"Obama Seeking Aid for Jobless in Deal on Tax Cuts"

[Clio the Leo]

Obama Seeking Aid for Jobless in Deal on Tax Cuts
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and JACKIE CALMES
Published: December 2, 2010

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is holding out for an extension of unemployment assistance and of a variety of expiring tax breaks for low-wage and middle-income workers as part of a deal with Congressional Republicans to extend all the Bush-era tax cuts.

<snip>

Even as lawmakers were debating the bill on the House floor, negotiators, including the Treasury secretary, Timothy F. Geithner, were meeting in talks that all sides expected to end in a temporary extension of the tax rates for all income levels, perhaps for two or three years.

At the White House, administration officials outlined a list of their demands for an extension of expiring tax breaks, including the $800-per-couple “Making Work Pay” tax credit for about 110 million households, a tuition tax credit for 8 million college students, and the earned-income tax credit and child tax credit for 15 million low-income families. They also listed expiring tax breaks for small businesses. They said those tax credits would have a greater impact on the economy than continuing the Bush tax cuts on upper income levels.

And with federal unemployment aid having expired on Tuesday for two million Americans, Mr. Obama is seeking a one-year extension. Senate Republicans on Wednesday blocked an effort by Democrats to take up a bill extending the benefits.

More Americans have been out of work beyond the 26-week period typically covered by state unemployment assistance than at any time in the decades since the government began keeping records. The unemployment assistance at issue is federal emergency aid for people who are unemployed beyond six months.

About 6.2 million Americans have been out of work for 27 weeks or more, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Mr. Obama’s Council on Economic Advisers reported on Thursday that nearly seven million Americans could lose benefits through next November as more people remained out of work for long periods.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/us/03cong.html?_r=2

[emulatorloo]

1. interesting - thanks for posting this. n/t

[bluestateguy]

2. Could come at a very high price

Aid for the unemployment--and this would likely be the last extension given the change in Congress in January--for extending all Bush tax cuts.

[thereismore]

3. The price is only high if the extension of tax breaks for all lasts beyond 2-3 years.

I think it is vitally important that the unemployed get an extension of insurance, and it is vitally important that the Bush tax cuts do not get extended for too long. 2 or 3 years are not that big a deal, actually. 3 years might be better, because I predict democratic majorities everywhere after 2012, plus 2013 is not an election year, so that something sensible could be accomplished re: taxes. I hate to compromise with the fuckers, but Obama is right to do this.

[niceypoo]

22. Ending All Bush-era Tax Cuts Will Bring Budget Near Balance in Four Years

It's a no brainer





Note: These charts show the deficit impact, in billions of dollars (chart 1) and as a percentage of GDP (chart 2), compared to Primary Balance (outlays excluding net interest payments on the debt) of the 4 primary options with regards to the Bush-era tax cuts. They are:

Bush-Era: Extend all Bush-era 2001-03 tax cuts
Obama: President Obama’s proposal – extend Bush-era tax cuts for those with incomes below $200k/ $250k
S-PAYGO: Statutory PAYGO’s (“S-PAYGO”) current policy tax exceptions – which accommodate President Obama’s proposals, but with only 2 years of AMT and estate tax relief
Tax Cuts Expire: Let all Bush-era tax cuts expire (CBO Baseline Data)

http://www.bobbyscott.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=533&Itemid=62

[Fearless]

4. Good god can you stand up for anything?

I mean this is getting embarrassing. They say speak and you bark. This is disgusting. Is the goal to help the American people or make the Democratic Party disappear?

[Recursion]

6. Are repealing the tax cuts more important to you than extending unemployment benefits?

Imagine for a second that we live in a world where you can't do both.

[Fearless]

9. The issue is YOU CAN DO BOTH!! This either/or rule is made up bull crap.

You can have both the middle class tax cuts (not for the rich) AND unemployment insurance.

[Recursion]

10. That's why I said "imagine"

If you were presented that choice, would you choose repealing the tax cuts or extending unemployment benefits?

