement) and Fannie/Freddie (peripheral involvement).

Why shouldn't they NOBODY IS TELLING THEM DIFFERENT.

[mmonk]

6. More recommends are needed (I'm one of the initial 3).

Come on DU and recommend for the reality we face.

[KharmaTrain]

7. Oh Noes....

More doom and gloom from someone who claims he "doesn't understand Democrats" and then uses the Climate Change bill as the justification for a massive loss of Democratic seats this fall? This one deserves at least an 8 for contortions and backflips.

If Democrats lose seats in November it will be due to issues in each district, not health care or immigration or financial reform. It will be on how people feel about their pocketbooks...most elections are. Should the economy continue to struggle in November, yes, it will be a rough ride for Democrats, but it's sure not going to be cause they didn't pass what is sure to be a contentious Climate bill that, while with big merits, wouldn't have any impact on the economy for years to come. It's not the like GM bailout that saved thousands of jobs immediately and could help Democrats in November (as rising poll numbers in Ohio are showing).

The fun of watching the "pundits" make their proclamations from on high, they know no more about the electorate or the races than most of us here do. And in many cases since we have DU'ers actually on the ground in these places, they offer a far better and more accurate picture than what someone busy living the "conventional wisdom" does.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KharmaTrain]

10. And You Are???

Sheesh...don't like what I am saying, engage in the discussion...point out where you disagree. Don't like what I'm posting...move along. Ad Hominum attacks don't fly here. Find another sucker.

Peace...

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[salin]

15. I find wisdom in Kharma Train's words

and have been following local/regional and national politics for more than a quarter of a century from both coasts and the midwest. Blue areas and red ones. That said, this line of attack is sort of ironic given the snide comment asked just prior.

[breadandwine]

27. Welp, Salin, I've been INVOLVED with Democratic Party campaigns and government for HALF a century

and worked on Capitol Hill. I have also held staff positions in some Democratic campaigns. I also have an education in political science at a leading Ivy League.


So lets get to some specifics.


Richard Nixon, may he rot, once said that "When you have said something so many times you are ready to puke, that is the first time anybody will hear you." Or as Hitler, may he burn, said, if a lie is repeated often enough everyone will believe it.

The GOP knows how to harp on something in shrill tones that may annoy but get enormous attention and scare the crap out of people. We don't. We don't know how to get shrill.

Also, more history, Truman suffered massive losses on Capitol Hill because he foolishly attacked unions since the GOP was calling unions communist and he didn't want to be associated with communists. The result was that workers stayed home in droves. Something similar is now happening. The Democratic base is frustrated that the White House is caving to the GOP so much and many WILL stay home, not from turning against the Democrats but simply from apathy and lack of enthusiasm. It is an absolutely toxic mix to have an energized opposition while your own side is apathetic because you keep CAVING to that opposition.

And another historical fact: Midterm elections are always decided by the energized and most people don't vote in midterm elections. This gives enormous, huge, huge, huge advantage to people like the tea partiers. They don't NEED to be in the majority. All they need is to show up at the polls en masse, because they are energized, while Democrats are frustrated and apathetic. That is enough to tip the scales. That is an instant recipe for political disaster.

Aside from these HISTORICAL facts, there are a few other facts I've contributed, like the link in the opening post. READING IS GOOD.

I am getting really sick of the "Do not panic, we're fine!" crowd. They feel absolutely HURT when someone gives them a warning about what is happening in this election. Warnings are very useful. The reaction of some people to what is now being warned is like the person who is driving off a cliff and someone yells at him from the sidewalk that he is heading towards a cliff, but he shouts back, "How dare you say that! You're hurting my feelings!"


In the words of Cervantes, "Forewarned, forearmed."


And among others making warnings are Rachel Maddow, Cenk Uygur, Keith Olbermann and many other progressives. Are they too all alarmists? Or are those screaming "Don't panic!" acting like ostriches with their heads in the sand?


And here's another quote:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." --- George Santayana.

The bottom line is that some people can't handle bad news and want to shoot the messenger, but the messenger isn't just me. Read the link at the top of this thread from the New York Times.



And here's a little Shakespeare:

"Horatio will not let belief take hold of him, touching this dreaded sight."

