Boycotting BP. Come ON, folks.

[trof]

You're not hurting BP.
You're hurting the guy who owns the station.
And the people who work there.
jeez

[stray cat]

1. Most don't actually care about the workers

or even if it has any effect on BP - people just like to feel self rigthteous

[villager]

3. Goddamn people! Withholding their money from oil companies! What's next!?

Driving less? Riding bicycles!? Carpooling!?

How dare they!

[Dinger]

207. Yeah, What's Up?

Good post villager.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

100. The problem is you are probably going to a station....

....that sells BP and you don't even know it.

[dionysus]

208. it's funny, i though these self-styled comrades were for "the workers".

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

2. Every day you vote with your dollars.

[rpannier]

4. As I said earlier

Dance with the Devil

There will be some other station that will pick up that business and those people can find work there

[William Z. Foster]

70. of course

And the stations can be re-branded.

[GodlessBiker]

5. Innocents are always hurt in boycotts. Many South Africans who ...

opposed apartheid were hurt and lost jobs when their country was boycotted.

[spoony]

19. Yeah I thought that was pretty well understood about boycotts

The people hurt by a boycott have to turn the pressure they're feeling onto the company or organisation at fault instead of the consumers for making choices with their money.

[backscatter712]

32. Indeed. To make an omelet, you've got to break eggs. AND I WANT THIS OMELET. n/t

[petronius]

185. It's pretty easy to say that when it's not your eggs being broken

I think the key problem with this boycott idea is that it puts a minimal amount of pressure on BP at a very high cost to local owners/workers. Far better, as others have pointed out, to work toward an overall reduction in oil/gas usage...

[arcadian]

6. Fuck the guy who owns the station.

That's capitalism. Sink or swim. They need to disassociate themselves from BP, otherwise Fuck em.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. +1

[KonaKane]

36. Really?

You don't think that he or she has mouths to feed and maybe kids to clothe, who put everything they had into buying a franchise and who never in their deepest thoughts wanted to see a spill like this?

You don't think that maybe they don't have the resources to just dump their business right now and do something else, without effectively putting them and their families at risk for being without an income?

You really wanna just "fuck them"? That's the most glib, unfeeling anti-worker filth I've ever heard.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. He's an owner, not a worker

He is also very likely an investment group, not an individual. In either case, the owners have invested hundreds of thousands of dollar at a minimum to have that franchise, they are not workers, but members of the investor class. Do you really see such investors as worthy of the term worker, to the point that those who might not wish to do business with them are speaking 'anti worker filth'? Really?
Why?

[KonaKane]

45. I guess you havent actually known many franchise owners.

Few of them are as filthy rich as you claim. Most of them are deeply invested in their franchise, many times deeply indebted to them.

I would sure call those people workers, as are the ones they hire. Without knowing the particular situation, it sure is bloody calloused to say "fuck them" to people who may well be living from month to month profits. Its very easy for a business to cave, especially these days.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KonaKane]

51. So by your logic,

If a particular factory owner did something really stupid and negligent which resulted in his factory creating a local ecological disaster, all the factory workers are equally responsible and should be tossed out on their ears.

"Fuck them" in the recent vernacular.

Right?

[backscatter712]

54. Tough shit.

Consequences have to be imposed on bad actors somehow. If the workers don't want to be in the crossfire, they need to find another line of work.

[KonaKane]

69. So all the innocent low level workers at Three Mile Island

Were as guilty as the higher ups who screwed up?

Oy, I hope you are never in charge of anything weightier than your fish tank.

[Maru Kitteh]

153. You're equating being a cog @3 Mile Island with being the owner of a BP fueling facility?

That's pathetic. It's too sorry for a fail joke.

[KonaKane]

156. The point is the same.

Do you seriously believe that the average BP franchise owner rubbed their hands together in glee, upon leasing the franchise, and said "This is great! One day one of their platforms will explode and foul the entire Gulf! Awesome!"

Really??

[arcadian]

57. Why the fuck are you defending a corporation?

[KonaKane]

67. I'm defending individual workers who had nothing to do with a spill

Try focusing on the actual issue instead of all the symbology appeasing your bromides.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KonaKane]

78. Calling me an ass won't advance your case, lolo.

And neither will dodging the issue of bashing working people just because you're pissed at the higher ups at BP.

[arcadian]

84. I really don't care about anybody who works at BP

The two women who work at my local BP are complete freaks. One of them is a tea bagger who loves Reagan. Fuck her. How many people do you know work at BP stations? Oh yeah, there is no BP on the BI. You really don't care about workers at BP stations at all, the number of employees is really tiny in the over all picture. You have just manufactured a colossal straw man. Your faux outrage is quite perplexing though. I know people who still boycott Exxon, so clearly boycotts do work. It must burn you up inside knowing that. LOL

[KonaKane]

88. So you know every BP station owner? Wow, you must have a hell of a social network.

Me? I give people the benefit of the doubt until I know differently. I highly doubt that all franchise owners sit up at nights trying to figure out how to screw humanity over.

[dionysus]

210. didn't you know gas station owners are all gazillionaires?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

171. And of course, Exxon doesn't exist any more.

Oh, wait. :rofl:

[KonaKane]

177. LOL

Yeah, they dont exist to the tune of their biggest profits ever.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

179. I like how he consistently uses anecdotal evidence.

"The two BP workers I run into are jerks, so fuck them all!" "I know two people who still boycott Exxon, so it works!" :rofl:

[KonaKane]

181. The flailing hysterics of the ego-driven.

Same old same old.

[arcadian]

189. You mean like your anecdotal evidence about hurting American workers?

What a joke. Many BP stations in the US are foreign owned, foreign operated and hire non-American immigrants. FAIL again on your part.

[dionysus]

214. fuck em! they're run by them damned indians and muslins!!!

keep digging....

[Name removed]

235. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

236. this coming from mister "rules violation!111!!!!11"

:rofl:

[arcadian]

238. Just speaking truth

I know how you have an aversion to it.

:rofl:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

244. And what is a "non-American immigrant"?

Aren't all immigrants, by definition, initially non-American? Unless he means he's cool with those European immigrants, but not those sneaky brown ones, most of whom have long since become US citizens.

[dionysus]

246. those sneaky brown immigrants that own gas stations, didn't you know they're rollin' in Benzes,

rich beyond belief, kicking it with the BP execs? that's how they roll.

;)

[Hannah Bell]

128. no, you're defending a corporation. by your logic, nothing can be done about anything, because

everything is connected and application of any kind of economic pressure hurts someone "innocent".

bp (halliburton, transocean) has destroyed the livelihoods of millions, destroyed the ecology of the entire gulf region, killed untold numbers of wildlife & sealife, killed a number of workers, introduced health risk to clean-up workers, & the effects continue to build with the leak no closer to being fixed.

and you're worried that boycotting BP branded stations might hurt some gas station owner.

I haven't seen you exercise the same sympathy for other folks losing jobs & incomes for other causes here -- just for BP station owners.

