Some common sense from Andrew Sullivan re: Weiner.

[hifiguy]

"The key thing here is that we have dispensed with even the pretense of any over-arching justification for this attack on Weiner. He hasn't been accused of adultery or hypocrisy; he has committed no crime; it doesn't seem as if he has spent any public money. No one he corresponded with complained. No harrassment is involved. And yet this case of doing something which is ubiquitous online is equated, in some cases, with Dominique Strauss-Kahn's brutal alleged rape.

I'm just amazed at the resources of American puritanism. This is the first sex scandal I can think of in which there was no even faintly credible reason to do it, but pure partisan hatred, and no actual sex. And yet Nancy Pelosi wants an ethics investigation! Maybe the correct response is for everyone to get a Twitter account and send out some part of their torso. The more the merrier."

More at http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/06/decoding-desire.htm

This, times 1000.

[aquart]

1. Everyone send a dick pic to Breitbart?

[Blue-Jay]

12. I will if you will!

Fantastic idea! Inundate his server with dicks! You should post that idea at 4chan.

[hifiguy]

16. Oh brother. . . .

"You should post that idea at 4chan." :rofl:

[JackInGreen]

77. There are

rules, you realize.
Ahem.

[Blue-Jay]

112. Oh. I know the rules quite well.

[Cassandra]

18. Everyone?

Does that mean I have to borrow someone else's?

[aquart]

28. Exactly my problem. Who to ask? Who to ask?

[1monster]

36. The Internet is awash with someone else's you can borrow. I found these on

http://cgi.ebay.com/hand-carved-boxwood-netsuke-sign-maid-/190541206507?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item2c5d2413eb

[Maraya1969]

157. And the women or men if they are shy can send him this.

Download a pic if you want and only send one or make a collage

http://www.adameve.com/t-top-10-dildos.aspx?sc=SEMGLDIL&cm_mmc=GGL-_-Sex+Toys+-+Dildos-_-Dildos+-+%28General%29+-+%28Broad%29-_-dildos%20broad&kwid=5922e2273b1340fab8ca9f83e493fc19&gclid=CKjn5fyfqakCFUSo4AodSFqsLA

[yurbud]

52. if you can pull it off...

[Cassandra]

74. Ouch!

[harmonicon]

101. No, you can just stuff a zucchini in your shorts. nt.

[yurbud]

51. I think a sphincter to a sphincter would be more appropriate.

[wilt the stilt]

99. He would be in Heaven

or the bathroom. On the other hand he may die of exhaustion.

[NorthCarolina]

191. We'll know for sure if he ends up going blind. nt

[deacon_sephiroth]

106. done and done. N/T

[Maraya1969]

158. I actually don't know how you tweet a pic. Do you take it from your

Flikr or another picture holding site?

[dangin]

119. lens choice...

Can I borrow a wide angle lens?

[savannah43]

120. Send him a picture of your middle finger.

[rucky]

136. He already knows what he looks like.

[B Calm]

171. Okay

[hlthe2b]

2. Response is totally out of proportion to the actual transgressions.

On that, I absolutely agree. Further, it is out of control because DEMS enabled the MSM to take it there. Even to the point on not calling the MSM on their hypocrisy.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

212. Maybe...but what I see here is an absurd level of "outrage" that wow..SOME people are offended

by dick-flashing public officials!!!...Can you IMAGINE?..How postiviley..um..TWENTIETH century!

Let's DEMAND its "tolerance".

So pathetically immature and unrealistic.

As I told someone else hawking this line here,

because of the "double standard" practiced by sex scandalous repukes

AND the fact that a majority of his constituents don't WANT him to resign,

I ALSO disapprove of elected dems trying to hound him into resigning....That

being SAID, I'm not about to join some absurd "Digital dick waving campaign"

Weiner's behavior -- lying included -- was stupid, juvenile, and yes,

offensive I believe to most. Even the constituents, supporting his CONTINUING his term

in office, are not, in the majority, sure that they will vote for him.

Like I said to the other poster jumping on the digital "liberty" bandwagon,

I'm with the grownups here.

[sabrina 1]

3. I like his solution.

Maybe the correct response is for everyone to get a Twitter account and send out some part of their torso. The more the merrier."

We are all V

As he said, this was done for 'pure partisan hatred' and we are helping Andrew Breitbart if we ask Rep. Weiner to step down. When will Dems learn how to fight?

[Lionessa]

5. Dems do seem to fight their friends, these days, over ridiculous sheit

like this rather than tackle anything IMPORTANT to us or the economy or the country's health and well being.

[smirkymonkey]

176. Thank You!

[spanone]

6. amen, andrew

[Dreamer Tatum]

7. But Weiner is being scrutinized for LYING ABOUT IT ALL.

Including bald-faced lies and misdirection to his COLLEAGUES.

[pnwmom]

8. He could have so easily put this all to rest the very next day.

"Yes, I did this. I tried to undo it and I failed. And I did a lot of other stuff, too -- all legal but I now realize very stupid. That's it. I have no more to say. I'm human and I made some dumb mistakes."

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

19. It's his LYING over the course of 10 days that was the problem.

All those stupid press conferences. His colleagues can't trust him anymore -- he lied to them, too.

And it's also the sheer STUPIDITY. How could he not know that with 6 women and countless tweets and emails, how could he not know that he would be caught -- that he'd be shown as the liar he is?

[TheKentuckian]

59. Lies are earned and deserved when one insists on asking about things that are none of their business

[Dreamer Tatum]

63. His lies are absolutely the concern of his colleagues

who don't want to look like asses if they're going to defend him.

[harmonicon]

104. Are you really not aware of the irony of what you've just written?

Congressmen lying?! No way!! Say it isn't so!! 98% of those bastards, including Pelosi, are professional fucking liars. When it comes to lies, I think Weiner is pretty low on the totem pole.

[Bluenorthwest]

121. So you think it is alright for them to lie, because 'that's how they

are'? Absurd. Dangerous. Try this on for size: if they are all lying all the time, then Tony's mistake was getting caught, and you need to find the others doing the same, rather than simply declare that the rest are as guilty as he is. He lied to people. John Edwards did his shit, slandered gay people, and the man lied to me, personally about it. When a person lies to me directly, they best keep that lie flying, or when found out, I will come down like a fire from heaven. Sorry. Do not lie to me.
It is disgusting to claim that everyone does what he did. It is not true. In his dreams, his 'I need therapy' dreams, sure. Not in real life.

[GOTV]

135. I think it's OK when they lie about sex

[harmonicon]

154. Seriously?

You think these people tell the truth even about how they'll do their jobs, or why they want these jobs? They don't. Weiner lied about his personal life, but I don't think he's lied to get himself elected, and I don't think he lies about what his priorities in Congress are. As for who in Congress lies about their personal lives, I don't know, and I don't care. I do care about the other things Congressmen can and do lie about, and most of them do. That is what sickens me, but thankfully Weiner is one of the few who does not lie about the things that matter to his job.

[Dreamer Tatum]

132. Then why is LIAR even in our lexicon?

I would venture that any text analysis of DU would turn up LIAR or LIE pretty high on
the list on non-phatic words. But if lying is just part of the job, then who cares
if they lie?

[harmonicon]

155. It shouldn't be part of the job.

If politicians didn't lie, DU probably wouldn't exist, because we might have an informed electorate which would put in place a government so dull and effective that it would go largely unnoticed. I hope that happens some time. However, the case is that most Congressmen are lying sacks of shit who will do or say anything to get elected, then reelected, and so on, just to be powerful. I do not think Weiner tells those kind of lies. I think he's honest about what he wants in Congress, and I think he wants things that are good and just for his constituents and the rest of the US population. That is certainly a great rarity in Congress. Lying about his personal life? I don't fucking care, because he's not my friend and he's not my family, so it's none of my fucking business.

[oldbanjo]

111. All politicians lie and most clam to be Christian

and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that's a lie.

[Bette Noir]

84. +1000

[frylock]

144. lame

[RB TexLa]

198. Rec

[earcandle]

166. Bill Clinton lied, had actual sex with an aide who was not a minor, and now he is king of the world.

So leave Anthony alone.... Stay where you are Anthony!  Nancy
has to back off. 

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sonoman]

11. That, and lending some degree of credibility to Breitbart.

He knowingly, intentionally and repeatedly hung his supporters out to dry and that's enough for me.

Sonoman

[phleshdef]

13. People are allowed to lie about their sex lives unless there is a legal issue involve.

As a general rule, no consenting adult owes anything but their own significant other the truth about their sex life. If someone wants to lie to protect information about sexual things they are involved in, unless they are breaking the law, they should have the right to lie about it.

I'm for the whole truth and nothing but the truth 99% of the time. But there are a small minority of things that people can and should be able to lie about without people making a big deal out of it. What Anthony Weiner has done is monumentally stupid. But its not criminal and his lying about his own damn sex hangups doesn't, in any tangible way, negatively impact anyone but him, his wife and maybe the women he was cybering around with. If he is shunned by his constituents for anything, it should be for the incompetence that got him caught. Anyone that stupid maybe shouldn't be in Congress. But then again, the Republican half of Congress is full of a lot more stupid than that and those people aren't going anywhere.

[Dreamer Tatum]

14. And people who are lied to are allowed to not like it at all. OK? nt

[Lionessa]

21. Okay. Let me ask you something else...

Are you ready to disregard all the hundreds, perhaps thousands now, of days that Weiner worked his ass off for us because of 10? Do the math, you're being awful judgmental about what 1-3% while deciding that the entire 97-99% of his time was worthless and will be worthless.

I hope you don't get judged too harshly for some 1% thing you did.

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. Ask his colleagues, some of whom are urging him to quit.

And I seriously doubt that there is no other strong Dem for that seat.

[Lionessa]

26. No, you're the one here, right now, trashing him, I'm asking YOU.

I'm guessing that you're not answering because you've done the math, so now you need to blame some others, instead of taking responsibility for your extreme judgmentality

[Dreamer Tatum]

29. I'm not trashing him. I just think he's proven himself an unreliable colleague. nt

[Lionessa]

65. He's not your colleague, is he? Has he legislated or discussed

issues, or voted in a manner you felt betrayed what he said he was going to office to do? Did he ever say he would be honest about his personal life? I don't recall anything like that. He said he'd go and fight the good fight in Congress, that's his promise, he's kept it. It's US and MSM who are breaking our promise to him. Which in my opinion is to judge him by his legislative persona and efforts there, and otherwise, mind our own damned business.

