Saying Weiner should resign is saying that Clinton should have too

[CreekDog]

if anything, Clinton's actions were more serious (in the workplace, with a staff member, was less than forthright in a deposition, etc.)

but i don't think that. first, i don't know how having an affair disqualifies someone for public office. second, i'm not sure i want someone who is dumb enough to tell the unvarnished truth about what they did (as if they are without shame or regret), as if they were more suited to being a guest on Springer, is someone i'd want in office.

this whole thing about, "well, he lied!".

honestly (heh), do any of you know ANYBODY who does not lie about personal foibles/affairs to strangers? do ANY of you KNOW ANY good person who DOES NOT LIE and try to hide that which is embarrassing about themselves at least upon the first confrontation?

i think Weiner needs to work this out to the satisfaction of his family and others affected by his choices --he has a standard of honestly and candor in terms of his relationship with them.

my concern? well i don't know why it is my concern. if he said he keeps a clean house and puts his recyclables in the correct bin and that turned out to be a lie, it would also make him a liar. does it matter? well it matters if most of people, even good people, were so honest (and we could actually judge that honesty accurately) that they could live up to such a standard.

but they aren't. these are just people, flawed, doing a job.

i don't know much about Weiner, and on a personal level, i don't know much about him --just as i don't know about most elected officials. do i think someone can be unfaithful and perhaps a shaky choice in marriage, and still do a good job, and an honest one representing the public?

yes i do. FDR, JFK, MLK and others have had affairs, they've concealed them, if asked about them, do i think they would've fessed up, Springer-like, confessing every detail? maybe, but i don't know and i actually doubt it. despite that, were they good at their jobs? yes.

it's enough work to navigate my own personal relationships, i frankly don't have the time to decide who is suited to be a politician based on theirs.

[villager]

1. well, if Clinton had resigned and Al Gore had run as the incumbent...

Perhaps the U.S. wouldn't be on the cusp of inexorable, irreversible decline and implosion...

That said, I also think that since virtually all pols have some sort of skeletons in their closet(s), it's no coincidence these "blog brouhahas" always happen -- dutifully picked up by corporate media -- as a (flawed?) liberal leader of some sort is ready to take on corporate interests in a tangible way....

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Al Gore probably would've actually lost if Clinton resigned

Clinton's approval ratings went up 10 points when he was impeached due to public backlash against the Republicans and they actually lost seats in the 1998 midterms because of it. Had Clinton resigned, it would've been a huge victory for the Republicans, and Bush probably would have actually won the election in 2000.

What would've been best for Gore is if Clinton had kept his dick in his pants in the first place and then second best would've been for Clinton to come clean about it rather than weaseling out of it by asking about the meaning of the word "is". But Clinton's decision to stay and fight was far better for Gore than if he had resigned.

[ljm2002]

36. What would have been best for Gore...

...would have been (a) to let Clinton help him campaign, rather than distance himself because of the scandal; and (b) pick someone other than the smarmy, holier-than-thou Joe Lieberman as a running mate. His choice of Lieberman, of course, was part of distancing himself from Clinton. Lieberman was the first Democrat to chastise Clinton publicly. I don't remember if he asked Clinton to resign but it would be in keeping with his overall MO. And by the way, where are they now? Gore is respected for his work on the environment, but pretty much forgotten as a politician; Clinton is still a rock star in politics here and internationally; and Lieberman? (spit) Lieberman is one of the biggest turncoats who ever sullied the Democratic Party, having campaigned for John McCain and Grifter Palin; and is now getting ready to do a gig in Israel with Glenn Beck fer cryin' out loud.

[NightWatcher]

2. huh huh, you said "staff member"

it's not about sex, but the judgement calls. He lied, thinking no one would find out. He's a moron and unfamiliar with how twitter works and got caught projecting his junk out into the ether to possibly millions.

[RandomThoughts]

3. I understand that point.

But that is not the point they are using, they are using smear merchants. and the weakness of society to like sexual gossip.

And do you want that to rule the world?

Because anybody can be smeared.

[CreekDog]

8. that's the key point for me --if you hold everybody to a standard that many good ones won't attain

then they can be knocked out as soon as they offend the wrong person (but the reality is, as soon as they offend a major interest).

and that's not how i want to select my politicians.

people can think anything they want about their leaders, but unless i think they are prone to lying on policy and legalities, i'm not sure it's all that helpful.

just about every person is going to have their picadillos. first, i don't want to know what they are if they are legal and basically personal/human weaknesses. second, i don't really think i can do a good job picking representatives of the ideas i care about if i have to judge whether or not i think they'll cyber then lie about it later as a yardstick in that decision.

why can't i just judge whether or not they can advocate effectively on behalf of my issue?

i figure in a decade, this kind of thing will be recognized as not all that unusual. distasteful, yeah, sure --disqualifying? i doubt it.

[gateley]

9. It was a judgment call with Clinton, too. If you're the

fucking President of the United States of America, do you think a young intern wouldn't tell ANYBODY about what was going on? They think they're invincible and have a cone of silence around them or something. Serious lack of judgment and thinking through the potential fallout.

[sad sally]

34. President Clinton shot a wad of cum at the intern that landed on the

smoking gun - the blue dress. This was done during a shutdown of government business - guess that's why he had time on his hands so could take care of fostering his sickness. Then, he came on tv and lied. Talk about a lack of judgment - could never believe him again.

[monmouth]

4. If he were to immediately, and I mean tomorrow, make the announcement

that he will be seeking medical/rehabilitation help/counseling, I think that may stop this madness. He needs to get serious about this. It's an addiction, hell, I'm addicted to DU, I spend far too much time here at the expense of other things I should be doing. People are funny animals, you screw up, you screw up badly, but if you honestly make the attempt to mend your ways, get the help you need, I'm pretty sure his days will get better...IMO..

[vaberella]

6. Rehabilitation for what? This is not like a normal sex addict.

He's just into taking pictures of himself and sending them out to girls----oh and a lot of sex phone calls apparently.

[vaberella]

5. Depends, there's things about porn stars and stuff Ed is saying...

That kind of irked me a bit, if it came out to be true. I think I would have less of a problem with all this if he had just come out from the get go. He shouldn't resign until the porn stars thing was mentioned.

[pnwmom]

7. Nope. This is about practicality. Clinton was indispensable.

Weiner only thought he was.

[Tarheel_Dem]

10. +1

:thumbsup:

[pscot]

11. He was indispensable alright

He hadn't yet gotten around to deregulating commodities markets and signing Gramm Leach so Goldman Sachs could work their magic on the economy.

[pnwmom]

12. If he hadn't gotten reelected, you would have preferred the Rethug? n/t

[pscot]

13. No

I thought he should have stepped aside for Al Gore.

[Eagle Mall]

21. and yet, Weiner will be reelected.

[Hippo_Tron]

23. His indiscretions also won't get nearly as much attention as Clinton's did

[TheKentuckian]

35. Sounds morally rudderless and like a way to justify a witch hunt.

There is something that has a stank over this whole business.

I reject these kind of politics.

[Scottybeamer70]

14. Thank you, CreekDog........

rec. (although it got slammed by all the unrecs)

[craigmatic]

15. Honestly Clinton and Bush did worse in office. nt

[Politicalboi]

16. I think if we all saw Clinton's penis on the internet

He would have had to resign. It just a penis I know, but it makes it more personal.

[and-justice-for-all]

17. I do not give a shit who he shows his junk too...

and it is some hot junk..

Politicans are people, just like the rest of us with the same desires and wants as the rest of us.

[yellowcanine]

18. Well no. Saying "Weiner should resign" is saying "Weiner should resign."

Different time, different circumstances. Too much effort is made trying to compare scandals. I don't even like the use of - gate after a scandal. There was one Watergate scandal, so named because a major event in that scandal took place in the Watergate building. Using -gate after other scandals equates them, imo. Each scandal should stand on its own merits.

In Weiner's case, I don't know whether he should resign. I would say it is pretty much up to him.

[lynne]

19. The day a president tweets his peter to the public -

- is the day you'll have an accurate comparison between the two events. Neither situation was good however Clinton did keep his peter in the oval office and out of public view. He paid a price for his perjury via his impeachment.

[Eagle Mall]

20. yep. Clinton was under oath when he lied. Much more serious...

Weiner will remain.

[AtomicKitten]

22. I'm saying both should have kept their pants on.

[CreekDog]

25. Really?

going out on a limb on that one aren't ya? :rofl:

:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

26. I don't have a lot of patience with dumb men. And this stuff is dumb.

In otherwise bright and savvy men, this stuff is absurdly lame. I'm still struggling with understanding why broadcasting one's wang seemed okay. Smoking Gun revealed Darryl Issa has been following Weiner on Twitter. Just like BClinton knew he was being scrutinized. Dumb. Epically dumb.

[CreekDog]

28. you make it sound like you think he uses the same organ to share the photos

as he does to decide single payer is the solution to health care.

how well do you know men? :hi:

[AtomicKitten]

31. I don't think either man should have resigned.

Just to keep it in their pants. Is that too much to ask?

[RBInMaine]

27. Add Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and Jesse Jackson to the list of adulterers who still did their

jobs well.

[Drunken Irishman]

29. Disagree...

I'm not saying Weiner should resign, but the situations and ultimate outcome are very much different.

For starters, the presidency holds a great deal more weight than a congressional seat. We've seen the resignation of a great deal of congresspeople over the years for less (like Chris Lee) and it hardly made a political dent. They generally don't because, outside that district, it's not entirely major news.

A president resigning, though, is a pretty big f'n deal. We're not dealing with one of 438 - we're dealing with just one. The presidency, and its powers, stretch far greater than that of a congressional district. Had Clinton resigned, the ultimate ramifications of such a decision would, in my opinion, trump the scandal that would have led to the resignation.

Now I'm not advocating Weiner resign. But can he be an effective leader? If he can - then he should weather the storm. If he can't, if he's tarnished from now on, he then becomes a liability in the congress and resignation might be the only answer.

Had Clinton resigned, I'm guessing the liability and distraction goes well beyond what we actually saw - as when Nixon resigned, it was a moment that, unfortunately, would stay with this country for many, many years.

Because Clinton stayed in office, the distraction was short and he proved to be an effective leader the remainder of his presidency.

The question here is whether that happens with Weiner.

[baldguy]

30. Weiner is guilty of the same crime as Clinton.

Being a Democrat.

[cottonseed]

32. Would you mind if i PM'd you a picture of my balls?

Because that's basically what Weiner was doing.

[Philippine expat]

33. I agree

Clinton should have resigned and now Weiner should also