[KonaKane]

132. Incorrect. I say go after the guilty instead of the innocent.

And if you have a problem with that, I seriously question your motives.

[Hannah Bell]

173. consumer boycotts are a way for ordinary people to go after the guilty.

you're suggesting we leave it to those who "know best".

i question your motives to the same degree.

[KonaKane]

176. By hitting the innocent?

I'd be careful about questioning my motives by the way...the new rules kind of allude to that if you want to check them out.

[Hannah Bell]

186. KonaKane (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-28-10 10:45 PM

Response to Reply #128


"132. Incorrect. I say go after the guilty instead of the innocent.

And if you have a problem with that, I seriously question your motives."



I merely echoed your own words back to you. Not sure what your game is, but i'm done playing.

People don't want to buy from BP stations. Good luck convincing them that even though the stations are branded BP, BP has nothing to do with them, & it's really some little mom & pop with a spare million for a downpayment running them.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

190. Ouch

Postfail.

See post #132

[Statistical]

216. There are things called franchise contracts and they usually are 10-20 years.

Penalties for breech of contract can run into the millions depending on level of volume at the station.

For vast majority of station owners simply rebranding is not an option (unless BP lets them out of the contract).

Still if they rebrand what good does that really do. BP oil then goes to the rebranded station.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. This is from the Arco website

In my area, BP stations are AM/PM Arco. If I wanted to be a 'worker' owning one, they say the investment the worker needs is:
"The estimated liquid capital required is $700,000 - $1,000,000 based on an estimated investment of $1,787,704- $7,595,178 which includes the costs for real estate."

[KonaKane]

52. Ever heard of a business loan?

What part of the Arco site said that potential station owners must reach in their pockets and produce a cool million of their own cash?

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Did you read what is posted there?

The liquid capital investment means the cash part. The total price on top of that, as is stated, is financed. This is like the down payment, and that has to be, again, liquid capital. The million is not the cost of the business, it is the minimum investment of liquid capital to enter into a franchise agreement. Geez.

[KonaKane]

72. You still avoid the question...where does it say that you cannot get a loan for the franch license?

Nowhere that I can see

[Hannah Bell]

175. yea, they give million dollar loans to "little guys" all the time.

for down payments.

uh-huh.

[KonaKane]

178. It happens more than you think.

Have you ever attempted to get a business loan? Something tells me you havent.

[nyc 4 Biden]

237. i have. and i can tell you there is no way an average joe is getting a loan for $750k.

it's hard enough to get $25k for start up capital.

[arcadian]

60. In a capitalist society, it is not my responsibility to prop up failing businesses

It is the company's responsibility to make me want to buy their product, BP's action doesn't make me want to buy their product. Fuck BP and fuck the owners of BP stations. Hey you know what? Fuck the guy who drives the BP trucks and everybody else who is even remotely involved with BP.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

65. Make sure you don't include yourself in that group.

I'm sure there's something in your life that can be "remotely involved" with BP, too.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KonaKane]

81. Hey, if you can manage to ferret out all the ways you pay into BP

in your every day life, good for you. But wishing misfortune on people who sold their product who had nothing to do with the spill or the decisions that led to the spill, is pretty pathetic.

Are you sure you're on the right site? Because this one supports good hearted working people.

[arcadian]

86. They work under the banner of BP. Fuck them.

[KonaKane]

90. How very conservative of you.

Take an entire group and paste a behavior pattern and belief set on them because of a common association.

[arcadian]

93. Rules violation

[arcadian]

87. Rules violation

[dionysus]

211. .

:spray:

[arcadian]

56. Your post is bullshit.

Anti-workers? Grab a dictionary. We are talking about owners.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

63. And these owners frequently work at their stations.

[Hannah Bell]

192. and just as frequently, they don't. especially when they own 32 & are an investment firm.

[KonaKane]

68. owners can't be workers? I better tell my IWW GMB.

As a free lancer I certainly do own my own business and I work the fuck out of it. You need to pull your head out of 1930s European factory socialism and get with the times.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KonaKane]

82. I can see that. I accept your failure.

It happens. I hope one day you can find it in your heart not to wish ill on good people who work for a living and happen to have franchised into a product that was mismanaged. If anything they are as much a victim as anyone on the coast.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KonaKane]

92. Which makes your rush to damage innocent people even stranger.

.

[William Z. Foster]

83. so...

You apparently would have opposed the Union blockade of the Confederacy, because that prevented the mills in England from getting cotton and that threatened far more jobs than this does.

In fact, the very workers in England threatened and suffering as a result of the blockade supported the Union cause and an end to slavery even though it meant hardship for themselves.

There will be no less work if customers go to other stations, and no fewer jobs.

[KonaKane]

Trapped by your own logic, William.

See, if the BP station owners decided on their own volition to dump their enterprise, I would support that. But here you are seeing people who want to punish the innocent for what the parent product company did.

[arcadian]

91. Do you not understand the concept of freedom of choice.

Me and a vast majority of people on this board choose not to buy BP product. Are just too dense to see that? You are really strange.

[KonaKane]

96. You can choose what you wish. But I'm free to criticize your attempt to punish the innocent.

Why you would choose to do such a thing is quite the question.

[arcadian]

97. Why you defend corporations and owners over the environment is the real question.

[KonaKane]

99. I defend individuals who own franchises and have no involvement in the spill

In other words, the innocents. Why you insist on characterizing them in the same group as those at the top who negligently allowed this disaster, is a question for the ages.

[arcadian]

105. actually they are highly involved in the Gulf of Mexico disaster

This disaster occurred because of demand. These owners of the stations are exploiting the demand to make profit. But just keep justifying it to yourself in your weird way.

[KonaKane]

112. No, the owners are complying with demand. Not creating or exploiting it.

If you really want to make a difference, give people an alternative to oil. Until that, all you are doing is feeding your ego and blowing smoke.

[William Z. Foster]

107. they made money

They made money through their association with BP, otherwise they would not have chosen to place the BP logo on their business. If it turns out that this was a mistake, then it as a mistake. If I were an owner of a station with the BP brand, I would be going after BP. I would not want that BP logo on my business for even an hour after the spill happened. I would probably sell the business, or quit it, whatever the cost rather than to ever be associated with them again.

[KonaKane]

115. And there may well be plenty of them who are now having a problem with BP.

They may want to disassociate with them as much as you do. But in the meantime, they are people, American workers who have to feed and clothe themselves. I'll say it again, your willingness to chuck them in the street because of a specious connection to the spill is the worst anti-worker propaganda I have ever heard.

[William Z. Foster]

140. once again, I have no idea what you are trying to do

I don't know what you are trying to promote or what you are arguing about. Good luck with it, whatever it is.

[arcadian]

141. Yeah, I'm done here too

Pointless arguing with this one.

[William Z. Foster]

150. the argument keeps shifting

Very strange.