[phleshdef]

48. And those people are nosey asses that I don't particularly care about.

[Dreamer Tatum]

60. His Dem colleagues, who need to trust him, are "nosey asses."

Right.

Defense of Weiner requires a degree of nihilism that takes my breath away.

[whathehell]

147. You can say that again...A good deal of DU seems to have lost it's collective mind on this issue

I liked Weiner...He was a good progressive...I don't even

particularly agree with those calling for his resignation and

I'll go so far as to say that, given the non-action of the Right

regarding THEIR sex scandals, e.g. Vitter, etc., and the fact that

51 percent of his constituents WANT him to run again,

he should be permitted to do so.

That being said, I'm NOT going to go with the "blame deflection"

I'm seeing here...Weiner is largely responsible for the predicament he's in.

He's a middle aged man and a savvy public figure...He knew the score.

[totodeinhere]

160. Being nosey has nothing to do with it. Either he lied or he didn't and I guess I am

one of those old fashioned people who still believe that lying is wrong.

[GOTV]

137. Sure, you're allowed. You look petty though.

[Lionessa]

15. Ding Ding Ding, you got it right.

[Whisp]

17. and congressmen who use their real names and send their weeny thru cyberspace

are not too sharp.

lordy don't we all know this is just the thing CNN and Breitbart and all those baskerville hounds thrive on and he gives them a nice wrapped up package. I don't really care aobut what he did but I do care that someone with that much responsibility is just so fucking stupid that it must hurt.

[Lionessa]

25. Really???? You're now suggesting Weiner is somehow no sharp enough

for Congress because he did what probably 50% of men do regarding sex?

[Whisp]

32. yes, he put his station in jeopardy for this nonsense.

he's an idiot. and I hope hs wife tellsl him to fuck the hell off and throw his bags out on the lawn.

[Atypical Liberal]

44. I agree with you, Whisp.

As someone else on here said, "He's 46, not 96, and this isn't rocket science."

If you aren't bright enough to understand the inherent risks of sending compromising pictures of yourself over the internet to strangers, you aren't very bright.

[Lionessa]

64. I will not discount everything he's done to date because of a stupid

His station is in jeopardy? WTF? Not unless everybody keeps makingmountains out of mole hills. It's his friggin' personal life, like anyone else, he lied, or more accurately he rode a lie that was laid out for him by others. If I recall he initially said he wouldn't even discuss it, but then he was badly hounded about his personal, none of our damn business, online sex life, he did stupid. But he isn't stupid, nor is a liability to anyone that he's representing when it comes to the 99% of what we know about him to date, which is he fights damned hard and loud against the grain of the Republicans and BlueDogs alike.

I will not discount everything he's done to date because of a stupid lie that he was pressured into about something that's honestly none of my damned business.

[Whisp]

67. do you feel like that about repuglicans in similar situations?

I can say I do. Schmucks that think they are invincible Masters of the Universe come in all parties. By station I meant his elected office, his responsibility. This isn't charlie sheen we're talking about.

[Lionessa]

68. The only thing that bothers me about their's is that

they are usually involved in a monetary scandal, like John Edwards (one of ours) and Ensign, and their hypocrisy totally pisses me off. But AW neverrrr, ever rode in on some family/religious/social morality. So he's fine in my book unless and until something indicating criminal or ethical issues involved.

[Speed8098]

102. One thing you're leaving out

do you feel like that about repuglicans in similar situations?

Republicans are very vocal about "moral values" and how gay marriage could lead to bestiality and other such nonsense. Republicans are constantly preaching religion all the while they are actually having affairs(Newt, for one, Rudy for another, but the list is endless) which is something Congressman Weiner has not done. He has never preached about moral values, he has never criticized gay marriage, he has never been vocal against pornography so what's your point?

He has not been hypocritical, he doesn't try to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do with their sex lives. He let his testosterone get the better of him and he had cyber sex and phone sex....Big freaking deal. Who really gives a shyte what you do in your private life other than right wing zealots who are trying to cause people to take their eye off the ball (pun intended).

Personally I don't see the point behind internet or phone sex but it seem like millions of people do. At the end of the day, it's nobody's business but theirs and their family's.

Medicare,medicaid, social security, war, war, war, those are the issues Mr. Weiner is so good at bringing clarity to. Yes, he lied, but he lied about his private life that never even involved actual sex with another woman or man for that matter. Let this silly distraction drop and let him get on with what he is really good at and that is pointing out the HYPOCRISY of the right wing machine.

Breitbart is an ass of he worst kind. Quit feeding his idiotic ego and smack him down for the jackass he is. We have much more important things to think about than whether some man sent pictures of himself to some women who obviously enjoyed it.

End of story

:rant:

[hifiguy]

124. Bingo! nt

[eilen]

94. Agreed , he joined Congress, not the priesthood. nt

[Abq_Sarah]

211. pressured into a lie?

Oh nooo! They made me lie! :sarcasm:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

92. +1

The man has shown callous disregard for his wife (nay, his Bride!)

He is led by his small head and then he lies about it.

I wonder how much of this was done on the taxpayer's dime.

[whathehell]

87. Unlike "probably 50% of men", Weiner is a PUBLIC FIGURE

who should have known BETTER than to act like a fucking frat boy on a tear!

And then there's the fact of the Long Time Lying...Yeah,

ten days is a long time in the 24/7 news world.

[GOTV]

139. "Should have known better" - so what? I like what he does the other 99.9% of the time.

The twitter flasher is one of the fiercest advocates for just thinking in congress. Maybe more of them should be tweeting their junk around.

[whathehell]

141. "So What"?...So he loses respect, credibility and probably his job...That's "so what"

and unfortunately, what "you" like doesn't seem to be helping him..duh.

[GOTV]

205. So what again. I support him, despite your whining, based on 99.9% of his behavior.

This was a mistake of no consequence to his job performance.

What I "like" is the reason he still has the support of his constituents and thus the ability to survive.

[whathehell]

209. That's great, honey

and you're "entitled" to your opinion

just like the rest of us "whiners", are entitled to think you're

full of it.:rofl:

[Bluenorthwest]

123. Link please.

50% of men send photos of their junk while married, over the internet, while serving the public trust? That is just crap you are typing, not anything you have any support for at all. And if, deary, half the straight men are doing this, one must assume half the straight women are joining them, correct? Or are they all sexting the same gal?
Facts are not a matter of improvisation. Not for Tony or for you. See how that works?

[frylock]

145. stats to back that claim plz

thx

[onenote]

162. you think that 50% of men do what Weiner did?

You need to pay a visit to planet earth.

[phleshdef]

49. Are you capable of reading?

I said, and I quote "What Anthony Weiner has done is monumentally stupid."

So no fucking shit. Got something relevant to add?

[Hippo_Tron]

56. It doesn't have anything to do with smart and stupid

Smart people do incredibly stupid things when it comes to sex. Everybody has impulses and some people are better at controlling them than others.

[DrZeeLit]

107. Eggzactly... hellooooo: one word for you: Bill Clinton nt

[Bluenorthwest]

125. Who told you that impulse control is not an aspect of intelligence?

I say intelligent people are far better at seeing past the advantage of the moment and thus avoiding pitfalls.
So stupid is as stupid does. Stupid doing stupid while holding a phd is still stupid. Stupid behavior that involves sex is still stupid behavior.
What support do you have for this notion that one could be both a genius and unable to control impulses, utterly at the mercy of sexual desires? It is a wild claim to make without any evidence.

[Hippo_Tron]

200. So would you say that there are almost no intelligent HIV positive people then?

Because according to your logic, if they were more intelligent they would've all seen past the advantage of the moment and worn condoms when they had sex with people of unknown status.

Or, the better explanation, is that they were fully aware that they were making a bad decision just as Anthony Weiner was fully aware that he was making a bad decision. However, being human, their impulses got the better of them and they made a bad decision even while knowing it was bad.

And since you asked for evidence, there is in fact a very good study on this done by behavioral economist Dan Ariely and psychologist George Lowenstein. Here's the link, http://web.mit.edu/ariely/www/MIT/papers.shtml , scroll down to the paper entitled, "The Heat of the Moment: The Effect of Sexual Arousal on Sexual Decision Making".

[Atypical Liberal]

43. Not when you imply that other people are lying.

As a general rule, no consenting adult owes anything but their own significant other the truth about their sex life. If someone wants to lie to protect information about sexual things they are involved in, unless they are breaking the law, they should have the right to lie about it.

The problem here is that in lying about his sex life, Weiner allowed Twitter and Breitbart to take the heat for his actions. He claimed that his Twitter account had been hacked, which puts Twitter in a bad light. On top of this, for a week he allowed Breitbart to twist in the wind with allegations of faking or using faked photographs in breaking the story.

You can lie about your sex life all you want. And if Weiner had decided to simply say, "I am not going to comment on these photographs" then that would be fine. But instead, he chose to blame others, or allow others to be blamed for the photographs.

That is wrong.

But even if he didn't, once the story was broken we still are allowed to make character judgements on his actions, private or not. Your diary may be private, but if it comes to light that you wrote how you love Mien Kampf and think Hitler was a swell dude, well, people are allowed to make judgements about you because of that private information.

Based on what the public now knows about Weiner, we can safely infer two important things about him: One, assuming she was unaware of what was going on, he was disloyal to the person closest to him - his wife. Two, the man is an absolute idiot for taking compromising electronic pictures of himself and sending them to strangers over the internet.

So private or not, a lot of people are going to judge him as a disloyal idiot, and rightfully so.

[phleshdef]

50. I don't care that he called Breitbart a liar and Twitter accounts DO get hacked.

So your claim about putting Twitter in a bad light holds no weight whatsoever. Twitter is not a fucking victim.

Breitbart is a liar. He just didn't lie about this.

[Atypical Liberal]

122. And peopld do get murdered.

But it is still wrong to frame a murderer for a murder he didn't commit. Falsely claiming that your Twitter account got hacked is to imply that the problem was due to either a poor choice in passwords or that Twitter has a security problem. This is materially damaging to the company - many people will hear "my twitter account was hacked!" and assume that Twitter is inherently insecure and avoid using it. Then he allowed a journalist to be painted as a liar for breaking the story against him.

