Georgia says NO to immigrants—Migrant farm workers say NO to Georgia

[sunnystarr]

After enacting House Bill 87, a law designed to drive illegal immigrants out of Georgia, state officials appear shocked to discover that HB 87 is, well, driving a lot of illegal immigrants out of Georgia.

It might be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

Thanks to the resulting labor shortage, Georgia farmers have been forced to leave millions of dollars’ worth of blueberries, onions, melons and other crops unharvested and rotting in the fields. It has also put state officials into something of a panic at the damage they’ve done to Georgia’s largest industry.

Barely a month ago, you might recall, Gov. Nathan Deal welcomed the TV cameras into his office as he proudly signed HB 87 into law. Two weeks later, with farmers howling, a scrambling Deal ordered a hasty investigation into the impact of the law he had just signed, as if all this had come as quite a surprise to him.

And you know, here's where the chickens really come home to roost. Politicians act as if undocumented immigrants contribute nothing to the nation's economy, when the truth is, they do damned hard and dirty work that Americans consider beneath them:


The first batch of probationers started work last week at a farm owned by Dick Minor, president of the Georgia Fruit and Vegetable Growers Association. In the coming days, more farmers could join the program.

So far, the experiment at Minor's farm is yielding mixed results. On the first two days, all the probationers quit by mid-afternoon, said Mendez, one of two crew leaders at Minor's farm.

"Those guys out here weren't out there 30 minutes and they got the bucket and just threw them in the air and say, `Bonk this, I ain't with this, I can't do this,'" said Jermond Powell, a 33-year-old probationer. "They just left, took off across the field walking."


...more
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/anti-immigrant-showboating-politician

[KamaAina]

1. Georgia consumers say YUCK! to overpriced, less fresh out-of-state produce

:puke:

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sufrommich]

2. So where are all those bootstrappy people who wanted

those jobs?

[littlewolf]

5. they won't work for what the farmers wanted to pay ... nt

[napi21]

8. Unemployment is high in Ga. 9.6% last I checked, but nobody seems to want the jobs in the fields.

I can't say that I blame them. It's finally cooled off today (Down to 89 dgs.) but it's been in the high 90's for the past 6+ weeks and I live north of Atlanta. I'm sure it's much hotter to the south, and I know I would literally die if I tried to stay in the middle of a field somewhere, in the bakeing heat, all day.

[sufrommich]

13. Yeah, I would too. Although I feel the same way when I see

roofers doing their jobs in the middle of summer.That would kill me.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

17. It's not because it's grueling or low-paying.

It's because it's all of that and TEMPORARY.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. I might add, since that was the kind of work

that existed in the summer oh in the 19th century. We are no longer a farm based economy.

Lemme see, work for nine bucks an hour picking grapes in the fields, or work for nine bucks an hour in a service center... Both pay lousy...but one is in the shade, if you get my meaning. Most city dwellers, no, not just Americans, have no clue of how back breaking farm work is.

[RebelOne]

56. Right on. I have been unemployed since 2010.

I am not looking for a job since I am collecting Social Security. Even if I was looking for a job, I sure as hell wouldn't work in fields under the hot sun, mainly because I am 72 years old and I would definitely die in the heat. I also live north of Atlanta (actually northwest in Woodstock) and the rains yesterday brought temporary relief from the heat. But the heat is back.

[WatsonT]

60. When the benefits to not working are greater than those for working

then people won't work.

I have no issue helping those who can't find work or are unable.

I do have an issue with helping those who can find work and are able but would prefer not to.

[napi21]

3. What's really sad is that the crops will rot in the fields.

Vadalia onions, tomatoes, and all the other things popularly grown in ga. I disliked Nathan Deal when he was my Rep. in Wash. and he's shown himself to be worse as a governor!

[RebelOne]

55. They already are, according to our local news here in North Georgia. n't

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. So let me get this

Middle Class American are NOT rushing to do back breaking work for less than minimum in horrible conditions?

That is why we get cheap food people...

Governor unintended consequences, teaching spoiled brats where their cheap food comes from... and yes we are spoiled... in many ways.

I got an idea, maybe kids out of school for the summer break can do what they used to do in the way back machine...

(And yes I have done farm work, I know what I speak off)

I wonder though if farmers will now vote these people out of office after collapsing crops and costing them a LOT of money.

[littlewolf]

6. having grown up on a dairy farm ... I know of what you

speak of also .... don't think there will be a mad rush .... the wages will have to go way up .... and of course food prices will go up to
match the wages ....

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Yep, way up to at least 25\hour

and no farmer wants to pay that much... and no city dweller wants to pay those prices either.

