Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

So sorry, little child with the wondering eyes. We don't know why they did it either.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:09 PM
Original message
So sorry, little child with the wondering eyes. We don't know why they did it either.
Edited on Fri May-25-07 12:24 PM by IndyOp
From Madfloridian's DU Journal - A beautiful, heart-wrenching commentary....

So sorry, little child with the wondering eyes. We don't know why they did it either.


An unidentified Iraqi child gazes at an Agence France-Presse photographer outside his home in the impoverished Shi’ite-stronghold of Sadr City, Baghdad, on Wednesday.

They have given George Bush a pass and control over the lives of millions of Iraqis....with no checks and balances. They have already started the edging into Sadr City, where there are two million people. Fallujah was only about 400,000. Look what a mess we made there.

He can bomb them, send rockets, missiles. And he has a hundred billion dollars to do it with.

Sadr City has a tightly packed population of about 2 million people.

What a beautiful child. His fate is in Bush's hands. Pardon the melodrama...or maybe it isn't.

"So sorry, little child with the wondering eyes. We don't know why they did it either" is from Madfloridian's DU Journal - A beautiful, heart-wrenching commentary....


My question to Jessica -- the person I spoke to in my Congressmember's office yesterday was about how members of Congress could vote for more holocaust -- "WHERE IS THEIR GOD?" An Iraqi somewhere, sometime soon, is going to write an essay that echoes the post-World War II holocaust essay, "God Is Dead."


ONE MILLION EXCESS DEATHS since March, 2003 - is a very fair estimate at this point. The Lancet study published in October 2006 estimated 655,000 -- and they stopped collecting data in July 2006, nearly a year ago. Their estimate did NOT include Fallujah and they instructed their surveyors NOT to go into neighborhoods in which they did not feel safe.


October, 2006: Updated Iraq Survey Affirms Earlier Mortality Estimates

As many as 654,965 more Iraqis may have died since hostilities began in Iraq in March 2003 than would have been expected under pre-war conditions, according to a survey conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad. The deaths from all causes—violent and non-violent—are over and above the estimated 143,000 deaths per year that occurred from all causes prior to the March 2003 invasion.

The estimates were derived from a nationwide household survey of 1,849 households throughout Iraq conducted between May and July 2006. The results are consistent with the findings of an October 2004 study of Iraq mortality conducted by the Hopkins researchers. Also, the findings closely reflect the increased mortality trends reported by other organizations that utilized passive methods of counting mortality, such as counting bodies in morgues or deaths reported by the news media. The study is published in the October 14, 2006, edition of the peer-reviewed scientific journal, The Lancet.

“As we found with our previous survey, the majority of deaths in Iraq are due to violence—although we also saw a small increase in deaths from non-violent causes, such as heart disease, cancer and chronic illness. Gunshots were the primary cause of violent deaths. To put these numbers in context, deaths are occurring in Iraq now at a rate more than three times that from before the invasion of March 2003,” said Gilbert Burnham, MD, PhD, lead author of the study and co-director of the Bloomberg School’s Center for Refugee and Disaster Response. “Our total estimate is much higher than other mortality estimates because we used a population-based, active method for collecting mortality information rather than passive methods that depend on counting bodies or tabulated media reports of violent deaths. Though the numbers differ, the trend in increasing numbers of deaths closely follows that measured by the U.S. Defense Department and the Iraq Body Count group.”

Key points of the study include:

• Estimated 654,965 additional deaths in Iraq between March 2003 and July 2006

• Majority of the additional deaths (91.8 percent) caused by violence

• Males aged 15-44 years accounted for 59 percent of post-invasion violent deaths

• About half of the households surveyed were uncertain who was responsible for the death of a household member

• The proportion of deaths attributed to coalition forces diminished in 2006 to 26 percent. Between March 2003 and July 2006, households attributed 31 percent of deaths to the coalition

• Mortality data from the 2006 study reaffirms 2004 estimates by Hopkins researchers and mirrors upward trends measured by other organizations

