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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 03:24 PM
Original message
"Obama's Right, Cranky Liberals Need To Be More Realistic"
http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/susan-milligan/2010/09/30/obamas-right-cranky-liberals-need-to-be-more-realistic


...Despite a toxic partisan environment on Capitol Hill, Obama has delivered on much of what he promised to accomplish. But it’s still not enough for the party’s cranky left flank, which seems to believe that the president can get whatever he wants just because he’s president. That’s a view, notably, that incensed the left during the presidency of George W. Bush, an administration progressives accused of asserting way too much executive power.

So Obama gets a healthcare package passed, succeeding where predecessors had failed for 40 years. The left is complaining that Obama didn’t try hard enough for a public option. Nice in theory; dead wrong in reality. The Senate would never have passed such a provision, and insisting on it would have left Obama with exactly what Sen. Edward M. Kennedy had when he battled with former President Nixon on healthcare: nothing. Kennedy once told me that one of his greatest regrets is that he didn’t cut a deal with Nixon on healthcare then--at least, Kennedy said a few years before he died, they would have had a structure for some kind of universal healthcare. Details could be improved in later years, he said, but it’s rare when the momentum and political climate exist to pass a big piece of legislation. Obama--not much older than Kennedy was when the Massachusetts senator was sticking to his demands for a straight-up national healthcare program--figured that out earlier, and got a bill. Conservatives hate it, and that’s valid. But for progressives to suggest that Obama could have gotten something more sweeping through Congress is exasperatingly naïve.


Meanwhile, Obama has managed to sign into law a credit card reform package, an equal-pay law, and a financial services regulation package. The last item is another disappointment for progressives, who wanted a tougher bill. They might have gotten one written up, but it never would have passed Congress.

By definition, when a party has majorities as big as the Democrats now enjoy, a substantial chunk of the caucus is this close to being on the other side of the aisle. Democrats, for much of the healthcare debate, had 60 votes in the Senate. But this is not a 60-40 country, ideologically, and so some of nominally Democratic seats are held by moderate-to-conservative lawmakers. Progressives could work to defeat those conservative Democrats, and in some cases, have indeed tried to do so in primaries. But in most cases, the only candidate those districts will pick to replace a conservative Democrat is an actual Republican.

Obama, in an upcoming interview with Rolling Stone, summed up his approach nicely:

You've got to make a set of decisions in terms of "What are we trying to do here? Are we trying to just keep everybody ginned up for the next election, or at some point do you try to win elections because you're actually trying to govern?" I made a decision early on in my presidency that if I had an opportunity to do things that would make a difference for years to come, I'm going to go ahead and take it.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. maybe they need to be more sensible as well
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displacedvermoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I had a "cranky left flank" steak the other night and it was pretty
tasty. It was the sensible choice on the menu.
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nice in theory?
But not in reality? (Regarding the sell out on public option). Why don't you just keep bending over and taking it? But I, for one, refuse to.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's telling,
Digging up something from US News and World Report.
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displacedvermoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. More "'sensible" than FDL or any of those "cranky"
liberal thingees.
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
57. those people aren't even real Liberals
if they were, the only thing that would matter fuck all to them would be helping people as much as possible given the limitations of current circumstance, hobbling the Dem party at every chance and working to put Repigs in power is the opposite of that.

some folks are just Brians, the issues don't mean shit to them, all they care about is their holier-than-thou anti-establishment pose cuz its so cool-fuck the people who are actually being helped by the Dem agenda ( I meet those people every day) -no, it's all about feeling superior to others, condescending and talking shit all day, making shit up if you have to and ingoring every single last good thing accomplished because it doesn't play into the pre-concieved narrative.

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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. I'm one of those cranky liberals
Edited on Mon Oct-04-10 06:02 PM by crim son
and your characterization couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm reminded of the days when I used to listen to Limbaugh tell his listeners what Liberals thought. It was and no doubt still is pure crap, but it suited his agenda.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kick for realism. n/t
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. Rec'd and would rec a zillion times if possible
and :kick:
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is about as clear and concise and fair as any comment I have seen on this issue..
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 04:21 PM by DCBob
Well done Susan Milligan! :thumbsup:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. The liberals vote for Democats like Meek
How's that going with Crist these days? Still pushing Charlie over the Democratic candidate? No one on the left would ever vote for such a Palin loving wretch.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bullshit. It wasn't cranky leftists who forced Obama to say, "I will sign no HC Reform without the
public option."

He himself said it, before and after the election. Ted Kennedy held out for "medicare for all" which is why it failed. That's not even close to what we got with Obama's health INSURANCE reform.