Lying is wrong. Blaming others through your lie is even more wrong. I'm glad to see at least you aren't disputing what Weiner did.

If someone with these kinds of character flaws is worthy of being a representative of the people for you, by all means, vote your conscious.

[hifiguy]

126. Hmmm...

"for a week he allowed Breitbart to twist in the wind with allegations of faking or using faked photographs. . ."

Gee, too bad that a professional and pathological liar had to "twist in the wind" for a week. I hope Shirley Sherrod reduces this sub human piece of shit to selling apples for quarters on streetcorners and bankrupts him.

Sympathy for Breitbart is sadly ill-placed at any time.

[Atypical Liberal]

149. A wrong done to someone is a wrong no matter who that someone is.

I am only vaguely aware of who Breitbart is. I have never heard him speak until this Weiner fiasco. I am aware that he is some sort of right-wing shill, like Limbaugh, or Coulter, or the rest.

But that does not change the fact that he is a journalist who broke an story and for a week and a half was left with accusations of fakery directly against his professionalism that Weiner was allowing to stand, even though he knew them to be untrue.

[sabrina 1]

27. He lied, so did Clinton, so does everyone in this country who is

caught having SEX! Because we are playing into the rightwing nonsense that sex is sinful.

When we grow up and no longer view the private sexual lives of public figures as mortal sins and shameful, then no one will be lying about it.

I don't care that he lied, I understand why he did. I DO care that any Liberal would make him feel the need to lie about SEX!

This whole episode has been shameful, far more so than anything he did. The judgementalism the 'holier than thou' attitude of people on our side, it is thoroughly disgusting. He did nothing illegal that we know of, he had nothing to apologize for, or lie about. But the puritanical attitude of the right, adapted by the left, is the culprit here.

Sometimes I wonder when this party will stand up for something, for someone. For a principle, such as 'stay out of other people's sex lives'.

This whole 'he had sex, OMG' and 'he lied about OMG' makes me fell like I'm living in some backwards country where sex is a crime.

[Dreamer Tatum]

31. If you make an attempt to read, you will note that my issues with him

is that he lied. Repeatedly. To everyone.

Try reading.

[sabrina 1]

33. I read what you said. Sex and lies go together in a society

views sex as shameful. The two cannot be separated. Back in the 'fifties I suppose it would have been considered shameful for a White Politician to be seen with an African American woman. I imagine such a person caught in such a relationship would have lied about it also, initially.

When we designate something as shameful, we are forcing people into a corner. Now, we have moved on those dark days when mixed relationships were considered shameful, and so, no more lies.

This whole episode has told me that we have a long, long way to go regarding sex. I knew that about the right, I thought we on the left didn't do the sex/shame/sin/lies thing.

[Bluenorthwest]

129. So you are saying that Straights like Tony live in the closet.

I agree. I do not agree that they have a 'right' to present to the world a false construct of themselves. Certainly not to silently play with the 'God is in the mix, one man, one woman' crowd. How could a free wheeling sexualist like Tony stand there and listen to the President and his surrogates shout about how all straight marrieds are 'Sanctified by God' and thus worthy of rights others must never be allowed to sully? See, that is Tony lying about Tony in a way that helps sell lies and slanders about an oppressed group, a group oppressed by Tony's group.
Do you think he has a right to lie about other people in order to protect his lies about sex? If a man has to steal to cover a sex lie, is that lie then also a right? If it is to 'cover sex from prudes' one can slander, lie about their neighbors, and do anything to anyone?
Your reasoning would work if Tony or Edwards or Arnold had been proponents of free love rather than smug participants in a hypocritical show of false behaviors.
It is fairly difficult to endure hearing about how oppressed straight sexuality is. Considering. To be told that Tony could not be honest, but every damn gay person who comes out can be, in the face of actual legal discrimination. Again, the straights are special. Poor Tony, we can not ask him to live honestly as Tony! He might fail to gain something he wants, like money or positions!

[BDavinciNY]

164. Thank you for saying for what needs to be said about Americans and sex

If the Wiener situation has taught us about sex and society in the US that it is still a taboo to talk about it in public. Other countries don't have this problem or don't really care about at all. For some its quite expected a public figure to have sexual escapades and still be well liked unless he has done something egregious. If Americans stop being puritanical about sex maybe we would possibly have a better society that would care less about these things.

The second lesson is that there are a lot of fair weather friends among Democrats and liberals when one of their own gets in trouble. I see lots of comments on DU about Congressman Wiener that he lied to us about this and broke their trust in him and he has to go for something dumb that Wiener was playing around on the internet for cybersex. Many forget that just because he's politician that doesn't mean he's a person too. Yes he lied about his personal life WHICH ALL OF US HAS NO BUSINESS KNOWING ABOUT THAT!! We should stand up for our own that's what a true liberal and friend SHOULD do despite his/her transgressions. Let's remember Congressman Weiner's professional life has nothing to do with his personal life. Even when we stand with Wiener we should tell him to never do what he did again. If we keep throwing people under the bus for something dumb despite the person's better qualities then we will have no one to depend on.There wouldn't be anyone to stand up for us. This is what Wiener does best and we should keep him around. We should stop proving the Repukes that we can police our people better. If Vitter is still in the Senate after paying for hookers because the Repukes stood with him then we should stand with Wiener. Also remind those who call for Wiener's resignation should check your computers and your heads first because I know some of you have some kind of porn on there that you enjoy!:) It not my business and it shouldn't be. We should not forget when the Republican does it he is truly hypocritical because they claim "moral values" and because of such supposed values they claim they are better than anyone else. They have a better knowledge about marriage and relationships when they really don't have any knowledge. Again if Wiener didn't break any laws, and it was consensual, and the girls loved his package, and he loved it too, then he should stay on as Congressman.

Lastly, The MSM SUCKS BIG TIME! There are worse things in the world that is happening now. The Repukes are dispensing their "Fuck Everybody" plan to Americans, while we self-destruct, the world is burning before our eyes, We have who reality stars (Trump and Palin) trying to punk us for running for president and the news focuses on Wiener's wiener because that cockroach Andrew Breitbart tell us to? Come the f*ck on! We have priorities people! Keep your eyes on the damn prize!:puke: :wtf: :grr: :rant: :banghead:

[defendandprotect]

170. We do have to grow up on sexual issues -- but this isn't the way ...

Also, let's not pretend that in other countries the sexual escapades have NOT resulted

in resignations --

We also see the extremes of behavior that have occurred in the IMF head situation where

a hotel employee claims to have been sexually assaulted by him. Are we truly going to

suggest that there is no "sex" which is shameful?


Taking your defense a bit further than you actually took it -- would there be no "shame"

in finding out that any of our politicans are addicted to internet porn, for instance?

Weiner is a Congressman which many here are forgetting - and it is that office and trust

which gave him access to many female "fans" on the internet -- a number of whom say that

the sexual comments and pics were unsolicited.

You do have to begin drawing some lines or next you'll be saying that what Clarence Thomas

did to Prof. Anita Hill was "none of our business" -- !! :eyes:


Let's also make clear that saying Weiner should go doesn't mean that we are defending

Vitter staying!

Anyone still watching MSM deserves what they get -- put the TVs in the closet!!

[BDavinciNY]

186. Yes we have to draw the line but you have see the differences between people doing dumb things and

people doing hypocritical things, D&P you have to understand that. What Clarence Thomas has done to Anita Hill by putting pubic hair in a cup a Coke and suggesting to her to have threeway sex with him and saying inappropriate comments to her was wrong. We faced with that Thomas says to the senate panel that the Anita Hill thing was a "high tech lynching" of him and the Repukes defending him of that. Yet they want to pretend they are better than us because of their moral values.

No I don't think that in other countries that a public figure's indiscretions has not resulted in serious consequences for them. However it hasn't resulted in the outrage that is here with Wiener or Bill Clinton for that matter. I agree with you D&P that when you go in public service there is a trust with the people but , they are still people they are going to do what they are going to do. Wiener didn't show that he has moral high ground or expert on all relationships like the republicans do. I'm a strong believer of practicing what you preach. I you say you have better morals and have the discipline to boot then set the example. Don't go around and plow your secretary and have mommy and daddy to pay to cover it up or pay off you mistress tons of campaign cash to hide an affair and a love child. Yes Wiener used the government's internet and phone to have cybersex but Congressman Ryan use the same government resources to kill Medicare or Christie in Jersey use the state police helicopter and a limo to go 100 feet to see his son's baseball game? At the same time to claim he's "fiscally conservative and vows to stop government waste"

Again what Wiener did was dumb and stooopid but all don't cast him out because of that. Without forgetting all the good he has done for us. Wiener was the one who said out loud on the floor of the House that the Rethugs was a wholly owned subsidiary of the Corporations.And pelted a lung about how the Rethugs voted to stall the 9/11 worker benefits and voted against it anyway> Did Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid say all that? How about Chuck Schumer?, Steny Hoyer? or Sanders? even Dennis Kuchcinich?(sp), anyone? anybody? No !

We can't dump someone to try to impress the Rethugs that we can better police ourselves if they can't police their members! If they broke laws and did illegal things then yes they gotta go for this, no

[defendandprotect]

189. One of the first progressions in these conversations has to be that we will draw a line ...

that has to be acknowledged because it certainly will happen --

unless we are going to suggest that a pervert like Clarence Thomas deserves high office.


What Weiner did was beyond dumb -- and because he is a political figure whom we place

trust in there was harm done to the party and to all Democrats.

We can't confuse, however, what Clarence Thomas did -- and the Repug Party's support

of him even though they probably fully realized he was guilty of the charges -- with

how we judge Weiner or what actions we take.

As far as other countries, clearly "resignations" were demanded because of public outrage.

We have to rid outselves of the idea that it's "Puritanical" to be outraged at all sexual

behavior because that will not be true.

As I mentioned elsewhere I strongly defended Clinton because I recognized that he had very

definitely and purposefully been set up to "lie" -- and certainly what happened between he

and Monica Lewinsky was between two consenting adults. But there were grave questions in

my mind as to whether he had ever pushed his sexual desires on any female. And, I also

recognized that the "smoke-filled back rooms of the Democratic Party" is what used to

protect us from candidates with zipper-problems. We now have corporations choosing our

candidates and I can't stress strongly enough that that reality is what is providing us

with the "bottom of the barrel" candidates -- those willing to sell themselves and our government.


