Bill Gates Ed Reformer in The Third Year Review

[erodriguez]

[Starry Messenger]

1. Yay!

k & r

[Brickbat]

2. EXACTLY.

Why anyone listens to him about anything galls me to no end.

[erodriguez]

4. Money buys a lot of ears

[Brickbat]

24. True that. Welcome to DU!

[LooseWilly]

3. Ahhh, Vista

At least Microsoft won't be worrying about those Vista developers being around long enough for a retirement package.

3 year cap indeed... ;)

[erodriguez]

5. For those who haven't heard

Bill Gates has said that teachers do not improve after their third year.

Madfloridian has more info

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/6476

[Starry Messenger]

8. I just finished my fourth year.

I'm definitely miles along from last year and can see where I can improve in the future. Gates is pulling stuff out of his ass.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. 30 for me

But Bill and his buds think I need to be put out to pasture. Like a horse I guess.

Can I at least have a/c in my stall? :)

[Starry Messenger]

20. Bill sez neigh!

:D

[NJmaverick]

6. Why knock a man who is freely spending his own money and volunteering

his time to try and help people by improving education?

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Because he's not helping

He needs to go back to curing malaria. That's helping.

[NJmaverick]

9. I wouldn't be so sure he is not helping

and I think it's wrong how people are trying to demonize a volunteer that is freely giving of his time and wealth. To be honest the nature and severity of the attacks make the attackers look worse than it does Bill Gates.

To argue that his efforts are commendable but misguided is reasonable. To try and paint the man as a villain is just wrong, in my opinion.

[erodriguez]

12. Villian: no Misguided Contemptuous Meddler: Yes

His belief that teachers don't improve after three years, proves he does not know anything about education.
In fact, it also shows his contempt for teachers. He praises them at the AFT convention, yet a week later is attacking teacher's pensions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8758063


In NYC, he came up with this idea that small high schools will save education. So the NYCDOE started closing community high schools and putting small schools in them.

The results according to Mr. Gates.


"In the first four years of our work with new, small schools, most of the schools had achievement scores below district averages on reading and math assessments. In one set of schools we supported, graduation rates were no better than the statewide average, and reading and math scores were consistently below the average. The percentage of students attending college the year after graduating high school was up only 2.5 percentage points after five years. Simply breaking up existing schools into smaller units often did not generate the gains we were hoping for."

http://giftedexchange.blogspot.com/2008/12/bill-gates-small-schools-disappointing.html

So he pulls out funding for small schools and we are left with a mess in NYC. Small schools means less funding per school and fewer AP courses.

This guy's hubris is driving education towards a cliff.

[NJmaverick]

15. Are you talking about this "mess"?

<<including some in New York City. Their graduation rates were nearly 40 percentage points higher than the rates in the schools they replaced. In 2006, the small schools' graduation rates exceeded those of comparable schools in the district by 18 percentage points. Chancellor Klein is here this morning, and I want to thank him and Mayor Bloomberg for their leadership.>>

Had to go all rhe way back to the original speech transcript to get the complete story.

[erodriguez]

30. What isn't reported

is that small schools do not have to accept special needs students or ELL's for the first two years of existence.


http://www.nysun.com/new-york/study-new-small-high-schools-are-failing/41544/

It didn't work. Accept it.

[montanto]

14. Some of us who know the industry

know that he's not helping. Take it from those who know. He's not helping. He is not giving anything freely, either. He is giving with strings attached. The strings are not helping, because they are tied to his interests, not those of the average student. The attackers look just fine, because they know he is not helping. Saying that he is not helping is just the truth. He is misguided, but he is also not listening, which is both not helpful and actively harmful. Haven't we had enough of wealthy, powerful people who want to change things but don't want to listen to any of the people impacted by those changes? "After three years teachers don't change" as a statement of truth, is utter bullshit, and his belief or espousal of it is villainous.

Otherwise the guy's fine with me.

[NJmaverick]

16. Tied to these interests?

"Melinda and I believe that providing every child with a good education is the only path to equality in America."

[blindpig]

18. He is not trying to improve education,

he is turning it into a commodity and union busting.

[NJmaverick]

21. Assuming that is the case, what are his motives?

[blindpig]

22. Dunno

but his actions, associations and speech make it pretty clear.

[NJmaverick]

23. Highly filtered versions of his speeches make it sound that way

if you go to the source it's not clear that is what he is trying to do. Still with out a motive the accusations seem far from plausible

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. I was in the audience and heard the entire unfiltered version

He made his agenda clear enough that I understood.