GW Bush got practically everything he wanted -- except thank GOD! privatizing Social Security -- and the son of a bitch wasn't even elected by a majority.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I would love to recommend your post
I love this part "the son of a bitch wasn't even elected by a majority." So true.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. Why dog you bother coming to DU
If you don't support democratic principles more than personalities with D beside their name.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. You do assume too much. I am a registered Independent who votes for the Democrat that is more
progressive. I will not support a DLCer or a Blue Dog. Luckily I live in a pretty liberal/progressive district, so I don't have to worry about that.

But I have voted for the Greens over Democrats. In fact I voted for Nader, going against the party and got dogged out so much for that. My hero is FDR (and his lovely First Lady in your avy), not Bill Clinton.

I'm suggesting that there is too much to lose in this election. Yes, be angry with the Democrats and hold their feet to the fire. But support them in this election.

Obama was not my first choice. He wasn't even my last, which to my chagrin, everyone assumed that ALL blacks just supported Obama because of his race. Not true! At least not with me. I was a Kucinich girl all the way. When he left the party, I moved to Edwards, sadly. I could not support Hillary because of her policies, namely stance on the war, her seemingly more hawkish stance on Iran in general, and the fact that she and her husband is a DLCer.

So, no. You're wrong. And you assume too much.

I have indeed bucked my party many times.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
62. Then you were not clear.
I see your post was deleted so I can't point to specific lines, but in your post you asked why that person comes to DU if he/she wants to complain about Obama. That post doesn't jibe with what you write here.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. It wasn't even Obama who said that.
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 10:38 PM by boppers
Cute mis-quote, out of context, putting words into his mouth?

"(A)ny plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans - including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest - and choose what's best for your family."

Take your pick, none of them are close to your quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/18/AR2009081803652.html

edit: fix markup error
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. here ya go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acc6Wn_BWlk

"Any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange, including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest."
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. "I will sign no" does not appear in that sentence.
...and the plan he *did* sign has an insurance exchange.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Google is your friend:
Edited on Fri Oct-01-10 05:54 PM by mistertrickster
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. "I will sign no" does not appear in that text, either.
Oh, and the section you bolded deleted a hunk of words from the context, specifically, "an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans – including"

So:
On edit--I accept... that I had deliberately misquoted Obama.

See how that works?

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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Seriously, bop. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Edited on Sun Oct-03-10 10:48 AM by mistertrickster
the President said that “any plan” he signs “must include . . . a public option.” <7/17/09> which means exactly the same as "he said he will sign no bill that does not include a public option."

I will not buy any car without an air bag means exactly the same thing as the car I buy must have an air bag.

Dude, this is my last post on this topic, because if you're going to go all Red Queen in "Alice in Wonderland" there's no point in continuing the conversation.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. you better be done, mistertrickster
else I will kick your ass for arguing with a table leg
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. LOL, nt
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. And then the Senate blocked it.
So you should be blaming the Senate. I don't see how the fact that Obama wanted the public option refutes anything in the column.
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
60. blaming the Senate is harder
simple minds need simple scape-goats
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
49. +1000. nt
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks for being sensible, Punxatawney Phil!!
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 05:24 PM by madinmaryland


:D
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. this is getting truly boring
you're not changing anyone's minds with this shit
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Don't worry- the legions of "centrist" and "moderate" activists will pick up the slack.
Right?
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Liberal activists like me who aren't from the Whiny, Cranky Wing of the Democratic Party will, too.
Lots of us are members of OFA and are GOTVing for the Democratic Party right now.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. In that case, Obama and Biden should not worry so much about calling them out.
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 07:59 PM by Dr Fate
The whiny types could only be a tiny sliver of the party. But for such a teeny, tiny minority of cranky whiners, Obama & Biden sure think they need to be around.

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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Um, that's a misleading statement. Only VP Biden mentioned "whining". And boy did it hit a nerve!
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 08:31 PM by ClarkUSA
Furthermore, VP Biden saying, "Stop whining" in the middle of a campaign event is hardly "calling them out". :eyes:

The OP author is the person that coined "cranky liberals" so don't falsely ascribe it to the WH although the term
"liberals" doesn't apply to the legions of PUMAs who make up a large portion of 24/7 critics who attack President
Obama, considering they supported a DLC candidate.

The President and the VP want all hands on deck to help the Democratic Party win these midterms (or at least
temper the losses) and all Democrats voting in the midterms. That's their message but too many wounded egos
(see Cenk The Young Turkey) and bitter resentments dating back to July 2008 (see PUMA Jane Hamsher and her
fans) are ignoring it in favor of staying Perpetually Outraged, which kinda proves President Obama and Biden right.


