Is "bullying" the right word for what's happening to GLBT kids in school?

[Smarmie Doofus]

I don't think the word adequately describes the phenomenon we're seeing. I'm leaning right now toward "conspiracy of silence"... to which conspiracy we are *all* parties , albeit to varying degrees. In addition, "negligent homicide" is an existing criminological category that comes close . "Criminal negligence" will, for now, round out the nominees.

"Bullying" , correct me if I'm wrong, is universal. When I think of "bullying" it think of the mischievious Tom Sawyer dipping Becky's pigtails in the inkwell. Or the Darwinian hierarchy that seems to spring-up every year like dandelions ( i.e whether we want 'em to or not) among junior high school age boys. There's pain, winners and losers, perpetrators and victims. Teachers... and other adults ....tend to theses things ( i HOPE) and try to at least mitigate the damage.

I don't think any adults that have been around kids a lot believe that they are going to "eliminate" bullying... as represented by the above examples. But they can mitigate it. And minimize the damage done. As a consequence , kids generally don't jump off a bridge over lunch money extortion. People ... (kids... skinny kids, uncool kids, unattractive kids, bottom of the pecking-order kids...) tend to muddle thru JHS and HS and manage to graduate with their bodies and psyches essentially intact.

There are tragic exceptions: the young lady who immigrated from Ireland to western Mass. last year and was literally hounded to death ( for no reason that i could ever discern; other than that she was new and spoke with an accent.) And there are plenty of examples in the media of "cyber bullying." ( I'm glad I'm not a HS student today. Jesus.)

Here's my point: "bullying" can't be avoided and can be ( and often IS) addressed and remediated; its damage *mitigated.*

What's happening to GLBT kids is of another order entirely. To begin with: 98% of public schools *lie* about homosexuality BY NOT TEACHING ABOUT IT.

1. The vast preponderance of the scientific data indicates that homosexual behavior is universal to all animal species and to all human societies.

It is therefore a naturally-occuring ... and presumably healthy.... human variant. Burden of proof would seem on the "negative side" if there is any dispute on this point.

So... what % of public schools teach the SCIENCE of homosexuality? Pretty close to ZERO, I'd wager. Again: NOT TEACHING it is a lie to the same degree that teaching that H is unnatural and pathological is a lie. Either we're dealing with science or we are NOT.

Either we are presenting scientific consensus objectively or we are DISTORTING it. NOT teaching the scientific consensus is tantamount to distorting it. DRAMATICALLY.

2. Homosexual human beings have existed throughout human history. They have contributed greatly... some would say disproportionately... to human history and development. Their sexuality is well researched and confirmed by historians. Again: a consensus in the appropriate academic field. Well-read adults know this. It is not in serious dispute.
So: where are the schools who do not hide this information from their students?


Point: if we have "schools" that systematically lie by omission about an entire class of human beings... members of which class exist in every student body in every school in the United States, and thereby DEFAME them, can we legitimately claim innocence when members of said group are stigmatized, ridiculed, harassed.

Isolated, damaged, threatened, driven to drop-out? Driven to suicide?

I don't think this is "bullying". This is something closer to "criminal negligence" ... and it looks to me like we are ALL at least complicit if not just plain *guilty*.

[jwirr]

1. IMO those pics on internet was a hate crime. nt

[immoderate]

6. I don't see it as anti-gay as much as an attempt to humiliate...

What if they did the same thing but it was to a heterosexual? Would it be less a crime, especially if there is no evidence this was aimed at gays in general? I think they committed several crimes, which they would not have, except for the stupid: "WTF? You can't secretly record somebody having sex, and then post it on the internet? C'mon! The guy's a geek! It was a joke!" Many reasons they might have thought of doing it, but they wouldn't have followed through without the stupid.

Hate will be tough to prove.

--imm

[JackBeck]

12. NJ has probably the strictest hate-crimes statutes in the country.

Hate doesn't have to be proven, but if it was bias against a protected class that motivated the suspects, then they can be charged with a hate-crime.

In other words, if they wanted to humiliate Tyler because of his sexual orientation, that can be considered bias, and they will be charged with a hate-crime, which is what the Middlesex County Prosecutors office has already said they intend to do.

[merqz]

22. Opinion is irrelevant w/o knowing the relevant case law in that state

assuming it is charged as a state crime. In my state, it would NOT be a hate crime. It would be a crime, but there is no hate crime enhancement for the invasion of privacy statute, which is the one they would be charged under. I can't speak to the penal code in the state this occurred, therefore I have no idea if it was a hate crime.