• Researchers recommend establishment of an international body to calculate mortality and monitor health of people living in all regions affected by conflict


The mortality survey used well-established and scientifically proven methods for measuring mortality and disease in populations. These same survey methods were used to measure mortality during conflicts in the Congo, Kosovo, Sudan and other regions. For the Iraq study, data were collected from 47 randomly selected clusters of 40 households each. At each household selected, trained Iraqi surveyors collected data on the number of births and deaths that occurred in the household between January 1, 2002, and June 30, 2006. To be considered a household member, the deceased had to have lived in the home at least three months prior to death. When interviewers asked to see a death certificate at households reporting a death, it was presented in 92 percent of instances. The survey recorded 1,474 births and 629 deaths among 12,801 people surveyed. The data were then applied to the 26.1 million Iraqis living in the survey area.

While the survey collected information on the manner of death, the study did not examine the circumstances of the death, such as whether the deceased was actively involved in armed combat, terrorism, criminal activity or caught in the middle of the conflict. The study outlines other limitations of the survey method, including the hazards of collecting data during a conflict.

The results from the new study closely match the finding of the group’s October 2004 mortality survey. The earlier study, also published in The Lancet, estimated over 100,000 additional deaths from all causes had occurred in Iraq from March 2003 to August 2004. When data from the new study were examined, it estimated 112,000 deaths for the same time period of the 2004 study. The new survey also found that the number of deaths attributed to coalition forces had declined in 2006, though overall households attributed 31 percent of deaths to the coalition. Responsibility could not be attributed in 45 percent of the violent deaths.

According to the researchers, the overall rate of mortality in Iraq since March 2003 is 13.3 deaths per 1,000 persons per year compared to 5.5 deaths per 1,000 persons per year prior to March 2003. This amounts to about 2.5 percent of Iraqi’s population having died as a consequence of the war. To put the 654,000 deaths in context with other conflicts, the authors note that during the Vietnam War an estimated 3 million civilians died overall; the Congo conflict was responsible for 3.8 million deaths; and recent estimates are that 200,000 have died in Darfur over the past 31 months.


I am disgusted with the Democratic Leadership and EVERY member of Congress who voted to fund the holocaust. Must've been a lot like voting to pay for those Farber ovens used in the death camps in Germany in WWII.

So sorry, little child with the wondering eyes. We don't know why they did it either.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Actually, I wrote that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I am so sorry - I've edited my post to give you credit up top...
I didn't read carefully enough - I thought it was part of Sirota's essay. The photo is simply heartbreaking...

Let me know if you want me to edit it again or cut out text you wrote...

I wanted everyone to LOOK AT WHAT IS AT STAKE...

:cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Oh, that's fine. I am just so sad. We are playing games with lives.
We feel just devastated today, and nothing seems to help.
:-(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Check out dogday's latest post...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. sophistry
The majority of legislators who voted for the Democratic funding bill share those concerns and are as committed to ending the occupation as the poster. They just didn't feel that withholding the funds was going to make that happen. They didn't relinquish or abandon their commitment to timetables for withdrawal just by allowing the one supplemental to advance.

The poster doesn't get moral superiority over those who voted for the supplemental as the effect of withholding the funds didn't look like it would have any effect on Bush at all. The question of support for the timetables that were removed from that particular bill still stands, and the majority of legislators who voted in favor of the one supplemental bill will still vote in favor of any bill which contains an exit date.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Then they need to replace their "leaders."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I do have superiority over those who gave Bush a blank check to kill Iraqis.
They gave that power without restrictions for the next few months....just minutes after he was in the Rose Garden predicting a very bloody summer.

I am far superior to them in honesty and morality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That's just your impression of the bill. I don't share it.
I'm just as concerned and committed to ending the occupation as you are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I referred to this accusation of sophistry.
"The poster doesn't get moral superiority over those who voted for the supplemental as the effect of withholding the funds didn't look like it would have any effect on Bush at all. The question of support for the timetables that were removed from that particular bill still stands, and the majority of legislators who voted in favor of the one supplemental bill will still vote in favor of any bill which contains an exit date."