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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. No. But so long as you think all this type of talk will get votes and set a positive example, great.
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 08:46 PM by Dr Fate
I hope you are right.

Seems to me like The White House wants these so-called "whiners" ( quoting VP Biden) and "professional left" (quoting WH press secretary) and "f@^&%&*^ retard"(quoting WH Chief of Staff) types to vote and GOTV for the DEMS, and we are talking about the fact that the WH has called out the base on that.


I dont think I'm misleading anyone, but I could see how the accusation would make a sexy post in a thread.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. If Biden telling some cranks to "Stop whining" keeps them for voting for Democrats...
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 08:56 PM by ClarkUSA
... then they weren't for real, anyway, Dr. Fate.

I guess the whiners wanna keep whining and feel like victims instead of getting off their Democratic asses and doing something constructive to help the Party win, like GOTV. For some, playing victim makes for more "sexy post in a thread" or OP or professional media whore headline or ratings/attention whore TV appearance.

Too bad more attention isn't paid to the control of the Congress by the minority Republicans and their rhetoric. President Obama has been calling Republicans out since he started campaigning. If you don't believe me, check out the videos and texts of every speech he's made since Labor Day. But the shit-stirring professional media whiners and their fans never pay attention to a damned thing President Obama says that contradicts their 24/7 negative opinion of him or the administration. That's what makes these folks whiners; they're dishonest critics. That's why VP Biden decided to note their "contribution" with an admonition, which hit a nerve, and I'm glad it did, because the Democratic Party shouldn't enable their Whiny, Cranky Wing the way the Republican Party does with their Teabagger Wing.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. LOL! Since when do we reject votes from people who are "not for real?"
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 09:01 PM by Dr Fate
Talk about impractical idealism!

I thought we coveted swing voters? You know, types who make up their minds at the last minute over some bull shit comment or news item?

A vote is a vote.

Again, so long as you think this kind of talk is good strategy, great. I have my doubts, but I hope you are right.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It's their choice.
Edited on Thu Sep-30-10 09:14 PM by ClarkUSA
<< I thought we coveted swing voters? >>

"swing voters" are independents, not Perpetually Outraged "Liberals" with wounded egos, many of whom never liked Pres. Obama in the first place

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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. yup yup
plenty of hardcore Liberal activists who are actually really excited about the pogress thus far and excited about being a big part of supporting the Dems so we can have some more progress.

We aren't expecting justice to be handed to us, we're expecting it to be a long hard fight, with lots of disappointments and bumps, but that's ok, we stick it out.

I guess some other's can't resist the urge to do the victim dance.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. They're the ones leaving.
The centrists, moderates and independents are the ones that are going to switch parties.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. Keep fucking that chicken. (n/t)
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martymar64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
65. Reved!
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
24. Now there's a winner of an argument that's prefectly suitable to the political and economic climate
LOL.

I actually hadn't realized that US News & World Report is still published.

Figured they went the way of the dinosaur in the aftermath of the GFC.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
27. the beatings will continue until morale improves
yet another motivational lecture from the solidarity police.

We are going to get our asses handed to us in a month not because the left wing is not going to vote, but because the middle has rediscovered its inner nazi, as they did in 94, and vast hordes of angry white suburban males are going to go and vote against something or other.
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Mefistofeles Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
28. And the name-calling continues
Edited on Fri Oct-01-10 09:59 AM by Mefistofeles
Way to motivate.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Are you really that sensitive?
Why interpret that as an insult, it's a general statement.

I notice there is no response to Obama's perfectly valid point, either. Just I've been insulted, boo hoo. Poor me. Poor victim of mean old Obama.

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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
54. I'm not the victim
People who lose elections or go down unfavorably in history based on their own actions are their own victims. As Dubya predicted --probably one of the only true things he ever said-- we'll see how history judges all these pols.

And as for victimhood, why is it that all y'all get soo butthurt over my posts --not personal, but over policies and over deliberate insults to US-- that you can't wait to run to a mod with your the most powerful man on the planet and his corporate cronies are being attacked by some peon lesbian on DU!" stories? :shrug:

You personally endure such terrible injustice. :cry:
Why, the poor, hungry, homeless, unemployed and disenfranchised in this country should be ashamed to pick on those powerless (heh, not really) DLC/Reagan politicians I tells ya!

The horror.

The horror.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Dubya?
You're invoking Dubya?

No, you're the one claiming you are so insulted.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Reading comprehension
It's all the rage!
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-10 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
29. Amen!
:kick:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-10 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. Bullshit on a stick.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-03-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
38. Heads will explode in the public option cult.
It's amazing how fixated people are on that. And the funny part is that there was never so much focus on it during the election. This piece is a very strong smackdown of the irrational thinking about Obama's role. It must sting even more to have their line of thought so soundly rejected by Ted Kennedy.

But, it's unfair to criticize liberals in general for it. I think it's a subset of liberals in the Brian Griffin crowd.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Don't you get that a public option might be the difference between
life and death for some people who still can't afford private insurance and may not survive another 4 years when the 'exchanges' are supposed to start?

A cult? What a callous thing to say.

I can only assume you have good, affordable healthcare insurance and don't give a damn about anyone else.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. I think that
the bill has several measures to help people who can't afford insurance. I also think far more people would have died if Obama had held his ground on the public option and gotten no HCR bill at all. Would that have been better?

The march-step way that some in the netroots hold onto that one issue seems very cult-like to me. It's hard for me to get upset over what I see has a half-measure, since the public option itself was only a substitute for what we really need to do, which is to ban for-profit insurance companies.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. No, not everyone qualifies for financial assistance. There are
those who fall into a gap between eligibility for Medicaid and ability to afford private insurance. For those people, 'holding onto that one issue' should be understandable, especially if children are involved.

The 'exchanges' are supposed to address that gap by providing lower cost private plans as a result of creating large pools of people who can negotiate for better rates. Those are supposed to start up in 2014. (It's what Arnold just got going in CA, way ahead of schedule.)

By forcing all healthcare to remain with private insurance companies, there were no cost controls put into place because there is no competition. And prices continue to rise. For instance, feel free to check out the monthly premiums for private plans in my state (NY).

I have never said there aren't good aspects to the bill and that lives won't be saved - they will. But it's important to remember that we are still nowhere near universal coverage in this country and that insurance companies still control everything.

I agree that for-profit insurance companies should become obsolete...that's one of the reasons why a public option was important. It should have been a first step in that direction, taking market share and power away from them. Instead, we've strengthened the insurance companies with a law mandating purchase without any non-profit options.

IMO, we were at a unique point in time, with an administration willing to tackle the issue and a public ready for big, bold change. Instead we got an expansion of the for-profit system. And yes, some lives will be saved, but other Americans will die because they still can't afford healthcare.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. States are still required to offer a non-profit option.
And you left out some of the other financial supports for people in that in-between group.

The bill that passed was still taking a big first step.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. There are very strict requirements for aid and eligibility. There
are people who fall between the cracks and will remain uninsured.

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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
61. you nailed it -a subset of Liberals dont know how to be helpful
you grab any denomination of people, at least 10-15% are gonna turn out to be either painfully stupid or emotionally unabalanced -AMONG DEMS IT'S NO DIFFERENT.

and if I remember correctly, Obama struck a deal with Olympia Snow to have a PO ready to go on a trigger, but no, the FDLers wouldnn't have it -it's not good enough. The only reason why we don't have the PO right now waiting on a trigger is because that 10-15% that had to have it all or nothing. We could of had that PO but the hard-lefters just couldn't accept anything less than EVERYFUCKINTHING they wanted. Think of all the lives that could of been positively effected but wont be now because so many of the left were more worried about their precious ideological purity than actually stepping up to help people in whatever way we could.

not to mention all the people who were convinced anything less that single payer was a betrayal, like there was any way we could wipe out hundreds of thousand of insurance industry jobs in the middle of a huge job crises and not be utterly destroyed at the polls for the next generation?

some people feed on negative energy and want to be emotionally satisfied with empty, stupid rhetorical fights, that's all they want, they could give a fuck about anything else.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
42. You've been reading Dale Carnegie, haven't you?


Give it up. You're doing more harm than good, pal.

NGU.

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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
46. Without the public option
He should have dropped the mandate and cadillac tax. Many progressives and liberals have stated this multiple times. It's not JUST that he failed to get the public option, it is that he failed at that, and added things to which we objected. When the PO went away, the mandate should have gone with it. He shouldn't have given up on the PO with out also dumping the restriction on prescription drug negotiation.

Just once I'd like to see one of these columns actually addressing what a progressive is saying, instead of speaking for a progressive, and then arguing against it. There's a name for that kind of argument.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
48. We'll see how many of these I read one month from today. nt
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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. That's what's so sad.
If the Republicans win big next month, progressives will be blamed for not being motivated enough to get out the vote.

If the Democrats manage to hang on to their majorities in Congress, the "pragmatic centrists" will take all the credit.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. Yep. Notice the spiral pointy thing sticking
Out of your chest. That's the tip of the brass screw they've used to screw you from behind. I think I'll hang a Christmas Tree ornament from mine.
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