When exactly did Robert Byrd go through this miraculous change in his bigoted ways?

[VMI Dem]

He joined the KKK in his mid-20's I believe. He opposed civil rights vehemently in his 40's. He vocally opposed gay rights in his old age and continued to use the n-word as well.

I am not happy that the guy has passed on, but I will not celebrate him as some kind of redeemed hero either.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. I gather waiting till after his funeral is not an option

[babylonsister]

8. Pretty sad, isn't it, though not surprising. nt

[dsc]

20. He didn't wait until after my friends funerals to trash gays and stop AIDS funding

and my friends didn't live until age 92.

[GodlessBiker]

31. +1

[Javaman]

35. +1000. nt

[damntexdem]

26. It is for me.

Bye to this thread. Unrec.

[tekisui]

2. When it became necessary for political viability.

I am with you. I didn't hate the guy. I didn't love him. I thought he was great in his anti-Iraq War speech, as well as other times. But, it doesn't change who he was.

[Ken Burch]

3. Byrd was no saint, but you're falling for a Republican meme

The whole issue with Byrds past started being raised when there was a dead heat in seats in the Senate and the Republicans started bashing Byrd(despite having themselves being the party of Trent Lott Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond after 1964)in order to falsely imply that Democrats had no right to control the chamber.

[VMI Dem]

5. When I talk about his past, I am talking about this century.

Never mind the last one.

[liberal N proud]

6. +1

[Ikonoklast]

4. About the same time VMI did.

No, wait, VMI was still fairly racist up until the last decade.

[BeFree]

11. That is VMI means

Virginia Military Institute.... VMI. Just to be clear.....

[Ikonoklast]

13. I know exactly what VMI means.

And where they stood on blacks and women until just very recently.

[BeFree]

14. Yes, of course

Just didn't want anyone to think it was a personal attack.

VMI and Byrd kinda evolved together, eh? Which answered the OP's question rather well. Good job.

[Ikonoklast]

21. VMI didn't evolve internally, however.

Sen. Byrd did.

Oh, and thanks for the kudos.

Right back atcha.

[Fire1]

30. Point being he DID evolve which is more than I can say for

alot of those fuckers still in the senate. Maybe they will too, once they've got one foot in the grave but I say, better late than never.

[spanone]

7. his body is still warm.

[Warpy]

9. He was a mixed bag, that's for sure

but then nearly everybody out here in workday land is a mixed bag.

He remained downright bigoted but accepted many of the changes that occurred during his lifetime. He did much good work in spite of it.

Whether the good outweighed the bad will be up to historians farther down the road.

[LoZoccolo]

10. N-word? Document or retract. n/t

[Cleobulus]

12. Been asleep for the past decade or so, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FIBJt-c2o0

[KonaKane]

34. wow, that was a stretch

He said "white n*ggers" and that was not a racist reference, but a political one - also I notice you conveniently ignore the vast majority of the clip in which he praised the civil rights movement and placing the days of racism "behind us".

Got any other cherry picked media bits to entertain us today?

[hedgehog]

15. I would posit that in much of the South, elections are still

won by politicians who use the right code words to appeal to racists. This is the basis of Nixon's Southern Strategy and is the reason the Republican Party has made so many gains in the South. Accordingly, Byrd could have continued to oppose civil rights without losing support had he been willing to use the proper code words. Instead, he changed and insisted that the people supporting him change.

If an old man continued to use the politically incorrect language of his youth, that is unfortunate but not uncommon. He turned his back on the easy racisim of his youth, and that's what's important.

[H2O Man]

16. A long process. n/t

[ThatPoetGuy]

17. In 1982.

Byrd went through a period of depression in 1982, after his teenage grandson was killed in a car accident. He spent some months questioning his actions and his beliefs, and he emerged from it a better man crusading for a better world.

It's odd that you're not aware of this major turning-point in his life, since you're up on out-of-context minutiae like the fact that he said "there are white niggers" in 2001.

