Has anyone seen these...?

[bliss_eternal]

People are using these tickers and calendars at the bottom of their posts as signatures and avatars (from link below). (I haven't seen them on DU, just on a couple of other sites I visit from time to time).

As one that was once studying to be a nurse and considered a midwifery path, I totally understand the fascination with tracking one's growth cycle--the excitement, etc. As a pro-choice person that see's support for this stance diminished constanctly, I find such avatars obnoxious and kind of offensive. Is this crazy of me? It just seems so "in your face". A little too much information for my taste, and I usually don't care about stuff like that (what's in one's profile, signature, etc.) Maybe I'm being paranoid, but the existence of this site and such "avatars" also seems a not so subtle assault on "choice." Is it wrong of me to think this?

I do feel kind of conflicted about this though. :crazy: As the people using them probably just see them as a fun way to celebrate their pending birth. :shrug: I don't know, maybe I'm just getting burnt out on all of the ways the right and the forced birthers seem to get women and "mommies to be" in a frenzy while simultaneously kicking us in the shins, if that makes sense.

If you've seen these anywhere, what do you think? I'm sincerely curious.

http://pregnancy.baby-gaga.com/

[smokey nj]

1. I haven't seen them, but when I first started reading your post my first thought

oh great more propaganda from anti-choice freaks. I guess it depends on who's using them if it's a woman who's gestating, great. If it's a man whose wife is gestating, I'd tell him to give it up - you're not pregnant, your wife is! Personally, I prefer pictures of pets but I'm an animal lover.

[bliss_eternal]

2. The first time I saw one...

...on a person's post, I honestly disliked it. I didn't feel like, "oooh, how sweet--how lovely."
I felt more like,"...what is this shit?" Like if I had the power to place that person on ignore, to NOT have to see their gestation meter, I would have.

That probably sounds really rude of me, but it's honestly how I felt. It feels and looks more like propaganda to me than a celebration of someone's process.

Argh...I hate even thinking this way. :banghead:

I should explain where that comes from. I'll try...
...on one hand, I'm pleased that anyone is happily anticipating bringing life into the world. One the other hand, a calendar like that looks weird and kind of obnoxious to me because of how I've seen them used in the past. It really smacks of the kind of crap I've seen outside of clinics for too many years. The people using them in their signature lines on-line may sincerely not be aware of the history of such imagery, and perhaps sincerely just happily tracking their cycle for fun...

...but I DO KNOW and HAVE seen them shaking them, and thrusting them in the faces of women just trying to get birth control at a clinic. Images like that (and worse) are used to scare and mislead women. I don't like that.

On edit, pet pics are WAY cuter and don't feel like the person is making some sort of statement against my personal beliefs and the rights of women in general. :shrug:

[smokey nj]

3. I do too and it's telling that we both had the same inital reaction.

I hope they don't start popping up around here, GD will be a freakin' nightmare.

[bliss_eternal]

4. Oh, I agree.

I'm going to hold positive thoughts about the prospect, though. Technically, it may be against the rules here to use such images. From the rules on avatar images, etc.:

Your username, signature line, and avatar image

Members have the option of including a short signature line at the end of each post, and donors have the option of uploading a small avatar image which appears in the margin next to each post.

Your signature line and your avatar image must adhere to the community standards for this message board. Do not use your signature line or avatar image as a means to disrupt the message board. If either your signature line or avatar image is judged to be disruptive, you will be asked to remove it or change it. The administrators have the final authority to decide what is considered disruptive.


If something like that wasn't deemed as disruptive and a blatant attack on pro-choicers--I'd put every last person that used it on ignore. Seriously. Not about to stress myself out over other's poor taste. ;)

[Control-Z]

5. I have three beautiful children.

I tracked their growth during pregnancy - read every book I could get my hands on - anticipated all the milestones; feeling that first flutter, then later the real kicks... I imagined their size at any given time and how they looked or how I hoped they looked, how the books said they should look. With my first I was sure I was carrying an alien the entire pregnancy - freaked out of my mind - until she came out perfect.

I get it - the excitement. I understand the joy of carrying a child that is wanted and what it is like to anticipate its arrival.

