I Think I Might Have a Solution to the "Ground Zero Mosque" Debacle...

[LAGC]

Imagine the reaction if instead of building an exclusive Islamic community center and mosque at that location, Imam Rauf and company were instead to re-brand it as an INTERFAITH OUTREACH CENTER, with a combination mosque/church/synagogue on the upper levels of the building, where people of all faiths were invited to pray and worship, instead of just a mosque for Muslims only? The community center would remain the same, open to people of all faiths in the vicinity to enjoy.

I mean, talk about turning lemons into lemonade! The Muslims could get what they wanted (a new place to worship and recreate) and all the hate-mongers would have the winds taken out of their sails! I think such a truly bridge-building initiative would be something even Governor Dean and Harry Reid would approve of, a "compromise" that really isn't giving much up (besides exclusivity) on the part of the Muslims, and I imagine they'd have no problem finding lots of eager donors to fund the project, hell I'd even consider chipping in a little to such a noble project myself.

I mean, I know they own the property and have every right to be exclusive/preferential about their clientele and have every Constitutional right to build what they want there, but if they really wanted to mend relations with those of other faiths, why NOT an INTERFAITH center for all to enjoy and call their own?

Am I out of line here?

[dkf]

1. Not out of line but I have a feeling this is supposed to be the Sufis emergence as a world leader

and he needs it for his own agenda.

[Luminous Animal]

6. And what would that be? I'm happily imagining the Pope and Sufi battling it out in Thunderdome.

[dkf]

8. What drives the Pope or Jerry Falwell?

Ego? It sure takes a healthy ego to claim they know what God wants

[Luminous Animal]

10. Same can be said for the average self-deluded believer.

[Mariana]

13. EVERY clergyman claims to know what God wants

That's their job, to tell the laypeople what God wants. Do you really think this particular one is unusual in that regard?

[pinboy3niner]

2. The Park51 plans include a lot of that already--open to all

It may not incorporate a church or a synagogue, but it has offerings for everyone:

We will include a September 11th memorial and quiet reflection space where people of different faith traditions and beliefs, sacred and secular, can find quiet time and solace. Park51 will also include general spaces and world-class facilities for all New Yorkers to benefit from, whether that’s a Hebrew class meeting weekly or a yoga studio looking for space on a regular basis. We’ll have an auditorium to engage large audiences, and sophisticated classroom space as well.

With respect to the mosque, which will take up only a small portion of the final space, it’s a question of meeting a need. This mosque will be open to all. There are probably one million Muslims in the tri-state area and several hundred thousand in New York City. We should understand that Muslim New Yorkers are part of the city and have been for a very long time. Just a few days ago, I stopped to pray at a midtown mosque, and the congregation was led by a New York City Police Officer. He was a Muslim serving our city, keeping us safe.

http://www.park51.org/inthenews.htm

[seattleblue]

3. They don't currently own the property at 51 Park.

Con Ed does and would need the permission of the Public Utilities Commission to sell it. That commission has not even received an application from anyone to transfer the property.

[LAGC]

4. Really?

I thought I heard on al-Jazeera that a wealthy member of Imam Rauf's congregation bought the property for $3 million?

[Luminous Animal]

9. Con Ed owns the property but Soho properties owns a 70 year lease...

The New York Post reported Sunday that Con Ed’s ownership of 49-51 Park Place could be an obstacle for the Islamic center.

However, Soho Properties, the mosque's developer, signed a long-term lease on the building last year and “has rights to use, alter, demolish or renovate the building,” Con Ed said.

The utility plans to eventually sell the former substation building to Soho Properties, as long as the developer pays a fee set by an independent appraiser.

Regardless of whether the sale goes through, plans for the Islamic center, called Park51, can still move forward under the current lease, which lasts until 2071, Con Ed said.

“We are following our legal obligations under the lease,” Con Ed said. “We will not allow other considerations to enter into this transaction.”

According to city records, Sharif El-Gamal, CEO of Soho Properties, paid $700,000 last year to take over the lease on the Park Place building, which most recently housed the Burlington Coat Factory and was heavily damaged during the terrorist attacks of 9/11.

El-Gamal also bought the adjacent 45-47 Park Place for $4.85 million and plans to knock down both buildings to make way for the new center.

Read more: http://dnainfo.com/20100809/downtown/con-ed-will-not-block-ground-zero-mosque#ixzz0x89eluQn

[Luminous Animal]

5. It is open to all. It is not an exclusive Islamic community center. It is a community center.

Just like the Jewish community center in San Francisco is a community center that is open to all that also includes a synagogue with services that is open for all who wish to worship in the Jewish faith.

[LAGC]

7. But what about other faiths?

In that Jewish community center you mentioned, would Christians be kicked out if they openly prayed to Jesus inside the synagogue? Or Muslims to Mohammed? That's not very inclusive, IMHO...

[Luminous Animal]

12. They don't worship in the community center. It is, a community center and not a synagogue.

I, an atheist, have accessed the amenities offered by the Jewish Community Center and not once been questioned about my faith in order to do so.