"Your ears are so fortified against our story."

"As prologue to the omen coming on."

"What's past is prologue."

"Doubt thou the stars are fire, doubt truth to be a liar."

"Thoughts black, hands apt, drugs fit, and time agreeing, confederate season, else no creature seeing."

"But like the owner of a foul disease, to keep it from divulging, let it feed."

"How cheerfully on the false trail they cry."

"The single and peculiar life is bound with all the strength and armor of the mind. It is a massy wheel fixed on the summit of the highest mount, to whose huge spokes ten thousand lesser things are mortised and adjoined."

(In other words our paradigms and preconceived notions prevent us from seeing the truth.)



Machiavelli in "The Prince," chapter 25, praised audacity over caution. Ironically, President Obama got elected with the phrase, "Audacity of Hope" but his first year in office was highlighted by great caution and caving in to the GOP. In chapter 25 Machiavelli says of the cautious man, "If time and circumstances change he will be ruined, because he does not change his mode of procedure. . . the cautious man, when it is time to act suddenly, does not know how to do so."

[salin]

74. Thank you for your work...

I have also worked the Hill, and on campaigns. I do not ascribe to the don't be worried, and don't think KT was saying that - but was saying that on a local level the state of the economy has a huge impact.

I appreciate your historical view - it extends mine, and I take note (and will book mark to digest) - which starts with the pre-rise of Gingrich (mid 80s) and the movement to take over statehouses per getting the power to redistrict which had a huge but often under-appreciated role in the 1994 turnover in the US House. I forget the name for the movement but it was in a sense "project 1990" with the idea that if they controlled state houses in 1990 that by 1992 the could gerrymander congressional districts to favorable odds.

I agree that even ridiculous rhetoric, spewed enough, does start to take hold. And on occasion it also turns folks off - esp if the staying in the ridiculous keeps moving farther form folks individual realities. I would suggest that the 2006 elections were in part dem leaning for this reason. However, the severe decline in local economics (to this I mean both house hold and local city) - shifted the whole dynamic.

This is where I agree with Kharma Train. Without the economic turmoil and fear - the right's rhetoric has gotten so disconnected with regular folks' lives that it would continue to alienate more and more voters. However, the economic uncertainty and fear shakes things up. In this very unique time (not yet a Great Depression), but certainly worse than any of the late 80s recessions, the local economy and attitude toward the economy is likely to play a *huge* role. If things continue as is, or deteriorate - the affect of the crazy rhetoric finds resonance - not because of agreement with the rhetoric - but agreement in the anger. If local economic (and hope) seem to be improving/normalizing - the effect of the now crazy rhetoric from the right is neutralized in many areas.

All that said - I will re-read your post to internalize the ideas/themes - as it is a perspective that seems worthy of consumption/consideration.

Peace, salin.

[breadandwine]

75. Good points, Salin. I think you are right to touch on the economic angle.

I think the economic situation makes people desperate toward anyone in power, just as they turn on the GOP in 2008, now the danger is that they will turn on the Democrats. It's very troubling. And our party is in the crosshairs.

There are also many things coming up on the horizon that could send us back into recession. This too is scary and unfortunately we Democrats are not riding the wave of this economic frustration, the GOP is. As long as we are not ANGRY at the GOP and they are screaming against US, that frustration is directed at us, not them.

This is the problem or a big part of it. The more that we are calm, wimpy and weak, the more we fail to convey that we are "real." Because we don't get angry we seem out of touch with real Americans. Economic hard times can be utilized by anyone from either left or right and since we aren't, the other side is. This is how fascism advanced in the 1930s.

[KharmaTrain]

80. You Have It Right, Salin...

Thank you for trying to interpret my meaning better than I could get it across.

My point was that in times where there's economic uncertainty people will vote local and their pocketbook above national and big ticket issues. While I haven't work "on the hill" or as part of any professional organization (I've never been paid), I have worked on campaigns on and off for nearly 40 years and bring those experiences to how I view elections. In times of economic downturns (1980 for example and then again in '92), the incumbents are more vulnerable and I expect the same thing this year...as opposed to a more prosperous year...say 2004 where the focus was on external matters...or fringe issues...those many times work on behalf of the party in power.

