Ever notice that everything President Obama does

[ProSense]

Poll question: Ever notice that everything President Obama does

is the worst thing ever or that he plans to do something horrible in the future?

Robert Kuttner via Politico:

<...>

The second part, now being teed up by the White House and key Senate Democrats, is a scheme for the president to embrace much of the Bowles-Simpson plan — including cuts in Social Security. This is to be unveiled, according to well-placed sources, in the president’s State of the Union address.

<...>

Kuttner via HuffPo:

<...>

Obama, according to well-placed sources, plans to introduce a "tax-simplification" scheme in the State of the Union address -- get rid of tax preferences and lower tax rates, as proposed by the Bowles-Simpson commission, with no net stimulative effect. This is a classic case of trying to change the subject. This might or might not be sensible policy depending on the specifics. But what ails the economy has little to do with the particulars of the tax code.

<...>

Evidently, Kuttner's "well-placed sources" can't make up their minds: Is it cut Social Security or "tax-simplification" with "no net stimulative effect"?

What the hell does that mean? LOL!


Anyway, back to the question: Ever notice that everything President Obama does is the worst thing ever or that he plans to do something horrible in the future?

[ClarkUSA]

1. Yup. It's either demonization or minimization for 24/7 Obama bashers like Kuttner. Is he a PUMA?

[Milo_Bloom]

2. Guess we will know the truth on January 19th 2011

I remember similar posts in the past when we heard rumors he would abandon the public option, embrace the tax cuts for the rich, escalate Afghanistan, leave 50K troops in Iraq. All those were just "rumors" and we shouldn't believe them. Some of them the White House directly contradicted, only to back it up later on. All of them turned into fact over time.

So, this latest rumor will either be true or it won't.

Judging by the usual suspects flipping into damage control mode, it would seem this is true. But we won't know for sure until January 19, 2011.

[polmaven]

65. What am I missing?

It is early, still....so maybe my brain hasn't fully kicked in yet.

What is happening on Janyary 19, 2011? :shrug:

(On edit - Other than the last day of the president's first 2 years in office)

[Milo_Bloom]

70. State of the Union Address.

[polmaven]

71. Oh! Of course!!!

Thank you.......Duh! :silly:

[CakeGrrl]

3. There's a thread where there were several defenses of Clinton and DADT as

"the best deal/compromise he could get at the time".

I wonder if President Obama will get that same consideration as things play out?

To your original question, yes, I do notice that.

And I have a strong suspicion that those who fall over themselves trying to be the first to label his every action a failure or a disaster, no matter which side of the political spectrum they're on, will end up more often than not like the Coyote to the President's Roadrunner.

For all the shrieking that's gone on here for the past several months over various issues, we have today:

A Congressional repeal of DADT
Unemployment benefits extended where they were previously killed by Congressional Republicans
Middle-class tax relief
A TEMPORARY extension of upper-income tax cuts versus the PERMANENT cuts that the next Congress would have tried to shove down our throats and must now campaign to the American people to justify
Republicans being exposed on 9/11 Responders, DREAM, and START as the heartless obstructionists they are

...for starters.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. Grab a calculator and do the math

If taxes aren't raised, cuts will have to be made. Have you checked out the yield on the 10 year Treasury note recently? It has risen dramatically since the tax deal was announced. Why? Because the bond market knows damn well that the US is on an unsustainable path when it comes to the budget. Default is likely if taxes aren't raised and/or cuts aren't made.

Don't forget that Moodys and other credit rating agencies have already come out and said that the tax deal makes US default likely.

The House military budget passed yesterday and it's clear that no politician in Washington, including Obama, plan on cutting defense and ending the wars.

Because of the tax deal with Republicans, there is going to be a huge hole in the budget. Now something has to be cut and the only question is, what?

The US cannot remain on the current path without budget cuts, raised taxes or defaulting on debt. Europe is going through this right now and looking at the 10 year treasury note, the US isn't very far behind.

Reality bites.

[ProSense]

10. "If taxes aren't raised, cuts will have to be made. "

Social Security is in crisis?

Thus far, the President has said no, and has proposed increasing the cap.

[Cali_Democrat]

13. The US budget is in crisis

I never said Social Security was in crisis. Far from it.

With dramatically rising yields and falling bond prices, it's going to be harder and harder for the US government to service debt. Interest rate payment on the debt will only increase. This is exactly what's happening in Europe right now and countries need to be bailed out because they can no longer auction their bonds at reasonable prices.

The US will have to close the budget deficit in some way and with the tax deal and recently passed defense bill, it looks like raising taxes and cutting defense are off the table.

[ProSense]

14. As someone constantly talking about the deficit

it's likely the President is aware of that.

[Cali_Democrat]

17. You're failing to address the central issue

If taxes aren't raised and the defense budget isn't cut, where are we going to get the trillions of dollars to close the deficit over the next several years?

We won't be able to get that money out of thin air. That's why bond prices are falling and yields are rising. The bond market knows it can't be done. As yields continue to spike, it's causing the US to pay more and more to make interest rate payments on money borrowed through treasury notes and bonds.

The tax deal may have been the most ridiculous thing that could have been done in the current environment.

[ProSense]

18. No, I'm not

The budget deficit has nothing to do with the OP.

The President has been very effective in cutting the budget.

"The tax deal may have been the most ridiculous thing that could have been done in the current environment. "

Actually, had the middle class tax cuts been made permanent they would have added $1.4 trillion more to the debt over ten years compared with the tax cuts for the rich.

Tax cuts for the rich are always ridiculous, regardless of the environment.

The purpose of this deal on the Democratic side was to extend relief to millions of low-income, middle-class and unemployed Americans.

Letting the tax cuts expire would have been a much bigger burden on millions of Americans and not good for the economy.




edited typo

[Cali_Democrat]

19. The Predident has been effective in cutting the budget?

What has he cut? Why has the deficit continued to increase?

[ProSense]

22. Well

DEFICIT SHRINKS FROM LAST YEAR'S RECORD....

<...>

What's more, as Stan Collender recently noted, the $122 billion improvement on the deficit "is the biggest one-year nominal drop in the deficit that has ever occurred." We probably won't see headlines blaring, "U.S. achieves biggest one-year deficit reduction in American history," but that just happens to be the case.

<...>

The President is focused on deficit reduction, it's built into everything from health care reform to Wall Street reform.

[Cali_Democrat]

23. 122 billion improvment from last year....still a $1.3 tillion deficit

You do realize that last year was a record deficit, right?

Again, 1.3 trillion is completely unsustainable. Increased tax revenue would have closed this gap dramatically.

You never answered my question. You said the President was effective in making cuts to the budget...

What significant cuts has he made?

[ProSense]

24. Yes, deficits increase

The thing to do is slow the growth, bring it down and eventually erase it. Given the state of the economy and the stimulus and other initiatives, did you expect the deficit to not reflect that?






Edited typos

[Cali_Democrat]

25. Bring down the deficit and eventually erase it? Is that a joke

The total deficit is currently at $14 trillion dollars. So let's say the yearly deficit goes down by about $100 billion like the current year and stands at $1.3 trillion....

2010 -> 14 +1.3 = 15.3 trillion

2011--> 15.3 + 1.2 = 16.5 trillion

2012 --> 16.5 + 1.1 = 17.6 trillion.

So by the end of Obama's first term, the deficit will be 17.6 trillion.

Bring down the deficit and eventually erase it? Huh? How will we erase that 17.6 trillion by 2012 or even by 2050?

You really need to grab a calculator.

[ProSense]

26. What?

Who said anything about 2012?

[Cali_Democrat]

27. I just showed you what the deficit will look like by 2012

You said that the goal is to bring down the deficit and eventually erase it. Those were your words.

Looking at the numbers, how are we going to do that even if the yearly deficit improves by about $100 billion a year? :shrug:

[ProSense]

31. When did

eventually = 2012?

Here were the projection



Looks like he's on track.

[Cali_Democrat]

33. That's the yearly deficit.

How are we going to make a dent in the overall deficit and eventually erase it?

Don't forget about the tax revenue decrease that will result from the retiring baby boomers....

[ProSense]

36. "How are we going to make a dent in the overall deficit and eventually erase it? "

The same way Clinton did.

Eventually.

Tax revenue matters and so does controlling spending.

[Cali_Democrat]

38. That's the point. Clinton had it right when it came to taxes. Bush and Obama have it wrong.

Bush's tax policies are the main cause of the massive deficit and now Obama is continuing Bush's tax policies. He's not going back to Clinton's tax policies.

From the numbers, eventually is definitely not by 2050.

[ProSense]

41. Again

do you think this is the end of deficit reduction?

The President didn't extend the tax cuts for the rich because he wanted to. He has an economy to deal with, and worrying about deficit reduction (killing tax cuts for the rich) when it could put the recovery in jeopardy by eliminating the Democratic side of the package would have been a stupid move.

[Cali_Democrat]

44. It doesn't matter oi Obama wanted to extend the tax cuts or not

The fact remains that they have been extended and it will leave a HUGE hole in the deficit.