[Douglas Carpenter]

11. the solution is to treat this Sufi-Muslim Community Center the same as if it was Anglican or

Jewish or Buddhist or Hindu or atheist or Pentecostal Holiness or whatever.

America either stands for freedom of religion or it doesn't. America either treats all of its citizens and all of its communities equally or it doesn't.

[Inspired]

14. I the USA wanted to stay true to its values, it would build a Walmart on Ground Zero.

And be done with it.

Hat tip to some unknown twitter'er!

[AnArmyVeteran]

24. If my last name was 'Mosque' would I be prevented from opening Mosque's Beer Joint near ground zero?

[Warren Stupidity]

15. The debacle is in our heads.

What we should do when this idiocy is raised is reply that the first amendment protects religion from government interference.

[Karenina]

16. We'll see how good it is at protecting Sufis

from a traditional, rabid white mob...

[Warren Stupidity]

17. A rabid white mob in NYC?

You're funny.

But that is a separate issue. Meanwhile the political party I support needs to protect first amendment rights rather than bending over to bigotry.

[Karenina]

20. I was more referring to the screaming banshee media

and those whose "feelings" get whipped up by same.

[TheKentuckian]

18. Why are you looking for ways to coddle bigots and infringe on these folks free expression of their

faith?

Every "solution" is a way for these citizens to give some ground to the people who are jumping out of the Bushes once everything was approved to persecute these people's faith for the purposes of gaining short term political advantage and religious intolerance.

Nobody asks Pat Robertson to compromise shit or to remove his offensive ass to somewhere less offensive.

Yeah, I think you are being out of line because you expect these people to abandon their faith to "make lemonade" and wipe out what bigots find offensive, the faith in Islam.

How the hell is it bridge building when you do all the building is from one side, what are you asking of the anti-Muslim bigots? That's right absolutely fucking nothing. You are being another demanding capitulation as the price of community and in fact your price is higher than most bigots because you ask these people to surrender their faith as the price of admission.

What is wrong with you that you'd ask someone to deny their faith to appease fuckwits that cannot even express their "concerns"?

[LAGC]

21. I'm not asking them to deny anything.

Just share, that's all, in the name of better relations and tolerance and respect for people of different faiths in general.

Because you have to admit, if they do go ahead and build an exclusive mosque and Muslim center, this WILL piss a good portion of America off, and turn them further off to Islam in general. Doesn't that go against the Sufi-Muslims' goal of more understanding and tolerance for their faith? I'm just trying to argue things from their perspective, their professed goals, that's all.

I mean, what is the goal here? To better inter-faith relations, or to build a mosque at all costs? Just something for them to consider, that's all...

[TheKentuckian]

22. You are asking them to make an accommodation that denies their faith in a dishonest bid to use their

ideals against them.

You imply that the only way they can be true to their ideals is by giving up their individuality. You expect them to fold to a bigoted mob or else they are worthy of such an opposition.

You claim that the only way they can respect the faiths of others is to deny there own.

You press these fellow citizens into a corner that fostering tolerance can only be achieved by accepting intolerance against them for absolutely no fucking reason.

You have an insane and illogical bigotry against these people and demand they fix it for you by pretending to argue from their point of view, which you clearly don't begin to get because you are being an irrational Crusading dipshit.

How does one foster understanding by fading into the background as not to disturb the bigots? These folks have done nothing to deserve this kind of tact and suspicion and it is disgusting to not only legitimize it but to use it as a cudgel to expect compliance to some kind of compensation from who logically are the people being oppressed.

Now, they are expected to give up their vision in favor of yours or you feel you have a license to oppress them or at the least label them has some hypocrites for their desire to serve their community like any other faith.
Where the fuck were you along the long path to getting approval with your desire for an inter-faith center with this group? Where the hell was your help with money, legwork, and long hours of plans that such efforts require?

You were fucking nowhere and now that they are in the red zone you insist on being allowed to be GM, Coach, and quarterback. That's arrogance in the extreme.

You tell me, what are these people's crimes that they deserve any of this or to be treated as suspicious or to have out of the ordinary standards to demonstrate the veracity of their aims?

You act as what you ask is a bit of nothing yet ignore that you are asking something that had to my knowledge never been expected of others before.

You aren't putting yourself in anyone's shoes at all. How the fuck would you feel if the normal going about your business brought unheard of "requests" for compromise or in your case an active dismissal of your vision and plans?

Your interpretation of "understanding" is appeasement of the worst and most irrational part of people and I reckon on their fucking dime too boot.

[Kip Humphrey]

19. my solution... Religion-Free Zones around all US sites of national significance...

WELCOME TO
THE TWIN TOWERS 9/11 SITE

THIS IS A RELIGION-FREE ZONE

NO

CHURCHES, SYNAGOGUES, MOSQUES,
TEMPLES, OR HENGES MAY OCCUPY
LOCATIONS WITHIN 1 STATUTE MILE OF
THIS SITE OF NATIONAL SIGNIFICANCE.

VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED.

US DEPT OF INTERIOR

[TheKentuckian]

23. UnConstitutional