Cheering a Monster's Death Is Not the Same as Patriotism

[Donnachaidh]

http://www.alternet.org/world/150808/cheering_a_monster%27s_death_is_not_the_same_as_patriotism/

Patriotism is truest when it is quiet, the acceptance of civic duty -- never with childish glee.

There was something unseemly about that gathering of college-age Americans outside the White House just before midnight on Sunday, cheering at the news of Osama bin Laden’s death. Some of the kids had draped flags over their shoulders; they chanted “USA, USA, USA.” I doubt there was a true patriot in the bunch.

Patriotism is not the same thing as cheering in the streets when your side wins the Super Bowl. Patriotism is truest and best when it is quiet, the acceptance of civic duty, as a kind of fate—never with childish glee, but with mature resolution. I think of Pat Tillman, sitting alone in a football stadium after September 11th, deciding that he needed to abandon the boyish game that he loved and instead enlist as a soldier.

In the great novels, as in the great American Westerns, the moment when the tyrant or town bully is killed by the townspeople is a solemn moment. Victory over evil requires also a moral compromise. In order to destroy evil, the townspeople must bloody their own hands.

More at the link --

[pinto]

1. I think those directly involved, the townspeople in this analogy, took it very solemnly all around,

from those on scene to those who made the call. Public reaction seemed to run the gamut - from the crowds that evening to the gathering at the WTC site later in the week.

Is what it is, I guess. :hi:

[Old and In the Way]

2. I'd cut those people some slack.

For one thing, this occurred on a weekend night, so they were probably in a 'socialized' mood when the word came down. Secondly, I was struck by the young age of the crowd. My son who is 21 was fist pumping and pretty hepped up by the news....not really in his character to do that. I realized that when 9/11 went down he was 11 years old. A pretty impressionable age to witness the horror of the 9/11 event and have the OBL picture of the world's #1 terrorist seared into your mind. My wife reminded me of something I had long forgotten. My daughter had problems going to bed shortly after 9/11 (she's 22 now) - she was afraid that terrorists would blow up our house when she went to sleep. I'm betting for a lot of kids this age, there was a a real psychological impact to 9/11 that may have been overlooked by most adults who handled the aftermath of 9/11 differently than the children who were 8-13 YO at the time.

[pinto]

3. Good points.

:hi:

[calimary]

9. Those are good points. I remember how some of my fellow parents reacted that day.

We'd dropped our kids off only about an hour before, and then the school called saying they were canceling everything for the day and come pick up your kid. My neighbor across the street, with whom we carpooled to the same elementary school every day, was so freaked out that she couldn't drive. She kept saying "I've taken that flight! OMG! I've been ON that flight" (the one from Boston to L.A. - which she took for business quite a bit). So I drove her to go pick her kid up while I was picking my kids up. I know her kid saw that. I know EVERY kid at that school was clearly aware of their parents' reactions. And you've GOTTA know it made an impression. What could shake a kid up more than to see his or her parents freaking out? Wouldn't surprise me at all if a LOT of kids had sleepless nights and became terrified of "terrorists under the bed." I mean - ADULTS by the MILLIONS went that way, directly!

[Old and In the Way]

24. I was on Flt. 175 3 weeks before 9/11

I had the same reaction.

[TTUBatfan2008]

19. Thanks...

I was 15 when it happened. There is an article on CNN about the 9/11 generation. There are two subsets: the high school/college kids and the junior high/elementary and younger. It had a psychological impact on all of us in different ways.

[Dappleganger]

20. Yes, our younger children and I were worried to death about their dad who was flying

that very morning out to Amsterdam for work. We didn't get any message from him until late that evening and had no idea if he was ok. His mom kept calling me over and over just to see if he'd called yet. I tried to remain calm but the kids were worried sick about their dad (even our youngest one caught the drift of what was happening). Our kids weren't jumping up and down but they did hoot a few times, although they quickly calmed down.

In their minds he was the greatest enemy in the world who had finally been stopped.

[pintobean]

4. Who knew there were rules?

[Union Scribe]

13. And they've apparently been established by cowboy novels. nt

[phleshdef]

5. The criticism of the "celebration level" is seriously flawed because of one simple fact.

Had we captured Bin Laden alive, the celebrating would be exactly the same. Most are not celebrating that Bin Laden is dead, they are celebrating that he was dealt with. I would personally have preferred he had been taken alive and put on trial for crimes against humanity. But I still feel just as good about it all the same. Its not the death that I'm happy over, its the fact that something meaningful was done at all.

[Donnachaidh]

16. thanks for not *getting it*.

:eyes:

Honestly, I'm stunned by the reactions to articles that may possibly point out dissenting views. We've been told we're supposed to be *better* than that -- but out pop thousands of reasons why we are NOT.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Gravel Democrat]

26. The division that you speak of is apparent on every board I've read

(R), (D), (I), (L), for the past 15 years.

It is the Real Divide. The Root of all minor divides. Probably since Humans lived in caves.

The divide between Authoritarian/Statist kind of people that simply cannot mind their own business and think that they must always be "doing something"-inventing a "drug war", invading here and there, social engineering via the tax code, and those that just want to be left alone to live life however they see fit, pay their taxes and raise their families.

The last generation of Democrats at least gave lip service to the common man, now, especially since both parties have abandoned whatever they once stood for, it's spin from both sides, all to keep the Big Money flowing. Most promises made in campaigns on both sides are abandoned just as soon as the oath is taken.

One day the blinders will finally come off and there will be a huge battle with the sides fully defined, and the people that just want to live and be left alone, (the founders called it freedom) will win. I'd bet my life on it.

>>"...I believe that the vast majority of people celebrating were Right of Center...this would include conservative Democrats..."<<

yup

[phleshdef]

22. Thanks for avoiding giving any relevant rebuttle to anything I said.

[MineralMan]

6. Did someone say it was?

I hadn't heard that. Sounds like an argument looking for a reason to me.

Trying to define patriotism probably isn't the best idea. Just sayin...

[immoderate]

7. One is "the last refuge of a scoundrel," the other is a reason to PARTY!

Bin Laden has been as an abscess to the human body. Now he is gone. Feel the relief!


--imm

[Swede]

8. I have no problem with these young folks actions.

Someone who murdered thousands of Americans met justice.

[Octafish]

10. 'Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.'

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146

[Electric Monk]

12. You get it. k&r nt

[Donnachaidh]

17. thank you Octafish.

That is the whole point...

[Hosnon]

11. I'm unapologetically thrilled that asshole is dead

There will probably not be another human being I'll ever be able to say that about.

This author lost me when s/he doubted there was a "true" patriot in that crowd. How fucking presumptuous.

[JTFrog]

14. "But he died with soft, boyish hands."

Fuck that. Fuck bin Laden. Fuck off.

[LaydeeBug]

15. Of course...it's not as sinister as applauding murder either. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions, and the passion of fools." Schopenhauer

[kath]

25. +1000.

Nationalism is a scary, evil force.

[Ikonoklast]

23. Author of the article presumes to know how the vast majority

of Americans reacted, extrapolated from a vanishingly small number he saw on TV who reacted a certain way.


Got it.

[akbacchus_BC]

27. Rest assured, only your country could violate other country's sovereignty!