But these avatars are offensive to me too. Celebrating a pregnancy should not give me a bad feeling, I know, but this reeks of just another anti-choice campaign. I could be wrong. It doesn't really matter, they have managed to cheapen motherhood with their endless assaults on choice.

[bliss_eternal]

9. You expressed this so well...

...the anticipation and excitement of impending birth, motherhood, etc. I get it. Seriously, I do. I was a bit of a birth junkie for a while. I was WAY into the whole process and even wanted to be a doula so I could support women in birth, and work toward being a midwife. I still stay abreast of issues in regard to birth and keeping women's choices throughout that process THEIRS. I'm hearing too many stories about forced c-sections again, but that's another issue and thread (sigh)for another day.

Anyway, I really appreciate your weighing in on this--dA. To see you put some of what I was feeling about this into words makes me feel a bit better about it. :hi::hug:

[Katherine Brengle]

6. I actually think it's cute.

I see no reason for a woman not to celebrate her pregnancy. I had one when I was pregnant and it just made me smile.

[smokey nj]

7. I guess it's best to keep an open mind, it's just difficult sometimes since

the forced birth crowd hijacked fetal images. Wingnuts did the same with the American flag after 9/11 It's died down some, but when the wave of nationalism started seeing American flags everywhere really gave me the creeps.

[Katherine Brengle]

8. I absolutely understand --

I honestly never even made the connection to be honest, but I've also grown up in an area where things like clinic protests are more or less unheard of, so I've never seen that shit firsthand.

I guess in my perfect feminist utopia, all decisions a woman can make would be valid just as men's decisions are, and we wouldn't ever have to feel negativity toward these kinds of images because no one would use them for nefarious purposes.

:(

[bliss_eternal]

10. You're really fortunate..

...to not see that sort of stuff frequently. I've been seeing that stuff since the late 80's (the reagan years) when he found a way to make their terrorism legal. Somehow the legislation of their presence made their imagery worse.

I've seen it all--the fetus on a stick that they wave at you as you walk by--the growth charts, the butchered weeping fetus in a bottle (I'm not making this up), the posters with fetus's begging to not be aborted.

Here, whether you go to a clinic outside of an urban area or not--they are a constant. They're always there--like they live or work there.

[supernova]

11. I think they're kinda cute

I've only ever seen them in the context of someone being excited about their pregnancy. I haven't spent a lot of time w/ pro lifers so I'm not familiar with them in that sense. Though I am aware that they love the whole stages of a fetus theme. I've only ever seen very young mothers do this though, like w/ a first pregnancy. I could be wrong.

I think one thing those tickers are good for is they are good for is keeping people from repeatedly asking when you're due, how far along are you, etc.

OTOH, if you wanted to do something like that at DU, perhaps just a little script at the bottom counting the days or something would be quite tasteful. :-)

[Ilsa]

12. It tends to be really bad for first-timers, I think. I've seen the tickers, too.

I don't consider it an assault on choice, though, just an abundance of exhuberation over a pretty natural part of life. The plus side is that this is a person who might be a really great mom to a baby.

[bliss_eternal]

13. I really appreciate your perspective, Ilsa...

:hi:...and totally understand your stance. I agree with you for the most part, and glad you weighed in on this.
I felt pretty conflicted in terms of my feelings on this when I started this thread(as I shared above).

I'm never going to knock someone for being excited to become a parent. That's a very good thing. :thumbsup:

The more I think about it, I realize that my concern is primarily with who may be behind the creation of the tickers, if that makes sense. Who and what is behind it--why they made them, etc. This concerns me far more than those that are using them. Though, honestly I'm still not comfortable with seeing them frequently on boards I visit.

I guess part of what bothers me about this is the fact it does seem so "cute, fun and harmless."

In my opinion this sort of thing wouldn't exist at all if it weren't feeding an obsession on society's part with "the fetus." This romanticization and sneaky effort (on the part of the religious right and anti-choicers) to give the fetus an identity, and spoon feeding their agend to the masses for acceptance. Sneaking imagery like this into a seemingly "fun" format and targeting mom's to be feels wrong and kind of evil to me. For me it seems they are getting support for their "fetal rights" political agenda without having to do much at all. But of course, maybe I'm thinking way too much about it all, I don't know. :shrug:

I'm also really concerned that imagery like this is a contributing factor in why some people have issues with stem cell research.