We also can't suggest that because Repugs have done low things -- and they'll continue

to do them! -- that we should accept low behavior from our Dems.

And saying that Weiner should resign is not the same as saying that Vitter and "others" shouldn't

resign as well!


As far as Weiner's political stands, I have to agree with you it is a huge loss -- and in many

ways he is a better democrat than many other Democrats. But he has embarrased himself, his

family and the party and that will make a difference. I imagine that the Repugs would love it

if he doesn't resign!


We can't judge one way when there is a "D" after a politician's name and another way

when there is a "R" after the politicians's name -- they should all be out, imo.

[BDavinciNY]

192. Agreed

Its either we call all Dems and Repubs out on their indiscretions or not at all. But if you had to defend Bill Clinton and still had questions in your mind of what he did and it was consensual then this thing with Wiener was also consensual. Don't believe the hype that the pictures were unsolicited. The women had a role in this too they weren't as innocent as you think they are. I think that Wiener was set up and forced to lie about this non-issue because he had said that Justice Thomas should recuse himself on cases involving the healthcare reform due his wife involved in the lobbyists. That set an attack by Breitbart to troll around the internet for any dirt on Wiener and embarrass him which it worked. To me it's a political hit job.

The reason I and others here on DU is making the Vitter comparison is because Vitter broke the law by paying for prostitution. His involvment in the DC Madam scandal and known record of paying for hookers in NOLA is worse than Wiener did. There was no sex, no money exchanged hands for sex and to cover it up. He was playing around on the internet for cybersex. Isn't that the new national pastime in America? I don't condone his actions but it did not affect his job as a Congressman. If you can defend Bill Clinton because he is a good man then I can defend Anthony Wiener because he's a good man too. We cannot accept unacceptable behavior but we cannot simply oust members for dumb things to prove that we are not like the Repubs. If you want to kick someone out then kick him out for doing illegal things like lying about something serious like war doing acts such as killing Medicare and screwing the American people out of a better or breaking the law like Vitter did, Ensign did, and others that will do thing like that. I'm from NYC though not in Wiener's district in Brooklyn and Queens. I have Charlie Rangel as my Congressman he did wrong too and I still voted for him. If the people of Wiener's district still want him and he should stay on and keep fighting the good fight! Only when the chips are down you know who your true friends are!

[defendandprotect]

196. No --

Very definitely there are females saying that the sexual comments and sexual pics

sent them by Weiner were UNSOLICITED -- !!

Further, think of how dangerous and reckless this was when he had no way of knowing

the true age of those he was interacting with? Wiener himself has admitted this.

And, if you are correct and Weiner was "framed" on the internet by various women ...

how much dumber is that still?

My husband made an interesting comment --

"With a name like 'WEINER' you'd think he would have learned something growing up!"

If he hasn't learned something of the dangers at this point, when would he learn?




The questions I had about Clinton weren't about Monica -- or even about Paula Jones.

But about one or two other cases that were quietly in the background. One woman

who was a Dem who said he had groped her in the Oval office, for instance.

Stuff like that -- but nonetheless -- since I had no way of knowing I did not support

impeachment.


I'm not supporting Vitter -- he should be gone --

and we should have been investigating the DC Madame Scandal and her "suicide" --

but it's not about "better or worse" -- it's about BOTH of these men being wrong.


If 50% of the nation is playing "cybersex" on the internet that may explain why the planet

is burning up with Global Warming! :evilgrin:


Calls were made from Weiner's Congressional office -- there is NO way that you can say this

didn't effect his Congressional life. And it is certainly effecting it now -- and it's

effecting the Dem Party, DU and his family.


Let me also suggest that the Repugs will be delighted to have Weiner stay --

and yes it will be up to voters the next election --


Again -- sadly, Weiner did Clarence Thomas a huge favor -- !!



:)

[BDavinciNY]

199. Hmmm...

D&P I can presume that that you are a woman that you are offended by Congressman Wiener's actions and you hold him to a high standard of decorum while as a member of Congress. I understand that. I don't like this either. I also see that you are a party person that want whats good for the party first not what the people want. You missed my point about Vitter in my last post. The point was that a guy who broke the law when he was paying for hookers and the Repubs stood behind him regardless. Vitter should have gone to jail and prosecuted for it but it was never brought up. And Vitter is still a senator. What do we Dems do in same situation, if the facts state that Wiener didn't do anything illegal it was just a dumb move on his part. We overreact and to prove we can police our members better we kick him out despite all the good he has done. He's instantly out. If the Repubs don't do that to the people and always have their back then why do we do it to our people? Because we fear an attack ad from them. We gotta start learning to stand up for our people when there there is trouble in our ranks and cast them out when do something serious such as breaking the law or doing something shady. Yes Wiener lied to all of us. But he lied to protect his personal life (something that we are not privy to ) not something in his professional life. (something that we are privy to) I'll leave you with this D&P. I all of us here on DU or any street corner in the America had to reveal everything about our private lives then it wouldn't be so private then. If Ann Coulter did want to talk about her 3 engagements (ick!) then why do we have to know everything about Wiener's life. I say again if you felt Clinton was still good enough to be president and you defend him despite all his transgression , then I can defend Congressman Wiener too because I feel he a good man. That's how I see things. You see things your way. I would say I agree to disagree.

PS. D&P this is a great debate between us and I hope we can have more of this on future topics!:D ;-)

[BDavinciNY]

203. An addendum D &P

You are also falling for Breitbart's lies by repeating what you have said in your post when he's suggesting Wiener is possibly speaking to underage girls. You are also falling for the right wing tricks too when you are demanding Wiener out of office. You have to stop using the knee-jerk reactions and think about why and how this was brought up first. Again Weiner was very outspoken congressman that the Repubs and the RW hated very much. When he said that Justice Thomas should step aside if cases like healthcare reform came up on the Supreme Court's bench because Thomas' wife is a lobbyist for the insurance industry. After what Wiener said the RW monkeys and minons such as Breitbart was dispached to find dirt on Wiener and reported on the underwear stuff before Wiener had to respond yea or nay about it. And the rest is history.

Your husband maybe right but growing up with the name Wiener he was probably constantly teased about from college on until he was on the NYC City Council.

The Republicans forced out Chris Lee from the 26th district in Upstate NY (Where we won!) for a shirtless photo of himself to on Craigslist without really knowing what for besides looking girls there. He was cast out of the party for that. They protected Vitter because he was important to them within the party despite doing something illegal. So why do we have to prove that to the Repubs if they are not consistent in actions with their members.

Its an issue because Breitbart wanted to be an issue. We need to after a-holes like him because they are hunting for liberals and Dems like Wiener to pick us off one by one. From the Shirley Sherrod situation you should know that Breitbart is pathologial liar with great malice to others. Hes a dangerous man After he blackmailed Wiener of releasing a photo of his genitals if he came after him Breitbart did it anyway. A photo that was privately sent from Wiener. If anything we all should go toe to toe with Breitbart and the RW for going after Dems and liberals whom they disagree with!

[defendandprotect]

214. Only catching up with this now ....

First I generally know nothing about Breibart or his lies -- except what I

occasionally see in print on DU --

BUT IT WAS WEINER HIMSELF WHO WAS ASKED THAT QUESTION -- I.E., HOW COULD YOU BE

SURE OF THE AGE OF THE FEMALES? -- AND WEINER ANSWERED THAT HE COULDN'T BE SURE!!

Thomas is pervert -- and his wife is pretty much "Atilla the Hunt" -- !!

And I would love to see them out --

What Thomas has done is illegal -- and we should be pushing Congress and Obama to

deal with that reality and stand against him.

Why should that job be left up to Weiner -- alone?

I don't know anything about what happened in upstate NY and hope you all get it straightened out --

however, Vitter is a Repug -- and they will protect him vs deal honestly with him.

Weiner is a Dem and we have to deal with him and has nothing to do with any other case of

justice or injustice.

And how many politicians don't understand that the rw is after them?


Try to answer my question about Hillary -- what if she had been e-mailing pics of her

vagina to her politican fans?


Catch up with you later --

[defendandprotect]

208. hmmmmmm........

Hi back to you !!

But, you're wrong -- I'm not a sexual prude -- and I'm not shocked -- but I am female.

Anyone who follows any of my posts understands I am very un-Puritan like.

Nor am I a party person -- but I certainly can feel compassion for those here at DU and

within the party who trusted Weiner and supported him while he was lying!

I support small "d" democracy --

Think you have to disconnect from the Vitter issue because no one is saying that he should

still be in Congress -- rather we are saying that he should be OUT.

What we need to do is NOT imitate the Repugs -- and we should deal with Weiner as we see

fit, not as the Repugs would do!

This isn't about "sex" and it isn't about anything "illegal" --

It's about very poor judgment which is something no one wants in a Congressman.

And, agree with you -- it is sad and a loss -- but why didn't Weiner think about those things

before he got involved in this juvenile and dangerous nonsense?

Let me ask you, if Hillary Clinton had emailed pics of her vagina to her political "fans"

on the internet, would you be feeling the same way? :evilgrin:


Maybe you don't know this, but re Clarence Thomas -- who is the GOP's ticket for getting a

lot of vile things done like putting W in the Oval Office --

but he had a very strong backer for his nomination -- Repug Sen. Danforth -- who also had quite

some interests in a case that was before Thomas and needed a favor done. His family's business

was Ralston Purina and there was a serious lawsuit against them. You can google it.

Danforth told Thomas that EVEN IF HE WAS GUILTY that he would continue to support him.

Is this the way we want those who represent the people to behave?

Is this the kind of people we want to be involved in our government, or to be like?

Also keep in mind that Sen. Joe Biden had a great deal to do with protecting Clarence Thomas

and moving him onto the Supreme Court!

Keep in mind I defend your right to defend Weiner -- !!


And in many ways I regret that we are all spending so much time on this, however, it has to

be discussed when the issue arises! A lot going on -- and hope that you are paying attention

to the environmental stuff -- Global Warming -- and Fuku.

Those are the huge issues!


And, I trust someone will come along and finally bring Thomas to accountability!!