[customerserviceguy]

14. And when food prices go up

It will become more cost effective when somebody invents harvesting 'robots' that are not illegal aliens. Cheap illegal labor just pushes forward the day when we'll have machines doing the hard dirty work in the fields that we already have them doing in the factories.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Harvesters already exist

there are certain crops (strawberries come to mind) that are still too delicate for harvesters.

But things like corn and wheat have not been harvested by human hands in a while.

Nuts... harvesters

Apples, harvesters...

We are already there in many ways... unless you are a subsistence farmer in the third world where still you and your neighbors get together during harvest time to gather everybody's harvest and thresh the harvest and all that.

This is why we call it factory farming... it is not coming, it is here. And once they figure out how to deal with pesky things like oh strawberries...

[customerserviceguy]

19. And those sorts of harvesting machines are the pioneers of the future

Clearly, it takes less delicacy to harvest a nut or an apple than it does a berry or a root vegetable. Cheap illegal labor just makes it more economically difficult to develop and sell a machine designed to do these operations. But the twin forces of technology and law will make it possible to do away with stoop labor that has costs beyond what some cheap-ass farmer is willing to pay.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. They are also incredibly energy dependent

peak oil will bring a lot of our industrial farming to an end..

The consequences of that are not something I like to contemplate often, but a population collapse comes to mind...

Yes they could be solar driven... but the whole of our industrial agriculture relies on cheap energy... and that is coming to an end... alas that is another discussion.

As to berries, they have been trying for over two generations... the closest they have come so far are orange harvesters, which are delicate but nothing like oh berries.

[customerserviceguy]

22. When solar power is perfected

it will be a globe-changing event. It's just a matter of improvement in robotics, that's all. Illegal immigrant labor is stifling that improvement.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Illegal immigrant labor is not stifling that

the oil industry is.

They are also stifling a few other things...

[customerserviceguy]

31. Someday

oil will not be quite as cheap as it is today. Yes, subsidizing oil companies with tax breaks is counterproductive, but eventually, this too will pass.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. We are already there

in the US we still heavily subsidize it, but not in other places. Of course OTHER places get it why we need to move away from oil... here not so much. It is the power of the industry.

[customerserviceguy]

36. Then they will manufacture the technology

that goes to work in our farms and fields when our oil prices finally get to be too much.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. They are... abroad

not here.

See how much solar is now running in oh Germany...

We used to make things, not anymore.

As to solar Belgium is playing with a solar driven mass transit train. We used to do that...

The US is a has been empire, and right now the only ones who are working on green technology in a serious manner is DOD, for solid strategic reasons mind you.

We will again, but only AFTER the Empire retrenches and at least a generation of pain.

[customerserviceguy]

38. Agreed. n/t

[A HERETIC I AM]

51. Here's a picture of one of those Orange Harvesting machines. Pretty cool looking;

Sorry Nadin, but the industry here in Florida at least, still uses manual labor to harvest oranges. They have yet to devise a machine that can do the job and not strip off the leaves or otherwise damage the trees.

In other words, there are no orange harvesting machines.

[bluestate10]

68. Advanced machines can be produced that will pick berries and other

delicate produce. But when they are, say goodbye to small family farms. Those picking machines won't be cheap and will cost money that is well out of the reach of anything but large agribusiness concerns.

[pinto]

21. Yeah don't see strawberries being harvested mechanically any time soon, if ever.

I live in strawberry country - back breaking work from what workers tell me and what you see out in the fields. Locally, the pay is pretty good - it's not by the hour, but by the quantity picked. So if you're able to really book, the income can be good. Yet incredibly back breaking work to get a good payday.

Suppose some geneticist may come up with a strawberry that ripens a good bearing of fruit all at once, can be pulled whole and picked on tables while the fields are replanted, or inter-planted....

[customerserviceguy]

23. They're a severe challenge

But eventually, the stoop labor that used to exist in factories will be replaced by machines when cheaper alternatives are simply not available.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Mind you they have been trying for decades

the only reason why they might be able to develop them is... eggs... delicate as hell, most of that has been automated. I prefer free range eggs, they do taste different, than battery ...

And yes strawberry picking IS back breaking...

[bluestate10]

69. I don't agree. Machines with lasers and sensors can pick strawberries.

But expect those machines to be expensive. Their maintenance alone will require advanced skills that will warrant high hourly pay. When the machines come about, small farms will vanish, replaced by large agri-business concerns that can afford purchase of the machines and employment of maintenance technicians.

[Shagbark Hickory]

45. So be it.

Time for this form of slavery to end.

[WatsonT]

61. Having discussed this issue with many others on here I have come to the conclusion that

for 90% of white people working outside is an immediate death sentence.