[KonaKane]

155. How so, William?

[arcadian]

163. Here is a timely article for you.

I thought Boycotts didn't work?

http://www.nacsonline.com/NACS/News/Daily/Pages/ND0629103.aspx

Frustrated by Boycott, Station Owners Want BP Help

ATLANTA – BP station owners are becoming increasingly frustrated as Americans boycott their stations and are insisting that BP do more to help them win back their customers, such as by reducing gasoline prices, the Associated Press reports.

In recent weeks, BP station owners from Georgia to Illinois report that sales have dropped as much as 40 percent. Station owners and BP gas distributors told BP officials last week that they "need a break" on gas prices and want help paying for more advertising aimed at tourists, according to John Kleine, executive director of the independent BP Amoco Marketers Association. They also have requested more frequent meetings with BP officials.

"They have got to be more competitive on their fuel costs to the retailers so we can be competitive on the street...and bring back customers that we've lost," said Bob Juckniess, whose sales have dropped 20 percent at some of his 10 BP-branded stations in the Chicago area.


more

....................

Serious okole, just give up now, you are making an okole out of yourself

[KonaKane]

166. Do you think that boycott will be sustained long enough to make a difference?

Because I can almost guarantee it will not. As most boycotts end up.

[arcadian]

170. One sentence you say boycotts hurt the little workers

The next you say boycotts are ineffective. Which is it, keiki?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

172. Ineffective against the people in charge, but also hurts the little workers.

[Name removed]

180. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcadian]

187. Rules violation

[petronius]

188. That article seems to say that the boycott is having exactly the effect that those

who don't favor a boycott said it would: hurting gas station owners without really touching BP itself.

The biggest impact for BP retailers comes not from lost gas sales but convenience store business, said NACS spokesperson Jeff Lenard. On the other hand, BP earns its income from exploring and producing oil all over the world, including the North Sea, Gulf of Mexico, and Egypt.

"The corner store is the face of BP, but by no means how BP gets its money," Lenard said.

[Hannah Bell]

194. like the nacs spokesperson is going to say something different?

Tension is mounting between BP and the neighborhood retailers that sell its gasoline. As more Americans shun BP gasoline as a form of protest over the Gulf oil spill, station owners are insisting BP do more to help them convince motorists that such boycotts mostly hurt independently owned businesses, not the British oil giant.

To win back customers, THEY'D LIKE THE COMPANY'S HELP IN REDUCING THE PRICE AT THE PUMP.

BP owns just a fraction of the more than 11,000 stations across the U.S. that sell its fuel under the BP, Amoco and ARCO banners. Most are owned by local businessmen WHOSE PRIMARY CONNECTION TO THE OIL COMPANY IS THE LOGO AND A CONTRACT TO BUY GASOLINE.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100627/ap_on_bi_ge/us_oil_spill_bp_at_the_pump

Pressuring the stations puts pressure on BP.

The station owners make their money off sundries cause BP gets most of the profit from the gas.


Bob Juckniess, owns 10 stations, he's another one of those "little guys".

But that's not all he owns. He owns Shell stations, too. And owns this corporation, a convenience/gas station management company - he manages/staffs the things for all those "little" owners too busy to manage/staff their own.

Search ResultsFastest Growing Companies: RWJ Cos. Inc. | Energy & Utilities ...
9599 N. Meridian St. Indianapolis 46260 President: Robert W. Juckniess [phone] Description: gasoline, convenience store management companyFor those ...
Show map of 9599 N Meridian St, Indianapolis, IN 46260

www.allbusiness.com/energy-utilities/.../10575887-1.html - Cached - SimilarRWJ Companies Honored in Indy | North America > United States from ...
INDIANAPOLIS -- Convenience store/petroleum marketer RWJ Companies Inc. was named one of Indiana's "Fastest Growing Private Companies of 2005" by The ...
www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/food.../4487114-1.html - Cached - Similar

So he'll be fine. No worries with that "little guy".

[KonaKane]

143. You didn't on your own thread, either.

You seem to be permanently, and wantonly, confused.

Good luck with that.

[William Z. Foster]

103. punish?

People refusing to buy a product is punishing the owners?

That is one is the strangest arguments I have ever heard. People choose to go into business, and there are risks inherent in that. I would advise any business owner against an arrangement with a corporation like this for this very reason. They were convinced that the BP logo would make them money. That is the risk they took. If it turns out that they made the wrong decision - a decision based on making the most money for themselves through a clever and strategic alliance with a corporate "friend" - then they are the ones who took that risk.

[KonaKane]

104. And how are they responsible for the spill, again?

I'm still not getting that part.

[arcadian]

108. If there wasn't such a demand for oil the disaster would not have happened

Cute how you call it a "spill". Demand has driven the companies to find more and more oil in less than accessible locations such as the Deep Water drilling site. The owners of the BP stations count on the demand in order to do business. Therefore they are directly involved.

[KonaKane]

116. then go after the demand. Not those who cater to the demand.

your efforts are misplaced.

[William Z. Foster]

110. BP made them money

What do you not understand about this? If I ran a farm supply company, and chose to put the Monsanto logo on my business, that would be my mistake then when Monsanto screwed up and people boycotted me.

These people chose to associate themselves with BP. They hoped to make money doing that. No one forced them to be associated with BP. Being associated with BP turns out to have been a bad decision.

So, no, they are not responsible for the spill. I never said they were. But nor were they responsible for the good will that they benefited from by having the BP logo on their station. They took a business risk. They hoped the BP logo would benefit them - I am sure that it did benefit them - and it now turns out that it is a liability.

[KonaKane]

118. So you want to throw innocents under the bus because of what the head company did?

That makes no sense whatsoever and it is the worst slap at working people that I have ever seen. You should be ashamed.

[arcadian]

119. You just said boycotts weren't effective.

Your argument has fallen apart. You don't know what to think. Keiki.

[KonaKane]

121. for the most part, they arent.

History will back me up on that.

[arcadian]

124. Yeah that bus boycott in Alabama had little effect on history

:eyes:

[KonaKane]

127. Read the "for the most part" again.

And your attempt to align the civil rights movement with the BP disaster is amusing.

[arcadian]

133. LOL I countered your argument and shot it down.

I never mentioned civil rights, you did.

[KonaKane]

136. You are free to think that.

No matter what the reality is.

[William Z. Foster]

129. this is hilarious

No jobs will be lost. The same amount of work will still be needed in every area.

I thought it was the station owners you were concerned with?

I thought you said boycotts were not effective?

[KonaKane]

134. I meant everything I said. Boycotts are largely ineffective.

Try to quote me more honestly in the future, OK William?

[arcadian]

138. Lets see some numbers for that.

I'm sure you have them.

[KonaKane]

142. Here is a compelling article on why the BP boycott would be ineffective...

If you are so inclined (which I doubt, but what the hell)

http://mobile.orlandosentinel.com/inf/infomo?view=webarticle&feed:a=sentinel_1min&feed:c=topstories&feed:i=54191259&nopaging=1

[arcadian]

148. That article is a fucking joke.

"Over the past few years, BP has sold off its corporate stores to people like Russ Scaramella.