Again, I fail to see how any significant deficit reduction is going to take place under these circumstances. The bond market agrees with me and so do the credit rating agencies.

Also, I notice that you're using right wing talking points by saying killing tax cuts for the rich could put the economic recovery in Jeopardy.

[ProSense]

45. "The fact remains that they have been extended and it will leave a HUGE hole in the deficit. "

You don't know that unless you know what other deficit reduction, tax reform he has in mind.

[Cali_Democrat]

55. He's already shown his cards when it comes to tax revenue

At least for the next 2 years until there is another compromise.

The only other way to control the deficit, other than taxes, is spending. What kind of spending is Obama going to cut from the budget?

[Cali_Democrat]

40. " Tax revenue matters and so does controlling spending"

Bush Tax cuts = Less tax revenue.

Controlling spending? What's going to be cut in order to control spending?

[ProSense]

42. "Bush Tax cuts = Less tax revenue."

Middle class tax cuts and stimulus expiring = economic contraction.

[Cali_Democrat]

46. " Middle class tax cuts and stimulus expiring = economic contraction"

Linking the two together is intellectually dishonest. Bush's tax did not lead to increased economic activity and jobs. Did you miss the last 10 years?

Middle class tax cuts expiring causes economic contraction? Before Bush implemented the current tax cuts, our economy was much better off.

Even if our economy did grow because of tax cuts (which has been proven to be bunk)that does not address the issue of the massive budget deficit. Our economy will grow this year, but our deficit continues to expand.

[ProSense]

48. "Linking the two together is intellectually dishonest. " What?

The stimulus was expiring. There were calls for more stimulus.

Stimulus initiatives are part of the package.

Want to talk about intellectual dishonesty?

The Bush tax cuts blew a hole in the deficit, they had nothing to do with crisis.

[Cali_Democrat]

50. Bush tax cuts blew a hole in the deficit and Obama is continuing the tax cuts

That hole will not improve any time soon because of Obama's tax compromise with the Republicans.

[ProSense]

51. "That hole will not improve any time soon because of Obama's tax compromise with the Republicans. "

Again, the middle-class tax cuts extended permanently represented an addition $1.4 trillion more than the tax cuts for the rich.

The $900 billion is a hell of a lot less than the $4 trillion that extending both for ten years represented.

Now, deficit reduction is on the President, and he appears ready to take it on. So nothing is definitive.

[Cali_Democrat]

53. How is Obama going to take on deficit reduction?

Where is he going to get the additional revenue from and where is he going to cut spending?

Do tell.....

[ProSense]

56. So

"Where is he going to get the additional revenue from and where is he going to cut spending?"

...because you don't know means it's impossible?

[Cali_Democrat]

58. The money has to come from somewhere. Through cuts or increased revenue.

You obviously have no idea where it's going to come from. I have no idea. The bond market has no idea (that's why we see rising yields and lower bond prices).

The credit rating agencies have no idea....

Will it magically appear?

[ProSense]

60. Well, if no one has any idea

it's a good thing Obama is President. I'm sure he has a few.

[Cali_Democrat]

62. This response brings us back to my original post in this thread

The cuts have to come from somewhere. If the defense budget won't be cut and taxes won't be increased, closing the deficit will be a tall order to say the least.

[Cali_Democrat]

35. Also, I notice that chart is from 2/1/10

Long before the tax compromise. Obama's projections always included a roll back of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.

[ProSense]

37. Yes,

but you can see the difference between the projection and the reality. This isn't the end of deficit reduction.

[Cali_Democrat]

39. Posting a chart of Obama's projections from 2/1/2010 has no relevance

These projections factored in a roll back of the Bush tax cuts.

[ProSense]

43. "These projections factored in a roll back of the Bush tax cuts. "

And a permanent, not two-year extension of the middle class tax cuts. In any case, the reality is well ahead of the projections.

[Cali_Democrat]

47. How can the reality be ahead of the projections?

IF the projections factored in a roll back of the Bush tax cuts, how can they be accurate now that the Bush tax cuts will continue? Obama's projections included a roll back of tax cuts for the wealthy.

With the tax cut compromise, we will be pulling in much less revenue and thus increasing the annual deficit. Therefore the projections are completely inaccurate.

[ProSense]

49. Is

$1.2 trillion less than $1.5 trillion?

[Cali_Democrat]

52. Obama projected more tax revenue to be pulled in as a result of the expiring tax cuts

That is no longer a viable assumption.

All of those projections will have to be recalculated in order to account for the tax revenue that will not be there because of the tax compromise.