This is by no means scientific, but I'll bet if I could get my old tally sheets and surveys, I could come up with some interesting data.

I think the anger this year is "bipartisan" and polls show that disastisfaction with both parties remain high...the rushpublicans really haven't gained anywhere near what their press clipping like to proclaim.

Populist rhetoric also always finds a crowd during uncertain times and we're seeing this happen again, but it's a movement that is based on a political extreme rather than appealing to the mainstream and will be its ultimate downfall.

Again...many thanks for an enlightening discusion...and for "covering my ass".

:hi:

[DCBob]

18. Nasty comment..

hope the mods delete you.

[DCBob]

9. Nah.. the GOPers peaked too soon.. looks like we are headed for a "normal" mid-term..

with a few losses for the party in power.. but no change in majority. Read Nate Silver's latest..

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/senate-forecast-update-little-chance-of.html

[mmonk]

11. I'm hoping the recent extremism shown will start bringing people

to some sort of sense.

[DCBob]

16. Yep, all their cries of "socialism", "Government takeover", "Obama will destroy America"..

are starting to ring hollow now with the economy on the mend and the country appearing to be on the right track.

[breadandwine]

19. DCBob, your link has a headline ---

"Little Chance of GOP Takeover, but Dem Position Remains Precarious." It's that second half of the sentence that might be notable. As in "Dem Position Remains Precarious." Your link actually underscores exactly the concern expressed in the Times article of the opening post here.

Those who remember Newt Gingrich's takeover of Capitol Hill in the 1994 midterm elections are seeing the writing on the wall and history repeating itself. Gingrich, in fact, took over ALSO because of the healthcare issue.

And one of the key factors in all this is that in this kind of political climate polls typically underreport the importance of fanaticism. Despite all the usual measures of asking people if they are really going to vote, normal people who SAY they are going to vote don't mean it as much as fanatics do when THEY say it. This country has a minority of raving maniacs who are going to go to the polls and vote Republican if they have to shoot their way in to the polling place. Less than half of NORMAL people vote in midterm elections. But enraged right wing lunatics will go to the polls in droves if they have to crawl there.



Incidentally, when forecasters say "The economy is basically sound," it has been said that that is really code language for "Last chance to get your shotgun and a year's supply of canned goods. . ."

[DCBob]

21. Sure all politics is "precarious" but your OP sounds like we are headed for a disaster..

We aren't..

[breadandwine]

28. My headline, DCBob, is not even mine but the exact title of the NY Times article.

You can notice that by reading the article.

It is also not alarmist.

Ostrich, meet hole in the ground.

[DCBob]

31. I am not questioning the headline.. I question your interpretation..

"We're in trouble."

I agree with the following from Sen Menendez.. from your article..

Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey, chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, said that while he was expecting losses, he saw signs of a turnaround, including increased contributions and enthusiasm from core Democrats. “I’m not euphoric — don’t misunderstand me,” he said. “I just get a sense that we are moving in a better direction. I don’t think Republicans are taking either one of them, but I’m damn sure they are not taking the Senate.”

[breadandwine]

39. Okay, Bob, I stand corrected. You're questioning my interpretation. But you're still wrong.

I saw Menendez' statement too. He's head of the Dem Senate campaign committee. What do you expect him to say? He says money is up. That is the first thing on his mind. MONEY. This shows you that Democrats are back to the failed campaigning of the days before Howard Dean. Menendez sees himself as a FUNDRAISER, that's all, not a warrior. All the cash in the world is not going to save the Democrats when the GOP has UNLIMITED money coming from corporations acting "independently" courtesy of the Supreme Court ruling on corporate personhood. And already the GOP is asking the Supreme Court, in wake of its ruling, to go further and strike down soft money and they probably will.

If that is not a disaster what is it? We are facing a corporate tsunami this fall. Money? Menendez gets it down to MONEY? That is a regular RIOT! I am rolling in the aisles! That's really hysterical. We have money. The corporations are going to bankroll Republican advantage like The Invaders From Mars. Money? THAT'S his comment? Money is up he says. WOOPIE DING DONG! WOOP DEE DOO! WOOPIE F*CKIN' DING DONG!!!

