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Will Clarence and Virginia Thomas succeed in killing Obama’s health-care plan? - Jeffrey Toobin

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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 08:53 AM
Original message
Will Clarence and Virginia Thomas succeed in killing Obama’s health-care plan? - Jeffrey Toobin
It has been, in certain respects, a difficult year for Clarence Thomas. In January, he was compelled to amend several years of the financial-disclosure forms that Supreme Court Justices must file each year. The document requires the Justices to disclose the source of all income earned by their spouses, and Thomas had failed to note that his wife, Virginia, who is known as Ginni, worked as a representative for a Michigan college and at the Heritage Foundation. The following month, seventy-four members of Congress called on Thomas to recuse himself from any legal challenges to President Obama’s health-care reform, because his wife has been an outspoken opponent of the law. At around the same time, Court observers noted the fifth anniversary of the last time that Thomas had asked a question during an oral argument. The confluence of these events produced the kind of public criticism, and even mockery, that Thomas had largely managed to avoid since his tumultuous arrival on the Court, twenty years ago this fall.

These tempests obscure a larger truth about Thomas: that this year has also been, for him, a moment of triumph. In several of the most important areas of constitutional law, Thomas has emerged as an intellectual leader of the Supreme Court. Since the arrival of Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., in 2005, and Justice Samuel A. Alito, Jr., in 2006, the Court has moved to the right when it comes to the free-speech rights of corporations, the rights of gun owners, and, potentially, the powers of the federal government; in each of these areas, the majority has followed where Thomas has been leading for a decade or more. Rarely has a Supreme Court Justice enjoyed such broad or significant vindication.

The conventional view of Thomas takes his lack of participation at oral argument as a kind of metaphor. The silent Justice is said to be an intellectual nonentity, a cipher for his similarly conservative colleague, Antonin Scalia. But those who follow the Court closely find this stereotype wrong in every particular. Thomas has long been a favorite of conservatives, but they admire the Justice for how he gives voice to their cause, not just because he votes their way. “Of the nine Justices presently on the Court, he is the one whose opinions I enjoy reading the most,” Steve Calabresi, a professor at the Northwestern University School of Law and a co-founder of the Federalist Society, said. “They are very scholarly, with lots of historical sources, and his views are the most principled, even among the conservatives. He has staked out some bold positions, and then the Court has set out and moved in his direction.”

Thomas’s intellect and his influence have also been recognized by those who generally disagree with his views. According to Akhil Reed Amar, a professor at Yale Law School, Thomas’s career resembles that of Hugo Black, the former Alabama senator who served from 1937 to 1971 and is today universally regarded as a major figure in the Court’s history. “Both were Southerners who came to the Court young and with very little judicial experience,” Amar said. (Thomas is from Georgia.) “Early in their careers, they were often in dissent, sometimes by themselves, but they were content to go their own way. But once Earl Warren became Chief Justice the Court started to come to Black. It’s the same with Thomas and the Roberts Court. Thomas’s views are now being followed by a majority of the Court in case after case.”

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/29/110829fa_fact_toobin

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thomas may well cast the deciding vote against HCR. Ironic that Obama & the Dem leaders decided
Edited on Mon Aug-22-11 09:14 AM by leveymg
not to try to force him off the bench earlier his year, and instead sacrificed Rep. Weiner for drawing attention to the fact that Clarence Thomas has committed criminal violations for which he can be indicted. Please see, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/574 and http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/576

As Toobin's article, "Will Clarence & Ginni Thomas succeed at Killing Obama's Health Care Plan?" concludes:

Four more circuit courts of appeals are slated to weigh in on the constitutionality of the health-care law. In due course, the Justices will have their turn. I asked (VA Attorney General Ken) Cuccinelli (who brought the lawsuit against HCR to the US Supreme Court) what role Thomas might play in the resolution of the health-care case. “I don’t like to make predictions,” he told me. “But I know I’ve got his vote.” Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/29/110829fa_fact_toobin#ixzz1VlapQXun

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Weiner was forced out because of his investigation????
You know better than that - no one forced Weiner to create the idiotic scandal he did.

I also doubt that we had anything like the numbers of votes in the REPUBLICAN controlled House to impeach Thomas. I even doubt we had the votes in the Senate to remove him - as I think you need 67.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The Right went after Weiner after he put the spotlight on Thomas, who can be indicted whether he's
impeached or not. A federal judge does not need to be impeached to be indicted, tried, and jailed. That would effectively remove him from the bench regardless of what Congress decides to do with him.

Please read the material linked in my post, above, which addresses those very issues.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. No one forced Weiner to send inappropriate photos on twitter and then lie about it
That embarrassment is why he is out - not his investigation.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Weiner is not the issue here. Clarence Thomas, and why the Obama DOJ didn't indict him, is.
Weiner is a self-indulgent putz. But, he's a politician, and they all are in their own ways.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Nothing I wrote suggested that Thomas should not have been investigated
I questioned the link between Weiner being kicked out and his investigation.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Weiner's "outing" of Thomas is the primary reason they went after him.
I think that's clear from the timing and circumstances.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I have no doubt that ANY Democrat member of Congress who
was engaging in his type of twittering would have been exposed and, had he handled it like Weiner, he would have similarly been out. Further, any Republican doing so would also have been exposed and would have been pushed out. The ONLY exception for either party would be if the likelihood was that they would lose or most likely lose the seat. (This is what I think saved Vitter - the then Democratic governor would have appointed a Democrat. )

It is very easy to see conspiracies where they don't exist. The ONLY thing that his outspokenness and his investigation likely did was it gave him more prominence so he was watched by the right more closely than other wise. Though I would never have thought of it, to more twitter savvy people it was odd that a politician would follow several young women still in college.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. "his investigation likely ...gave him more prominence so he was watched by the right more closely"
Then, I guess we basically agree about my main point. I don't want to get into a debate about Weiner's weiner, Twitter and e-exhibitionism. Frankly, that aspect bores me.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Ok, by me
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
25. a very informative bit on information in those links
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. You need a civics teaching. Obama can't force him out.
Only the House can. And the House made up of Repubs and Teabaggers since January---While the Thomas scandal started getting some light wasn't until February/March. No Repub or Teabagger will turn on Thomas in the House. So don't feed me this bullshit about Obama should have forced them out---but instead focused of Weiner. They are not equal in any way.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thomas can be indicted, tried, and convicted in criminal court if Holder convenes a Grand Jury.
Edited on Tue Aug-23-11 07:55 AM by leveymg
Please read the links in my original post above, and then come back to discuss it. I am not the one who is undereducated and misinformed here.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. "Clarence Thomas" and "intellect" should not be juxtaposed
in the same sentence. :eyes:

But he obviously has sense enough to choose good conservative law clerks to write coherent conservative opinions for him.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Toobin - - Are You Kidding Me?

I normally love his writing. But comparing Thomas to HUGO BLACK???? No. That's nice that his clerks write well enough to impress Federalist Society hacks, but if you don't ask a question from the bench for five years, you're probably not some stealth intellectual.

How utterly ridiculous.
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah, I would say ...
Look, the man is pretty obviously an empty suit ...

But, part of the analysis rings true. I have a lot of conservative friends who think he is the bees knee. And, obviously, the five lugnuts sort of follow his lead.

Frightening that it is just taken at face value, not outrage that a writer quotes an AG as knowing he has a SC justices vote on something. And, if one of the "liberal" four had even 1/10th of the BS swirling around them that Thomas does, they likely would have been impeached by now ...

But, it is all good when you play for their team.
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66 dmhlt Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Toobin was NOT comparing Thomas to Hugo Black ...
He was only quoting Akhil Reed Amar, a professor at Yale Law School.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. You're Right - - Thanks

However, I assume that Toobin would not have included the observation if it didn't fit his hypothesis. So I deem him to have adopted the comparison by reference.

The piece was bizarre and beneath someone of Toobin's intellectual heft.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. That comparison PLUS carrying the water that Thomas is The Court's Intellectual
Toobin drank the Koolaid long ago, but apparently the taste truly agrees with him.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. The mere thought
of ACA being subjected to the Roberts court -- God help us.

-
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Do read the article.
The Washington Post has covered the conflict of interest angle before but the Toobin article brings out the sort of bizarro world nature of the Thomases' approach -- seeing themselves as victims, as wronged, yet ensconced in positions of power and influence, with financial backers ready to step in.

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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. victims ensconced in positions of power and influence
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-11 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Only because we don't want to anger anybody.
We can't just go charging people with crimes and stuff. They might say something bad about us and not love us anymore.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-24-11 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. confronting conflicts of interest in a straightforward way shouldn't be all that provocative
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-24-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. There is a difference between "shouldn't" and fear that it might.
This administration walks a wary thread when it comes to courting right wing ire.
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