[Fearless]

11. I don't need to imagine false scenarios. The truth is both can be done and both should be done.

There is no scenario where only one can be done. Period.

[Recursion]

12. *shrug*

I and a lot of people disagree with you. What's your strategy for getting them both passed?

(NB: saying "fight" and talking about "spine" are not strategies)

[Fearless]

13. Make Republicans stand up and filibuster both in an up or down majority vote.

Let them take that home to their constituents. Let their opponents have that ammo next election.

[treestar]

15. So they'll have the ammo "Obama raised taxes on the middle glass."

Which for them is so much better. They have the "guts" to do that.

[Fearless]

18. People are not that stupid.

You make it clear immediately that the only reason that the middle class only tax cuts aren't being passed immediately is because of Republican obstruction. You get everyone to say it, you get the media to show the filibustering, you get interviews with Republicans saying asking why they're filibustering middle class tax breaks framed as such: Why are you forcing middle class tax breaks to end? Or: Why are you supporting the wealthy over the middle class in American? Etc. Then you get the President to address the nation one evening on the crisis. He has to be angry and not calm. Accusatory and not diplomatic. Strong and not weak. He needs to press the point that the WHOLE Democratic Party wants tax cuts for the middle class and that they won't stop until they get them. He must tell the nation to confront Republicans who obstruct this bill. He must, in short, be a leader who cares about the people.

That is what you have to do if you want both. And it will work if Democrats had the spine.

[treestar]

19. Angry black man loses cool

while raising middle class taxes. Hates the wealthy and is a revolutionary Marxist.

[Fearless]

21. President gets things done instead of caving to rich white master. n/t

[treestar]

24. Middle American thinks just like that!

Really! :sarcasm:

Like that's sympathetic to about .0003 percent of voters. I cannot imagine one pundit saying a thing like that. The M$M echo chamber saying a thing like that? LOL.

[Fearless]

28. Americas won't care about either platitude.

This is about people's lives, not about petty politics. The whole angry black man scenario is MSM created. If he shows that he's fighting for the middle class and actually gets things done, the MSM's rants will fall on deaf ears.

[Recursion]

17. That's about to happen tomorrow

But filibusters post-1974 are much less dramatic than people seem to think they are. There will probably be a filibuster (assuming this deal goes nowhere), but it will simply be 41 Republicans voting against cloture.

[Fearless]

20. That's fine. Let them continue to debate. And bring out the attack ads.

Get Democrats up, speaking, ANGRY, and put it on tv.

[Recursion]

25. That's what will happen, except for the attack ads

Nobody's going to spend money on a TV buy at this point in the election cycle. But the debate will continue, speeches will be made, pundits will punditize, and the GOP probably will take a hit on both the tax cuts and START.

[Fearless]

27. It doesn't have to be the pols, there are interest groups who need to organize...

There is money out there for this cause. And it can be won, but most importantly it is lost regardless without trying.

[NYCGirl]

33. And meanwhile, our unemployment runs out. NT

[Fearless]

36. It is going to run out if we do nothing. That's the fact.

[disillusioned73]

37. ...

:applause:

[treestar]

16. If you have the votes for it.

[Fearless]

23. There are enough votes for an up or down vote on the bills.

[Recursion]

26. How do you figure? It takes 60 in the Senate for that

START is more likely because we'll end up being able to flip Lugar, but then the vote itself might fail (first time since Versailles), which would be a hugely bad thing.

[Fearless]

29. Up or down vote does not NECESSARILY require a 2/3 majority. 51-50 is fine

[Recursion]

30. How do you end debate on a debatable motion with 51 votes?

Or is this the "Biden comes in and ends the whole concept of the filibuster" idea?

[Fearless]

31. Same as you do with a filibuster... the Constitutional or "nuclear" option.

[Recursion]

32. Right, well even the GOP didn't want to do that

On the other hand, if you want to pressure your Senator to do that, be my guest. I have trouble believing we'd even get the 50 Democratic votes necessary for that.