Menendez also said enthusiasm from core Democrats is up. That's a very subjective statement and can mean anything, a chat he had with his cousin.

I've had a lot of experience in Democratic campaigns and politics. What Menendez said is politicalese for "I ain't got much to cheer you all up." It is the absolute bare minimum he could possibly say without losing his job. Politically speaking it's wimp lingo, the mutterings of the same sort of bean-counters who drove this party into a ditch until Howard Dean came along. And we're now back to the same wimpy approach.

I don't know if you were around to have remembered it, but President Kennedy didn't just have policies. He and other Democrats waged WAR. We had the war on poverty, the war on pollution, the war on injustice, the war on ignorance.

Democrats today don't wage war on ANYTHING anymore. They are not warriors. They chuckle, they act polite, collegiate and palsy walsy. They act as if fighting was some sort of F*CKIN' afterthought. That's what politics IS - a fight. A fight for the good. If a Democrat can't handle that, what is he in politics for in the first place?

[DCBob]

45. Well I think you are wrong..

Its not just Menendez and Nate Silver.. there have been numerous "non-partisan" analysts, experts, commentators who have all expressed the same thing recently. The mood has changed with HCR passing, the economy picking up, the effect of the teabagger terrorists... and the public has wised up to the GOPers disinformation and "just say no" campaigns. Furthermore, I think the numbers get even better as we get closer to November.

[tritsofme]

61. That post deals with the Senate landscape.

Control of the Senate has never really been in play, especially with their failure to recruit Pataki in NY and Thompson in WI, a GOP takeover seems rather impossible.

The article cited in the OP deals mostly with Democratic problems in the House, where I think there is a real chance of a GOP takeover. Nate Silver has recently acknowledged a worst case http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/generic-ballot-points-toward-possible.html">scenario in which Democrats could lose as many as 80 seats in the House. It is not a good sign when someone like David Obey is described as vulnerable.

That said we could see enough of an improvement in the political climate to moderate losses, but I would be surprised to wake up in the morning to find that Republicans net less than 30 seats in the House.

[breadandwine]

65. Thanks for that link, Tritsofme. Here's a quote from it:

"If the party were able to limit their losses to about 20 House seats and 3-4 Senate seats, it might not have as deleterious an effect on their policy agenda as you might think. But that is the upside case for Democrats. It is not the base case, and it is certainly not the worst case -- both of which look as grim as ever."


Again, this is a toxic political season and Democrats are not tapping into anger and DON'T KNOW WHAT ANGER IS.

The GOP knows how to get mad even if it's all astroturf crap.

We don't.

We act like wimps, deer caught in headlights.

[DCBob]

70. The Repubs need to pick up 41 seats to regain House majority...

Not likely and anything less than that does not change the House landscape much either..

[WeDidIt]

13. Piffle n/t

[Democat]

14. Can't believe how the Democratic Party still seems so weak!

I wonder if we held every seat in the Senate and Congress if they would still have trouble passing bills?

[mmonk]

17. As long as the monied interests can pass around cash, yes.

[Walk away]

20. We aren't weak. We just aren't a bunch of Nazis with a base made up of lemmings.

We all have different agendas because so many of us question authority and think independently. That has always been our biggest obstacle to success. It's also the reason that most of the good change this country has experience in the past hundred years has come when we are in power.

[breadandwine]

29. Walk, there is the matter of TACTICS in all this.

The GOP has gotten enormous political mileage out of being on the attack while we chuckled.

Too many Democrats are allergic to negative campaigning. Since the GOP stinks and we don't why is it, if I may ask, that we can't TELL THE TRUTH about them? If that is negative, SO WHAT?

The fact that we can't tell the full negative TRUTH about the GOP and finally strip the bark off of them is indeed real weakness on our part.

[Walk away]

34. I think both sides reduced to a bunch of ranting children is a bad idea.

Folks with brains don't like it.

[Democat]

33. I agree with you, but I also agree with breadandwine.

I agree that what we as liberals want is not always the same - and we are independent thinkers, so it's harder to get us to fall in line.

But, I think that we all agree that the GOP and the teabaggers are racist misguided people trying to harm future generations of Americans. So, if we all agree on that point, then why can we, like breadandwine suggests, come together and at the very least present a unified front to never let the GOP kick us around like the racist bullies they are? So many Democrats over the last ten years or more have allowed everything that they believe in come second to making sure that they don't offend Republicans who we all agree are wrong and corrupt. It makes no sense at all.

[breadandwine]

40. Thanks, Democrat. The teabaggers are all over the place like white on rice

while we're busy hiding in the corner saying we'll be good little boys.

[druidity33]

22. meh

a whole lot of platitudes, no real substance to the article. "Republicans say" makes an appearance a few times. Mostly conjecture.

Not impressed.

:shrug:

[ThomWV]

23. The recent reversal of roles of the Parties, the exposure of Republicans, and even the Teabaggers

are going to kill the Republicans in the next election. It is they, not us, who will lose seats.

[breadandwine]

30. Thom, you had me interested until you said the GOP is going to lose seats.

NOBODY believes that, not even Democratic strategists.



It is also completely at odds with political history which says that even under the best of conditions the ruling party almost always loses seats in a midterm election. And this midterm election is going to be one of the worst because all the astroturf agitation has created tremendous anger out there.

Incidentally, even if things get good economically even that is still no guarantee the GOP won't do well. President Clinton improved the economy tremendously and usually got almost no credit for it. Also, sometimes rising expectations can actually increase public frustration. If they get a little they can become dissatisfied and want more. For instance, Alexis de Tocqueville observed that in the generation leading up to the French revolution conditions were improving for the French dramatically. He concluded, "The French found their situation the more intolerable the better it became."

[Political Heretic]

24. The Democratic Party is to blame if there is Democratic trouble. Will they get the message?

Hope so. It'd be a shame for them to lose seats, and if they do there will be no one to blame but party leadership and candidates refusing to get in touch with ordinary Americans.

Actually, I'm not even sure there will be much political trouble. We're effectively reinflating the economic bubble through some trickle down economics that would make Ronald Reagan green with envy - maybe enough people will be riding that short tide of superficial non-thinking and go back to their football games and golf and stop paying attention to our long term national crisis again.

If so, then I could imagine a basic no-gain, things staying about the way they are now as far as parties and seats go.

[blogslut]

25. More hyperbolic scare mongering from Ad Nags

meh

[breadandwine]

50. Blogslut, I don't dispute that there is GOP scare mongering. But you need to notice that it WORKS.

They really know how to beat us up and we really DON'T know how to beat THEM up.

[blogslut]

62. What once worked does not always work forever

Remember the fable of The Boy Who Cried Wolf? The American public has grown weary of petty fear-based politics. They've got real problems. They want true action from their legislators. This isn't 1994. This president was elected by a resounding majority, by an electorate disgusted with fake terror alerts, false morality and incompetent leadership. Times are hard but the GOP continues to offer the same old boilerplate blah blah blah. The party in control has historically, consistently lost seats during mid-term elections - that will probably not change this time. However, predictions of an incredible GOP landslide are the wishful desire of a dying party. That the MSM buttresses the meme is symptomatic of an industry that has forgotten how to report news as opposed to make news.

Our problem isn't the fetid ramblings of angry haters who probably don't vote as often as they bitch about politics. Our problem is apathy. It's time to stop worrying about manufactured outrage and start getting out there to tell our neighbors why every election is important. Show them that this president and the Democratic party have made incredible strides in cleaning up the vast mess left by the previous administration. Explain how we're almost through these rocky waters and it has been Obama and the Democrat that have been steady at the helm.

In other words, get. out. the. vote.

[breadandwine]

64. It has worked for an entire year. The GOP beat up on us so bad that what we are left with is

corporate healthcare nobody likes.


So we spent a year coming up with something the public doesn't like and not achieving much else that the public is really aware of and that is our "accomplishments" going into the election.

[blogslut]

66. That is your opinon

I knew going in that health care reform was an Sisyphean climb and frankly, I am impressed that we got what we got. My daughter was once uninsurable, now she can get insurance. I am finally eligible for Medicaid when before, because I have a (low-paying) job, I was not. We are both much better off than we were a year ago.