[msongs]

2. religion is the source of most anti-glbt bullying IMO - as well as anti-girl bullying nt

[LWolf]

3. There are many subjects that are not taught, or barely recognized

in K-8 schooling; high schools touch on such subjects a little more, because the students are more mature and approaching legal adult hood, but probably not enough in many places.

Why? Because organized religion bullies local school boards, sets parents up to threaten teachers and schools, and elects their people to the local school boards to make sure, when they attack at the school site, they have support at the top.

The general public IS complicit, when they allow that kind of bullying of educators. Bullying educators is currently a national sport. We are to blame for literally EVERYTHING at this point. The current movement to remove tenure, to engage in wholesale firings, only feeds the flames.

If you want to see that change, then the culture of educator bullying will also have to change. They are interconnected.

[Smarmie Doofus]

9. You know that I know that you know that we are both appalled..

.. by the scapegoating of educators.

So, understand: I"M NOT saying that "teachers" are any kind of "culprit" here ( Though Duncan makes me a little nervous with his acknowledgment the other day of the issue I address in the OP. BTW, as a profession, we should be careful... and maybe even see it as a WAKE-UP call .... when certifiable scoundrels are taking the "high ground" on moral/ethical issues that we teachers up to now have failed to address.).

People who write the curricula are not classroom teachers. With the weakening of unionism and professionalism teachers are LESS able teach "controversial" ( and wtf this should be controversial subject matter is beyond me.).
Teachers are increasingly following orders. And ONLY following orders.

This is a SYSTEM failure and a POLITICAL failure much more than it is a teacher failure.

In any case, let's not forget: people ( kids) are dying.



Re. religion: They're no longer a serious factor in NYC... a least they aren't right now, and haven't been for a long time. Money and politics are factors. Yet still no education re. homosexuality/homosexuals in either science or social studies.

[LWolf]

14. You're right.

I fully support all efforts to protect, defend, and teach science at all levels; including science that involves sexual orientation and evolution.

I also want to see EVERY student safe, welcomed, and respected in EVERY public school. How do we accomplish those things?

First, we need support from the top. From school boards and state depts. of ed, supporting our efforts to teach controversial or unpopular topics.

Second, we need to support defend unions and tenure, which protect teachers when their jobs are under attack.

Third, we need to address the appalling narrow-minded bigotry that is a cancer in our nation; schools, even the best, are going to reflect the society they serve.

[DirkGently]

4. The kind of hounding behavior we're seeing is passively approved toward any kid with a perceived

difference or vulnerability, which can be as banal as simply not being "popular" enough. I think there's an argument that because American culture continues to demonize homosexuality, gay kids treated this way are more easily humiliated in a devastating way, but, as with the Irish girl you mentioned and countless other known and unknown examples, the behavior of bullying is essentially the same, and can be as devastating, in my opinion.

I think we can and should blunt the impact of anti-gay torment by countering the notion that being gay is somehow shameful, but I don't think we can fairly assume torturing any kid relentlessly is less brutal or harmful or blameworthy when sexual orientation is not the focus of the attacks.

[Smarmie Doofus]

20. They're both horrible. The difference is that the schools...

>>>>>> think we can and should blunt the impact of anti-gay torment by countering the notion that being gay is somehow shameful, but I don't think we can fairly assume torturing any kid relentlessly is less brutal or harmful or blameworthy when sexual orientation is not the focus of the attacks.>>>>>>>>>

effectively TAKE A POSITION on homosexuality by refusing to teach its SCIENCE and its HISTORY.

And the SCHOOLS are where the murder-by-suicides are TAKING PLACE.

No connection there?

[dsc]

5. We are up to nine now

nine in September alone who killed themselves rather than face another day like the ones they have lived before. I am honestly sick to death of reading these stories. I think back to myself back in the day and sitting at a pool ready to kill myself. I know that feeling and it just breaks my heart that we adult gays haven't saved our baby gays from this. We won't be successes as a gay rights movement until we end this once and for all.

[Smarmie Doofus]

13. Those are the ones we KNOW about.

Tip of the iceberg, I suspect.

But who can know. The entire subject is clouded with silence thanks in large part to the mindless "don't ask, don't tell, don't teach" promoted by the schools.

Well.... schools are FOR asking, telling, teaching. That why we HAVE SCHOOLS.

>>>We won't be successes as a gay rights movement until we end this once and for all.>>>

Hence schools as the front line. Everybody passes through school. Let's get them to stop lying about GLBTs by withholding generally accepted scientific and historical information.



Thanks for putting a human face to this issue.

[KurtNYC]

7. I agree that it goes beyond bullying but teaching is not the best solution

because it is not going to save teens that are at risk right now. I am not saying it shouldn't be part of a longer term and more broad-based answer. I'm saying that changing anything that schools do is enormously time and resource consuming. And there is whole huge fight there before you get anywhere. There are better tools that could be developed or strengthened.