[Catshrink]

26. Listen to it unfiltered

a little past 12 minutes in

http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_unplugged.html

[Catshrink]

27. Here we go again...not

[erodriguez]

31. Exactly

These days, education articles act like troll pheromones.

[Catshrink]

33. They sure bring out the experts*

*1)those who've been to school and because of this deem themselves knowledgable about all aspects of education even though their experience is only that of a student - OR -
2) they are ***CORPORATE TRAINERS*** and based on their experience teaching proscribed curriculum to adults believe they know all about educating children

[txlibdem]

35. Only teachers should have any say in how our kids are educated?

People who've been through 13 years of K-12 and then gone on to college have been exposed to the teaching practices of hundreds of teachers so why wouldn't that "qualify" them to have an opinion?

Do teachers have a special meeting that parents could never know about where all knowledge is imparted to them? If they do then, in my experience, most teachers must never have attended!

***Stop trying to make this an "us against the world" thing, or teachers are right and parents know nothing about educating their own children. It is not only wrong-headed and demeaning to parents who want to HELP you do your job it flies in the face of empirical evidence that schools are failing to educate the children.

[Catshrink]

36. Hundreds of teachers?

As a student, you see only a very small part of teaching and the education process. But I don't expect someone in the field to fully grasp that.

And stop your teacher-bashing. You've just dismissed teachers and you know what? It's old.

Let's see if these names mean anything to you:

Maslow
Bloom
Hunter
Hestenes
Tobias
Gardner

[txlibdem]

37. It's teacher bashing to state the dropout rate in schools?

It is you, my fine friend, who are bashing the parents and all other non-teachers who voice an opinion here on DU. Your tone is usually dismissive. Your superior, holier-than-thou attitude is quite off-putting and not conducive to a good rousing discussion about perhaps the most serious crisis this nation faces. At least it's up there in the top 5 anyway behind our foreign oil addiction, global climate change, and maybe universal health care (because I can teach my kid but I can't cure measles).

Read my previous posts and you'll see clearly that I have said time and again that teachers are NOT the problem with our educational system. Yes, some of them need to be assisted in finding other careers but most are very competent and dedicated to their craft.

"As a student, you only see a very small part of teaching and the ed. process." I like your appeal to authority there; very junior high debate team of you. Don't tell me, let me guess. What you do is soooooo far beyond the comprehension of our (parents') tiny pea brains that we could never hope to scale the lofty heights of your intellectual achievement enough to grasp the amazing pedagogic principles that you wrestle with each day. There now. If I don't sound as pompous as you then I didn't try hard enough.

You snicker at hundreds of teachers. Hmm. Between myself and my siblings, my friends and acquaintances, my children and their friends, that is a lot of teachers from K through college and university. 17 times 6 times 5 equals what, in your classroom? It's close to 100 already just adding my teachers alone. I am beginning to doubt your claim that you are, in fact, a teacher. Or perhaps your math skills are proving my point about our educational system?

[erodriguez]

38. Parents and students should express their opinion.

They are both part of the learning community.

However, the big issue in education today is that non-educators are the loudest, and are making most of the policy decisions. Many feel they know enough about the profession through student, parental or anecdotal experience. Others, like Bill Gates or Arne Duncan get their expertise through their sense of entitlement and hubris.

When I was a kid, I drove around town with my parents enough to understand the rules of the road and the difference between the brake and the gas. Yet, when I sat behind the wheel for the first time, I quickly learned that I didn't know much about driving. I had to rely on my parents and their expertise as drivers for help.

Teachers are the experts on education. We study to be teachers and become licensed to teach. We struggle through the first few grueling years as teachers to develop our skills.

After teaching for almost a decade, I've learned enough to know that I still have a lot to learn.

Your rhetoric about teachers rings with spite and contempt. Like my parents taught me when I was learning to drive, you need to stop, look both ways and when you think you know what is going on, look again.

[QC]

34. You can set your watch by it. n/t

[NJmaverick]

40. Sounds like you are trying very hard to stifle any sort of debate and/or critical thinking

on this issue.

[BuelahWitch]

10. What does a college drop out like Bill Gates know about teaching?

Yeah he has alot of money, so does Paris Hilton. So?

[NJmaverick]

11. What did he know about running a major corporation?

[erodriguez]

13. I am sure it took him more than three years to figure it out

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. +1

[Catshrink]

28. Great 'toon!

The scary thing is, Gates has Arne's ear.

[erodriguez]

29. Thanks Catshrink

Arne surrounds himself with non-educators that are great at saying "Good Job, Arne".

[Starry Messenger]

32. kick for the evening crowd.

[erodriguez]

39. Kick for the morning