:)

[BDavinciNY]

213. Well...

Yep I would be disgusted if I have seen Hillary Clinton's vajayjay on the Internet. I would puke (And I'm a guy) I agree that such behavior is uncalled for and they has to be accountable for their actions regardless. However I feel you don't kick a man when he's down I feel those who are calling for Wiener's resignation are doing that and being afraid to stand up against the RW.Tha's my point. Thanks for respecting my rights to in defending Wiener we New Yorkers (those in NYC anyway) stand tall for our own. I respect you for your opinions and your reasons why Wiener should go. In the end its Weiner's wife and not us that has to deal with it just like Hillary had to deal with Bill. If you caught your husband doing something like this I bet you he will be on his butt like flies on rice and he'll spend some time on the couch:D That would my between you and him and not me. It seems nothing will happen to him now and if he survives this he'll know better. Hopefully he will bounce back from this and fight harder for all working folk.

If anything all of use should be aware when you do this sexting thing on your phone and online the would have to think two, three four and five different times before they post the picture! Another lesson we have to be on the watch for the RW minions that look up a lot of dirt for those they don't like. If you work for the or doing anything for the public keep it clean. I know these public figures can have a private life too but the public and private can't mix that has to take discipline for that. It's hard to do this in our 24 hour tell everything world but not impossible.

I hope you and I can agree that DC is a nasty place to be. All the corruption and the money flying everywhere and both sides on the take makes me want to puke! This is one reason I don't want to be politician its too much ass to kiss from the party bosses and donors to your own fellow legislators. It seems its every man for him/herself.

For Justice Thomas he is one of the worse people to ever sit in the Supreme Court (I'm African American BTW) He's definitely no Thurgood Marshall I reviewed many of the cases he sat on and never showed any distinction. I feel he's Scalia's boy. What ever Scalia says, Thomas agrees too. Trust me D&P I do pay attention greatly since the BushCrime Family rammed in to the White House in 2001 and since the war in Iraq. I feel that there are bigger fish to fry and not focus on the distractions like Breitbart and the RW minions want us to!

Again I hope that you and I enjoyed our little debate together and hope that we talk more on future topics !
B-)

[defendandprotect]

216. Thanks for the response ...

re Hillary -- would you have suggested that she stick around -- or that she

should have resigned? And if you wanted her resignation wouldn't that have been

"kicking a woman when she is down" -- ?

I'm an old New Yorker myself -- NYC --

If Weiner can pull it off and survives this fine with me -- and I imagine fine with the GOP.

Might work if he changes his name -- ? :evilgrin:


DC --- well, I don't have a lot of personal experience there -- there have been good people

but generally now only corrupt in charge of government now -- imo.

Fortunately, others keep us posted on much of what's going on -- but again been years since

I had any personal business there with anyone.

HOWEVER, the DC Madam case is something I hope we one day get reinvestigated.


For Justice Thomas he is one of the worse people to ever sit in the Supreme Court (I'm African American BTW) He's definitely no Thurgood Marshall I reviewed many of the cases he sat on and never showed any distinction. I feel he's Scalia's boy. What ever Scalia says, Thomas agrees too. Trust me D&P I do pay attention greatly since the BushCrime Family rammed in to the White House in 2001 and since the war in Iraq. I feel that there are bigger fish to fry and not focus on the distractions like Breitbart and the RW minions want us to!

Again I hope that you and I enjoyed our little debate together and hope that we talk more on future topics !

Yes -- completely agree with you re Thomas -- I'm sure you know the Thurgood Marshall quote

when he was retiring and the journalists were asking him if he thought that Poppy Bush would

honor his seat as a "black seat" --

And I was watching it on C-span -- and Thurgood Marshall said --

"It isn't the color of a snake that is important. What's important is whether

or not the snake bites!"

Loved him - there was another African American Judge whose name I don't really know who should

have been on the Supreme Court -- fantastic man -- and he called Thomas a "Judas" --

It's really sad how completely the right wing has succeeded, but only via political violence.



Think we've both said as much as we can on this --

See you on the next thread -- !! :)

[defendandprotect]

168. You can't say that there is no sex which is "shameful" ...

a Congressman sending unsolicited sexual comments and pics of himself to political

"fans" -- available to him because of his office -- would be one example, imo --

[Moonwalk]

83. Well, when Republicans lie about their sex lives, they get to apologize and keep their seats....

At least David Vitter did. And his colleagues still seem to trust him. Check out the Rachel Maddow segment on it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x590493

I think the problem I see is that Democrats are jumping to Republican tunes again, and I just don't like it. They could use this opportunity to tell Republicans that if they want someone to resign, they should demonstrate how it's done and ask Vitter to do it. Then they, Democrats, will follow their example. But I don't think Democrats, however embarrassed or angry at the lies, should allow themselves to be puppeted by Republicans into sacrificing Weiner on any alter of partisan opinion. They're just cutting off their noses to spite their face if they do that.

Republicans always circle the wagons and hang together---and that's a very successful tactic. It's gotten them everything they've wanted even when they were in the minority. Democrats need to start doing the same, or else they will be picked off, one by one.

[onenote]

163. I think Vitter should've been forced to resign, but when did he lie?

Vitter admitted his frequenting prostitutes the day after the story about it broke. I suspect that if he had denied the allegations he wouldn't have been able to hang on. And other repubs have resigned: Bob Livingston, Mark Foley, Chris Lee. Others, like Craig and Sanford, barely hung on until their terms ended and then vanished.

Vitter is more the exception than the rule.

[defendandprotect]

172. Therefore, we go to set the limbo stick at Vitter/GOP levels?

[Speed8098]

108. David Vitter

No resignation 3 years later.....:popcorn:


Next.

[closeupready]

34. Of course, sex WAS a crime until just recently - gay sex and 'sodomy' were prosecuted

crimes in Texas and elsewhere in flyover country. We're probably just about only ten years from that Supreme Court decision that ruled such laws unconstitutional.

[sabrina 1]

37. Yes, and if Andrew Breitbart and his crew and his funders had

their way, it will be again. It was people like Anthony Weiner who fought those prejudices.

I think for some on the left, sadly, sex is still a sin. I have not seen anyone so vilified as Weiner has been, on the left, on this board, for anything like war crimes, torture etc.

If Democrats would take a stand on this, it could be used as an opportunity to change things. He did nothing illegal, but a gang of prurient, sexually inadequate and repressed morons from the far right spent months peering in through his virtual window, certain that he was committing a huge sin and that when they revealed it, the whole country would agree. And I guess they were right.

If it were up to me, I would ask those reporters who can't seem to care about real news, 'just what is so important about this? a man engaged in online sex??? This is what you are occupying your time with? I have no more time to waste on this and you all should be ashamed of yourselves'. That's how they should be spoken to.

[closeupready]

42. It's an INSANE waste of time.

Some people here just apparently live in whitebread flyover America where everyone they know goes to the Baptist church on Sunday and French is "ethnic". Oh well.

[sabrina 1]

57. Yes, it's always amazing how many perfect people we discover

at times like this. And I thought there was no such thing! :eyes:

[GOTV]

140. Exactly. That's why - from the beginning, the response should heve been "It doesn't matter" not ...

... "he didn't do it"

Do defend a guy you don't even know is just silly.

[whathehell]

217. Thanks for the shout out from frat boy world!

The only problem is,

It tends to fall flat

at about age thirty.:rofl:

[frylock]

146. the liberals made him lie?

fuck me..... :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

167. Surprised --

we are in disagreement -- and I'm reading and re-reading your comments

trying to figure out why my feelings are so far apart from yours --

Obviously the public didn't want Clinton impeached -- and I feel strongly it was

entrapment and he was forced to "lie" about "sex."

However, was there no line we would have drawn on Clinton had we known about his

sexual escapades before his candidacy? Am I free from the thought that he never

pushed himself on a female? Somewhere we all begin to draw lines and I recognized

that while I could and did defend Clinton against the Repugs, I couldn't totally defend

him in my own mind.


Are we sexual "puritans" if we think there is some line that was crossed by Clinton

and by Tiger Woods and by Clarence Thomas? After all, technically neither Tiger Woods

nor Clarence Thomas did anything illegal.

Rather, I almost think that Edwards is one of the better cases for arguing that he was

forced to lie about his affair -- and given his wife's illness, probably the better case

for me to understand his trying to buy silence. And yet few still defend Edwards.


My concern about the ies is where they betray the people who believe in them --

i.e., how DU'ers who trusted Weiner strongly defended him against "Briebart's lies" --

in fact, many DU'ers thought Weiner should run for president.


There's also a strange defense of Weiner which goes something like "so many others

have done worse things -- " which amazes me --

Somehow if you feel that Weiner behaved inappropriaely for a member of Congress then

you are for letting Bush/Cheney and Republican's get away with their crimes.


Not that I'm much for defending the Democratic Party these days, but Weiner certainly

hasn't helped in that regard, either. The internet can have a very dark side as we

see from the vile pornography which pops up even in the most innocent places --

catching us off guard from time to time. Try for an image of a Sesame Street character

called "Gonzo" and see what you get.


I haven't read all of the reactions by the females Weiner was trying to be involved

with on the internet -- but at least one or more suggest that his sexual comments/pics

were unsolicited. Which again brings up the question of access and trust and power

which his office provided him.


Additionally, Weiner himself has admitted that there was no way he could be sure that

any of these females were underage.


I'll be looking for your other comments on this to try to understand why so many here

still strongly support Weiner.


:)

[krabigirl]

46. how sad that Bush was never taken up on his lying.

[yurbud]

54. great call-back to the conservative excuse tor talking about Bill Clinton's dick

[BlueCaliDem]

82. Naive

You actually believe the Democrats wouldn't hang him out to dry if he'd told the truth from the get go? Really? You actually think pro-Republican corporate media would've said, "Oh well. He confessed. Let's move on to the next story." Really?

The Democratic Party is notorious for dumping on their own while defending Republicans no matter what. Every Democrat knows this.

You actually think corporate media would've asked the tough questions of Cantor et al if they really cared about the truth? They haven't. Not once. Instead, they allow Brainfart to pontificate unquestioned every which way he pleases without challenge, without demanding where he got those pics, and WHY he deemed it important enough to get them and expose them.

Oh you of WAAAAY too much faith.