- Establish and make well known a national suicide hotline specifically for GLBT people of all ages with counselors who are experienced in some of the things which are unique to GLBT situations. Some exist but I couldn't tell you the number off the top of my head. So I couldn't even direct a friend on a professional number to call without googling -- on the other hand to send flowers right now I would just dial 1-800-FL0WERS. Have the same entity, professional counselors, available by text and chat also.

- A GLBT version of the Southern Poverty Law Center. Funded by donations and grants.

etc.


It is not bullying and it doesn't end with schools. It is oppression.

[Smarmie Doofus]

26. It irks me that the agency that is supposed to *educate*,

.... i.e the school... is making a conscious choice not to do so.

It chooses instead... a lethal silence. The facts are there... the science and the historical record; the schools decide to *sit* on them.

In the meantime... kids are being driven to suicide IN THOSE VERY SCHOOLS.


We can chew gum and walk at the same time. We can set -up better triage and rescue hot-lines for the kids AFTER the psychological damage is done.

But ultimately you gotta change the stuff that's going on in peoples' minds. And that is one scary terrain.

[Posteritatis]

8. Your definition of "bullying" seems kind of rose-tinted. (nt)

[JohnnyLib2]

10. Labelling the behavior as bullying is useful, for now.

Perhaps a better word will surface. For now, it points to the behavior in a negative light and can put the perps. on the defensive, both socially and in disciplinary terms. E.g. it is possible in many school systems to report "bullying" right now.

-------
On further thought, I suspect another word or term WILL emerge.

[etherealtruth]

11. Society sanctioned terror is more like it

[rucky]

15. It deserves the same special designation that other hate crimes get.

[Cid_B]

16. Bullying is bullying IMO

... no matter the reason. You don't get to call it "super bullying" because it happens upon your particular issue and have it stick.

I'm just slow though. I still don't understand the concept of "hate crime." Illogical to me at best...

[Smarmie Doofus]

18. It's not the same. The schools teach that it is wrong...

... for big, tough kids to extort lunch money from kids that are smaller. They ignore gay kids that are harassed.


The schools teach about History in a way that includes traditionally victimized/ignored groups. Elementary schools are awash these days in Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Rosa Parks. Even "white" schools.

Hoped for result: AA kids feel good about themselves as AA. Equally important hoped for result: white kids respect accomplishments and abilities of AAs.


Alas.... the schools effectively LIE about GLBT history by pretending that it doesn't exist. What are gay kids to conclude about themselves? What are STRAIGHT kids to conclude about GAY kids?

It wouldn't help kids on both sides of the sexual divide to know that Plato, Socrates, Tchaikovsky, Keynes, Alexander, Julius Ceasar, Michaelangelo ,etc. etc. etc. were gay?

Come ON.

[Cid_B]

19. Does it matter that any of those you listed were homosexual?

IOW, does it play some critical role in understanding Tchaikovsky to know that he was gay?

How about a little check mark next to everyone's name in the history books like we have for politicians?

Michaelangelo's(G) work on the Sistine Chapel was one of his greatest projects.

It's all the same. Kids are picking on kids. Adults are picking on adults. Circle of life.. yada yada yada

[Smarmie Doofus]

21. Not in the least !

WIKI: >>>>>>Sexuality
In his book, Tchaikovsky: The Quest for the Inner Man, Poznansky showed that Tchaikovsky had homosexual tendencies and that some of the composer's closest relationships were with persons of the same sex. Tchaikovsky's servant Aleksei Sofronov and the composer's nephew, Vladimir "Bob" Davydov, have been suggested as possible romantic interests.<50> Tchaikovsky dedicated his Sixth Symphony, the Pathétique, to Davydov.<51> The love theme from Romeo and Juliet is generally considered to have been inspired by Eduard Zak.<52><53>
More controversial than Tchaikovsky's reported sexual proclivities is how comfortable the composer might have been with his sexual nature. After reading all Tchaikovsky's letters (including unpublished ones), Poznansky concludes that the composer "eventually came to see his sexual peculiarities as an insurmountable and even natural part of his personality ... without experiencing any serious psychological damage."<54> Relevant portions of his brother Modest's autobiography, where he tells of his brother's sexual orientation, have also been published.<55> Modest, like Pyotr, was homosexual.<47> Some letters previously suppressed by Soviet censors, where Tchaikovsky openly speaks out about his homosexuality, have been published in Russian, as well as by Poznansky in English translation.<56> However, biographer Anthony Holden claims British musicologist and scholar Henry Zajaczkowski's research "along psychoanalytical lines" points instead to "a severe unconscious inhibition by the composer of his sexual feelings":
One consequence of it may be sexual overindulgence as a kind of false solution: the individual thereby persuades himself that he does accept his sexual impulses. Complementing this and, also, as a psychological defense mechanism, would be precisely the idolization by Tchaikovsky of many of the young men of his circle , to which Poznansky himself draws attention. If the composer's response to possible sexual objects was either to use and discard them or to idolize them, it shows that he was unable to form an integrated, secure relationship with another man. That, surely, was tragedy.<57>
Musicologist and historian Roland John Wiley suggests a third alternative, based on Tchaikovsky's letters. He suggests that while Tchaikovsky experienced "no unbearable guilt" over his homosexuality, he remained aware of the negative consequences of that knowledge becoming public, especially of the ramifications for his family.<47> His decision to enter into a heterosexual union and try to lead a double life was prompted by several factors—the possibility of exposure, the willingness to please his father, his own desire for a permanent home and his love of children and family.<47> While Tchaikovsky may have been romantically active, the evidence for "sexual argot and passionate encounter" is limited.<47> He sought out the company of homosexuals in his circle for extended periods, "associating openly and establishing professional connections with them."<47> Wiley adds, "Amateurish criticism to the contrary, there is no warrant to assume, this period excepted, that Tchaikovsky's sexuality ever deeply impaired his inspiration, or made his music idiosyncratically confessional or incapable of philosophical utterance."<47> Professor Robert Greenberg of the San Francisco Conservatory of Music agrees, describes his turn towards a troubled inner world where he, “found a world of self-expression that he might never have discovered had he felt less alienated from society.”<52>
>>>>>>>>>>>

[merqz]

23. I was bullied in third grade

because I liked to jog at recess. That was considered weird. The teachers didn't do anything about it, but I suspect they didn't know about it. I certainly didn't mention it to them. After I struck the bullyer in the face, he stopped bullying me. Granted, this was ONE bully, not a group.

[Initech]

17. This is way beyond bullying.

[brentspeak]

24. Most "bullying" commited by kids against other kids -- gay or not -- are criminal acts

A student is punched or kicked or shoved against a wall by another student or group of students -- that is physical assault and should be treated as a criminal act. Likewise, a student who is verbally harassed for a prolonged period of time -- say, more than a few days -- that's criminal harassment.

[WeekendWarrior]

25. I'd call it simple bigotry

and they've been indoctrinated by their homophobic parents and a homophobic society to hate and make fun of the "other."

I've never understood the vitriolic hatred against gays and lesbians, even when I was a kid (and that was a long time ago), but I do know that kids can be extremely cruel and those extremely cruel kids often grow to be extremely cruel adults.

Years ago I worked for a law firm that was representing a man who lost his job at a car dealership when it was discovered he was HIV positive. They didn't outright FIRE him, however. Instead, he went through several weeks of merciless taunts from admin and his fellow car salesmen, including words like FAG and HOMO written on his locker. Homophobic slurs became commonplace around the workplace and the guy found it so unbearable that he finally quit his job, despite the fact that he was a single parent who had no other way to support his son. Our firm was suing the dealership for creating a hostile atmosphere for this employee.

The guy lost his case, came down with full blown AIDS and died a year or so later, leaving his son behind. I'm not sure he ever got another job.

Bigotry can be VERY destructive indeed.

[MrScorpio]

27. That kind of hounding is bullying at its core

As the people who do such a thing are bullies indeed.

[alarimer]

28. Americans are the bullies of the world, if you think about it.

The kind of behavior you are describing is approved of in this society, by and large. It is cool to tease or make fun of others, especially if they are perceived as different in any way. I suspect gay teens have it worse because they are also abused at home many times.

Ours is a society where not making waves and going along to get along is the norm. If you want to make things right, if you whistle-blow at work, you are hounded until you stop or go away.

American society sucks and always has.

[bobbolink]

29. This behavior toward both gay and homeless kids is TERRORISM.

And that is the intention... to inspire fear and terror in its victims.

[Smarmie Doofus]

31. But shouldn't the schools be *doing* something to stop it?

Aside , that is, from NOT teaching accurate science re GLBT's and aside from NOT teaching accurate history?

The mismanagement and cowardice of the educational establishment is turning the American public school into a neon oven for GLBT kids.

[bobbolink]

32. The schools have known this for a long time, and it was driven home by Columbine.

Yet here we are.

ALL bullying should NEVER be tolerated... it is literally deadly.

But like everything else, nothing will change until we all DEMAND it.

[Angry Dragon]

30. Terrorism and hate crimes

[applegrove]

33. Hate Crimes and persecution.