The Bush tax cuts were the single greatest contributor the the Federal budget deficit over the last 10 years and Obama has chosen to continue those policies.

Obama will need to create new projections and charts because the ones you posted are meaningless.

[ProSense]

54. Calculate

$2.8 trillion (10-yr extension middle class tax cuts) - $400 billion (2-year extension both tax cuts) = $2.4 trillion

[Cali_Democrat]

57. Again, going by those numbers, there's still a massive deficit that needs to be addressed

You still haven't given real details on the plan to close this deficit...

[ProSense]

59. "You still haven't given real details on the plan to close this deficit..."

You're waiting for a deficit reduction plan from me?

There were at least four really good progressive plans circulated as alternatives to the deficit commission's.

[Cali_Democrat]

61. Progressive plans included a roll back of the Bush tax cuts and defense cuts

Obama has now taken this off the table. Where else can we get the trillions from? :shrug:

[ProSense]

63. Not a roll back of all the tax cuts. Still,

we'll have to see what the President offers. Neither you nor I can read his mind.

[Cali_Democrat]

64. OK.....we'll see

Should be interesting....

[mkultra]

69. The deficit will not be 17trillion. The debt will be

[patrice]

30. Do you have a cite on "increasing the cap", please? nt

[ProSense]

32. Yes

here

[patrice]

34. Tks!

:hi:

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Why were Simpson and Bowles selected to run the 'Deficit Commission'?

Can you name any two other people from their respective parties who've worked so hard at slashing Social Security?

No coincidence. It's all pretty clear.

[ProSense]

8. Well,

there was speculation that the report was inevitable and Congress would vote on it and cut Social Security. That didn't happen. Report met round file (no vote, no validity).

[MannyGoldstein]

11. Commission's first suggestion already implemented

Pay freeze for federal workers.

Again I ask: why were Simpson and Bowles selected to run the 'Deficit Commission'? Do you disagree that these are the most prominent, outspoken, and storied attackers of Social Security in their respective parties?

[ProSense]

12. Considering that

he implemented other freezes in 2009, no connection.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Different animal entirely

In 2009 the salaries of a few highly-paid aids were frozen. These folks will all be well paid when they move to Wall Street after their time in the White House.

The freeze implemented per the Commission's recommendation effects people who mostly have lower salaries, and who certainly cannot rely on a golden kiss from Goldman Sachs.

And again I ask: Why Simpson and Bowles, the two most outspoken attackers of Social Security? Bowles even cut a deal with Gingrich to slash Social Security! Shame.

[Hello_Kitty]

29. Ah yes, the Potemkin Village Deficit Commission

The 11th dimensional chess feint concocted to fool the GOP that all you DUers could see right through but Alan Simpson totally bought it.

[jenmito]

6. Yes. This morning on The Chris Matthews Show,

Howard Fineman (now with HuffPo claimed
Obama plans to introduce a "tax-simplification" scheme in the State of the Union address" in the "Tell me something I don't know segment."

Fineman ALSO reported, weeks ago, that sources very close to Bloomberg and Scarborough said they're seriously considering running together for POTUS and VPOTUS in '12. Scarborough shot that story down the next morning, adding that he wondered why Fineman wouldn't at least call him to ask if it's true.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pisces]

9. So true. Nothing is ever said that President Obama is planning some great things

for Americans. Negativity 24/7 and they still can't beat the man.

[jaxx]

16. Oh yes, I've noticed.

Whatever he does, it's either not good enough, or the rumors start and the downers insist they are true. When, in fact, the President has moved us along in a most progressive manner.

But fear sells....to those who choose to be scared.

[harun]

67. Whoa, you better check your definition of Progressive.

A Progressive manner is not framing the debate as GOP choice A and B and picking the one the GOP wants less.

Only Progressive things this President has done is the speech in Egypt and getting behind Student Loan reform.

The rest is all DLC, Blue Dog, New Dem nonsense. None of which is Progressive.

[niceypoo]

20. No, but I have noticed that many perceive it that way

Funny that

[CakeGrrl]

21. Funny, coming from

someone whose every other proclamation is that "Obama has abandoned the Left".

Methinks your perspective might be influenced by your own perceptions.

[niceypoo]

28. Naw, I just know drama when I see it

[lunatica]

66. I've noticed that he's said to do things that outrage, but he then isn't doing them

a couple of days later. Like we're getting the FOX News feed first only to have it be a total lie within a few days. I'm learning to stop getting caught up in the knee jerk outrage that ensues after some so-called leak has come out that the President has done another outrage.

[JoePhilly]

68. The GOP and the media want to depress turn out. Period.

The more people that vote, the more democrats win.