It's fine for brown people, hence the use of illegal labor. However should we attempt to put white folks in those jobs they will immediately die from heat stroke.

This is just going on what I've been told about manual/outside labor on here by people who consider stepping outside to pay their gardener to mow the lawn to be manual labor.

[jpak]

70. How' Bout Them Dawgs!@!!!! Dumbasses

:rofl:

[FLPanhandle]

7. Good.

Now the companies that hire farm workers can start paying enough to make it worthwhile.

This "Americans won't do the job" is just right wing B.S. Americans did all those "dirty" jobs for generations, when they got paid enough to do it.

Those companies just want cheap labor and don't want to pay a decent days pay for a days work.

[bluestateguy]

9. The plantation owners could raise wages to a living wage level

then I'm sure people would come out of the woodwork to pick those crops.

[napi21]

12. Rachel (I think) said they were paid $9.00/hr. IF that's true, and

I know Rachel does her homework, so I suspect it is, that's not a horrible rate for someone who has little to no education to do anything else.

[Leftist Agitator]

15. You try living on $9 / hr and tell me it's "not a horrible rate"...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

24. Worse -- TEMP job. They can't count on that to make a living.

If it was 40 hrs/wk all year round, it would amount to something around 17,000 -- 18,000 /year. Crap wage, yes, but people live on that. Kinda. Sorta.

But no, it isn't a real, actual job.

[napi21]

29. You just asked the wrong person. I AM, right now, living on that very

amount. I'm retired and living on SS. If you multiply $9/hr X 160 hours (4 40/hr. weeks in a mo.) and that's actually $5.00 less hat a wage of $9.00/hr.

[hfojvt]

47. well the worker has to pay $110 in FICA taxes and maybe some state taxes too

and in that job, there's probably expenses for sunscreen and mosquito spray and hats - at least there should be.

[demosincebirth]

16. That wouldn't buy one breakfast in many places.

[napi21]

30. See my pos above. I live on that amount and I live in Ga.

I don't have money to throw around on useless things, and rarely eat out for breakfast or any other meal, but I'm doing fine.

[hobbit709]

33. But you're not busting your back in stoop labor either.

would you work for that if it meant bent over all day in the sun?

[napi21]

59. I said in my original post that the heat would kill me! NO! I couldn't nor wouldn't

do the job, but that wasn't the point of discussion. The point was being able to live on that wage.

[demosincebirth]

40. I'm happy for you and glad you can live on that amount.

[WatsonT]

62. You can't buy breakfast for 72 bucks?

9 dollars x 8 hours per day.

Where is this horrible place?

[hollowdweller]

25. We don't value the physical conditioning needed to do farm work.

We pay somebody 10 bucks and hour to be a telemarketer or call center person but somebody who is harvesting our food and working twice as hard we give them 9 bucks an hour.

I call bullshit on that.

[WatsonT]

63. I think it would be beneficial if we were to go back to believing

that manual labor is acceptable, even for white folks.

/yeah a lot of the horror at the loss of illegal laborers seems to stem from people not finding it seemly for white people to do these jobs.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

41. Would you rather make $9 for an hour of going "would you like fries with that"

Or for an hour of backbreaking work in 100 degree temperatures?

It's not a fair wage for the labor and working conditions.

[Shagbark Hickory]

43. Not even close. And don't forget a lot of times they have to pay a portion to the people that

helped get them over the border or got them the job.

[Shagbark Hickory]

44. $9 a day, maybe. A DAY. nt

[mainer]

49. On Maine farms, their pay goes up with productivity

The more baskets they rake, the more they get paid.

[bluestate10]

71. I prefer profit sharing. Start with a $9/hr wage, but pay teams part of

the profit from a bountiful harvest. Farmers that gravitate to that model should survive and buy up the land of those that stay with outdated methods and don't survive.

[demosincebirth]

10. Some politician's common sense is trumped by their prejudices

[Politicalboi]

32. They should offer the unemployed to work

But still have the unemployed get their benefits if they help the crops.

[Zoeisright]

39. Oh good god. Did you READ the OP?

That is backbreaking, dangerous work. And if you're not conditioned to working that hard, outside in that type of heat, you can DIE. Tying unemployment insurance to hard physical labor is disgusting.

[WatsonT]

65. Ours is such a fragile species

we evolved to live in airconditioned cubicles. Only venturing outside to cross the barren landscapes of walmart parking lots.

Who built those walmarts is a mystery because obviously the work would have been outside and un-air conditioned, hence fatal.

Legends speak of the ancients, those hardy ancestors of ours now long gone who could briefly venture outdoors (at night and during fair weather of course) and perform brief spurts of manual labor (with their hands!).

It's even rumored that some of them produced sweat in the process!

Or course those are just legends.

