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I do not really believe MSNBC should hire only black hosts

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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:01 AM
Original message
I do not really believe MSNBC should hire only black hosts
Edited on Sun Jan-23-11 10:06 AM by Empowerer
as I suggested in another thread. It was a thought experiment.

It would be wrong for a network to hire only black hosts, just like it's wrong for them to hire only white hosts - which is exactly what MSNBC and CNN do.

But your responses to my "shoe on the other foot" hypothesis are very telling.

Interestingly, many of you were lightning quick to scream "RACISM!" at the mere thought that only hosts of one race be hired - at least when that race is black. Yet there seems to be little, if any concern about the networks' exclusive hiring of white hosts and the consistent and blatant exclusion of blacks from the primetime anchor chair. For some reason, racial exclusivity doesn't bother some folks here - as long as that exclusivity benefits whites. If it benefits anyone else, it is racism and can't be tolerated.

Not only is there little objection, comments here and in some other threads reveal an assumption that these all-white lineups aren't evidence of racial bias but are merely the result of white folks being the most qualified for these positions while the absence of blacks in these positions only means they just weren't good enough to make the cut. This despite the fact that, prior to being groomed for and then given an opportunity to host their own shows, none of current primetime hosts had any unique or superior journalism experience that many black journalists and commentators don't have. Keith Olbermann was a sportscaster before he was given Countdown, for example - he was hardly a journalistic or progressive giant before being provided a national platform.

In other words, these hosts become what they became because they were placed in positions that enabled them to do so. On the other hand, blacks are being told that they haven't proven themselves worthy of being in these positions because they have not yet risen to the levels of the people who are already in them - people who were given the opportunity to grow, develop and prove themselves.

Despite all evidence to the contrary, some people here seem to believe that cable news is a meritocracy with a set of objective standards when in reality it is a purely subjective arena in which all manner of progressive voices could do well. Yet only white people have been allowed in. And folks don't bat an eye or utter a peep of objection.

The cable networks' failure and refusal to hire blacks as anchors in primetime is an abject disgrace. And unless blacks are somehow inferior to whites, this is not a naturally-occurring phenomenon. Given the number of black folks out here who are just as articulate, interesting, intelligent and compelling as any of the white people already there or who are being suggested or considered, one has to go out of their way NOT to pick someone of color time after time since a fair selection process would naturally include SOMEONE of color. It may not be intentional, but it is reality - white people are being cherry-picked while blacks are passed over again and again and again and again.
And, sadly, few people here seem to notice or care - and deeply resent it when this very essence of "white entitlement" is pointed out to them - to the degree that they lash out, whine and accuse those of us who point it out of being racist while giving a free pass and even defending those who are engaging in demonstrable racial exclusion.

Bottom line - If it is wrong to pick only blacks to host the cable networks' primetime shows, it is just as wrong to pick only whites. And if you strongly object to the mere suggestion that whites not be hired to host primetime cable shows, you should be just as offended by the continued actual failure to hire any blacks. If you aren't, why aren't you?

I hope you learned something from this exercise. I certainly did ...

 
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. I rec the "thought experiment". The "white default" mentality is stronger than many want to deal
with.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Indeed
Thanks.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent OP. Do you have a links to the other threads of this? Racism abounds.
I'll go looking now, but wasn't on DU yesterday.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Here are two
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Thanks! Did you catch Carole Simpson on CNN's Reliable Sources?
Talking about the paucity of black news journalists on TV (mostly on, on the weekends!), and the fact that there's no outcry anymore.

Going to read the links now. Thanks again.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yes, I saw her
Her points are well taken - and she knows just what she's talking about.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you Dr. Milgram
.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh fer fuck's sake
Will you just stop this nonsense already?
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Why?
Because it makes you uncomfortable?

No, thank you - I will continue to make my point as long as I see fit. You, of course, are free to ignore it if it gets under your skin.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. No, Al's just trying to keep you from embarrassing yourself further.
Keep walking around with your pants around your ankles if you like.

But we've seen what you're offering, and it's making us laugh.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. It's unfortunate that it's making you laugh - but I guess that's easier than actually thinking
How sad for you.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. I don't see anyone laughing but you.
I do see people thinking. And I see some other people holding their hands over their ears, closing their eyes and yelling, "I'm not listening to you! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!"

Clearly, you're in the latter group. That's too bad, since those are the people who are most in need of the knowledge.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. The truth hurts, doesn't it?
But it's not going to go away.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. just keep sticking with "it" nothing but "it" and pushing that "it" in the face of others
until....until...until...your "it" hurts

do you feel it...do you feel it...when nothing but your it matters...no matter how incomprehensively elusive and how unthinkably undefinable YOUR it looks--when everyone with a lick of sense can see that your IT is continually used, continually morphs into a tool to divide people, your divisive it is the ambigous something used to deflect rational criticism because rational discussion can always be deflected by your reliable little fall-back of a crutch IT.

clutch it, weild it, crush your little crutch....because that how IT is being used on this occasion.

you feel that?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Interesting perspective
You're right - much discrimination is the result of or justified, not by individual decisionmakers' bias against minorities, but supposedly by their fear of what OTHER people will think or do in response to it. Unfortunately, this is the very essence of institutional racism: the ability of discrimination and exclusion to be perpetuated ipso facto without anyone having to take a specific action or to own it.

We don't hire the black salesperson, not because WE'RE racist against blacks but because we think our CUSTOMERS won't shop here anymore.

We don't sell our house to the black family, not because WE'RE racist against blacks but because we think our NEIGHBORS won't like it.

We don't invite our black co-worker to our housewarming, not because WE'RE racist against blacks but because we think that our FRIENDS won't be comfortable with them there.

Of course, the result is still the same - the black salesperson doesn't get hired, the black family doesn't get the house, the black co-worker doesn't get to come to the party. And the beat goes on and on and on.

Frankly, in this day and age, I think this argument is pure bs. We have seen over and over again that people are much more willing to accept diversity and change when presented with the opportunity to do so.

Remember "America's just not ready to elect a black president?"

If America's ready for a black president, surely MSNBC's and CNN's viewers can handle a black primetime host.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Thank you for this discussion. I hope it's opened some eyes - and minds.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. If a station took a chance??? Were Allison Stewart ,Bernard Shaw and Soledad O'Brien figments of
our imagination?

This discussion reminds me of the Soledad's confrontation with Jesse Jackson about "not being black enough."

http://www.bvonmoney.com/2010/11/07/jesse-jackson-vs-soledad-obrien-cnns-lack-of-black-anchors/
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. Yep.
White is still considered the "default" in this country.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Exactly
White people are "the people." Everyone else is the "_______ people."

That is evident in many of the discussion right here on DU - for example, in the arguments about support for Obama among progressives. Much of the discussion seems to assume that progressives are all white, totally ignoring the fact that progressives are also black and Asian and Hispanic, etc.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Why doesn't CNN move Don Lemon to primetime?
He'd be great.

Ditto Melissa Harris-Perry. Though I doubt she'd want to leave Princeton.

Dr. Marc Lamont Hill would also be a great addition, but he's more of a commentator.

OTOH, they should fire Roland Martin. He's a homophobic piece of filth.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Good question
And good suggestions.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Melissa Harris-Perry is leaving Princeton and joining Tulane. She tweeted it in the past few days.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. I can't stand Roland Martin, either. MHP is the best choice by far!! n/t
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. Beautifully said, my sister!
Excellent food for thought. Well done.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Thanks! nt
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
23. so when you said SHOULD phase out, you really didn't mean "should"
but it is our fault, it we read your should as a should.

Yeah, we learned that no matter how the logic of your 'should' is twisted...those on the other side of the should, no matter how illogical your 'should' is associated with reality, those others are in the wrong....after all, your racist provocation was merely a thought experiment designed to provoke.

Having provoked a reaction regarding the necessity for racial cleansing, and anyone who has the moxie to objection to a racial cleaning is someone who NOW AUTOMATICALLY BELIEVES that cable news is a meritocracy. That's is YOUR STRAWMAN, don't try to foist that bullshit on those who have the integrity to call you out on your racist premise.

Really, you now have three threads and all three amount to the same thing: questionging the integrity of anyone who disagrees with you because anyone who disagress not matter how they substantiate that disagreement, mere disagreement amount to a racist attitude.

Agree with Empowered or else he will confabulate some other means of calling you a racist.

Pathetic really...funny to some...but absolutely pathetic and unfunny in many ways.

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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Thank you!
You're proving my point. Perfectly.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Which point are you making this time, first KO, then after some thought something else, then
after some thought, you were just kidding--it was merely a thought experiment.

And now you want to employ some ambiguous use of sarcasm, after three threads, to pretend you ever had a point in the first place.

Good luck with that.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Lol - you really need to stop digging - you're getting in deeper
Face it - Empowerer set a trap and you fell right into it, head first. And try as you might to extract yourself by attacking the OP, you're getting more and more ensared.

As amusing as it is to watch, you're not doing yourself any good. In fact, you're now doing little more than just angrily babbling incoherently without making any point at all other than to present yourself as Exhibit A.

Maybe you should give up and leave the rest of us discuss this issue intelligently and maturely.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. "It would be wrong for a network to hire only black hosts" - 3 threads to reach this conclusion?
I didn't need to start three threads to reach that conclusion. But, if I did, then I might feel somewhat defensive...maybe even angry about it...lol. The only person digging is the person and his reactionary followers who keep revising these threads that lead nowhere. Try try again.

The issue, Effie please, that's funny.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. 3 threads - with 15 or 20 posts from you alone
LOL!
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. For someone who claims these threads are pointless, you're spending an awful lot of your time
Edited on Mon Jan-24-11 10:56 AM by Empowerer
participating in them.

If you find them so odious, perhaps you should occupy yourself elsewhere?
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
29. It's not about hiring blacks. It's about hiring QUALIFIED blacks.
What's so wrong with that? The network has no diversity and that's just a fact.
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These Eyes Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
32. Great job...
When I saw two of your posts yesterday I was pretty sure you were trying to expose some of the attitudes progressives won't confess to having. Your experiment worked!
:D
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Yes, it worked. But the results sadden me
Edited on Mon Jan-24-11 08:33 AM by Empowerer
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These Eyes Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. It saddens me too, because it doesn't surprise me.
Some of the responses I've seen in other threads over the last couple of weeks looked as if they came straight from FreeRepublic.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. You're right. And the certainty of those with these attitudes
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 07:39 AM by Empowerer
that they are more knowledgeable about civil rights and committed to racial inclusion and fairness than those who are actually trying to do something about it would be funny if it weren't so twisted. And as you noted, their arrogant obliviousness and nasty, patronizing tone and often outright bigoted mindsets they unwittingly reveal do seem rather out of place on a progressive Democratic board.

It is absolutely fascinating.
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Kaylee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
38. I can't help but shake my head at the responses you've been getting.
I shouldn't be surprised, but I expected more from the DU community.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. True colors and all that . . .
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namahage Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
40. Why couldn't you have framed it as an affirmative action question,
so that we know the "right" way to answer, rather than relying on our subconscious biases?
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. and miss all this drama?
:-)
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
42. Interesting post.
Too bad I can't rec it anymore :(
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Oh, that's ok -I appreciate the thought.
:pals:
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