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Magbana: Wash Post Thinks the Past 4 Months in Honduras Have Been About Chavez

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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 12:46 PM
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Magbana: Wash Post Thinks the Past 4 Months in Honduras Have Been About Chavez
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 12:58 PM
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1. Excellent comments. The best. Direct. Well armed with the truth.
The Post is as malignant toward democracies as the Washington Times, owned by George H. W. Bush's close buddy: it's simply more skilled.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 02:58 PM
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2. LOL! The Washington Pisst headline is a screamer!
The Pisst: “A Win in Honduras: How the Obama Administration Outmaneuvered Hugo Chavez.”

Chavez is meanwhile having a big celebration with Lula da Silva of Brazil, over da Silva's stomping of the rightwing CIA assets in the Brazilian senate who have been blockading Venezuela's entry into the Mercosur trade group--and about all the big economic deals that are now going forward between Venezuela and Brazil.

Our Corporate Rulers may have their little victories--a leftist shot in the face here, a leftist raped there--but they have in fact been way outmaneuvered by the leftist democracy movement in Latin America and its elected leaders, and Obama/Clinton's intention of turning this around has been significantly sabotaged not only by the far right corpo-fascists here but also by their own failure in Honduras (whether on purpose--that is, collusively--or not--I really am not sure yet what went down). They are touting it as a victory. It is not. For one thing, it comes after the Junta robbed Zelaya and Honduran voters of four months of his term. If they have so much clout in Honduras--the economic hammers they used on the golpistas this week--why didn't they exercise it four months ago? Neither the Honduran people, nor anybody else in Latin America, is going to forget that. And when reform comes to Honduras--which it will do--it's going to be reform that is even more opposed to US corporate and war profiteer interests. That is the upshot of what occurred--too little, too late--and everybody knows it, and furthermore there are widespread suspicions that this was "Obama's coup." The far rightwing here (and its NYT operatives) may be crowing about that devious little psyops triumph, but Obama/Clinton have only themselves to blame for acting so slowly and with complete absence of regard for the people of Honduras. It is a dismaying performance, even if you give Obama considerable benefits of the doubt, like I do.

With Clinton, it's not a matter of doubt. It's clear what she's up to--she wants to bring back Bill's era of "free trade for the rich," as the solution to everything, and also doesn't mind if Bushwhacks pave the way with blood, as long as it's not on her hands. However, Latin America has gone way beyond that, into the 21st century. US "free trade" decimated Latin America, and they are never going back there. They are onto political/economic integration and their own "common market." The Bushwhacks want to stop it with an oil war in South America. Clinton is playing along with this, letting the psyops go forward and the war assets be put in place--because she is beholden to war profiteers and because it provides a handy threat with which to bully Latin America back into "free trade." I think she is the servant of corporate interests, but is not particularly war-like. My "benefits of the doubt" are for Obama. I think he may have more sympathy with the poor, and a more genuine desire for peace. In the cauldron of corruption that is Washington DC, people like that--good people--quickly drown. He is determined not to be drowned, and has made some deals that keep him and his 'hope' just at nose level in the goo. Probably a losing battle. But that's why I give him points. People like John McCain, James Baker, Jim DeMint, John Negroponte and Bushwhack moles in the Pentagon and elsewhere are actively trying to push his head under. Yes, he put himself there. But I'm not ready to kick him off the island of the good, just because he made deals to become emperor. He's only been in office a year--or not even yet a year--and I'm sure still doesn't have anything close to full control of this government and all of its mildewy caves.

On Honduras, I think he has learned a thing or two about his enemies, and I think there was a rising curve of Obama's grasp of the situation, and his control of US operatives, from June to now, but...too little, too late. He never got full control of those who were feeding the golpistas the "stay the course" message. And the tenuous deal that was just brokered may still fall apart. Bushwhacks think they have gotten their vulture talons on Honduras and they may not let go. I don't agree that it was "Obama's coup." I think it is much more complex than that, with a lot of events hard to see. It is no triumph, but neither is it evidence that Obama has gone to the Dark Side. I think that's a misread, and it also serves far rightwing purposes for the left just to write off Obama and not understand the internal struggles that are going on within our government. (A while ago, Chavez said, "Obama is the prisoner of the Pentagon." I think this was in reference to the seven new US military bases in Colombia. But it has general application, and was a smart bit of truth-telling.)
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Brazil's Senate Leader, Sarney, wants to vote no
Sarney, who leads the Brazilian Senate, wants them to vote no when it comes to a full vote. Wagging tongues say the Brazilian left leans to OPPOSE Venezuelan membership in Mercosur, and it's the right wing and business interests pushing for membership, because they smell profits to be had in Venezuela.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. We're all prisoners of the Pentagon.
But you have to hand it to the editorial board for choosing the most self-congratulatory spun headline ever.

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