You say the public does not like the bill but I have yet to see any concrete proof of that. All I hear are republicans and media talky talks making that claim.

[breadandwine]

67. Blogslut, I agree with you that the healthcare bill is a step forward.

I think Paul Krugman in the end was very supportive of it and I have a lot of respect for him.



You say there is little evidence the public is really unhappy with the bill.

Do you have much evidence that the public is wildly happy with the bill?

This is what Democrats spent the last year working on. This is what we will be remembered for going into the election in November and huge numbers who will vote fanatically out of proportion with the population think it's socialism and facts don't matter to them because they are NUTS.



I remember the Clinton presidency. He created millions of new jobs and turned the economy around, eliminated the deficit, gave us the first surplus in years.

Nobody gave him credit for it.


It was all, "Dang! Gonna shoot me a Dermacrit!"


And we lost Congress under Clinton.


I see history repeating itself because we are not belting the other side the way they belt us.

[pinto]

26. Ah geez. They're called mid-term elections and this piece of hyperbole is

basically a cut and paste of Republican contenders' stump speeches. I think the talk of disaster is a little over blown.

[breadandwine]

42. Pinto, regardless of who is propagating the meme, why aren't DEMOCRATS propagating the meme that

we're going to GAIN seats? Because nobody in their right mind believes that. The GOP is certainly propagandizing. But they couldn't get this far if they weren't doing a good job of beating us up with so little real response on our part. We still have our hands tied behind our back and they smell blood.

[patrice]

32. We really do need more BRAVE OUTSPOKEN Democrats speaking with STRENGTH & CLARITY

[Democat]

35. Exactly!

We need more fighters in our party. Fighters who can speak in soundbites that people understand. Where are they?

[patrice]

38. I think people who have developed those thinking skills, being the kinds of persons they are, have

NOT been brought along by TPB and these kinds of voices are correctly aware that running for office makes one vulnerable, so they have that awareness of the strife WITHOUT any sense of support.

I've seen similar things happen with minor candidates that I have worked for, even WITH party "support" it's pretty much a go it alone experience. They had to tone it down and even then (outside of the usual party training & social stuff) there was no one there for them.

[breadandwine]

43. Exactly. Democrats act like we don't even know what a soundbyte IS.

(I'm spelling it here the original way, referring to small amounts of computer information --- soundBYTE.)

Ask a lot of Democrats and they think a soundbyte means saying something in 30 seconds.

Nonsense. It means saying something in SEVEN seconds. The GOP knows how to do that, one liners that are savage and brief enough to find their way into every news report regardless of the news editor's bias until you hear it everywhere and it drowns out everything else.

Just look at Sarah Palin. "How's that hopey changey thing workin' for ya?"

THREE SECONDS!

Nasty, cutting and brief.

THAT'S a soundbyte.

Democrats think a soundbyte means reciting the preamble to the Constitution.

[jmondine]

36. We need to do more. We need to emasculate the GOP every chance we get.

The republics have cornered the market on our culture's deep seated femiphobia. As long as they seem less "girly", there are those in the mainstream who will be swayed by them no matter what their policies are.

[FarCenter]

37. The basic problem is the seniority system in Congress

Once the Democrats got back into power, the chairmanships in the House and Senate went to superannuated old farts that had survived since 1992 in safe districts.

It appears from the NY Times story that not only will a lot of freshman Representatives in swing districts loose in the fall, but the voters attention has also turned to these chairmen, who may now also be turned out. Rep Obey from Wisconsin is used as an example. He's 71.

[Karmadillo]

41. Damn that Nader!

nt

[breadandwine]

46. Well, Karmadillo, if we were fighting more, Nader would never have gotten anywhere.

The way to suck the oxygen out of people like Nader is to fight.

I don't see the Democratic party doing that and it all dates back to canning Howard Dean.

We are again a party of wimps.

[gulliver]

44. Always beat up the GOP and sell ourselves. Turn the lever all the way up...

...then break it off.

[breadandwine]

47. Democrats think about engaging in policy debates. Republicans think about skinning us alive.

And that is why they beat us so often despite having NOTHING to offer.

When you have nothing worth selling you learn to sell like a barracuda.

We haven't learned to be aggressive.

[bridgit]

48. Vote Misogynist Anti-American Fundamentalism - Vote republican 2012!

[breadandwine]

51. Why isn't anybody on our side in high places saying that the REPUBLICANS are dooming us?

Look at how the GOP has scared the crap out of everybody. It WORKED.


There really IS global warming and unless we stop the GOP the world really WILL come to an end.

When the GOP talks of doom they are HYPOCRITES because they are the biggest doomsday apparatchiks going.

Of COURSE there's doomsday. The GOP is driving the whole planet off a cliff!


You can't keep ruining the planet and NOT have doomsday.

Yet we Democrats are absolutely polite and wimpy ad nauseam.

[breadandwine]

52. Oh no. We can't say doomsday. We're not allowed! Only Republicans are allowed to say that!

...

[breadandwine]

53. There is something CLINICALLY INSANE about the planet being this far gone ecologically

and nobody on our side is allowed to say it.


Oh wait a minute. I forgot. We're only insane if we DO say it.

The GOP can scream doomsday all they want.

But it is FORBIDDEN for us to say it.

IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...
IT IS FORBIDDEN...

[anarch]

49. what's not to understand?

there is no dissenting party...just a bunch of corporate whores on a sliding scale of how far they're willing to blatantly go to keep things awesome for the ruling class. Which frankly requires suffering from the rest of us.

[Kablooie]

54. They think pretending to be Repugs will win Repug votes. Fuck that!

I believe it loses them votes.
Shows they are scared of the GOP and too weak to hold office.

They should be pushing their own agenda fiercely.
Gain the respect of people and the votes will come.

[breadandwine]

55. Kablooie, further up this thread I mentioned a mistake of Truman. Let me now mention a Truman quote

and one with which I agree, that you might like.


Truman said:


"If you run a Republican against a Republican, the Republican will win every time."


Ronald Reagan actually stole that quote himself.

But Truman said it first.

Reagan used it (without attribution) precisely in order to say that it was not useful for Democrats to waste their time trying to imitate Republicans and the public would know the difference and not reward the Democrats for imitating. He meant that the public would be able to recognize the genuine article from the fake. He was mocking Democrats for their weakness and desire to hide in the closet.

But Truman said it first.


Bottom line: Too many Democrats are closet Democrats and the public can tell that they are embarrassed about being Democrats. Actually, Reagan used to go around prattling that Democrats are "Librul, librul, librul." It was disgusting to watch Democrats respond to Reagan by sweating under the collar and denying they were liberal. What weakness. What wimps.



Again:



"If you run a Republican against a Republican, the Republican will win every time."

[BlooInBloo]

56. Ohnoes. Ad Nags said something. I'm so concerned. And look at all the dots!

That makes it sooperdooper EXTRA concern.

[breadandwine]

59. Uh oh. Blue in Bloo is name calling.

And expressing hurt over not knowing how to use a keyboard fully.

[Arkana]

57. I think maybe the NYTimes needs to stop bemoaning a disaster that hasn't happened.

[breadandwine]

58. Arkana, how would you say this election is different from 1994?

The similarities are legion.

[Arkana]

60. I'd say that the GOP had an organized platform and a defined leader

and a coherent message.

They also had a failed effort to pass HCR legislation AND the Brady Bill to run against.

What do they have this year? A bunch of angry white people consumed by hatred. That does not win you elections. They are fractious, disorganized, and the only reason they are where they are at ALL is because the media continues to prop them up. The RNC chairman has proven time and time again he is totally inept. Teabagger candidates are unseating Republican incumbents, and the teabagger candidates will NOT win general elections.

We will lose seats. I don't deny that. But this is not going to be 1994 redux. I will become a fucking TEABAGGER if this turns out like the holocaust of 1994.

[breadandwine]

63. Okay, Arkana. Good points. Now some counter points.

First of all, the "We will lose seats BUT" crowd has no real proof that in this toxic political climate coming on the heals of the worst recession since the Great Depression, that all that negative climate out there will NOT translate into loss of control on Capitol Hill. It's just a mantra. "We will lose seats BUT."