But again...:shrug:

[Ilsa]

14. I agree, and think there is excessive preoccupation with it.

I dunno, maybe there is someone behind alot of these internet "visual toys" that is trying to influence women's perspective. Maybe the ones who like them and use them are more likely to go the ati-choice route, whereas those that don't, tend to be pro-choice. I think it bears some observation.

I wouldn't want to see the tickers all the time either. One person that I saw use it had some nasty baby blues after the baby was born -- she was upset about not getting the special attention she had been getting for her first baby. She admitted this. I think she regained her perspective, and hasn't been as overbearing with her second pregnancy. I think it was like getting special attention because she was ill, but she finally came to terms that she was "normal". Maybe using them is more of a selfish vanity.

[bliss_eternal]

15. That's interesting and is something to consider, too...

...the societal culture of pregnancy. I was alarmed to see the big corporations realize there was $$$ in maternity. Now pregnancy is pitched like it's "the thing to do and be" for women, which pretty much pisses me off. There's so many women that are vulnerable to such pressure and feel inadequate when they aren't fulfilling some societal ideal--as presented to us by tv ads, magazines, advertising, retail, etc. :eyes:

What about women that choose not to have children? What of those that can't or are unable? Which brings up the whole fertility industry, that is making a mint helping women have babies. The message seems to be--have a baby at all costs, even when it's expensive, puts you in debt, is incredibly painful and very difficult. That message troubles me. It again, goes back to this societal obsession with "the fetus" and turning women into baby machines. They've found ways to pitch it and make it all seem so trendy and appealing (for those susceptible to such suggestions). :eyes:

It's interesting you brought up the "let down" after giving birth, from all the attention one gets during a pregnancy. I've seen women get caught up in that, and feel the need to repeat it over and over again. They're not that interested in the kids once they are here, they just don't seem to know any other way to fill that void in their lives. :(

[Ilsa]

16. I think the fertility industry was responding to a need generated

by older clientele, mostly, and I understand how they could really "use" them for experimental treatments and charge them out the wha-zoo for services, almost as if you have a better outcome the more you pay, which is ridiculous. I think this might have been an offshoot of "you can have it all, baby." It is a troubling message, and an unnecessary one. Women don't have to have babies to feel complete or have a full life.

Here's an interesting fact or old fact or former fact about fertility which is an incredible irony: one of the hormones they used (or maybe still do) is derived from the urine of nuns living in Italy or some place. Bizarre -- I would think they would protest their urine being used like this.

My husband and I took a more reasonable approach to using fertility when we went that route: we decided we weren't going to go into huge debt or spend our savings to make a baby. I wasn't going to do in vitro. If we still wanted a baby after a few unsuccessful and less expensive fertility trials, we would look at adopting an older child.

BTW, there are some poor outcomes for some of these women that have had ovary stimulation: there appears to be a higher rate of ovarian cancer. Also, there tends to be a slightly higher rate of birth defects of children born after the eggs or sperm was manipulated in some way (in a test tube, etc). At least, that was a factor reported 5-10 years ago.

I'll be back around on Sunday. I won't be able to chat any more until then at the earliest.

[bliss_eternal]

17. Whoa---interesting information!

Thanks, Ilsa! :) I didn't know some of the things you mentioned about in-vitro fertilization (possible link to ovarian cancer)--scary stuff. And the nun urine. :scared: Yikes! I had heard a bit about some of the birth defects,but not all the details so I appreciate that info. too.

You and your dh sound like me and mine. We aren't thinking about kids right now, but have decided if we ever are, we will adopt. Lots of kids already here that need loving parents. Giving birth isn't a prerequisite to my loving someone, or considering it my family. ;)

Enjoy your weekend, and if you have more to share on this I'll look for your thoughts on Sunday. :hi:

[Ilsa]

18. posting using Blackjack phone...

I should do more research on the nun thing; I think it was hcg - human chorionic gonadotropin.

I have a new friend who is mormon and her husband is Catholic. big family. she adopted an autistic foster child. I love her for doing that. her youngest has Downs syndrome. occasionally I meet people who defy my stereotypes.