Yes, I do get moral superiority because I am speaking out...they are not.

I do get moral superiority because I have spoken out all along....they have not.

I responded to the person who accused the OP of sophistry. I took that insult to myself and responded.

We gave Bush 4 months to do whatever he wants, and we said here take this 100 billion to do it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Those of us who are upset with this photo would be even more upset
Edited on Fri May-25-07 12:43 PM by truedelphi
When reading the prepared reports of those in the military preparing the next big "plan of Operations"

There are entire paragraphs that say things like "We did kill the wrong people at the wrong time and place, but now we will be avoiding operations against the wrong people." (I am paraphrasing - but they actually did use the expression "killed the wrong people" !!)

What if it was their babies that were the "wrong people." Tens of thousands of their babies.

To the commanders in the military - it all just so much "collateral damage"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kicked and recommended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. k&r...n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mediawatch Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. this reminds me of a story I heard last week in class
One of the guys in my class spent time in Iraq as a contractor. He stayed on the bases we have built there. In any event he would travel with our Military to get from one place to another. He told me a story of how "they" (not sure who "they" are) would send children out in front of a convoy to set them up for an ambush or set off an IED. (Not sure if my terminology is correct, so forgive me) Word came down not to stop for the children. The images that started flashing in my mind made me sick. I had more questions to ask him, but became speechless. This post just brought this back to my mind. The class was only a week long, so I will never see this guy again.

BTW we have piss ah bases in Iraq.They are huge and all the comforts of home. Including Burger King, package stores, oh and the grass is green and life is good:sarcasm: I am thinking of vacationing there myself.

sarcasm aside, that was how he spoke of the bases
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. I want to respond to the accusation of "sophistry".
Edited on Fri May-25-07 04:40 PM by madfloridian
Because it really dug into my being that someone would use that term when we have already been responsible for the deaths (that we know of) of over 600,000 Iraqi civilians.

Think about the immensity of that. Think about the fact that our Democrats who are in control of congress gave Bush 100 billion and 4 months to continue to kill Iraqis.

Here is the definition of sophistry for those who did not truly understand the insult toward those of us who are softhearted.

soph·ist·ry /ˈsɒfəstri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ries. 1. a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
2. a false argument; sophism.


For caring about all the deaths that will happen in that time frame, the OP was insulted because they cared deeply.

There should be an apology for that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I will apologize for the other poster -
It would be sophistry only if we posted a picture of a child to get donations for a middle-class family that didn't need the money. That would be misleading use of a child's picture.

What I was trying to do, what you were doing - I presume - was trying to make BIG numbers, BIG suffering real, covered with flesh, obviously innocent, with big brown eyes.

I am heart sick. I have been for a long time. I know I won't quit. I know I am disgusted with everyone I pass on the street -- all of whom, I assume, didn't bother to call D.C. Of course, most DUers didn't call DC either.

I'll go to bed tonight and think about the fact that there are no bombs falling here and I won't feel lucky, I'll feel sick.

I'll walk my dogs tomorrow in the park with lots of little kids playing and I'll think of Iraq.

I'll go to the grocery and I'll think of Iraq and their food shortages.

I'll drop by the drug store and look at the aisles of products and feel enraged - swollen - over-ripe - overwhelmed with THINGS that we don't need.

I'll continue fantasizing about the July 4th parade where our local Congressmember may appear -- "Hey, hey Baron Hill - how many kids do you want to kill?"

I appreciate what you were trying to do madfloridian - I ask that you keep doing it and everything else you do off of this board. :hug:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. People don't want to be confronted with the faces.
That makes it harder if you see the faces. I would imagine it is easier to kill if you don't think of them as people.

I understand the troops cheered when they heard they got their funding. I wonder if they realize it will never end, and their buddies will just keep going back over and over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. And thank you for the kind words
and for apologizing for someone else. That was nice. It was such a strange thing to have that said about me...I have been called many things but not that.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC