Pakistan may have known. My Q is: Did Bush know?

[chillspike]

Did the Bush administration know Bin Laden was in Pakistan? Were they complicit with Pakistan in protecting Bin Laden? And how can we find out?

First there's the numerous stories stating that Bush had business ties to the Bin Laden family:

http://www.denverpost.com/rodriguez/ci_4319898

And there is the incomprehensible statement from Bush at a press conference that he really was not concerned where Bin Laden was here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o

Is Bush trying to throw the public's trail off of seeking Bin Laden at the above press conference?

Did Bush have some kind of deal with Pakistan to lay off Bin Laden?

And was Bin Laden made to feel comfortable enough from this deal that, he forgot he had no deal with the new administration and thought he'd still be safe hiding in plain site in Pakistan?

What else can anyone contribute that might push this hypothesis one way or the other?

[Ohio Joe]

1. I can't buy it

If bush could have gotten bin laden any time, he most certainly would have in the run off to the election to guarantee a repug victory.

[chillspike]

2. I would tend to agree

But I can't help thinking something's afoot.

[Ohio Joe]

3. Why?

Because you have not seen the body?

[chillspike]

9. No because once Bush was out of office

we were able to get bin laden in a mere 2 years.

and, yes, photo or no photo, i know he's dead.

[Ohio Joe]

10. What is it you think is afoot?

I'm not following whatever conspiracy you are pushing, just lay it out.

[chillspike]

15. I just think we should all get a lot nosier

about the bush administration's relationship with pakistan given bush's business ties with the bin laden's, given the incomprehensible invasion of iraq, given bush's statement he wasn't concerned about finding bin laden, and given that bush shut down the task force charged with finding bin laden.

I think we should get REAL nosy.

[Ohio Joe]

20. Some of those are good questions

One is crap looking to prove inside job for 9/11. One has nothing at all to do with OBL being captured. It is typical CT weaving of insinuations together. Regardless, all of them have been known questions for a long time and none of them say anything about bush knowing where OBL was and leaving him there. It makes zero sense, the fact is, if bush could have dragged out OBL's corpse three months before last election, he would have not only done so but dragged it up and down main street non-stop right up until election day. That he did not shows he could not.

[Celebration]

65. not really

He wasn't that invested in a McCain win. He accomplished the Iraq War disaster already. He could have been just as happy letting Bin Laden go, because it kept the bogeyman out there. And what is not to believe about his statement saying he wasn't concerned about him? I believe him. He wasn't concerned about him. It didnn't take that long for Obama's team to figure all this out. The fact that Bush didn't shows he didn't put much effort into it. And, he even said he wasn't concerned. This isn't a conspiracy theory. These are facts. Now, we want to know WHY it came down like this................

[reggie the dog]

42. W himself said he was not concerned with bin laden

and didnt spend much time thinking about him

the bin laden and bush families were business parterners for a time

the neo conservatives needed an "enemy" like the soviet union during the cold war to rally people to their support and perhaps helped create their own enemy?

[Ohio Joe]

43. and?

How does that explain why bush did not kill or capture OBL just before the last election? He was of no use to keep the WOT going, why not ensure repug victory with him? How does it explain Pakistan keeping him once bush was out of office? If there was some kind of deal, it would no longer be in effect without a repug president and could only fuck them.

[reggie the dog]

47. perhaps a family think

like bin ladens dad, who had lots of investements with bush sr for some years, perhaps asked pappy to talk to w and ask him to go easy on bin laden?

[Ohio Joe]

48. See, this is what so often goes wrong with conspiracies

When something is shown to not make sense, the CT'er just goes on to something that makes even less sense and ignores what was wrong to begin with. It just goes deeper and deeper, becoming more and more convoluted and never a shred of evidence for any of it. Holy shit! A texas oil family did business with a major Saudi oil family... They must be best buds! And Pakistan just went along because... ummm... A guy from Pakistan must have been involved in oil somewhere, so that explains it.

Sheesh.

[Wind Dancer]

53. Since when did asking

questions become a negative? You're labeling posters as CTer's for wanting to have a discussion? This IS a discussion board, you know!

[crickets]

55. Thank you. -nt

[Ohio Joe]

56. This is not asking questions

It is making wild claims that have no basis in reality.

[chillspike]

62. Well, it actually is

hence all the question marks. :)

[sabrina 1]

11. Getting OBL early on was definitely NOT what the Bush gang

wanted to do. The ongoing fearmongering forced continued support for the wars.

All he needed was the 'terror alerts' and the 'color charts' etc. and a new OBL Video to remind the public that the WOT was necessary and anyone who wanted to withdraw troops from either country, only had to look at those daring Videos from OBL.

If OBL was gone in early 2002, he would have had a much harder time getting the Iraq War going.

Keeping him around to make tapes when needed was far more effective.

I remember people joking about how OBL always seemed to oblige Bush/Cheney with one of his videos just when they needed a little terror to encourage support for Republicans and more war funding.

[Ohio Joe]

13. I was talking about the last election

I have no doubt he was uninterested in catching OBL. However, he has been a non-player for so long that it would have benefited them much more to take him just before the last election if he could have. That they did not, tells me they could not.

[chillspike]

18. or would not.

plus bush wasn't up for reelection.

[Ohio Joe]

21. So bush allowed the election to be lost

When he could have kept the repugs in power? umm... yeah.

[chillspike]

54. I don't think

anything could have saved the McCain/Palin ticket. And besides, OBL was worth more to the repugs alive, as has been explained by others in this thread.

[Ohio Joe]

57. and how was he worth anything to them...

When they are no longer on power? How did it benefit Pakistan to keep him for the repugs when they were no longer in power?

[chillspike]

64. They WANTED to stay in power

They were using Bin Laden to stay in power. It didn't work In 2008 because of the horrendous campaign they ran, the swandiving economy, etc.
It wasn't enough to save them but they were hoping it would.

I'm kind of confused by your question because I never said OBL was worth anything to them while out of power. But as for benefiting them, look who got the credit when OBL was found. The party in the Oval Office.

[shimmergal]

59. Not sure Bush and his neocon buddies were

all that set on a Republican victory in 2008. He gave the impression he was just coasting those last few months. He'd had his war, his friends had made their billions from it, and the worst fallout of the economic crash was yet to come--why not let a Democrat struggle with it (and hence get blamed for all the unemployment & other misery). McCain was far from being a favorite of the Bushies anyway.

[sabrina 1]

24. How would it have benefitted the MIC to have

killed him? Bush and Co were hardly interested in ending the lucrative WOT. They set it up so why would they want to cut off all those funds? The private armies, still in Iraq and Afghanistan eg.

I doubt the MIC wants an end to terror. We always need an enemy to keep the flow of money into the Pentagon coming.

[Ohio Joe]

29. Has killing him now ended the WOT?

No, it has not nor would it have then but it would have assured that repugs kept the oval office.

[sabrina 1]

34. Unless a deal had been made with Musharaff ~

Odd how Musharaff was so willing to cooperate with the Bush admin. on the WOT. He was not so willing when Clinton requested his assistance to go get OBL in Afghanistan after he was located there, by sending in Special Forces to do just what has been done now. Musharaff refused to cooperate with that mission so it was aborted, and then 9/11 happened.

But after 9/11 he became a 'partner in the WOT'. Most people suspected that OBL was in Pakistan so that really is not news. And Musharaff has condemned the killing of OBL.

Who knows, we are lied to so much no one can trust anything we are told anymore. Which is why trials in public, not hidden away from public view, are so necessary. But, the American people have willingly given up many of our rights, so we will remain in ignorance of what our government is doing in our name and be reduced to merely speculating.

[Ohio Joe]

36. All meaningless

More CT reaching making things bigger, badder and more complex yet still not answering "of what use is this?". Bush made a deal to keep OBL alive and throw the election to us why? Not to keep the WOT going, he did not need that.. So why? Don't trust the government, fine but at least have a decent CT, not one that has no sense and offers nothing but bad things for the one doing the nefarious deed.

[sabrina 1]

38. And what is your explanation??? Why didn't Bush

et al even try to find him? Bush has made many statements over the years saying OBL was not important anymore and they disbanded the unit assigned to find him in 2006. Why?

You didn't explain why Musharaff who refused to cooperate with the US under Clinton, was so cooperative with the Bush administration. Is that a CT?

The truth is you know nothing, nor does anyone else. Pakistan's internal politics are so complex that we don't have a clue about what actually went on regarding Bin Laden. Or what deals might have been seen as necessary to accomplish the real goal of the Afghanistan invasion, which was to use it as a route to the Caspian Sea. OBL may not have been all that important to those with 'more important things' to think of.

Unless you think Bush et al really care about the American people or anyone else for that matter.

[Ohio Joe]

39. Why?

Because bush did not care to try. He was happy to leave him out there. Musharaff became co-operative because we gave him billions to do so. As for your "deals" they simply make no sense and nothing you say is allowing them to make any. On the repug side, they fall apart the moment bush does not trot out the corpse for the run up to the election. You seem to refuse to give a reasonable explanation why bush would not do this. On the Pakistan side they fall apart the moment bush leave office. Pakistan would have said, "ok boys, hand him over to the Americans", there is zero reason for them to gain hiding him with bush gone and crap loads for them to lose.

"Unless you think Bush et al really care about the American people or anyone else for that matter."

Painting me as a bush supporter of some kind is a bullshit thing to do just because you have a shitty CT that makes zero sense.

[sabrina 1]

44. And you post as much CT as you accuse others of doing.

You have no clue what happened over the years, anymore than anyone else. You have provided not a shred of proof to back up anything you say, just your own theories. And you neglect some facts in doing so. For one thing, OBL and the Taliban were highly regarded by many in Pakistan. That is why Musharaff refused to help Clinton even after the bombings of the Embassies in Africa. If he wanted money, he could have asked for it then.

[Ohio Joe]

45. Perhaps but at least...

I did it without accusing you of being a repug, it also has the benefit of making sense. I notice you refute none of it and also choose not to try and fill in the gaping holes in your CT... Just continue to ignore them.

[Gin]

26. Bin Ladin wasn't important in 08...bush had to set the stage for

payback to all his buddies by robbing the treasury...his last gift on the way out.

[Ohio Joe]

30. So why keep OBL alive?

and give the election to us?

[EFerrari]

33. Because they knew the crash was coming, maybe?

And it would be easier for them if it was a Democrat that had to negotiate the end of what is left of the New Deal when "austerity" became necessary?

It's a good question. I didn't think they were even trying with McBomb, to tell you the truth.

[Ohio Joe]

35. Would that still have not been much easier with a repug in office?

No one is unaware of what the repugs are trying to do, even the tools going along with it. They have not made any of it secret so... Why put up an oppisition? Makes no sense to me, if they could have assured themselves the presidency, they would have.

[EFerrari]

58. You got me.

There are so many angles, you'd have to be a trig whiz to figure it out, imo. :)

[chillspike]

61. Do you forget Republicans were using OBL to stoke fear?

They thought they had a better chance at winning with OBL alive.
Their whole party line was "we will protect you from terror and the dems won't".
Their whole political machine was invested in stoking fear because they thought it would elect them.
They were NOT going to kill OBL.

[malaise]

4. I really don't know but he sure managed to trot out

tapes at very convenient times for the Bushco posse

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. Will it be * who trots out the next (and supposedly last) tape?

If not, then who is REALLY behind "trotting out tapes"?

[chillspike]

6. I wonder what intelligence was gathered at Bin Laden's compound

and if Bush or Cheney's name is anywhere.

[malaise]

27. A lady can hope right

:rofl:

[me b zola]

60. Well, cheney practically moved into cia headquarters

when his term was over. Both cheney and the bush* family have deep ties to the cia. I don't expect that Pres Obama will ever have access to some of that info, let alone us.

[jimlup]

7. I agree with you that Bush and his henchmen may have had more to do ...

with the non-capture and exile of Bin Laden in Pakistan than we are lead to believe by mainstream sources. Idle speculation of course but it is hard not to speculate given the circumstances and history.

[chillspike]

63. Thank you

I felt these questions needed to at least be raised. That's all I'm saying.

[pipi_k]

8. Hah. I would be more inclined to believe...

that Bush's advisers knew lots of stuff and he was totally clueless.

[pintobean]

12. We need to do a controlled demolition of the 3 story mansion.

[Angry Dragon]

17. The Us has no right to do anything with the mansion

It is in a sovereign country. We have to learn that we do not own everything just because we want it.........

[pintobean]

23. It could have been a

joke. Ever heard of MIHOP?

[Angry Dragon]

25. I did not see it as a joke

I would not be surprised that there is much that is still there that would be valuable

[think4yourself]

49. Thank You.

:yourock:

[earthside]

14. Bush Knew Where bin Laden Was All Along

http://www.earthside.com/earthside/2011/05/bush-knew-where-bin-laden-was-all-along.html

My proposed 'conspiracy theory' ... got more circumstantial evidence for it than the birthers had for theirs!

[nxt1]

16. Everyone knew

That bin Laden was likely in Pakistan. Did Bush know the precise location? I don't buy it or he would have captured/had him killed.

[EFerrari]

31. Not only Bin Laden but also Mullah Omar and his people, too.

Ahmed Rashid has been reporting that for years.

[CJCRANE]

50. Bush specifically said that he would not send troops into Pakistan to get Bin Laden

because of its sovereignty and McCain said the same thing. They were very specific.

Candidate Obama was severely criticized by the Repubs and media pundits for saying he would send troops into Pakistan to kill OBL.

[dkf]

19. I'm thinking if he did, it was all a sop to Pakistan.

I honestly feel like we've been paying protection money to Pakistan to keep nukes away from terrorists. If that's the calculation Bush made, we will now see how the Obama calculation goes.

[Fire Walk With Me]

22. His father was once the head of the CIA.

The CIA armed and trained Bin Laden to fight the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. And under Reagan, also created the little Iran/Contra bit, the Iran hostage situation offer, etc.

The Bush family knows much, is connected to much. I'd very much like to know their plans and connections...

[Lindsey]

28. That's been my question too. It'll be very interesting to see what's

on the computers and papers that we retrieved when we finally got bin Laden.

[Vehl]

32. He..or his Cheney might have ..check this post of mine

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1059758

[NYC_SKP]

37. Well, first of all, Bush was Never in Charge. Secondly, Letting Osama Continue to Live....

...provided a rational to continue the bullshit wars and fear and terra!

I think they could have done it, I think people in power knew.

But GWB was never in possession of enough power or enough brain cells to do a God Damn Thing.

:patriot:

[JI7]

40. i think he just didn't care

[Blue-Jay]

41. The simplest, most likely explanation.

[CJCRANE]

52. The simplest explanation

was that Bin Laden died in the mountains of Waziristan years ago. That turned out to be false.

If the simplest explanation is based on incomplete or inaccurate information then it's usually false.

[treestar]

46. Possible

Alive and threatening, OBL was far more useful to Republican warmongers.

[think4yourself]

51. What I still want to know is...

Why we immediately flew the whole Bin Laden family immediately out of the US on that day?
We could have asked some really great questions of them if we really wanted to find him. Instead we protected him by protecting his extended family.
That Pakistani compound was built in 2005. They closed the desk in 2005.

Obama is not playing ball like the Bush Crime Family did and I for one am feeling better about my government.
The first time in a long while.