May 2009: Seymour Hersh - McChrystal Was Cheney's Chief Assassin; Camp Nama

[Hissyspit]

From Common Dreams and Press TV: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/05/16

Published on Saturday, May 16, 2009

McChrystal was Cheney's Chief Assassin

Seymour Hersh says that Dick Cheney headed a secret assassination wing and the head of the wing has just been named as the new commander in Afghanistan.

In an interview with GulfNews, (the Persian Gulf's largest daily English language newspaper published from Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates) on May 12, 2009 Pulitzer prize-winning American investigative journalist, Seymour Hersh, said that there is a special unit called the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) that does high-value targeting of men that are known to be involved in anti-American activities, or are believed to be planning such activities. According to Hersh, the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) was headed by former US vice president Dick Cheney and the former head of JSOC, Lieutenant General Stanley McChrystal who has just been named the new commander in charge of the war in Afghanistan.

- snip -

On July 22, 2006, Human Rights Watch issued a report titled "No blood, no foul" about American torture practices at three facilities in Iraq. One of them was Camp Nama, which was operated by the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), under the direction of then Major General Stanley McChrystal.

- snip -

When he and other interrogators went to the colonel in charge and expressed concern that this kind of treatment was not legal, and that they might be investigated by the military's Criminal Investigation Division or the International Committee of the Red Cross, the colonel told them he had "this directly from General McChrystal and the Pentagon that there's no way that the Red Cross could get in."

In the July 2, 2006 report, When Human Rights Watch asked whether the interrogator knew whether the colonel was receiving orders or pressures to use the abusive tactics, Jeff said that his understanding was that there was some form of pressure to use aggressive techniques coming from higher up the chain of command; however neither he nor other interrogators were briefed on the particular source.

- snip -

To hide prisoners or facilities from the ICRC or to deny access to them is a serious war crime. But many US prisons in Iraq have held "ghost" prisoners whose imprisonment has not been reported to the ICRC, and these "ghosts" have usually been precisely the ones subjected to the worst torture. Camp Nama, run by McChrystal's JSOC, was an entire "ghost" facility.

The decision by Obama's administration to appoint General McChrystal as the new commander in charge of the war in Afghanistan and retaining the military commission for the US war-on-terror detainees held in the Guantanamo Bay prison are the latest examples of the new US administration walking in Bush's foot steps with regards to torture and denial of habeas corpus.

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[mmonk]

1. Thanks.

Bookmarking.

[1Hippiechick]

2. My disappointment in our administration grows daily. One term, for sure. n/t

[pundaint]

38. i hope it can be done in the primaries.

[placton]

40. yes the primaries are our only chance to retain the presidency

because I fear the base wont do shit for the current white house occupant - nor should we

[Swamp Rat]

3. Obama better fire McChrystal, all his aides, and lock out all their access codes ASAP!

McChrystal should be busted to private first.

I hope he, Dickhead Cheney, Rumsferatu and the rest of the cabal are tried for war crimes someday.

[malaise]

9. +1,000

:hi:

[aquart]

4. No wonder McChrystal has no respect for civilian authority.

We order war crimes and he's the one with the job of committing them.

[EFerrari]

46. In a nutshell, exactly. n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

5. BuyPartisanship?

[jody]

6. I read the article, link below, very carefully. McChrystal said nothing disrespectful.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/119236

[Lil Missy]

7. bullshit

[Loki]

8. Why do you keep defending a man who LIED to a mother about her son's death?

We are talking about the mindset that has been established in this current military against this COC and McCrystal has demeaned his rank and his duty is to now resign, if he is an honorable man, which he is not. Why do you think that during the Bush admin. all the good people left? We are left with Petraeus and McCrystal. In my father's military, they would have been removed.........period.

[jody]

12. I have not defended McChrystal. I simply point out that I read nothing in the RS article that was

disrespectful or insubordinate.

The most damming quote was the following.

Now, flipping through printout cards of his speech in Paris, McChrystal wonders aloud what Biden question he might get today, and how he should respond. "I never know what's going to pop out until I'm up there, that's the problem," he says. Then, unable to help themselves, he and his staff imagine the general dismissing the vice president with a good one-liner.

"Are you asking about Vice President Biden?" McChrystal says with a laugh. "Who's that?"

"Biden?" suggests a top adviser. "Did you say: Bite Me?"

The RS article also says “diplomatic incoherence" "hampered efforts" in Afghanistan.

Sounds like dereliction of duty to me so who can fire them for that offense?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Looks like you're defending him to me.

So much for "pro-victim"

[jody]

22. IMO if a person reads an article without objectivity they could find what they want to find. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. If a person reads an article with intellectual dishonesty...

they'll be purposefully obtuse over whatever it is that they want.

[jody]

27. LOL have a peaceful evening. Goodbye. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Aww, you're going to stop posting?

But I'm having such good lulz.

[Jackpine Radical]

35. It wasn't so much about what he said as

what he permitted to be said by his subordinates. For him to tolerate publicly expressed (i.e. with a reporter present) disrespectful remarks about the civilian leadership is a violation of Chapter 88 of the UCMJ.

[Hissyspit]

10. "Special Ops Officers Shocked By McChrystal Comments"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8617596

[jody]

13. LOL. n/t

[Hissyspit]

14. Do you have a fucking point?

Thanks for kicking my thread by the way.

[jody]

15. LOL again because my point is so clear that further explanation would not help. n/t

[Webster Green]

11. Stop spamming!

:wtf:

[tranche]

32. I don't even think people are arguing that. He showed a pattern of insuborination.

Both by his actions and inactions. If your posse disrespects the administration, then you are disrespecting the administration. It reinforced a believe that McC didn't respect the CiC. That's why he was canned.

[olegramps]

43. I suppose that you are unable to grasp the fact that the majority of senior officers are staunch Rep

[JDPriestly]

48. McChrystal is quoted as insulting not only the president, but

almost every top-level person in Obama's administration with whom McChrystal was assigned to work. Every single one of them. He was a not a happy camper.

Subordinates grumble in lots of workplaces. Sometimes it is the "in" thing to do. It can even build a team, build camaraderie. But McChrystal grumbled publicly, very publicly -- to a reporter no less and then did not retract the statements after they were published. His attempts to apologize were lukewarm.

It is not a matter of peevish folks working with a very capable but temperamental teammate. It is a matter of a man in a top military position publicly criticizing and insulting the commander above him. If one of McChrystal's subordinates published an article in the Rolling Stone criticizing McChrystal, what do you think McChrystal would do? He would court-martial his subordinate or at least order the subordinate to clean latrines for monkeys for a couple of years.

You cannot have this kind of conduct in the top echelons of the military, not toward the president and the president's appointees. If McChrystal did not have confidence in some of Obama's appointees or in the vice president, then McChrystal should have expressed his opinions strongly but respectfully to Obama and to no one else.

Besides, the War on Afghanistan is not going well. And McChrystal, fair or not, must be held responsible.

Any president in Obama's position would do exactly what Obama did. The Rolling Stone article was virtually an invitation for insubordination or coup by publication. McChrystal may or may not have realized what he was doing. But he was correct to resign, and Obama was correct to accept his resignation.

[SemperEadem]

49. well, apparently

people who know better and are in a position to do something about it disagree.

[Mimosa]

16. The President appointed McChrystal as hhead of operations in 2009

So, is there a complaint about Obama's judgment then?

[Solly Mack]

17. K&R

[MilesColtrane]

18. Unsettling, especially when you consider that McChrystal wrote a short story...

about assassinating the president when he was at West Point.

[Uncle Joe]

19. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Hissyspit.

[amborin]

21. K&R and now lets abandon COIN, and bring our troops home!

[jody]

23. Agree, IMO any president who believes we can defeat Al Quaida and build a democratic govt. in

Afghanistan is incompetent to lead our nation.

Enough already, bring our troops home as rapidly as safety will permit and use the saved trillion $ (?) to fight economic wars and domestic terrorism aka crimes of violence.

[zappaman]

25. now Obama is "incompetent"?

wow.
just wow.

[jody]

29. Do you actually believe "we can defeat Al Quaida and build a democratic govt. in

Afghanistan"?

Is you vote to keep fighting in Afghanistan, send more troops, spend more money to make your dream come true?

Isn't that the position of right-wing Hawks and their neo-con handlers?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Afghanistan was a stable, sovereign country prior to the Soviet invasion.

History fail.

[Nothing Without Hope]

30. The corrupt oligarchy rolls on. n/t

[H2O Man]

31. Way recommended.

This is exactly the type of OP that DU denefits from. There is, of course, one responder seeking to distract from the central point. No surprise there.

"Soldier, your eyes shine like the sun. I wonder why?" -- Neil Young

[katandmoon]

33. K&R

[azul]

34. What the hell kind of pressure is the president under,

when he says, we do not torture, and then has to put some general with a torturous background in to run the undeclared war in Afghanistan?

Is the military running the show and empire? Enough of condoning torture by not investigating and prosecuting it.


"There is inevitable revulsion against any blatant attempt to make cruelty a law of behavior."
-Edgar Pangborn, from a Mirror For Observers

[EFerrari]

36. The abuse is not over. Now it's a matter of who will take over

the programs McChrystal was running.

[SemperEadem]

50. I think that under cheney, yes, the military was running the govt

I think that the way in which he and his myrmidons were allowed to get away with so much
--and make it secret-- set up this Gordian knot that Obama has been unraveling since he took
office.

I have a feeling that Obama's tack is to let them hang themselves just like mcchrystal and his crew have
spectacularly done this week... and perhaps now that Torquemada has been relieved
of his command that the change that everyone seeks in that situation swiftly comes about.

[lunasun]

59. Torquemada - good one!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

37. K & R

[Overseas]

39. Such intense reality behind corporate media references to his problems with harsh interrogation

The stories were mostly about his insubordination, with only oblique references to his problems with harsh treatment / or detainee abuse.

Torture was one of his three strikes. A leak here and outburst there -- and oh, torture.

That's why I'm still angry that we didn't make a clean break with the Bush Cheeney Gang as soon as we got our Democratic majorities, and certainly after a big majority voted in President Obama.

These Modern Republicans are not your Mom's GOP. They are monsters. We should not have ever tried to be bipartisan with them. They drove our economy and our ethics off some steep cliffs.

[EFerrari]

41. The contemporary Republican party is like fly paper for felons

with their never-ending corruption and hypocrisy. If they aren't caught with their hands in the till, it's in the pants of the wrong person. Look at what they're doing to poor Arizona for political gain. They are anti-social @ssholes, all of them.

[Overseas]

44. Can we retain our Democratic majorities and finally distance ourselves

from the destructive Modern Republicans, in this conservative mass media environment?

[EFerrari]

45. Not without a media strategy, imho. nt

[SemperEadem]

51. for real

co-sign.

They still have not taken the advantage on these two gems that landed in their laps this week.

If the shoe was on the other foot, the performing on the talking head shows would be non stop.

Hopefully, now that Lawrence O'Donnell has his show, a more progressive push will begin.

[flyarm]

42. Hersh: U.S Executing Afghan Prisoners

US Troops Carrying Out 'Battlefield Executions' In Afghanistan, Seymour Hersh Says (VIDEO)
First Posted: 05-13-10 11:08 AM | Updated: 05-13-10 03:37 PM


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/13/us-troops-carrying-out-ba_n_574892.html

Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh says that US forces in Afghanistan are carrying out what he referred to as "battlefield executions" of prisoners.

"One of the great tragedies of my country is that Mr. Obama is looking the other way, because equally horrible things are happening to prisoners, to those we capture in Afghanistan," Hersh said during a discussion at the Global Investigative Journalism Conference last month in Geneva, where he was also the keynote speaker. "They're being executed on the battlefield."

Hersh, who broke the Abu Ghraib prison abuse story in 2004, says that five or six people had told him about the battlefield executions of prisoners. A video of his comments was uploaded to Michael Moore's YouTube Channel on Tuesday.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hersh: U.S Executing Afghan Prisoners

Sat, 15 May 2010 16:48:27 GMT



http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=126589§ionid=351020403

As the Afghan occupation continues to prove troublesome for the Obama administration, a report says US-led troops torture and execute prisoners in the country. Seymour Hersh, an investigative journalist with the New Yorker, made the revelation during the Global Investigative Journalism Conference in Geneva.

"I'll tell you right now, one of the great tragedies of my country is that Mr. Obama is looking the other way, because equally horrible things are happening to prisoners, to those we capture in Afghanistan," Hersh said. He also alleged that US forces were engaged in 'battlefield executions' and other heinous offences, Raw Story reported. "They're being executed on the battlefield. It's unbelievable stuff going on there that doesn't necessarily get reported. Things don't change," Hersh noted.

Hersh who worked for many years at The New York Times also helped break the story that detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq were being tortured by their US jailers. The report comes as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has recently confirmed reports about the existence of a secret detention facility at a US airbase in Bagram in Afghanistan.

Human rights groups say Bagram and other US-ran jail facilities have remained US torture centers since the toppling of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan nine years ago. However, US officials claim that all inmates in the facility are treated humanely.

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[newtothegame]

47. Seymour Hersh? Doesn't he still owe us the 100's of names of people that were coming foward...

on January 20, 2009 to detail the crimes of the previous administration?

[EFerrari]

53. What are you referring to?

[newtothegame]

54. "You cannot believe how many people have told me to call them on 20 January"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/oct/19/seymour-hersh-new-yorker-reporter

[EFerrari]

55. And? You don't know who he has spoken to.

And of course, the fact that the same Bush war criminals are still in power is another consideration. One less after yesterday. It'll be interesting to see who pipes up now.

[Georgia farmer]

52. Seymour is delusional

He has never let a fact get in the way of his diatribe.

[Zhade]

56. Right - we're going to listen to some stupid anonymous asshole...

...over the guy who broke the news of the Mai Lai Massacre.

Get lost, you fucking idiot troll.

[H2O Man]

57. "

[BeHereNow]

58. Oh yeah, most Pulitzer Prize winning journalists are...

You don't read much do you?
BHN

[Scurrilous]

60. Kick

:kick: