(Late to the show) Did Israel raid an American flagged ship (in the floatilla)?

[NightWatcher]

straight up question

[BeFree]

1. I dunno

But they did attack the US Navy 'Liberty' once. And we paid them big money in the years to follow.

That is the truth.

[cali]

2. It looks that way

but I don't see how that makes it any worse. The IDF attacked a humanitarian mission in int'l waters.

[NightWatcher]

3. the question is so that I can try to understand our reponse and/or support

[FBI_Un_Sub]

9. Humanitarian Law

If the flotilla leadership was seeking the protected status of "Humanitarianism" (a term defined in International Humanitarian Law which is enforced by the International Committee of the Red Cross/Red Crescent) they hve comply with the "Seven Principles"

Impartiality
It makes no discrimination as to nationality, race, religious beliefs, class or political opinions. It endeavours to relieve the suffering of individuals, being guided solely by their needs, and to give priority to the most urgent cases of distress.

Neutrality
In order to continue to enjoy the confidence of all, the Movement may not take sides in hostilities or engage at any time in controversies of a political, racial, religious or ideological nature.

The flotilla leadership refused to take humanitarian aid to long held Gilad Shalit. IMHO that destroys their assertion of "humanitarian" status.

[Recursion]

11. They didn't want the aid confiscated

I don't think humanitarian missions are legally required to give the aid to people they know will prevent it from reaching its recipients.

[FBI_Un_Sub]

13. Not an "escape" hatch

see Seven Principles of the ICRC

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. Is there evidence that Shalit is in need of humanitarian aid?

And why would the 'flotilla leadership' have any compelling interest in the plight of a single POW, when they are trying to deliver aid to 1 1/2 MILLION people?

Oh, of course, a single Israeli soldier is of equal value to 1.5 million Palestinians.

I forgot.

[FBI_Un_Sub]

16. Int'l Humanitarian Law

'{i] And why would the 'flotilla leadership' have any compelling interest in the plight of a single POW, when they are trying to deliver aid to 1 1/2 MILLION people?"

In order to prove that they are in compliance with IHL and retain their "Humanitarian" protected status under IHL.

"Oh, of course, a single Israeli soldier is of equal value to 1.5 million Palestinians.

I forgot."

Ignored.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. Bullshit.

Their mission is NOT protection of the rights of POWs. It is delivering humanitarian aid to an oppressed populace. There are other organizations - in particular the Red Cross/Red Crescent - who have a long history of caring for POWs. This organization is NOT Red Cross/Red Crescent.

They are looking for the IHL status to deliver their materials to Gaza without it being confiscated by Israel. Simple as that. Shalit has nothing to do with this. No more than the hundreds of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel (who are also not having any of these materials delivered to them, you might note - why not? Because it is not their mission).

You are trying to change the subject, and are very transparent about it.

[Recursion]

20. Two problems: the "tu quoque" works against Israel, and the convoy was willing to carry the letter

But Shalit's lawyers stopped him from delivering it to the convoy.

Now, the larger problem is this: you can't justify Israel's brutality by pointing to Hamas without letting Hamas justify their brutality by pointing at Israel. If the blockade is a punishment for the rocket attacks, the rocket attacks are equally a punishment for the blockade. If holding Shalit is kidnapping, so is this.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

5. stop with the garbage.

this is the third post I've seen from you with the "chosen people" crap. It's bordering on the anti-semitic.

[elleng]

6. ditto

[David__77]

7. This is unhelpful.

This is not about religion. This is about the action of a state and its policies of collective punishment.

Your statement can certainly be construed as tarring all Jews with the actions of the Israeli state, which is unfair. The flotilla itself including Jewish people.

[Mari333]

8. my brother actually said that

he is born again etc etc etc and has this notion. he is an evangelical, and altho he thinks all jews are going to hell, he stands by them and wants to covert them. when I got back our dna test of our family and found out we are ashkenazi jews, he went ballistic. now he thinks hes a 'messianic jew' and has a sure spot in heaven.

I should have never shown him our dna.

[godai]

10. Freed American said she was on an American ship.

This was the CNN interview today. The American indicated that she had been handcuffed, beaten, later released on the street. Somehow she worked her way to Jerusalem, got a phone and was interviewed by phone on CNN. 100% truth in what she said? Dunno.

[cali]

12. I don't know either.

It hasn't been Iraeli policy to release folks like this on the street- they deport them.

[FBI_Un_Sub]

14. Think Matson Lines

Since Reagan destroyed the American labor movement -- the ONLY American flagged, SOLAS compliant, Jones Act compliant ships are owned/operated by Matson, and they do the Hawaiian run. (Norwegian Cruise Lines leases a Matson ship -- so don't throw NCL)

[mod mom]

18. an American ship-Challenger 1 TPM Link:

"We made it very clear with this flotilla via the media and otherwise that we would be unarmed and carrying cargo for the Gaza Strip," Arraf said, adding that to the best of her knowledge, none of the ships were carrying weapons. (Israel has claimed passengers on one of the ships used iron bars, knives and guns to attack soldiers.)


"Arraf said she was on the vessel called Challenger 1, an American ship, and that Israel contacted the boats by radio when they were 90 miles off the coast."

-snip

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/flotilla-passenger-we-were-challenging-israels-illegal-blockade.php?ref=fpi

[Hell Hath No Fury]

19. Contact info --

and let them know how you feel about this incident and the US's response:

President Obama
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
Comments: 202-456-1111.
Fax: [phone]

US Embassador Susan Rice
http://archive.usun.state.gov/Issues/Contact2.html
United States Mission to the United Nations
140 East 45th Street
New York, N.Y. 10017
Opinion & Comment line: 212-415-4062
Fax: [phone]

Israeli Embassador Michael B. Oren
Israeli embassy in DC
3514 International Dr. N.W.
Washington DC 20008
Tel: [phone]
[e-mail]
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michael-Oren/80233451916

Secretary General Ban Ki-moon
United Nations
New York, NY 10017 USA
212-963-5012 fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]