[Fearless]

34. To not try is far worse than to fail. This Congress and President has decidedly not tried.

To say that it is too hard so we shouldn't try is unconscionable.

[Recursion]

38. Stirring rhetoric

However, the only way forward you've found is a procedural change so radical that the GOP-controlled Senate was unwilling to do it. And it's a procedural change we would regret mightily the next time the Republicans control the Senate. The path Obama seems to be taking, according to the OP at least, is to trade a temporary extension of the tax cuts for a temporary extension of unemployment. You say this is a non-starter: how does this make you any less obstructionist than the GOP?

[Fearless]

41. We are talking about peoples lives not rhetoric. Procedural votes, bah. Lives are at stake.

[Recursion]

43. Dupe. Self-delete

[Recursion]

44. "Procedural votes, bah"

Are you actually suggesting Reid should simply break the rules of the Senate?

[dflprincess]

45. They are "repealing" anything. The tax cuts are scheduled to expire at the end of year

The issue is whether or not to extend them on income up to $250,000 (or a million per Schumer).

The fact is, we can't afford to extend them to the wealthiest (who will still get a break on the first $250,000 of their incomes). Just once Obama needs to stand up fight for what's right - he can get air time, take the issues to the people and make it clear the Republicans are holding desperate people hostage for the benefit of the wealthy.

[Mass]

5. Otherwise said: blackmail is just fine in the US government.\nt

[Recursion]

8. When do you imagine that hasn't been the case?

Hell, look at the Missouri Compromise some time.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. "PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE STARVING!!!" they say, "DO SOMETHING, OBAMA!!!"

"DON'T GIVE UP ON ELIMINATING TAX CUTS!," they say. "STAND UP, OBAMA!!!"
"THE DEFICIT COMMISSION IS A SHAM!!! THERE IS NO DEFICIT PROBLEM!!!!"
"WE CAN'T ADD $700 BILLION TO THE DEFICIT!!! THERE IS A DEFICIT PROBLEM!!!"

"PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE STARVING!!!"
"DO SOMETHING, OBAMA!!!"
"DON'T DO THAT!!!"
"DO SOMETHING, OBAMA!!!"
"NO, SOMETHING ELSE!!!!"
"DO SOMETHING, OBAMA!!!"
"PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE STARVING!!!"
"LET EVERYTHING EXPIRE!!!"
"PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE STARVING!!!"
"DON'T DO THAT!!!"
"STAND UP, OBAMA!!!"
"PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE STARVING!!!"
"DO SOMETHING, OBAMA!!!"
"NO, SOMETHING ELSE!!!!"
"CAVE!!!"
"LET EVERYTHING EXPIRE!!!"
"DON'T DO THAT!!!"
"DO SOMETHING, OBAMA!!!"
"CAVE!!!"
"DON'T DO THAT!!!"
"PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE STARVING!!!"
"PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE STARVING!!!"
"PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE STARVING!!!"
"PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE STARVING!!!"
"DON'T DO THAT!!!"

Our Dumb Discourse...

[treestar]

14. LOL, so true.

So very, very true!

:rofl: :rofl:

[TwilightGardener]

35. ...

:thumbsup:

[dionysus]

39. !!!!

:spray:

[Imajika]

40. Republicans will love this deal...

They get the Bush tax cuts extended, and largely support the Obama tax cuts and credits anyway - especially Obama's small business tax breaks. Republicans love tax cuts for the top earners, but they also like pretty much any tax cut as in their eyes it starves the government of funds.

So they get pretty much everything they support in exchange for extending Unemployment Insurance which they would have had to do anyway.

It may be that at this late hour, and after losing an election cycle that this is the best the President can do. What is so maddening is we could have fought all this out BEFORE the election and we clearly had the American people with us on the tax cut issue. I still don't get WHY we snuck out of town prior to the election without having this fight. The tax cut issue was so supposed to be the centerpiece of our election strategy - and instead of taking it to the Republicans we surrendered.

[Phx_Dem]

42. So will the unemployed. And college students. n/t