[Selatius]

66. There's a lot of construction workers who could use some jobs around here.

I live in the footprint of hurricane Katrina. Since the recession, a lot of construction workers trying to rebuild the shattered coast-line have been put to pasture, and they're still looking for work or working dead-end odd-jobs until the money starts flowing again. They work in this type of environment. They could easily do farm work if they work in a construction yard.

[astral]

34. Let everybody in. Let there be no "citizenship."

If there were no "citizenship" then the illegal I mean undocumented immigrants wouldn't have to work for less than American citizens. Then American citizens wouldn't be able to discriminate against anyone. Then there will be no minimum wage for anyone. Let's all be one human race under the sun equality for all and special benefits to NOBODY.

What's right, what's wrong? Let's not talk out of both sides of our mouth about this, we either let down the borders or we keep the borders. If people coming illegally get a better deal than those trying to get in legally, what's the point of having borders at all? They are politically incorrect now, at least in THIS country.

Some day soon, immigrants won't be running over the border, applying to cross the border, sneaking across the border or anything. You know why? Because it will be NO BETTER ON THIS SIDE OF THE BORDER THAN ON THAT SIDE.

Oh, yes, that's the North American Union. Coming soon to a continent near you.

I said S-O-O-N.

[ThomWV]

42. Blueberries?

Blueberries?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1355557

[DainBramaged]

46. Jump you fuckers

[mainer]

48. My son tried blueberry raking. He lasted two days.

He gained an appreciation for the backbreaking work that immigrants do. In this case, the Mexican immigrants were paid by the basket full, so the more productive they were, the more they got paid. They were fast, efficient, and probably earned three times what my son did that first day.

[Bigmack]

50. One thing that folks here missed...

..I think. Lots of that grunt labor is actually skilled labor. Most farmers aren't interested in having inexperienced people pick asparagus or harvest fruit, because they could hurt the fruiting spurs and roots that mean next year's crop. Pruning berry canes and trees is another example of what I'm talking about.

And then there's the time factor. Lots of crops ripen at once and need to be harvested NOW, and having a gang of newbies diddling around in the field/orchard.... even if you pay them well... just doesn't get the job done in a timely fashion.

We've been damn lucky that the immigrants need the money... otherwise we'd be eating a pretty dull diet.

[mainer]

54. A very good point. It takes skill and speed to harvest crops.

Paying by the hour means you'll get some workers sitting on their butts while the hard workers do it all.

Paying rates by the bushel ensures that the crops are harvested quickly.

[bluestate10]

73. The solution requires some sacrifice by all involved groups, except immigrants.

Immigrants must have better working conditions and more pay for dangerous work.
Farmers must accept a little less profit.
Consumers must accept paying a little more for safe fruit and produce.

[kath]

52. If they paid a semi-decent wage, teens and college students would do the work.

Like they used to back in the 60s & 70s.

[Erose999]

57. People aren't physically conditioned to do that type of work anymore in the age of I-phones and

air conditioning. Not to mention paying a "decent wage" would cause the price of food to rise - a lot.

[bluestate10]

74. I worked fruit groves and vegetable fields during the summers when I

grew up. My parents footed living expenses, so the money that I earned was directed toward buying school supplies and clothing. But teens and college students could not make work with the wages that I accepted, expenses for them have gone up and many of their parents are unemployed.

[kath]

76. Do you remember what you were paid? More than min, wage?

How long ago was this? An old bf who lived in WA & his friends used to pick cherries or apples and/or work where the fruit was graded and sorted. Paid pretty well, from what he said.

[Erose999]

53. They're going to use convict labor now. They already have prisoners working the onion fields.

Fuck those racist shitbags like Nathan Deal and our general assembly.

[kevinbgoode]

58. So why isn't the governor out there picking?

. . .and the state assembly? Seems to me they should be setting an example - or at least making some big public display of praying-the-problem-away on the statehouse steps.

Can't the young Republican clubs get out there and do some real work?

[RandomKoolzip]

64. Tell you what, Georgia farmers: you pay me a living wage and I'll move there and work on your farm.

Oh wait - you want me to do it for less money than I'd get working at Applebee's? Fuck it then.

See, it's not that this kind of work is "beneath" us; it's that it doesn't pay a living wage.

[cottonseed]

72. How do you get paid a "living wage" that's for a 3 week job?

[bluestate10]

75. All the more reason why sane immigration reform and a immigrant work visa

program need legislative attention. Most immigrants that come to the US to work the fields don't want to live in the US full time, but do want to follow the harvest seasons. Work visas that allow immigrants to come, work, go home, and come back for new seasonal work works to everyone's benefit. And on top of the visa, field workers must be paid more for their labor.