He tried to destroy Social Security and Medicare, and those darn Rethugs just wouldn't let him.

[kpete]

No Dice On Grand Bargain. Boehner Counts The Votes For Tax Increases And Comes Up Short. Stay Tuned!
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/no-dice-grand-bargain-boehner-counts

........................

The details of a smaller deficit reduction deal have yet to be worked out, but the collapse of the grand bargain leaves President Obama in a more favorable political position. If both parties agree to cut $2 trillion from the budget with minor tax increases, he’ll notch a bipartisan accomplishment. But he can also say he tried something more ambitious in putting cuts to Social Security and Medicare on the table without facing the political fallout of actually slashing those programs. He went big and congressional Republicans — not to mention the noticeably silent 2012 Republican presidential candidates — didn’t. It will be Republicans who will have to justify bowing to the extreme wing of their party and walking away from a deal that included some ten times more spending cuts than revenue increases. Some things just aren’t too big to fail.


http://swampland.time.com/2011/07/10/no-grand-bargain-boehner-walks-away-from-big-deficit-deal/

[still_one]

1. The problem is that the administration has never communicated effectively what they were doing with

Social Security and Medicare in relation to the deficit reduction talks

This has left people confused.

A similar thing happened during HCR, people did not have a good understanding where the administration stood

[high density]

7. They send me emails so often begging for money, or saying Happy 4th

But they're quite poor at explaining WTF they are doing.

[Palmer Eldritch]

11. The only reason anyone is confused is because they were in such a rush to believe Obama was caving.

So they ran around telling everybody that the sky was falling.

[EFerrari]

15. No, the reason people are confused is because the WH failed to message properly. n/t

[still_one]

17. and why is the administration allowing raising the debt limit be tied to deficit cutting. That was

never done before

Is the administration setting the agenda or the rethugs?

[phleshdef]

18. There has never been anything stopping any party from doing the same thing whenever a debt ceiling..

...has been in effect. The difference is that the tea bagger takeover Republicans chose to use a power that other Congresses before it were not interested in using. It has nothing to do with "allowing" anything. The Whitehouse nor anyone else has the power to disallow a partisan Congressional majority from entirely acting on its own agenda. The law allows this Congress the freedom to tie the 2 together. Just because its dirty doesn't mean its illegal.

[still_one]

19. No, they can stand firm that they are two different issues. Why cave in to the repukes demands?

[phleshdef]

21. They can't stand firm all fucking day. That doesn't disallow Republicans from tying the 2 together.

That was your original complaint. You complained that they are "allowing" the Republicans to tie the 2 together. Whether they stand firm or whatever other empty moves of political bravado you suggest is neither here nor there. If the Republican controlled Congress FEELS LIKE tying the 2 issues together, it can, and there isn't a god damn thing anyone can do to stop them from doing so. The President could ignore them, claim the 14th amendment and go on paying our bills anyway. They still will have not actually raised the debt ceiling and can still refuse to do so until cuts are made. Thats not to say that they win that way, as Obama would just be ignoring them. But they are still doing exactly what they feel like doing.

[still_one]

22. Yes they can. If the house want to tie both together, the Senate does NOT have to accept that. Call

their funcking hand, and if the deadline comes, then exercise the 14th ammendment. Let the pukes try to impeach him. The Senate will NOT convict.

Let them take it to the Supreme Court. I would be very surprised if the federalist society judges, would overrule the 14th ammendment

It is way past due for the Democrats to grow a spine.

and while they are at it, perhaps they can remind the pukes and the country that the debt limit was increased quite a few times under reagan without any attachments

[phleshdef]

23. Can't was a typo on my part. I meant "can",

[still_one]

24. ok. Just trying to understand each others points, thanks /nt

[still_one]

16. No, that is not the case. When Kennedy, LBJ were president you knew exactly where they were coming

From, no mixed messages. Even bush two, you knew where he stood

Everything is so nuanced it is pathetic

Frankly, I think they want it that way or else they would hold more press conferences

It is ambiguous because they don't communicate

Take the current example, is The administration for or against using social security and Medicare as bargaining chips for the defecit, and while we are at it WHY are they allowing the deficit to be tied to raising the debt limit? This was not done before. What kind of leadership is that?

Effectively the republicans are setting the rules and that is garbage

[theFrankFactor]

2. Again With the 3D Chess Thing?

This isn't a victory for eleventy-dimensional chess, because no matter what, we still have a Democratic president offering Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid cuts and validating the right-wing view of the universe, and we're still talking about spending cuts during a prolonged recession -- as if they'll help.

First of all this President might mention that Social Security is NOT A FUCKING ENTITLEMENT and is in no way worth FUCKING WITH in reality!

[KittyWampus]

12. In other words, you have your prejudice and you'll stick with it.

[Major Hogwash]

25. That's about all they got after they looked at it more closely.

They ate all the carmel-covered popcorn, peanuts, and as it turns out, the prize, too.

LoL

[theFrankFactor]

3. The Best Way to Stand Your Ground is to Give it Away?

Yeah, okay. I guess when one looks at Obama and the Democratic Congress' history we can see how this fits right in. They have done nothing but stand firm and send the message that American's voted for change and the People and the Constitution come before corporate power!

That second term will be the clincher, you watch!

[flamingdem]

4. UNREC for misleading headline drawn from limited knowledge of strategy on this nt

[kpete]

6. ok

so i should lay off the snark when i am in a bad mood?

peace, kpete

[bananas]

9. Is "he" Boehner or Obama?

I recced, but still 0.
More snark! More snark!

[flamingdem]

13. I think I misread, too early it was no coffee is my excuse nt

[Jim Lane]

5. Even a smaller deal will make at least some progress toward throttling the recovery.

Boehner is making a correct decision by taking whatever he can get. His agenda is not to eliminate the debt or even to reduce it. His agenda is to protect the rich and give the 2012 Republican nominee the tail wind of a stagnant economy.

Obama apparently plans to campaign on the theme that "Yeah, the economy stinks, but the deficit during my administration isn't quite as high as it might have been! Am I not a magnificent leader?"

So, at this point, I'd say Boehner is winning.

[OHdem10]

8. You may be right but it might be hard to put lipstick on that pig.

Since the party was using Medicare and SS as their weapon
against Republicans and Ryan Plan, the Republicans can
run ADs showing Obama saying Medicare and SS is on the
table.

Good thing the Dems in Senate and House took a stand against
Obama before Boehner dropped out. At least they can
say they stood strong.

Just another perspective. You are correct from the Democratic
perspective--still what will those GOPers do???

[Renew Deal]

10. "Republicans can run ads of Obama saying SS and Medicare is on the table?"

Please post a video of Obama saying that. ;)

[TheKentuckian]

14. I see no reason the "prize" of demonstrating TeaPubliKlan intransigence (something they actively

brag about) is worth legitimizing the underlying principles the TeaPubliKlans represent, whether they are too stupid to accept it or not.

Especially when your SOP is to still incorporate their crazy ideas anyway and own full responsibility for the downside.

Now even the "Marxist" acknowledges the need for substantial cuts and reigning in of entitlements but is unwilling to get serious about it while holding on to the idea of raising taxes during a downturn on job creators, will be their spiel as it always has been and those stupid enough to believe it despite all evidence right up in their faces will keep right on eating up the folksy horseshit and simple sounding answers.

Going all in with ten grand when you can only win a couple of bucks is fucking stupid.

[Major Hogwash]

20. And Boehner tweeted this week, too!!!

"I luv you, President Obama. Don't spank me so hard in public"

Ha ha ha ha ha!!