The Atlanta-based businessman bought 32 Orlando-area BP ampm stations stretching from Sanford south to ChampionsGate just one month before the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded and sank."

:nopity:

He owns 32 stations? Fuck that guy, he ain't hurting. Your willingness to support these people is a joke.

[KonaKane]

154. These people? That was one person.

I highly doubt the average BP franchise owner has 32 stores.

[Hannah Bell]

191. he's a little mom & poppy guy, everyone can buy 32 stations at $700K a pop in down-payments.

that's only 22.4 million.

he probably took out a start-up loan from his credit union.

[arcadian]

159. LOL!!!! Here is an article about the BP owner being so hurt by the botcott

What a fucking joke. Russell Scaramella who is mentioned in your little article:

http://www.azcentral.com/style/hfe/coolhomes/articles/2003/05/10/20030510coolhome10.html

Three great things about Russ and Lori Scaramella's Glendale home.

1) Backyard oasis: Multi-tiered, with eight separate seating areas and a large L-shaped dive pool, the Scaramella back yard is the kind of place to settle in and spend some time. The major landscaping, including several large birds of paradise (tropical, not Mexican) and graceful bottle palms, has been in for two decades, giving the outdoor spaces a finished look.

2) Patio dining for 10: One of the outdoor seating areas has a full-length dining table. This patio space is perfect to showcase one of Arizona's trademark features, the outdoor dinner party. But the couple says it's a great place to have dinner any day.

3) Breakfast-bar remodel: When they bought the home two years ago, the area off the kitchen had a standard corner breakfast table and one door to the dining room beyond. The remodeled space has two dramatic arches and a counter-height table. It's functional - there are four young children - and beautiful.

Vital statistics

OWNERS: Russ and Lori Scaramella.

LOCATION: Glendale.

SQUARE FOOTAGE: 4,100 main house, 800 guesthouse.

FEATURES: Four bedrooms, five baths, home office, game room, formal dining room, sunken formal living room with two-sided fireplace into family room. Four sets of French doors open onto back yard with L-shaped dive pool, in-ground spa under a vine-covered arbor, elevated ramada patio area. Just outside the detached backyard guesthouse there's an outdoor bar with drink refrigerator.

[KonaKane]

161. Again, one person out of all the franchise owners?

Wow, that is really something. When you can show me they all are like that, financially, you'll have a point.

[Hannah Bell]

193. it's from your article. the article you posted that was so compelling.

now you say it's not representative.

whatever.

[SidDithers]

203. If you buy any oil product at all...

you're buying BP. Oil is fungible.

Sid

[William Z. Foster]

232. so was cotton

That did not stop the Abolitionists from boycotting cotton. Did that bring slavery down? Maybe not, but it certainly did not harm the Abolition effort. Did that boycott and subsequent embargo harm innocent parties? Yes, particularly textile mill workers in England. Yet those textile mill workers, the most vulnerable, supported whatever it took to end slavery even if it meant they were out of work. Were innocent Mom and Pop merchants harmed? No doubt. But there was a greater cause, and obviously when any power - be it the slave power here before Emancipation or the oil companies today - has such a stranglehold on society it is impossible to eliminate that stranglehold without some dislocation and hardship for innocent people. That is never a legitimate reason to oppose those who are fighting for social justice.

BP must think their logo in worth something. They have invested a ton of money into it.

In any case, boycotting BP - talking about it - serves the purpose of keeping people's attention focused. Discouraging and frustrating people, which is the purpose of the anti-boycott posts, serves to protect corporations.

I f talking about of a boycott of the BP brand name is so futile and useless, then why would talking against it be worth anyone's time and effort? There is a contradiction there. BP is spending a lot of money protecting the brand name, and some people here are spending a lot of time and thought on that - just as though it did in fact matter.

[William Z. Foster]

98. understood

By your logic no action could ever be taken against any corporation ever. We couldn't boycott a food product, because that would hurt grocery stores. We couldn't boycott any franchise - it would hurt the owners. We could not boycott an automobile - that would hurt the dealers. We can't really even protest war - that would harm the arms supply company owners.

No, you are the one trapped by your own logic, I am afraid.

[KonaKane]

101. Where did I say you couldn't boycott, William?

that's right, nowhere. You are free to boycott to your hearts content. And I am free to call that an impossible, and misguided, task in the current issue.

[arcadian]

102. What KonaKeiki doesn't understand is that a boycott is a market decision.

Free market means people are free to decide what it is they wish to buy.

[KonaKane]

106. Sure you are free to do that. As misguided and ineffective as it will be.

That's the point, lolo.

[arcadian]

109. FAIL -Boycotts are very effective

Look at how many people still boycott Exxon.

[KonaKane]

111. they are actually rarely effective.

And I wish that werent true, but it is. Better research the history of modern boycotts.

[arcadian]

114. Yeah right. Like I'm sure you have.

If they are not effective then why are you so vehemently opposed to the BP boycott? LOL caught in your own logic trap.

[KonaKane]

120. You can boycott to your heart's content. And it will affect little.

If you want to seriously address this issue, do two things....

* Make sure that the higher ups in BP are brought to account for their actions, and that the company financialy pays its part for everything it has created.

* Lean on government to promote CHOICES in new energy forms, so we can kick the likes of BP to the curb.


Everything short of that is nothing but misguided anger and ego gratification.

[arcadian]

122. Kick BP to the curb?

But won't that displace a lot jobs for the little people? I thought you were against that.

[KonaKane]

123. Not if they have options because of new technologies.

[arcadian]

130. That doesn't even make any sense.

[KonaKane]

137. why?

Please explain.

[Hannah Bell]

182. they profit for the same reasons the parent does, & they lose for the same reasons.

that's capitalism, baby.

if people don't like it, maybe they should try a different system.

we're always being told to vote with our dollars, but seems those same folks don't like it if it actually hurts anyone who has money.

as opposed to hurting people without money, which is always a-ok.

[KonaKane]

184. That's the weirdest retardation of logic I have ever witnessed.

The little owners profit from the neglect and mismanagement of the upper management?

Wow. Who would have thunk it!

[Fire1]

46. Pretty much. n/t

[fishwax]

7. By shopping at BP I'm hurting the guy who owns the other station. And the people who work there.

[City Lights]

21. !

:thumbsup:

[William Z. Foster]

85. bingo

Of course.

The arguments being used against boycotting BP are some of the most transparently illogical I have ever seen.

Why are people defending corporations, and going to so much trouble to do that? Do they own stock? Work for the corporation in public relations? Or do they just so strongly identify with the ruling class that they are independently and spontaneously operating as unpaid public realtions flacks for the corporations?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

227. Your post, and fishwax's, WIN the thread.

:applause:

[Lucian]

126. Oh snap!

[Critters2]

220. I've tried to point this out to people.

The problem with this argument is that it's logical. Apparently.

[KamaAina]

8. Well, you're the one on the ground down there.

We really, really want to support you and the rest of the Gulf Coast. What would you suggest we do?

[trof]

12. I don't think there's much any ONE can do.

This thing is truly overwhelming.
MAYBE BP can plug it with the blocking wells.
MAYBE.

We don't know.
We're just hoping for the best.
Hope is a thin thread down here.

Sunday was a gulf states 'Day of Prayer' for god to stop the gusher.
:rofl:
Give me a fucking break.
:eyes:

[KamaAina]

16. Didn't god start it in the first place?

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Well, it's not like anybody's buying less gas.

I guess the guy at the other gas station is probably benefitting.

[emilyg]

10. I will not boycott.

[Selatius]

11. If people really wanted to hurt BP, they would stop driving cars for 24 hours.

That would send a downward spike through the gas price markets like no other.

[petronius]

17. As long as they didn't replace that day's trips with increased travel on another day

As posters above have suggested, it's smarter to work toward using less oil in general rather than dumping all of our ire on the BP station owners/workers without any meaningful message being sent to the industry as a whole...

[davidpdx]

195. The problem is it would have to be a sustained drop for a period of more then one day

to have any effect. I have no problem with boycotts if that's what people decide to do. The only one cog in that is that BP supplies gas to other gas stations as well without knowledge of the consumer. If it that weren't the case, a boycott would be more effective.

I should add I live overseas and therefore don't buy my gas from any of the US gas stations except when I visit home.

[marions ghost]

222. +1

as much as possible, curtail driving. Everybody knows when they're driving somewhere that they could cut out, or double up, or whatever.

Cut out all unnecessary driving. More effective in sending a message than just boycotting BP, although I can't argue with the urge to send them a message by boycotting their stations. It isn't really hurting them so much, but it does send a message.

But there is a BIGGER message we could be sending...to all the oil companies.

[XemaSab]

13. You can't tell me that BP isn't making a cent off of it somewhere

I have never spent a dime at an Exxon station, and I will never spend a dime at a BP station.

[Hannah Bell]

196. of course they are:

Tension is mounting between BP and the neighborhood retailers that sell its gasoline. As more Americans shun BP gasoline as a form of protest over the Gulf oil spill, station owners are insisting BP do more to help them convince motorists that such boycotts mostly hurt independently owned businesses, not the British oil giant.

To win back customers, THEY'D LIKE THE COMPANY'S HELP IN REDUCING THE PRICE AT THE PUMP.

BP owns just a fraction of the more than 11,000 stations across the U.S. that sell its fuel under the BP, Amoco and ARCO banners. Most are owned by local businessmen WHOSE PRIMARY CONNECTION TO THE OIL COMPANY IS THE LOGO AND A CONTRACT TO BUY GASOLINE.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100627/ap_on_bi_ge/us_oil_spill_bp_at_the_pump


BP makes their money on the gasoline, the owners make their money on the overpriced sundries.

Station owners these days typically own multiple stations because it's hard to make a killing on over-priced sundries.

[backscatter712]

197. DING-DING-DING!!! That's a big part of why this boycott is working!

BP's brand name has been severely damaged, so the franchisees are now demanding that BP help them out.

BP has to spend money directly to help out their franchisees, or the franchisees will dump BP, which will also hit them right in the wallet!

So here's the thing. You say the local gas-station owners are suffering? GOOD! when they suffer, they put pressure on BP!

KEEP BOYCOTTING!

[Hannah Bell]

199. i forsee lawsuits from owners.

[backscatter712]

202. And some of those "mom & pop" owners are big corporations who have big lawyers.

You cause problems with the revenue stream of a corporation that owns several hundred gas stations, you're going to hear from their legal team.

The gas-stations absolutely should sue BP for loss of revenue because of damage to brand and reputation.

[TexasObserver]

15. Yes, boycott BP. If you don't understand why, take some time to find out.

[nashville_brook]

18. for me it's not a boycott -- i just can't do it.

[merh]

20. And who wants to cause financial harm to BP, they need to have

plenty of money for a very long time so that they can keep paying for the cleanup and the claims of those they have harmed.

[William Z. Foster]

225. there we go

I have an idea. All of us should probably only buy from BP. That way they will have a lot of money. They need to have plenty of money for a very long time. You know, for the cleanup and for the claims of those they have harmed.

Better yet - let's start taking up a collection. We can raise money to give to BP. You know, for the cleanup and for the claims of those they have harmed.

Or we could have Congress pass a trillion dollar bailout for them. You know, for the cleanup and for the claims of those they have harmed.

[LanternWaste]

22. Sometimes a statement of intent or a declaration of belief are just that

You can of course name any large, contemporary boycott that did not affect, whether directly or indirectly the rank and file American worker in that industry? Rhetorical question of course, point being...

Sometimes a statement of intent or a declaration of belief are just that. And sometimes, achieving a greater good may result in some hardship.

sheesh.

[lynne]

23. Which is why I NEVER boycott, it's the little guy who gets hurt. eom

[KonaKane]

160. If people really wanted to make a difference,

they would be pushing relentlessly for government investment in research and development of alternative and sustainable energy sources.

But as you can see, they are more than happy to react instead of respond, and at the wrong people.

[classof56]

24. I boycotted Exxon after the Valdez disaster.

To this day, I think I've only patronized one of their stations, but as I'm sure everyone knows, Exxon is still in business and in fact I think I now see Exxon Mobile signs. So much for my boycott! But I did and still do feel pretty good about having done so. There are no BP stations where I live, so my choice is simple.

[Swamp Rat]

30. I still do

Now it's easy since I gave up driving a car. :)

[KonaKane]

167. Yet, Exxon posted the biggest profits in their history just recently.

[Swamp Rat]

201. And, I did not contribute to those "biggest profits in their history just recently."

:)

[Curmudgeoness]

25. Sorry, but this is just the way it has to be. However, I would also

like to know other stations that buy BP gas. To hear the BP station owners talk, they are not the only places where gas from BP is sold, they are the only VISIBLE ones. So who else is using BP gas? And sorry, I will also not buy gas there.

[backscatter712]

37. Start with the station brands that have deals with BP.

Castrol, Arco, Amoco, Aral, am/pm, and Wild Bean Cafe.

Boycott those, and you've got most of the brands where BP can get a premium selling their gas.

Force BP to put more of their gas on the wholesale market (where the boycott detractors say it always goes), and they're forced to cut prices and reduce their profit margin.

The boycott can hurt BP, and is hurting BP.

[Curmudgeoness]

50. Thanks for the info on other BP gas sources. nt

[backscatter712]

58. Oh, Safeway grocery stores with attached gas stations also use BP gas.

Don't buy your gas at Safeway!

[SidDithers]

204. Go even further back...

which refineries refine BP oil into gas?

Answer: all of them.

Sid

[L0oniX]

26. Fuck that. I will never buy anything from fucking BP ever again.

Only (losers) those with no credit cards go into those fucking places anyway. Why the fuck would you want to wait in line while some asshole decides what lotto bull shit they are going to buy ...while they hold a case of beer and feed their kids Twinkies.

Get a fucking clue: They (BP) are mass murderers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxDf-KkMCKQ&sns=em

http://www.floridaoilspilllaw.com/dead-oil-coated-baby-dolphin-carried-to-shore-by-tourist-photos-dolphin-was-crying-as-people-oil-off-coast-guard-unclear-on-cause-of-death/comment-page-2#comment-1797

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/gulf_oil_spill/oiled-dolphin-found-near-ft-pickens

Yea ...watch that and then post your shit about BP ...fucking heartless

[Maru Kitteh]

95. +1 !

[fatbuckel]

241. X 20 billion

[City Lights]

27. The BP near me seems to be doing just fine.

I typically see the same number of vehicles there now as I did before. I can't really say I'm boycotting BP now because I've been buying my gas from Citgo for years. I can't remember the last time I stopped at a BP station for anything.

[KonaKane]

28. Boycotting BP is sort of like what Bush did with Iraq

It was an angry, mindless lashing out at the wrong thing that was effectivelly useless in the end.

A boycott has to be largely complied with to be effective. Sorry but thats just not going to happen with BP. Why? Because the sonsabitches have something we too badly need every day - oil. A boycott sounds good, and may give you some momentary satisfaction as you cruise by that BP station and don't get your gas there, but in the long run, it won't matter in the least.

Know what would be better than a boycott? Options. What can we replace oil with? See until we have that, big oil has us by the short hairs. Take our minds and our resources and put them to OPTIONS, not angry, visceral boycotts.

[arcadian]

76. LOL that's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

Do you own stock in BP? You must. :rofl:

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcadian]

117. Looks like it

argument: "Don't boycott BP you are hurting the little guy! Boycotts aren't effective by the way."

:rofl:

That's some crazy talk right there.

[KonaKane]

146. Rules violation.

as you would say....

[backscatter712]

162. Must've touched a nerve...

[KonaKane]

164. Just playing the same game. Good for the goose, and all that

[KonaKane]

125. You mean more like the truth.

Lashing out stupidly and harming the wrong people. Thats exactly what Bush did. Right?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

135. Finding alternatives to oil is idiotic?

Do you really think we can go without oil without any alternatives in place?

[KonaKane]

139. Amazing how these same people end up taking BP's side, isnt it.

give em enough rope...

[Name removed]

144. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

29. KILL BP!!!

[backscatter712]

31. Not true.

BP gets larger profits from selling gas to BP-branded stations (as well as Arco, Safeway, am/pm and others that use BP gas.) If they're forced to sell the same gas wholesale, they have to cut their prices and take a lower margin.

Also, when you go into a BP-branded gas station, BP gets a 5% cut of all the revenue from the candy bars, slurpees & such that customers buy there.

The boycott will cut into BP's profits considerably.

Besides, the gas-station owners aren't necessarily "moms & pops" - they're corporations that might own dozens or hundreds of stations.

Also note that stations can and will rebrand to a different oil company's gas. A few have already done so in the face of the boycott.

[fishwax]

35. I think it's closer to 10%, actually

In addition to the royalty, which is around 5%, BP also gets about 5.5% for the advertising and promotion fee. (Franchises can get a partial rebate of that if they participate in various promotions.)

[JanMichael]

33. Doesn't matter: like Exxon, it's emotional. If you want to go gas up there

fine.

However, I can't stand there under that sign and put gas in the car. Do I know about where all the gas comes from? Yes. Do I care right now? No. It's emotional. Can't do it, just like my wife can't wear diamonds.

Just. Can't. Do. It.

[Canuckistanian]

34. So, 0% of the sales of BP gas stations actually go to BP?

I imagine BP is just letting some nice people use their logo to help them sell gas?

Get real.

[Curmudgeoness]

38. A station owner said that he only makes a few cents a gallon.

At the price of gas, it is obvious that BP is making the bulk of the money.

[Canuckistanian]

55. I know. They make their money on the auxilliary sales

That $5 jug of antifreeze or the $7 quart of oil. Oh, and the lucrative candy bar, soft drink and chip sales.

They usually have worse prices than a 7-11.

And a good portion of that gravy goes straight to BP headquarters in Houston (or wherever it is in Texas).

Unprofitable businesses don't hang around long. But the profitable ones stay, and the profits go to whoever's name is on that sign out front.

[KonaKane]

131. Dont tell the pitchfork and torch crowd here that, they want blood.

they think the individual station owners are the ones who should take the brunt of the consequence.

[Hannah Bell]

200. yes.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100627/ap_on_bi_ge/us_oil_spill_bp_at_the_pump

Tension is mounting between BP and the neighborhood retailers that sell its gasoline. As more Americans shun BP gasoline as a form of protest over the Gulf oil spill, station owners are insisting BP do more to help them convince motorists that such boycotts mostly hurt independently owned businesses, not the British oil giant.

To win back customers, they'd like the company's help in reducing the price at the pump.

BP owns just a fraction of the more than 11,000 stations across the U.S. that sell its fuel under the BP, Amoco and ARCO banners. Most are owned by local businessmen whose primary connection to the oil company is the logo and a CONTRACT TO BUY GASOLINE.


Station operators don't make their money on the gas BECAUSE BP GETS THAT. They get the majority of the money all along the distribution chain, down to the stations.

[last_texas_dem]

39. Luckily, this is one small choice I don't have to make

BP stations don't seem to exist in my little corner of the world. They seem to be a pretty common sight anytime I travel some distance, but for whatever reason, they don't seem to have "made it" to Southeast TX.

[taterguy]

40. So why is BP taking out ads criticizing the boycott?

I heard one on the radio the other day.

They're smart folks.

They wouldn't bother if it wasn't hurting them.

I'm sure they appreciate you doing their work for them.

[backscatter712]

44. Indeed. Ads aren't cheap - an advertising campaign costs millions of dollars.

If they're willing to spend that much money fighting the boycott, imagine how much the boycott is costing the bastards!

[William Z. Foster]

113. yes

But here is an even more poignant question - why are people making the exact same arguments here against the boycott that BP is?

[KansasVoter]

41. I have to help some owner. I choose to help the non-BP station.

[Critters2]

221. +! nt

[Curmudgeoness]

48. If you want to help stations, without profit to BP, stop and buy coffee

or chips or candy or whatever else they sell. The station owners don't make money on the gas anyways, they make it on the other products that they sell in their stores. This is the best solution I can come up with if you are really concerned for the little guy who has the stations/stores.

[TexasObserver]

61. BP does make money from all sales at such centers.

Tell BP to drop the cost of gasoline to their service centers by 50 cents a gallon, and pass that savings through to consumers. They'll get business up. You see, that's the free market way to compete. If your company has made a mess, give the consumers a big break and watch them come back.

There is no rational reason not to boycott BP centers.

[backscatter712]

64. BP gets a piece of the convenience store sales.

You buy coffee, twinkies or slurpies at a BP gas station, BP gets a cut.

Sorry, but I'm not voluntarily giving BP my money.

[Canuckistanian]

145. Wrong.

That's EXACTLY how BP makes it's money. The "store" part of the business.

Buy their gas, but NOTHING else.

[HipChick]

49. Since its all bought on an international market...

It's likely the Shell station has BP oil...at least there will no lines at the actual BP station

[backscatter712]

165. BP makes more money selling their gas at BP stations.

What, you think BP lets gas stations put its logo on them just for fun?

No. One way to distribute gas is wholesale, through the shared market. Then there's the exclusive channels for franchisees, which have a greater profit margin for BP.

Yes, Virginia, taking your business elsewhere does hurt BP.

[H2O Man]

53. Respectfully disagree.

Boycotts will generally do a degree of harm to some innocent people. However, that is not a good reason to dismiss a proposed or on-going boycott. When people such as Martin Luther King, Jr., advocating boycotting certain businesses, even though some decent people were impacted negatively, it was still a good thing.

[Colonel Bat Guano]

62. This boycott will only hurt the little guy...

The idea of boycotting BP stations has been debunked by SP Times, and I think by Rachel Maddow. The point is that BP supplies gasoline to other branded stations, and the BP branded stations take gasoline from other suppliers. If you boycott BP stations, you are not hurting the BP corporation AT ALL. But you will be hurting individual small business owners who bought a BP franchise.

Believe me, BP will still sell the fuel somewhere (like, to our military). They don't give a fuck if the business owners die. I'd bet that BP still makes a buck on it somehow (say, by hitting the dying business owners with whatever fees are connected with the BP identity, even if the business is crashing due to boycotts).

Think about it. Boycotting BP stations will not hurt the big BP, but it will kill the guys running the stations. A lot of them make zip on gas, and really make their bucks on selling convenience store items.

If the boycotts happen on stations, you will ultimately have zero effect on BP, but you will push small business owners into bankruptcy. Your call, DU.

[William Z. Foster]

79. that argument

First of all, BP has millions invested in promoting and polishing their brand name. It is foolish to say that boycotting the brand name does them no harm.

There are no corporations that do not have employees and small shareholders. By your logic we could never fight back against any corporation for fear of hurting the little guy.

BP, and other corporations, remaining in business and operating unfettered is what is hurting ALL of the people.

[arcadian]

80. That is bullshit

Then really what is the point of having a BP station with a BP logo? If what you were saying were true there would be all generic stations throughout the US with no logo. But what you are saying is not true.

[KonaKane]

147. Punishing someone who bought into a business is sensible?

Long before that business did anything that would have created doubt in a franchise client?

Wow, that's some mean psychic ability there, William. Are most franchise owners like that?

[William Z. Foster]

66. the BP brand

BP has spent a fortune on establishing and burnishing the brand. BP thinks the brand name is valuable.

There is no component of the military-industrial complex that does not have "civilian hostages" in the form of employees and small share holders. As soon as anyone suggests interfering with corporations at all, those innocent people are cited by defenders and apologists for the corporations as a reason not to go after the corporations - as if the corporations care about employees and small shareholders. If BP went under, all of those people would be screwed Enron style. Best we boycott now and give those people a chance to get out so they don't get pulled under along with BP.

No jobs or stations will disappear. The stations will be re-branded, and the work will move elsewhere. The same amount of work will still be needed, and the same amount of fuel.

[William Z. Foster]

77. don't boycott the buses in Montgomery!

What about the employees of the bus line?

Do you know who pressured the British government not to recognize the Confederacy? The workers in the textile mills in England whose jobs were threatened by the Union blockade of cotton.

The Montgomery Bus Boycott a year-long protest in Montgomery, Alabama, that galvanized the American Civil Rights Movement and led to a 1956 decision by the Supreme Court of the United States declaring segregated seating on buses unconstitutional.

In December 1955, 42,000 black residents of Montgomery began a year-long boycott of city buses ( Montgomery Bus Boycott ) to protest racially segregated seating. After 381 days of taking taxis, carpooling, and walking the hostile streets of Montgomery, African Americans eventually won their fight to desegregate seating on public buses, not only in Montgomery, but throughout the United States.

The protest was first organized by the Women's Political Council as a one-day boycott to coincide with the trial of Rosa Parks, who had been arrested on December 1, 1955, for refusing to give up her seat to a white man on a segregated Montgomery bus. By the next morning, the council, led by JoAnn Robinson, had printed 52,000 fliers asking Montgomery blacks to stay off public buses on December 5, the day of the trial. Meanwhile, labor activist E. D. Nixon, who had bailed Parks out of jail, notified Ralph Abernathy, minister of the First Baptist Church, and Martin Luther King Jr., the new minister at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church, of Parks's arrest. A group of about 50 black leaders and one white minister, Robert Graetz, gathered in the basement of King's church to endorse the boycott and begin planning a massive rally for the evening of the trial. Graetz offered his support from the pulpit of his predominantly white Lutheran church. The Montgomery Chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), which had been looking for a test case for segregation, began preparing for the legal challenge.

more...

http://www.africanaonline.com/montgomery.htm

By July 1862 the supply of raw cotton to Britain had dwindled to one third of its pre-war level. Three quarters of the cotton mill workers were unemployed or on short time, and charity and the dole could not ward off hardship and restiveness in many Lancashire working class districts. The Chancellor of the Exchequor, Willian E Gladstone, feared there would be an outbreak of rioting unless something was done to relieve the distress. Gladstone favoured a British intevention to stop the war, thus improving the flow of cotton across the Atlantic.

Despite the hardships however, rather surprisingly, the attitute of British textile workers was not in general opposed to the conflict. An American Minister, Charles Adams, writing in December 1862, commented that whilst "the great body of the aristocracy and commercial classes are anxious to see the United States go to pieces", there was still a lot of sympathy among the middle and lower classes towards the struggle against slavery. There were, it must be admitted, a few demonstrations by the working classes but these seem to be aimed more at the British Government for the poverty and unemployment being suffered rather then against the Americans themselves. Support for the Union came also from leading radicals like Karl Marx and John Bright who saw the conflict as a Class struggle, and from Liberal interlectuals who saw the Southern states as a "power of evil" and an "enemy of progress".

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070722104033AAYJUHM

In Britain, the textile industry had come to a virtual standstill due to the Union blockade of the South’s cotton exports. Yet, the working people of Britain rebuffed the attempts of demagogues to direct their anger against the North.

Guelzo writes: "Between January and March 1863, a series of mass demonstrations in Manchester and London cheered Lincoln and his proclamation. Lincoln replied that they would have the 'admiration, esteem and the most reciprocal feelings of friendship among the American people'"

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/linc-j02.shtml

[KonaKane]

149. Don't post a pertinent analogy!

Oh god, by all means no!

[William Z. Foster]

152. now this is controversial?

Good grief.

[KonaKane]

157. Not controversial. Wildly irrelevent.

[Catherina]

209. +1 n/t

[backscatter712]

168. Wow, the astroturf's coming on thick now. n/t

[KonaKane]

169. Anyone who disagrees with you is "astroturfing"?

Wow. The things you learn here.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

174. Also, anybody who says anything remotely positive about Obama is a paid DLC shill.

:rofl:

[KonaKane]

183. *face palm* shit! Why didn't anyone tell me??

[time_has_come]

198. +1. Yeah, it makes no sense. It solves nothing, helps nothing, a waste of time. n/t

[William Z. Foster]

231. give up, roll over, die

Nothing can work, there is no hope, you cannot change anything, it is all futile, we have no power, we should all just shut up.

[tjwash]

205. What? All of a sudden the invisible hand of the free market isn't the coolest thing ever created?

I'll wager you ever single one of these jagoffs that owns an arco or any other BP-owned gas station, until about 3 months ago, would yammer on forever about paying too much in taxes, how alternative and clean energy was for sissies, and that that energy restrictions were just too much and needed to be abolished immediately. You know...let them just have at it and do whatever the fuck they want to do, and the invisible hand would sort everything out.

Fuck them...they are getting everything that they asked for.

[backscatter712]

206. Agreed. Zero sympathy for them.

Their suffering eventually becomes BP's suffering, through damage to brand, through pressure on BP to spend money to help them, through BP being forced to spend money on advertising campaigns to counter the boycott, and through forcing BP to sell their gas for a smaller profit margin due to price cuts and selling on other markets.

It's costing them. It's hurting them, and they're going apeshit right now.

Don't sweat the collateral damage. The Montgomery bus boycott likely resulted in bus drivers being laid off - does that mean it wasn't worth it? The South Africa boycott caused economic hardship for countless South Africans, but it helped end apartheid.

The BP boycott must continue.

[Statistical]

223. "Don't sweat the collateral damage."

The issue is the ratio of collateral damage to strategic damage.

By your "logic" we should just bomb towns in Afghanistan flat. Don't say we are already doing that I am talking WWII style rolling artillery barrages so nothing larger than an insect is left alive. Right. I mean if there is a single terrorist in the town we are guaranteed he/she will be killed.

"Don't sweat the collateral damage." :(

BP will sell more oil in 2010 than it did in 2009. BP will sell more oil in 2011 than it did in 2010.
BP will have higher revenue in 2010 than it did in 2009. BP will have higher revenue in 2011 than it did in 2009.

The only thing that will change that is reduced consumption of oil (and oil products).

[MellowDem]

212. If that's the case...

then aren't ALL gas station owners like that? How is going to other gas stations doing any good in that case? Not to mention the people who work for these franchises suffer the most.

BP could go out of the gas station business and it would barely make a dent in their profits. They have even considered getting completely out of the gas station business. Hence franchising almost all of their stations.

[MellowDem]

213. The boycott is for their own peace of mind I guess...

but it's not an effective boycott. They just refuse to see that. They're still going to gas stations though. And that's the real problem.

[backscatter712]

219. No, it's effective. BP's been taking a hit.

The gas stations are all complaining to BP, forcing them to offer discounts, run ads spend a lot of money to counter the boycott.

It's hurting BP itself, that's the point.

[MellowDem]

226. Taking a hit from a bong perhaps...

The gas stations can complain, but I doubt BP will do anything to help them. Why should they? They make almost none of their profit from gas stations. That article on the effect of the boycott said BP wasn't feeling it at all, while the only thing the boycott was effecting was evil franchise owners (many on here have demonized them) and their low-wage workers.

If you want to hurt BP, the best thing you can hope for is that this spill continues on and on and on. Any boycott of their gas stations will mainly impact the franchise owners and the workers there, if it even effects BP at all, and will be like a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of the oil spill.

Is anyone boycotting Halliburton? Or Transocean? Why not? Because the kind of products they offer aren't really "boycottable" by the general populace. Same with BP. People see the brand name and think it's effective, but they just don't know much about the oil industry.

I also don't get where people believe that BP is any worse than any other gas giant industry out there. They aren't. So this boycott seems to be based on what's in the American news more than a moral stand against irresponsible gas companies. If you want to do that, you will have to find another mode of transportation.

[semillama]

215. if you really want to hurt oil companies

Cut down on your consumption of plastic.

I'd say cut OUT your consumption of plastic, but in this day and age that might be close to impossible.

[dionysus]

218. +1

[madmom]

217. This is no different than when people where boycotting the

auto manufacturers who got the LOAN from the government. They didn't care that if they went bankrupt, so many more people would be without a job or any kind of support. What goes around comes around I guess. It's ALWAYS the little guy that gets hurt NEVER the big guys.

[William Z. Foster]

234. trickle down

This is a variation on trickle down economics.

"Don't hurt the wealthy, because that will only hurt the little guy" is a cousin to "help the wealthy, because it will trickle down to the little guy."

If it is "ALWAYS the little guy that gets hurt NEVER the big guys," as you say, then that is an argument in favor of the "little guys" banding together and fighting back, and an argument for radical social and political change, not an argument for acceptance of the existing conditions and resignation.

[madmom]

242. I totally agree!

[tranche]

224. This is DU. We always have to be boycotting something. All capitalists pigs are targets.

Except the ones I need at any particular moment.

[William Z. Foster]

233. backward

The "capitalist pigs" need us, we don't need them.

[Critters2]

228. The boycott is working...and it's affecting BP.

BP is now promising compensation to station owners. That will affect BP's bottom line, and send a loud, and important message.

http://www.csmonitor.com/From-the-news-wires/2010/0629/BP-boycott-BP-tells-local-gas-station-owners-help-is-on-the-way

[backscatter712]

229. Yep, and BP's now airing anti-boycott ads.

If they're willing to spend that kind of money, that means they're feeling pain from the boycott.

[backscatter712]

230. $50 million to $70 million of direct fiscal pain to BP itself.

Don't tell me the boycott isn't working - there's some hard numbers to show direct damage to BP!

[nyc 4 Biden]

239. UNREC!

yes you are hurting BP by not buying their product. this may be one of the dumbest debates i've ever seen on DU.

[fatbuckel]

240. I haven`t bought BP gas for years because it`s junk gas.

Made my car run like crap.My mower too. No problems with Shell.

[Duer 157099]

243. Since gas consumers cannot boycott BP directly, they put pressure on those who buy from BP

And I presume those would be the BP station owners.

The logic of refraining from putting pressure on a big corporation because it hurts the workers is the same logic that says we need to continue deep water drilling in the Gulf (even as there are ZERO response elements available for any accident) because otherwise people will lose their jobs.

You think corporations don't purposely use "baby shields" to deflect any harm from coming their way?

Pressure has to trickle up the chain.

[Duer 157099]

245. Don't think of it as boycotting BP; think of it as supporting not-BP n/t

[L0oniX]

247. +++