[Clear Blue Sky]

97. bingo

[Larkspur]

142. But he didn't lie under oath, like Bill Clinton did

The press aren't entitled to the truth, like the courts and law enforcement are.

What Weiner did was show a lack of good judgement. He's not a teen or young adult who could be forgiven this behavior due to immaturity. He's in his lat 40's or early 50's and was acting like a frat boy.

In his professional career, Weiner was going after big fish, like Justice Clarence Thomas. When you do that kind of thing, you better not have any skeletons or lewd photos in your closet or twitter accounts. That stuff is fodder for the backlash that will come after you because you dare to hold the powerful accountable. Now Weiner is being humiliated for behaving stupidly.

I liked Weiner, but he screwed himself and has harmed his chances of holding Justice Thomas accountable along with supporting other progressive causes.

[connecticut yankee]

161. But he didn't lie under oath.

[Liberal Veteran]

20. Look, it's pure human nature to try to weasle out of an embarassing situation...

I am having a hard time dealing with the vehemence of his denials, however. He dragged this out by not coming clean and put a lot of people in the position of defending him because we took him at his word.

In a nutshell, he took advantage of our trust.

As a human being, I completely get his reaction, but he managed to embarrass the people defending him by not coming clean.

[Lionessa]

23. I don't know, I don't see it as soley his fault most were too quick to make

a decision about the issue. It's not only a reflection on him, but also on us for not waiting for the truth. We should all no by now the "whole" truth about things like this are slow to surface, and we should all be wise enough to hang tight till we know. Most didn't, I did, perhaps why I don't feel as betrayed as y'all

[hifiguy]

24. I am surprised at the number of people here

who aren't addressing - even in the slightest - the very valid points Sullivan makes. Cannibalizing a voice like Weiner's in the name of what seems to me to be exceedingly prudish moral hair-splitting is not a productive thing.

And a big :thumbsup: to whomever said that "lying" about one's sex life to people who are not involved therein is hardly a grounds for moral outrage. Some things just ain't anyone else's business.

And yes, I made exactly the same arguments back when Clinton was being impeached. If it has nothing to do with the performance of official duties, it shouldn't mean squat to a tree. Which is why Thomas should be impeached for running what amounts to a judicial influence-peddling scheme with his 'bagger wife.

[Atypical Liberal]

45. You don't get to lie at the expense of others.

And a big :thumbsup: to whomever said that "lying" about one's sex life to people who are not involved therein is hardly a grounds for moral outrage. Some things just ain't anyone else's business.

Except you don't get to lie and pass off the blame to someone else, as Weiner did to Twitter and Breitbart. See my post above.

[hifiguy]

127. Your extraordinary concern for the piece of

shit known as Breitbart is duly noted.

[frylock]

150. it's an extraordinary concern for CREDIBILITY..

hey, you go right ahead and trust a guy that would lie about hacked accounts and criminal investigations.

[Atypical Liberal]

152. As I have said elsewhere...

As I have said elsewhere, I am only vaguely aware of who Breitbart is. I have never heard him speak until this Weiner fiasco, nor do I think I've read anything he wrote. I've chalked him up to the likes of Limbaugh, Coulter, and other right-wing shills that I have never heard or only heard very briefly in passing.

Whether or not Beitbart is a piece of shit or not is irrelevant. Telling lies that call into question a journalists integrity is wrong, no matter who the journalist is.

Your acceptance of telling lies as long as they are about bad people is also duly noted.

[closeupready]

30. And ZING, Sullivan finally manages to get something spot on correct.

K&R

[LadyHawkAZ]

35. I'm sick of "It's the LYING!!!1!"

It's not the lying. Look around at all the tolerance oozing from the rank and file even here. The man's been demonized, slimed, called every name in the book, told he's mentally ill and urged to seek help, because he talked sex to a woman not his wife. Touched no one, just TALKED and sent photos. I can't imagine, with all the understanding and acceptance *we're* showing, WHY anyone might feel the need to lie about his activities. :sarcasm:

Would you tell an LGBT man or woman that they had a psychological problem and needed professional help, just because it was something a) you wouldn't do or want your spouse doing or b) might hurt their career? How about a single man or woman that had multiple partners? A polyamorist? Would you have treated any of those people the way you're treating Weiner right now?

It's not the lying. If you've expressed disapproval for his sexual activities, you brought the lying down on your own head with your own intolerance. The media's pumped up a nothing into a major scandal, and a good chunk of DU has bought right in.

Can anyone point out a single job-related area in which the man has lied? Thought not. It's not the lying.

/rant

[6000eliot]

38. Hooray for LadyHawkAZ!

It's unbelievable some of the nonsense being spouted on here.

[sabrina 1]

39. Thank you! I couldn't agree more.

'Mentally ill' because he enjoys sex, and from the left at that!! It's at the point now that the reaction to this non-story, and it is still a non-story to me, as it is none of my business what he does in his personal life, where I am far more disgusted by the reaction, than by anything he did. And I have a feeling that most sensible people by now, are feeling the same way.

'Would you tell an LGBT man or woman that they had a psychological problem and needed professional help'?? I am afraid that even on the left, if they thought it would cause some political embarrassment for their party, they would.

[LadyHawkAZ]

40. Sickening thought but probably true n/t

[marions ghost]

62. I don't think he enjoys this behavior

the same way you talk about "enjoying sex."

Exhibitionism is a compulsion, an acting out to satisfy other needs. The display of one's genitals for effect and the need to "turn on strangers" is accompanied by guilt and shame. The shame he feels in doing it is part of the whole syndrome. He thinks it's bad, that he and the girls are doing something "bad." Otherwise he wouldn't get off on it. So it's not simply about sex. It could be something about his parents, society's expectations, his own inadequacies. No way to know how it developed as an outlet in him. But it is not particularly healthy when it goes beyond a minor obsession. This is major. But it still does NOT mean he's a liar and a cheater in general.

In a public figure, his mental health IS going to be analyzed, no matter how private you think sex should be between consenting adults. I'll take this over diaper fetishes any day...but it is a fetish and sometimes they can be debilitating.

It's not a non-story because it's a witch-hunt. And that's a story.

[Bette Noir]

86. And how long have you had him in analysis?

What Rep Weiner did was no different than phone sex. No harm, no foul.

[marions ghost]

109. Very different

from phone sex, which is all in the imagination. The thrill that Weiner gets is all about the women SEEING his dick. No woman is getting off on seeing his badly photographed stupid dick...they are getting off on the phone sex aspect and thrill of doing naughty behavior (as defined by society) with a prominent person.

If Weiner were not doing this he would be flashing women directly (and not too many women like having that done to them). Flashing even in cyberspace is rude and it's risky obviously. He needs the thrill of being "bad" (frequently). This is the "good girl/bad girl" thing Clinton had, but Clinton is not an exhibitionist.

I've had him in analysis a week but that's all it takes to see it. Weiner does not "enjoy" this behavior. There can be many drives to such acting out behavior beyond simple sexual gratification. I don't know exactly what made him choose this form of expression, but I believe it is compulsive and not satisfying. Hey, don't trust me, ask a psychologist.

Men seem to understand this adolescent need to display genitals better than women. The men I've talked to --the first thing they say is "he needs therapy." Women are more likely to either not see it as a problem whatsoever, OR they castigate him too much for it. Putting it another way, women tend to see it as "just like phone sex" and so they don't think anything of it, OR they are overly threatened and see it as the same as adultery (and "the man doesn't love his wife)."

I am saying, there's another way to see this. If you consider yourself open-minded, then maybe you can be open to another interpretation:

Description: Exhibitionism is described in the DSM-IV-TR as the exposure of one's genitals to a stranger, usually with no intention of further sexual activity with the other person. For this reason, the term exhibitionism is sometimes grouped together with expression, "voyeurism," ("peeping," or watching an unsuspecting person or people, usually strangers, undressing or engaging in sexual activity) as a "hands-off" paraphilia. This contrasts with the "hands-on disorders" which involve physical contact with other persons.

In some cases, the exhibitionist masturbates while exposing himself (or while fantasizing that he is exposing himself) to the other person. Some exhibitionists are aware of a conscious desire to shock or upset their target; while others fantasize that the target will become sexually aroused by their display.

For Causes and Symptoms: See http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Exhibitionism.html

Just my 2 cents. :shrug:

[Bluenorthwest]

143. I'd offer to you that history shows what a gay Congressman did

when confronted with a scandal. He told the truth. From the start. He did the right thing, before the public and his peers found out about what was going on. Barney had a house mate running an escort service out of his house. Taking advantage of him. Had Barney lied, he'd not be in Congress now. He told the truth.
So the thing is, some value honesty, those of us who endure actual discrimination due to sexuality on a daily basis, this notion that others have to lie sounds like nothing but an announcement of personal cowardice and greed. Listen to me. I and every other gay person who has come out, particularly those of us in the public eye, have risked careers. Fact is, in most of the US, it is legal to fire or evict a person for being gay. And yet millions come out anyway. If nothing else, those people are braver, more honest, more decent and more ethical than Tony or anyone else who lies about themselves because they fear others will then reject them.
When some Democrats claim all straight marrieds are 'Sanctified by God' in 'holy Unions' that must not be sullied by teh gay, Tony just fell silent. He did not step up and tell the truth in order to make a case for those who actually suffer from oppression over sexuality. He did not raise his voice, he did not point out that he was not exactly living a Sacrament, that if God had made his Union, God perhaps has quality control issues. Nope, he stood up and took public vows, which he did not need to do, save for the need to keep the image clean for politics.
The actual analogy re: Tony and teh gay is thus: If some politician denied being gay and called those who said he was liars, then two days later just said 'ok I am', that politician would have done huge harm to preserve his own behind, and that, not the sexuality, would be the issue. When he says "I am not that" he is also tainting all who get painted with the moralistic lie brush. Honest straight people would lead to equal rights very quickly, it is in fact the closeted nature of Straight sexuality that causes the oppression of gay people. Many 'average couples' savor that status as suburban poster kids, but they also want a dundgeon filled with toys, a set of playmates, what have you. But they do not want this to be known. Like Tony, they keep their truth in a hermetically sealed container, and they get very upset at teh gay for speaking our truths. They want us closeted for their sakes, they want to be Ozzie Nelson in public, and Ozzie Osbourn in private. They want to live double lives. Tony did. Was he compelled, by force, to stand up and promise fidelity? No. Free will, in public, he made his false vows.
The day I read straights actually being honest, they can have the support of other honest people. Tony is a closet case who calls honest people liars to hide his own truth. Same thing John Edwards did. "I'm the son of a Baptist Deacon, marriage is to me a spiritual thing for one man and one woman joined by God." He explained why teh gay should not be equal to his own sterling marriage. Now you claim he 'had to' and it is all understandable? He was forced to claim he was what he was not, and also that my family was of lower moral standing than any one of his breeding partnerships or 'marriages' or whatever they are called when they are shams and lies.
If folks wish to lie about themselves, fine. The second that lie becomes about me, or another, that is not fine. Every straight person who plays the marriage theater without noting that it is not exactly a Sacrament helps tell the lie that does great harm to my people.
They can either have the cake or eat the cake. They can not bake it, eat it, deny it to others then claim there never was any cake.

[krabigirl]

47. i'd like to see what's in their closets. usually those that scream the loudest, are most afraid

of their own dark secrets coming to light.

[marions ghost]

53. Agree = "It's not the lying"

and I don't like the demonizing, the witch-hunt either. I DO think he needs help (and to say that he needs therapy is NOT "demonizing"). It's not really healthy when it becomes compulsive.

I don't think the behavior can be compared to people who have multiple partners. Not the same thing.

What it is = exhibitionism. He just wants to display his dick and get off on that. Like the trench coat guys, he doesn't really want to go further. He can't stop, even to the point of self-sabotage. It's a sad shameful affliction. He can still do his job well at the same time I think. And he can still be in love with his wife. It's a contradiction, but not all that uncommon.

"A good chunk of DU has bought right in..." = YES, true!! The longer this goes on, the more you see it. We are playing into the hands of our political enemies.

Wake up DU.

[yurbud]

55. if it were just the lying, Bush would have been run out of office before his first term was over

[gkhouston]

61. +1000 and should be it's own OP. n/t

[Lionessa]

66. Bingo, well said. ::clapping::

[frylock]

151. you can't redefine words to suit your agenda..

lying is lying is lying whether you're gay, straight, repub or dem. the circumstances the subject is under make no difference whatsoever. weiner brought this shitrain on himself.

[LadyHawkAZ]

159. I didn't redefine anything

I pointed out that there was a perfectly good reason for it, and it's one that a lot of people in alternative lifestyles face. Circumstances do make a difference.

[frylock]

165. weiner isn't living an alternative lifestyle..

he's just trolling the web.

[LadyHawkAZ]

183. you can't redefine terms to suit your agenda

Main Entry: alternative lifestyle
Part of Speech: n
Definition: a way of life considered unconventional or nontraditional according to a social or cultural "norm"
Example: alternative lifestyle personal ads

[frylock]

185. well okay then!

you win!!! :eyes:

[Maraya1969]

178. I heard someone ask him whether he was going for couselling of something for this.

Stupid. And then when I brought up that that penis picture could be of anyone, including Beitbart a lot of people jumped down my throat. WTF?

Oh and I went to Breitbart's forum page and you should see the crap they through at me when I brought these things up. I posted again and Breitbart's people deleted my comment, or didn't publish it.

They just want to see the man suffer.

[Maraya1969]

180. Another thing I think happens is the person does not want to hurt his/her wife so of course they lie

It is not always right to tell your husband or wife that you cheated. Doing it is bad but I think bringing up the situation to your partner is just going to hurt them and probably your marriage. So it also makes sense that these people would not want their spouse to find out so they lie about it. When Anthony Weiner was talking about what happened he started to cry when he first mentioned his wife. And I feel sorry for her too.

[whathehell]

210. Now, that's what I call

a damn shame, honey,

because some of US are "sick"

of the defense of sleaze AND lying

In fact you, and a few others might

want to practice a little of that "tolerance"

you preach and extend it toward

what some call "mainstream" sexual mores,

even if you yourself are not

well acquainted with them.:hi:

[fascisthunter]

41. tell that to the...

conservative dems who want to cleanse the party of all liberals and real dems who stand up for the little guys..

[TheKentuckian]

58. I don't give a shit what Sullivan has to say and wouldn't piss on his wretched ass if he was on fire

but he is right as rain on this one.

[Hamlette]

69. Greenwald made the same point, and more disgusting, the people in the media who are

pushing this do the exact same thing. Loved this quote from Sussana Breslin on Sully's site:

Americans are fascinated by political sex scandals because the politician is doing what Americans are doing but won’t admit, or what they wish they were doing but won’t say, and Americans, rather than confess their natural tendencies or sexual fantasies, would rather criticize those political figures who there, but for the grace of God, are doing what Americans wish they were doing.

I can't help but think of the old joke about Austrailians being lucky they got the prisoners while we got stuck with the Puritans. Indeed.

[defendandprotect]

173. If 50% of males are behaving this way, we're at the bottom of the barrel politically ....

and as a species!

Remember -- these women were available to Weiner because of his office --

they were "fans" -- and at least one or more claim that the sexual comments

and pics were unsolicited.

[Hamlette]

194. hell, I"m a 61 year old grandma with no power, office or anything

you hang around the internet long enough, you get unsolicited stuff all the time

I'm shocked at you being shocked that 50% of men do this. 60% of men admit to having sex with someone while married.

If it was unsolicited its not cool but I'm not convinced it was (unsolicited)

The majority of people who use the internet flirt and talk dirty or more.

And kids? Sexting is the next big thing.

[defendandprotect]

197. Didn't say I was "shocked" ...

do you know how many males are now addicted to internet porn?

Is that who you really want running for office?


One or more of the women say it was "unsolicited" --

even if these women were targeting him and baiting him, it's beyond dumb

that he got involved with it --


My husband made an interesting comment --

"With a name like 'Weiner' you would have thought that he would have learned

something about being careful about what he was doing!" --

[Hamlette]

201. I guess I'm one of those people who just don't care

but I also just don't care about what Vitter did, or Larry Craig, or Clinton.

If you needed a delicate, difficult operation and you had your choice between a surgeon who was good or a surgeon who was great but the great surgeon sent dirty pictures of himself to people on the Internet who would you chose. I know, stupid question. We'd all chose the great surgeon. Why is it different for politicians? What Clinton did was unseemly but I'd take him over W or Reagan or any republican last century in a heart beat. I want a politician who can get stuff done, who has the same world view and (mostly) my values. If he does all that, I don't care how he gets his rocks off. Same as I don't care how the best surgeon gets his rocks off. I choose him.

If I'm picking a husband? And he wants to send dirty pics online? He better be the best damned husband in the world or its over. But then, Anthony didn't ask to marry me. He asked to represent me.

[defendandprotect]

207. How many would support Weiner if he were female --- ?

And, let's say had flashed pics of "her" vagina across the internet to her

political fans?


I guess I'm one of those people who just don't care
but I also just don't care about what Vitter did, or Larry Craig, or Clinton.

Care or don't care -- but these are issues which effect the nation --


If you needed a delicate, difficult operation and you had your choice between a surgeon who was good or a surgeon who was great but the great surgeon sent dirty pictures of himself to people on the Internet who would you chose. I know, stupid question. We'd all chose the great surgeon.

Think you're probably quite wrong -- first of all there are also AMA rules --

there are women who have been raped in doctor's offices from GYN's to Psychiatrists --

and one GYN you might recall even CARVED HIS INITIALS on the woman's abdomen swollen with

pregnancy!!


Why is it different for politicians? What Clinton did was unseemly but I'd take him over W or Reagan or any republican last century in a heart beat.

The public didn't want Clinton impeached -- they saw what he did as consentual/between adults.

And, imo, they recognized that he was "framed" into his lie.


Beyond that, I think there was always the question of whether Clinton had ever pushed himself

on any female -- there was one woman -- a Democrat -- who said that Clinton groped her in the

Oval office. I tended to disbelieve Paula Jones -- a different case -- because of those who

were backing her and affiliated with her. Kenneth Starr, for one.


But we don't need problems like this -- or politicians with "zipper problems" --

When the decisions about candidates used to be made in the "smoke-filled back rooms" by the

party itself, they knew who had these problems.

These days our party leaders are picked for us by corporations -- and they prefer people who

are blackmailable and bottom of the barrel types.

See: Clarence Thomas!



I want a politician who can get stuff done, who has the same world view and (mostly) my values. If he does all that, I don't care how he gets his rocks off. Same as I don't care how the best surgeon gets his rocks off. I choose him.

If I'm picking a husband? And he wants to send dirty pics online? He better be the best damned husband in the world or its over. But then, Anthony didn't ask to marry me. He asked to represent me.

As we all can see, corporate-politicians -- those pre-bribed and pre-owned by corporations --

are taking us nowhere but into a downward spiral.

And, how many males would tolerate a wife who was flashing pics of her vagina to her political

"fans" -- ???

Someone like Hillary Clinton, for instance?

When we attempt to say that there are NO LINES to be drawn on sexual behavior we are saying

the impossible -- Clarence Thomas is one proof of that.

[Gabi Hayes]

70. never mind; meant to hit 'preview'

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

71. Almost *ALWAYS* the voice of reason! Thanks, Sully! n/t

[mmonk]

72. LOL. Everyone twitter to all members of Congress now!

I'd rather moon them though.

[RainDog]

73. k&r n/t

[QC]

75. Gee, I remember when Sully was 1000% for impeaching Clinton.

Of course, that was before his own tawdry sex scandal.

[defendandprotect]

174. Doln't recall ...

Sully had a sex scandal?

[QC]

182. Yes,and it was a humdinger.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2001-06-19/news/the-real-andrew-sullivan-scandal/1/

It really is shocking to me how Sully is treated like the Delphic Oracle here, because I remember when he was promoting racist books, baying for the blood of Bill Clinton, and singing the praises of Dick Cheney.

How soon people forget.

[defendandprotect]

187. Thanks -- wasn't familiar with that -- sadly interesting ....

I've always understood Sullivan to be a right winger which is

why I also don't

get the pushing of him here --

As far as I'm concerned, he was finished long ago --

tho I did get the idea that he may be appearing on some TV -- don't know tho.

Who knows if we've heard all that is to be heard about the Weiner stupidity yet?

Keep in mind that quite a few on DU pushed Weiner as a presidential candidate --

something I agreed with based on his various stands on issues -- and now especially

re Clarence Thomas. Sad that's he's almost now done Thomas a huge favor!

Overall think the Repugs would be thrilled to see Weiner stay on!!

[pacalo]

76. K&R.

[blackspade]

78. big kick!

[DFW]

79. What a double standard

David Vitter is still in the Senate, Mark Sanford didn't resign as Governor of South
Carolina and Larry Craig didn't resign as Senator from Idaho. Sanford and Craig served
out their terms and Vitter was even re-elected as Senator from Louisiana AFTER his
whoring around was exposed.

And yet now Weiner is expected to resign? Why, because he's a Jewish New Yorker instead
of a Southern or Western "Christian?" I need a better reason than that. He's doing a fine,
and very needed job in Congress. Let the God Squad rant, but let Weiner keep his job unless
he has committed some prosecutable crime. Congress has already proved, by Republican example,
that what Weiner did is not grounds for expulsion, let alone resignation.

[EFerrari]

89. I need you to say that at #FightBackTony.

Seriously, are we going to let this shit happen AGAIN?

[DFW]

134. Be happy to. Give me the site. n/t

[EFerrari]

188. On Twitter. I'm pushing the tag to gather up the twoops.

Thanks, DFW. He can also use some likes at his facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/AnthonyDWeiner

[DFW]

202. Done deal

I'm not a big Facebook user, and couldn't find how to post my comments there, but his Facebook page had a link to his own site, and I posted it there as a message to him. I had already contributed to his re-election campaign before this.

[EFerrari]

204. Great, thanks.

I'm not a big FB user either because it's too fussy. But it is convenient for the quick rec.

[pansypoo53219]

80. yeah yeah,, it was the lying. like clinton's impeachment wasn't the blow job.

the media is having fun with another penis. it's like jazz hands on steroids!

[PatrynXX]

81. Is Brightfart Gay??

Or would he be more horrified if any of the women sent in pussy's. Thought we learned from the knee jerks after Sherrod :( stupid stupid dems shooting their ass off..... doing it indiana jones style. line em up. bang. thru each buttock.

[mackerel]

85. What is it with so many here willing to defend a perv?

Don't these women get any consideration at all? I don't see any of them coming to his defense and thanking him for the dick pics.

And when is it o.k. to post your dick on twitter? It's the same as exposing yourself publicly.

It sadly speaks volumes about the American male politician and party bias.

[whathehell]

88. Yup....I don't know if I'd call him a "perv", but the phrase "conduct unbecoming" does

come to mind.:eyes:

As to your question, I'd say "no"...Consideration for women is mostly an afterthought on this site.

In fact I'm getting the feeling that the REAL complaint here is the supposed "puritanism"

that proposes a restriction on ANY male sexual behavior, if it's "legal", however public, vulgar, or inappropriate.

And yes, I agree...I think it does speak volumes about male privilege and party bias on this board.

[EFerrari]

90. Have any of them complained?

Do we know their reaction to those pix? If they sent one in exchange?

I'm sorry, mackerel but there doesn't seem to be any there there.

[eilen]

95. I think if these women did not want to see his pics

they would just "unfolllow" him.

[Harriety]

91. I agree. I also thought of that last thing. I have nice elbows maybe I'll put a pic of them on there

[Hubert Flottz]

93. Nancy Pelosi should investigate herself...

For taking the impeachment of unrepentant war criminals off the fucking table and sweeping it under the rug.

[robcon]

96. It's not a sex scandal. IT'S A LYING SCANDAL.

n/t

[JoePhilly]

100. Lying about a behavior we on the left always claim is none of our business.

Its like our own little version of DADT.

We claim we don't care about the sex life of public officials, that it's PRIVATE ... but we don't really mean that.

[Bluenorthwest]

131. The DNC claims that sexuality is a public issue. God is in the mix.

So they in the Obama administration and at DNC most certainly do not claim sexuality is none of our business. What a pantload! The President claims it is God's business and his own. He says 'one man, one woman' and claims straight marrieds have a 'spiritual element' that gay people do not have. Tell me, JP, if a person thinks sexuality is no one's business, why would that person proclaim superiority for their sexual type, and also insist that those of other sexuality not share rights equal to their own kind? How is that 'always claiming it is none of our business'? Frankly, the OFA seems to think that Gay is their business, God's business, they dragged out McClurkin of the Ex Gays to call us names in public regarding what? Sexuality.
So how cloyingly self serving is it, really, to suddenly, after years of excusing verbal attacks on sexual minorities, after years of not joining us when we complained about the preachers, about Rick Warren, to suddenly claim that 'we' always maintain that sexuality is a private issue. What a lie, just a lie.
It's just one song, one two minute prayer, you will get your ponies, stop the poutrage. Sound familiar? It should.
Yes, when speaking of teh gay, OFA/DNC speaks like a Prayer Breakfast keynote, then when some straight man gets in hot water, they suddenly claim to be Woodstock Nation, accepting of all, tolerant, and of course, never making an issue about sexuality!
Surprised there are not more broken necks on DU, from all the sudden snapping to the left on sexual issues.

[defendandprotect]

175. We have to care about sexual behavior because it can be damaging -- think Clarence Thomas ...

there are lines to be drawn --

especially when on or more of those political fans of Weiner say that

his sexual comments and pics were unsolicited.

We do have to grow up on sexual issues -- but there will always be lines to be drawn.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JJW]

98. Pelosi the clown

She wants to investigate this dick photo? After having taken investigating war crimes and crimes against humanity off the table. Even Bill Clinton got a BJ and his perjury wasn't even impeachable because it didn't rise to the level of high crimes.

Pelosi lied to the American public in 2006, saying if you give Democrats majority in both House they will stop funding Bush Wars. How about we investigate Obama's secret meeting with Health Insurance Industry, Big Pharma, and Major Hospitals. How about we get to the bottom of why the public option that 80 some percent of the people wanted, wasn't allowed on the table.

[mother earth]

103. Right on! The media is an unashamed whore and the weiner

story is their fixation right now. Who cares that people are in the streets in Spain, or torture and death are ravaging in Syria, or we're spending futily on Afghanistan and Iraq while our own struggle to survive...there's a weiner story. Let that couple be to work out their issues, esp. for the sake of their child.

[Faith No More]

105. I expect leaders, entrusted by the people

should have enough brains to realize if they do something like this, they're going to get caught. He stood up on national TV and lied about it as well which makes him doubly stupid and dishonest in my eyes. The fact that we let our elected officials do shit like this and let them get away with it is why our government is in the shape its in now. Our leaders should be held to a higher standard and if they ca't live up to it, let them find other work in the "private sector." This asshole is a cheat and a liar and needs to be out on his ass.

[robcon]

110. Sullivan is dead wrong.

He wrote: "The key thing here is that we have dispensed with even the pretense of any over-arching justification for this attack on Weiner."

The 'over-arching justification' is the repeated lies and false accusations by Weiner.

[JJW]

115. When it comes the sex ....

everyone always tells the truth, all the time... lol. Just ask President Bill Clinton who wasn't impeached even though he committed perjury. Why wasn't he impeached? Because it wasn't a high crime. It wasn't an impeachable offense to the nation.

[robcon]

117. So, you agree that the only justification is the lies?

I haven't heard anyone claim he committed a crime either. Just horrible judgement, and especially serial lies and false accusations.

Weiner has to go, IMO.

[mistertrickster]

130. Technically, he WAS impeached . . . he wasn't convicted however.

I understand your point however.

[midnight]

114. Amen....

[oldbanjo]

116. On MSNBC last night someone said that all people

that are wanted Weiner to resign should have to have their computer hard drives checked for the same kind of things. I bet a lot of make believe Christians would have a problem both Republican and Democrat.

[obxhead]

118. I had no idea they jailed Wiener without bail.

The claim he's being treated like DSK is over the top.

[RufusTFirefly]

128. Meanwhile, lost in the shuffle: GINNI THOMAS

Clarence Thomas has a gigantic conflict of interest -- and he has also revealed himself (once again) to be a great big liar. And Weiner called him on it.

That's why this is a scandal.

Once again, the Bread and Circuses have triumphed.

[renate]

138. exactly!

:thumbsup:

[BeliQueen]

133. I think his wife complained, and she's the most important someone...

that he corresponds with.

[Safetykitten]

148. Well if anyone should know about internets and the sex, he would be the one.

[kestrel91316]

153. Yep.

[Evoman]

156. The sex? Whatever, The lies? Meh, The mind boggling stupidity? Relevant.

I'm not saying he should resign, and I definitely think the "news" needs to get to covering more important shit.

But I'm sort of glad he was made an example of. Because the fucking stupidity of these "leaders" needs to be pointed out. Yeah, it was just some nudie shots this time, but the ignorance of the internet by people privey to confidential information is horrifying. Although, at least Weiner knows what the internet IS, unlike a lot of the other fucking dinosaurs in power.

[ColesCountyDem]

169. It misses the point, even though every word he wote is true.

Weiner's continued presence endangers ALL Democrats in the House, and that is something no one member has the right to do.

[defendandprotect]

177. Exactly -- it's a continuing embarrassment --

and we don't need rw corporate media to make that clear --

Yes, we have to grow up on sexual issues -- but this isn't the way to do it!

[glinda]

179. Easily stopped if each Dem asks why Repubs who committed crimes have not stepped down. Keep naming

names every time they get on the media.

[bongbong]

181. Duh

Weiner's IQ is top-notch. He's not stupid at all.

Weiner's EQ is not quite so good. He's pretty average among men in that regard.

[avebury]

184. K&R

[SemperEadem]

190. my sentiments exactly

this overwrought puritanism going hard in the paint.

[WinkyDink]

193. Andrew has posted some graphic bits about himself, so I'd figure this was his take.

[DRoseDARs]

195. Nancy "Impeachment is off the table" Pelosi, your ethics investigation is invalid.

Pancake on a bunny, Pelosi, pancake on a bunny.

[Matariki]

206. It's not just "partisan hatred" - just read down the subject lines here the past week.

There have been plenty here only too happy to get their gossip and moral indignation on with the most absurd justifications.

[Zax2me]

215. He doesn't mention the underage girls here

He needs to update his 'common sense'