[pansypoo53219]

18. there was a good interview on fresh air today.

he cartainly regretted it, but he was of that generation and i think in west virginia, it is very hard to escape. sounds like it was before he became political. and geez, where can i find his bluegrass album.

[Winterblues]

19. I will take a flawed Robert Byrd over EVERY single Republican any day of the week.

What's your point?

[LaydeeBug]

39. + 9,999,999,999 elevens. nt

[sabrina 1]

22. He has written a book which deals with

your question, He was born in a very different time and was a person who was constantly evolving and clearly willing to learn, not to mention acknowledge all of the mistakes the made throughout his long life.

The Rightwing radical fringe, bigots themselves who never evolved, discovered they didn't like HIS past, after his impassioned and brilliant speech against the War in Iraq. Suddenly every rightwing bigot, yelling 'kill the ragheads' 'destroy all Muslims', became critics of Sen. Byrd's past, a past which he had long since dealt with and atoned for.

If only some of the 'rag-head' 'kill all Muslims' hypocrites, could evolve in the way that Sen Byrd did, were willing to understand how wrong they are, what a different world it would be. But unlike Sen. Byrd, I am afraid they have no such capability so the world continues, as Sen. Byrd pointed out, to wallow in hatred and to use violence to express it.

I think rather than denigrating someone who had so much to overcome from where he began, we should always be happy when someone shows that human beings CAN change as that gives ME hope that if he could do it, maybe even those hypocrites who pointed fingers at him, can someday also, and that can only benefit all of us, unless of course we prefer that no one changes.

Ted Kennedy loved Sen. Byrd. Byrd started out not liking him, not wanting him in the Senate. But he learned to love and respect Sen. Kennedy and cried when he heard he had a tumor. I will never forget the picture of him, sitting in a wheel-chair, with tears in his eyes on the steps of the Capitol Building at Sen. Kennedy's funeral. He looked so forlorn that day, as he had lost one of this best friends in the Senate.



And here he is reciting 'Footprints in the Sands of Time' for Sen. Kennedy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYwekJ1-FXU

He was a constantly evolving human being and as such a real example that people can overcome even their earliest and darkest influences.

He knew that some would never let him forget his past, but he accepted that. Just as Kennedy knew many would not allow him to forget his. But neither of these two men allowed their own pasts, or the personal regrets they both felt, to stop them from doing their very best to do what was right for this country.

He still had more to learn, and way to go, long as his life was and he had not reached perfection by any means, but he tried and I have no doubt that had he lived another few years, he would have continued to evolve.

I hope there is a place where we all go after we are finished with this planet. My American Indian girlfriend believes we go to another plane where spirits meet again. I'd like to believe that Sen. Byrd has re-united with his beloved wife, and with his friend Sen. Kennedy, it's a nice thought anyway.

[KonaKane]

23. It took quite a while, actually

From an article posted on a related thread:

"Senator Byrd's transformation was not “quick.” It did not take place overnight, in a year, or even in a single decade. He worked on personal growth throughout his adult life, and years in government. And, truth be told, he died an imperfect man, just as every other person who undergoes a positive transformation remains sad and weakly human. For, as the old Irish saying goes, a saint is merely a dead sinner, who has had their life edited for the history books."

I am so happy that you are perfect, never did something you deeply regret and had to work to atone for it. Must be really nice.

[sabrina 1]

27. Very nicely said. You were right, there

are many things we probably agree on. In Sen. Byrd's case, I see his story as a triumph over influences that could have turned him into a very different human being.

But of all those who voted both for and against the Iraq War, he was alone in his concern for the children and the people of Iraq, while many of his critics chanted bigoted, anti-Muslim rhetoric, and even Democrats continued to revere their own Generals, like Gen. Miller eg who advised his troops to 'treat the Iraqis like dogs', without any reference to that dangerous bigotry, which has cost the lives of over one million Iraqis. Only the so-called 'bigot' expressed concern for what that war might do to them.

Humans are strange, blind to their own faults, but so clear sighted when it comes to the faults of others.

[KonaKane]

32. Right on the money. An additional quote comes to mind....

"I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him; The evil that men do lives after them, The good is oft interred with their bones, So let it be with Caesar..."

- Mark Antony, Julius Caesar, (William Shakespear)

[sabrina 1]

36. Perfect quote. n/t

[Nye Bevan]

38. I'm sorry- I missed where the OP claimed to be perfect?

Or do you believe that only people who are perfect are ever allowed to criticize anyone else?

[KonaKane]

41. Is there a point in there somewhere?

Because the OP was in an awful rush to toss out the positive accomplishments of a man's 70 year legislative career in our party, over some stupid thing he briefly did as a 24 year old. I was curious if the OP had ever made a mistake in their lives, and spent so much of the rest of it working for something better.

That stands as a valid question. While you're here, maybe you'd like to take a crack at it.

[phleshdef]

24. He endorsed a black man for President and was rated 100% by the NAACP.

And his use of the N word in 2001 was not used in a racist fashion. He was talking about how hating people is wrong and was basically saying that white people who are down on black people need to look at how there are white people who are doing the same things they are down on black people for.

" I think we try to have good will. My old mom told me, 'Robert, you can't go to heaven if you hate anybody.' We practice that. There are white n------. I've seen a lot of white n------ in my time, if you want to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much."

It was a poor choice of words, but also not uncharacteristic for someone raised in a time where it wasn't considered shameful to use such a word.

He apologized for it but it was obvious from the statement that he was not using it in a way to denigrate black people.

[Fire1]

28. THANK YOU for setting the record straight. n/t

[crazyjoe]

42. so what exactly is a white nigger?

[phleshdef]

43. In the context that Byrd was talking about...

...he seems to be talking about white people that live the same kind of life that certain racist white people accuse the general population of black Americans of. I think it makes more sense to native WVians. The area where I grew up had a lot of impoverished, dirty, drug/alcohol addicted people, leeching off of welfare and generally getting by while working as little as possible, and those same people were very likely to claim that most black people are poor, dirty, drug and alcohol addicts who are leeching off of welfare and generally getting by while working as little as possible.

[Fire1]

25. He was a controversial figure of his own making. The same can

be said for Strom Thurmond, George Wallace and many others who transformed their thinking in later years. Better late than never, in my book. RIP, Senator and thank you for your years of dedicated service.

[Bitwit1234]

29. When a person is raised in a certain way

most times he is bound to think the way he was taught. It takes a great soul and great man to look at the beliefs he thought were correct as a child and young adult, reject them, and become the believer in the rights of every man, woman and child regardless of race, creed or color. And I think Robert Byrd did just that. I am sure there are people on this site that did not at some time think different about things and then when he or she reached the age of reason rejected them.

[pnwmom]

33. Somewhere in the course of more than 70 years of adult life.

More than enough time for real change.

[Nye Bevan]

37. His transformation mirrors that of the United States as a whole

The United States went from slavery, to segregation, to electing a black man as president. Byrd went from being an Exalted Cyclops of the Klu Klux Klan to becoming a respected liberal senator with a 100% NAACP rating.

People like Byrd were products of their times. Washington and Jefferson owned slaves, because that was the done thing in their social circles. For white people like Byrd in North Carolina all those years ago, joining the KKK was probably very common.

And I wouldn't be too offended by the "white niggers" remark. There was no racist intent. After all, this exact phrase appears in the Elvis Costello song "Oliver's Army" and it never even gets bleeped out when this song is played on the radio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBeoS69u67c

[LanternWaste]

40. Amazing Grace, how sweet thou art...

I imagine you'd prefer John Newton never have had his own redemptive moment, nor be celebrated for his life, his struggles or his own dramatic decisions-- and I see no reason why you would even tolerate his... apology whenever you hear it played.

:eyes: