OK, I give up, I think the bill sucks but it is a starting point. Sign it and work on improving it.

[KansasVoter]

I'll join the sign it and improve it crowd.

I think the insurance companies are going to kick ass in profits and screw us over but there is no fight left in anyone to get another better bill through the house or the senate.

I think Obama did the best he could with what he was working with.

Sign it, improve it down the road.

[Buzz Clik]

1. k&r

[HuckleB]

2. I don't think we should give up on improving it before it's signed, however.

The Senate version is only one of two versions, and it should be improved in negotiation with the House. Let's call and write and e-mail until this thing is actually signed.

[KansasVoter]

4. Great Point! I agree!! n/t

[Egnever]

32. I agree now is not the time to give up

I could do without all the stupid hyperbole like the obama = bush bulshit, but now is the time to fight this is the time that matters most after conference then we can sit back and marvel at what was actualy passed. Theres still hope of removing or improving parts of this bill.

Having said that if this bill passed as it stands now coming out pof the senate, I think it will be a pretty decent bill overall.

[tridim]

3. What do you think about this?

This HCR Bill: 45,000,000 Get Single-Payer Vermont Health Care
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/22/818060/-This-HCR-Bill:-45,000,000-Get-Single-Payer-Vermont-Health-Care

45,000,000 get single-payer care =vs.= 3,000,000 P.O. tickets ??? -- Cummon folks.

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

Ted Kennedy's existing CHC program expands along lines developed by Bernie Sanders and Ben Cardin.

The single best thing to happen for America's working poor since food stamps:

-- 14,000 nationwide Community Health Clinics

-- Expand CHC capabilities to match VHA technology

-- 45,000,000 people served

-- $$$$$ to attract 20,000 primary care physicians, nurses, etc.

-- Drugs at VHA prices

-- Dental care

-- Patient billing scaled to income

-- No profit motive. 1/5th the cost of Emergency Room treatment.

Alan Frumin, the Senate Parliamentarian, showed last April that non-budgetary insurance sections would not qualify for reconciliation. Filibusters would doom any Senate P.O.

Care is separated completely from any billing.

Harry Reid concealed Sanders-Cardin till the last hour, then popped it into the Senate HCR Bill.

[cliffordu]

28. This is why everyone fell in line.

It ain't perfect, but it'll be a nice start.

Lotsa folks will hate it just the same...

[phleshdef]

5. "Sign it and improve it" is exactly how our best social programs got their start.

[KansasVoter]

6. Yes, I have read a lot about that and it changed my mind also! n/t

[polly7]

13. We've been constantly improving ours for 4 decades.

We still have a long way to go ..... the inclusion of dental, prescription drugs, continuing to lower wait times for non-elective surgery, etc. etc. etc. I was going to point this out earlier but didn't want to butt in. Just wanting people here to know that Tommy Douglas's plan only started here in Saskatchewan, my father remembers being called a commie-sympathizer, all the same names I've seen at the mention of HCR on different sites in the last while. The doctors in Saskatchewan went on a huge strike and the Bill almost didn't pass. Granted, it's different than what your Bill includes, but hang in there ..... good things come with time. I am very sorry though for everyone who didn't get what they thought they were.

[GoCubsGo]

30. Still needing improvement after 4 decades sounds discouraging

That is, until one realizes that it took us 7 decades just to get what little is in this bill. Now THAT is "discouraging", but it it's a first step-AT LAST!

[Hello_Kitty]

42. And some of our worst economic ones. Like NAFTA.

Which not only hasn't been improved, but we've entered into equally heinous trade agreements since then.

[Garam_Masala]

50. with 1 glaring exception.....every major social progem before had

bi-partisan votes for it, including Social Security, Medicare,
Civil Rights, and Prescription drugs benefit.

So it was difficult to demagogue it in elections.
This one could lose us bunch of seats in 2010.

[tavalon]

7. Yeah, like the Medicare Prescription Bill

That's been so improved after being inflicted on the elderly and infirm.

Oh, wait, no it hasn't.

[stevietheman]

20. It hasn't been that long since its passage though. n/t

n/t

[cliffordu]

43. That was one of those Bushy screwings, wasn't it??

[tavalon]

47. Yes, it was

[mzmolly]

8. This might help all feel a bit better?

"Netherlands Tops European Health Consumer Poll for Second Successive Year"

Granted we're not in the same place as the Netherlands, but we did select a very similar model.

http://www.ihsglobalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail17699.htm

Welcome to the "sign and improve" group. :hi:

[KansasVoter]

9. Thanks.......

I was maybe too mad at the political process and then realized that small steps would be better than none.

[gratefultobelib]

10. Agree and thanks for the post!

[freddie mertz]

11. Well, since we the people have already lost in the Senate

I guess saying this does no harm.

I'd be amazed if it gets much better in reconciliation, but you never know.

[NJmaverick]

12. With the not for profit competition the private insurers will only be able to get so much profit

glad to see you are on board though.

[phleshdef]

15. With the new law that requires them to spend 85% of their intake on care, they can only get so much.

With 15% allotted for operating costs, I really don't see how they can make nearly as much as they have been making. And at the end of the day if they actually cover people and do what they are suppose to, they deserve profit.

[LiberalAndProud]

14. Yes. Although the bill is flawed, it is a good beginning.

It's a better starting point than we've had in my lifetime.

[felinetta]

16. Glad to hear you have seen the light!

[KansasVoter]

17. thanks

[blueworld]

18. Well, you could be right, but please consider...

I grew up in a state where it was legal for a man to beat his wife with a stick no wider than his thumb. It took nearly 70 years for them to open their first Domestic Violence Shelter.

Not like we have a choice, but I guess lemonade is better than wet lemon seeds.

[stevietheman]

19. I agree. The bill is bad, but it's brutally worse to not pass it.

So, pass it and let's gradually fix it through subsequent legislation.

[Romulox]

21. We'll probably get to it after those NAFTA "side agreements" and the banskter bonus tax bill!

:rofl:

[Beetwasher]

22. The Bill Is Much Better Than Many Here Are Giving Credit For

n/t

[johnaries]

23. Agree. Despite it's shortcomings it has a lot of valuable reforms

that we can't allow to NOT be implemented. I'm hoping it can be improved in the joint committee, but I'm not very optimistic. However, I am optimistic that as time passes it can be greatly improved after-the-fact.

[eridani]

52. None of the good points justify the fascism of forcing us to be corporate customers

What's wrong with just pulling the good stuff and passing it separately?

[mkultra]

24. welcome aboard the logic train

[KansasVoter]

37. Thanks for the slam asswipe!

[mkultra]

40. your welcome.

[Exultant Democracy]

25. There will be a high price to pay for this. The new voters from Obama's coalition will stay home

along with a number of other liberals. The republicans have their voters whipped up into a frenzy and foaming at the mouth, while liberals are pulling the obama magnets off their hybrid cars.

[cliffordu]

29. I don't think you have enough data to make that kind of a

sweeping statement.

Let's wait three years and then see.

[NatBurner]

31. lol when are republican voters *not* foaming at the mouth?

especially now that hopey the muslin kenyan is in charge

[NatBurner]

26. basically. mr pre-existing condition over here will take what he can get

and worry about the rest after he gets a new job lol

[HughMoran]

27. K&R

wow.

[Undercurrent]

33. K&R

You've impressed this DUer with your personal reflection and honesty. :thumbsup:

There remain cringe worthy elements to this bill, and some disgustingly slimy Senators on our side of the isle, but we've finally gotten the health care door open. Quite honestly, I didn't think I would live long enough to see it.

[jefferson_dem]

34. Great!

nice to have you on board.

[KansasVoter]

38. Thanks!

[bigwillq]

35. What a way to cave!

:P :rofl:

[KansasVoter]

39. Well, let me hear your great idea Einstein!

[bigwillq]

41. It was a joke.

relax.

[KansasVoter]

44. How would I know that??

[bigwillq]

46. By this:

:P :rofl:

[BeyondGeography]

36. Welcome to the dark side

K&R

[Garam_Masala]

45. IOW shut up and drink the kool-aid?

Why rush into a bill without public support?
Why is that a smart move?
Why you want to lose seats in 2010?

Why Why Why???

[Zavulon]

48. +1.

A bad bill is worse than no bill at all. If this steaming pile of shit is the best we can expect, I don't trust the government to improve it at all.

[vaberella]

49. I've been saying that for ages...to earn being called an asshole and /or cheerleader on this board.

nt

[eridani]

51. It's nothing but a starting point to complete fascism

If Congress refuses to regulate inaurance companies now, how stupid to you have to be to think that they'll do it after we give them a trillion dollars?