Secondly, it is standard political procedure to not offer your own plan until late in the game so it can't be attacked. Whoever comes up with their own plan first typically gets wounded because that offers a target, the other side gets to pick your ideas apart, which is exactly what has happened.

Thirdly, the point of this thread is from the Times article in the opening post, that we will lose seats. So you are agreeing. And not only that, but there is now enormous danger that we will lose enough seats regardless of who winds up with the majority, that there will be gridlock in Washington after the election. In fact, there has largely been gridlock EVEN WITH the current huge majorities we have now. If we can't stop the GOP from stalling change NOW, how will we do it after they take more seats?

So is the situation okay? Is it really that "We're fine! Don't panic!"

Every time the GOP starts smacking us around and we don't hit back there are always those who scream, "We're fine! Don't panic!" It's always an omen that we're not fine and that things are quite dire.


And we have a tsunami of cash about to enter the system on behalf of the GOP thanks to the Supreme Court coup plotters and their corporate personhood crap.


All because Democrats don't fight, don't hit hard, keep going to our positive thinking seminars and keep wearing our smile buttons while only one side, the OTHER side, is doing the hitting and beating us up.

We're wimps.

[Arkana]

69. I'm not saying that we don't need to get off our asses and make sure that

we don't get another 1994.

But people like you who run around with their hair on fire and proclaim that the sky is falling at every opportunity do not help. There are folks out there who are honest-to-goodness trying to hold the line, and you shrieking in their ears that they're about to die isn't going to help their morale.

[breadandwine]

71. Arkana, it's amazing how many people are running around with their hair on fire saying my hair is.

No offense, but have you ever heard of Freudian projection?

Some people on this thread, while shooting the messenger, are proverbially running around screaming, "Remain calm! Do not PANIC! The landing craft will be explained shortly!"

There can also be panic about facing reality, which some people with rose-colored glasses after a year of being used by the GOP as a punching bad still have on their eyes.

"Don't panic! Don't panic! Don't panic!" Some people who say this are the most panicked people of all. True courage does not consist of avoiding reality or popping Prozac but facing danger head-on. Again, in the words of Cervantes, "Forewarned, forearmed."

[libtodeath]

68. We had the votes

We had the votes,we had a historic landslide mandate,we could have enacted single payer healthcare and killed the insurance industry.
Then yeah..go ahead and fuck with the result teabaggers as everyone would be for us to keep their care.
We could have also legalized and registered all the scary to wingnut dark skinned folks that they have loved paying less then minimum wage to and then unionized them.
We missed a golden opportunity to make the repukes a dark part of our history.

[Arkana]

72. Killed the insurance industry?

A fine idea! Tell me, what would you have told the thousands of folks who would have lost their jobs?

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jillan]

77. It's APRIL!!! November is a loooong time away. Anything could happen between now and then.

If these articles and opeds are still coming out in Sept, then I'll be worried. But in the meantime :boring:

[breadandwine]

78. Not necessarily, Jillan. What happens now lays the groundwork for the November election.

Campaigns need time to get up to speed and so forth. A lot of Democratic Congressmen are now endangered and it's awfully bad to be down at any point and have to spend months just recovering.

[BrentWil]

79. That is the problem with having control over Congress and the Senate isn't it..

You can't blame the other guys. Either way, if the GOP gets back in power by taking over Congress, the public will soon remember why they are alot worse then the Dems.

[breadandwine]

82. Well, BrentWil, that's sort of what happened under Bush - the public eventually got sick of him.

But first he nearly destroyed the country and the world.

And with global warming moving at breakneck speed, faster than all the computer models, we can't afford more right wing power like that.

The idea that a GOP takeover will boomerang against them is potentially very complacent and I think ultimately dangerous.

We have all sorts of excuses for our apathy, complacency and lack of fighting spirit.

But we still have all those qualities as a party:

Apathy, complacency and lack of fighting spirit.

[WeekendWarrior]

81. THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!

sigh.

[breadandwine]

83. Part of the problem is that some Democrats have no idea what happened back in 1994

when the GOP took over. They either were too young or they have forgotten.

[breadandwine]

84. The GOP demagogued the election and it sounded stupid but it worked

because mostly fanatics vote in midterm elections.