AZ: IF they were sincere they would go after THE EMPLOYERS

[K8-EEE]

Why don't they go after the people who invite the undoc workers here - the ones who hire them! If they were sincere about it they would make the employers liable for hiring them, they're they ones making money off them. Doesn't it make more sense to go to the chicken processing plant and the lettuce farm and make HR give them proof that all the workers are documented, than stopping every brown person individually and demanding proof??

But they are not sincere; they want the cheapest, most exploitable labor and they know that this law isn't going to put a dent into it.

And it makes them look "tough on immigration" to the idiot Freepers for Nov.

What is it going to take to have a REAL conversation about this subject -- including the wages and working conditions the employers provide that make a constant flow of NEW undocumented workers in the best interest of the corporations?

[ellaydubya]

1. You are so right on!

Thanks for putting that out here- especially right now.

[stray cat]

2. Our economy has helped some - high unemployment caused many to go elsewhere

[NoNothing]

3. The bill *does* crack down on employers

That's a fairly major portion of it.

[K8-EEE]

13. Not really

I don't think anybody would be changing their way of doing business because of this bill, at least not until the first "probation" bust.

And let's face it, people here WANT illegal workers who work dirt cheap in shit conditions. Do you honestly think that employers are going to hire native born lettuce pickers and pay them minimum wage because of this bill? Ain't gonna happen.

Maybe the workers themselves she out the companies. What have they got to lose?

[harkadog]

4. Arizona already passed that law a couple years ago.

It provides for a 'death penalty' to any company knowingly employing illegals. Many Hispanics left the state after that because work opportunities dried up for them in many cases.

[ClassWarrior]

5. Yeah, who deserves jail more? A guy cheating American workers by hiring foreigners illegally...

...or a guy trying to earn some money to feed his kids?

NGU.

[Crabby Appleton]

6. There are employer sanctions in the bill, notably the revocation

business licenses, see section 23-212 of AZ Senate bill 1070.

[K8-EEE]

12. The second time, IF it's within the "probabtion period, IF it's

"knowingly" etc.

[DesertRat]

7. You really should read the bill

An employer will be fined a thousand dollars for each illegal they have working for them.

Here is the text of the bill which goes into effect in August:
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Also, in July '07 in Arizona passed an employer sanctions law which requires employers to verify that the people they employ are in the country legally.
http://www.sackstierney.com/articles/AZEmployerSanctionsLaw.htm

[K8-EEE]

9. I did read it....the employers get a slap on the hand as always

They get "three years probation," there are qualifications such as "knowingly" etc. The second offence they supposedly yank their licenses etc. BUT it has to happen within the probation period and there's always that caveat of "knowingly."

I think it's bullshit...

[pampango]

26. So you want to prosecute someone who thinks they're hiring a legal worker. If you are the judge,

employers in Arizona better not hire any Hispanics, lest some of them be illegal. If there is no way to be 100% sure of someones legal status, and if you make a mistake you lose your license and go out of business, you're probably going to be real careful about hiring anyone who resembles an illegal immigrant in any way.

Sounds like you think an employer who hires someone who is not legal is guilty until proven innocent. Or is it rather that guilt or innocence is irrelevant? The fact that they hire an illegal employee is a "one-strike-and-you're-out" offence and intent is irrelevant?

[spanone]

8. why would you cross the border if you couldn't find work? employers are guilty as hell.

[K8-EEE]

11. Not to mention those that hire nannies, gardeners, etc.

And yak about the horrible illegal situation, "but not Maria...she's like one of the family!" Etc. And believe me IF and that's a big IF they even go after employers there will be not one employer in the state of AZ who has even the slightest inkling their workers visas were not on the up and up.

It's all so fake...."get in line," there IS no line, these places WANT to hire illegals simply because they are so exploitable!

[ejpoeta]

10. but why do that when you can intimidate people.

make no mistake, they want to scare and intimidate these people.

[NNN0LHI]

14. The same pond scum are anti-union too

Around here employers that were unionized never had a problem being able to hire only US citizens.

Because there was no profit in hiring non-citizens. Had to pay them all the same anyway due to the union contract.

So there was no advantage to hiring non-citizens.

If you ever notice its always the same anti-union assholes who want us to be mad at the undocumented workers while its those same anti-union assholes who hire them.

Don

[K8-EEE]

16. It was the same way with the Irish, Italians, Polish

Every big wave of immigration, the employers take advantage and then try to get the underclasses to squabble with each other while they laugh all the way to the bank.

[SocialistLez]

23. Good point. NT

[Gold Metal Flake]

15. What are the five largest employers of undocumented workers in AZ?

I'm sure "agriculture" would be at the top but that is an industry not a company or corporation. I wonder what specific companies or corps are the top 5 (or 10). Have there been any studies?


Edit: spelling

[K8-EEE]

17. Agriculture is actually a big corporate entity a lot of the time

Unfortunately....

I read that a major employer of illegals is meatpacking & also chicken processing. These are jobs that used to be union....

I suspect that the reason there are no more non-hispanic hotel maids (at least in the southwest) is because it's cheaper to hire illegals. I mean if all the employees were paid minimum wage I think there would be more diversity in jobs like that.

[Gold Metal Flake]

18. Name the largest employers.

When you can name the names then the people of AZ can decide where they want to take the battle. Not good enough for the average AZer to just sit in the LazyBoy and shout at the TV their pro or con opinions about this crazy law.

[dem mba]

19. 100% correct - nt

[Odin2005]

20. Bingo! +1!

[Jade Fox]

21. Blame the poor brown people, let the white people off the hook......

Getting tough on the employers of undocumented workers is the only thing that would actually work, which is why they don't do it. As you say, they want that cheap labor.

[harkadog]

22. They have done it.

Two years ago they passed a law giving the 'death penalty' to any company knowingly employing illegals.

[Canuckistanian]

24. I've been saying that for years

And Thom Hartmann has, too.

The only reason there are thousands illegally crossing the border every day is because they KNOW there's a job waiting for them. Some even know where they're going to work before they cross.

These big ICE raids on plants and factories are a sham. After the authorities leave, the workers are quietly replaced and life goes on as usual.

[spooked911]

25. hear hear

couldn't agree more

[markbark]

27. Surely you jest, my dear man....

This is America! Rich white people aren't held accountable HERE!
:sarcasm: