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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-11 09:40 PM
Original message
2012 & 2016: Presidential Ambitions



“Let no one, he said in his most eloquent passage, be discouraged by 'the belief that there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world's ills – against misery and ignorance, injustice and violence …. Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation.

“ 'It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against an injustice, he sends a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance'.”
Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.; Robert Kennedy and His Times; 1978; page 803.

One of the more contentious topics on the Democratic Underground has to do with the level of approval and support for President Barack Obama, as we enter the 2012 presidential election season. One group of people are generally satisfied with the President's performance, and are fully supporting his re-election bid. Another group is unsatisfied, and view the democrats and republicans in Washington, DC, as puppets of corporations, who are gaming the American public; hence, they have less enthusiasm about the 2012 election. And there are, of course, many other people who hold a range of opinions spanning the two extremes.

In my opinion, the 2008 presidential election created a great excitement, which produced a powerful energy force in America. People wanted change from the horrors of the Bush-Cheney years, and the candidate Barack Obama appeared – to many, many people – as offering the potential to institute meaningful change.

After the November, '08 election, far too many people assumed that their part was done. That they could sit back, and watch President Obama bring back the traditional democratic values in the wasteland of Washington. And while people can debate if President Obama would have provided the vehicle to meaningful change had the American public remained fully engaged, one thing is beyond question: way, way too many people sat back. The vast majority of the change that night have happened, had the public remained active participants demanding it, disappeared into the vacuum created by the ceasing of that powerful force's movement. The void is the realm that allows corporations and a crooked congress to destabilize our Constitutional democracy.

Because of the baggage associated with too many discussions of the upcoming 2012 election, however, I would like to talk about a situation involving another presidential election. The political landscape is such that, rather than arguing about if President Obama should or should not have faced a primary challenge, that it is worth understanding that already, there are people looking forward to 2016.

Although the news media's primary focus at this time is to confuse and mislead the public about issues and candidates for 2012, the operatives from political machines are gearing for the next election. One such politician is New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo. He has a strong combination of experience and family connections. He recently was on the national stage as an advocate of marriage equality. And he still enjoys access to the political support of his former in-laws. And although this cannot provide the credentials that candidate Barack Obama got when Carolyn and Senator Ted Kennedy endorsed him, Andrew Cuomo does plan to do what so many party members hoped his father would do: run for president.

Currently, Governor Cuomo is struggling with the issue of hydro-fracking. He is aware that in 2009, the NYS legislature received more letters and calls from citizens demanding a halt to fracking, than on any other issue in the history of the state.

He is also aware that in 2005, Halliburton attorneys closely connected to VP Dick Cheney traveled to Albany, NY, where they lobbied, pressured, and bribed state officials – who then exempted gas companies from both the NYS DEC and US EPA environmental standards.

Yet Andrew Cuomo is hoping he can pretend to reach a “safe” compromise, where he can cuddle up to the energy corporations by allowing fracking in most of upstate, but keep it away from both the NYC watershed and the city of Syracuse. By no coincidence, his close friend and ex-brother-in-law Robert Kennedy, Jr., has agreed to serve on the DEC's advisory panel on “safe” fracking.

The most recent polls by independent sources indicate that less than 3% of NYS residents favor fracking. Because they are vocal – and well-financed by energy corporations – they receive at least equal coverage as the anti-fracking forces, when it comes to the corporate media. The majority of residents are opposed to fracking, while a sizable portion is still “unsure.”

Thus, what the anti-fracking community organizers and environmental activists in our state are doing is
bringing that large energy force back into action. We are letting Governor Cuomo know that not only are we strongly opposed to fracking, but that we are united with many other groups, environmental activists, and community organizers across the nation. If he refuses to take the correct stance on this issue, he can forget ANY chance of getting home-state traction for a 2016 run for president. More, the very people he needs across the country will reject his calls for support. Unless he wants to try running with Dick Cheney's endorsement, that is.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-11 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. The democrat to watch in 2016 is Kirsten Gillibrand. She is emerging
as a serious player in the democratic party. She is sane and smart, unlike Palin and Bachmann.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree. Gillibrand is smart, savvy, and has a lot of support from the activist base.
Markos Moulitsas tweeted the other day that he thinks she's going to be president one day.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. She is no more dependable than Cuomo
Edited on Sun Jul-17-11 11:44 AM by Tom Rinaldo
She can be an attractive candidate, certainly. Perhaps she can be a winning candidate. She would continue to serve as a Democrat in office, much like our current President does or Cuomo would. She would do little to upset the interests of the status Quo. We've gone down that road before; smart young articulate and attractive Democratic Presidents of the Tony Blair persuasion. If that's what you want Gillibrand might be your gal.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Do you do anything here other than trash Democrats? I'm curious.
Your version of "dependable" seems to dependably eliminate anyone who is actually good for the job.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I doubt you even believe what you just wrote (in your second sentance).
I did work for WeS Clark's campaign and was on board for him in 2008 if he ran again. I could also actively support Howard Dean or Russ Feingold. I might decide to work for someone like Sherrod Brown if he runs in 2016 - I would need to lok a little further into him but that is my current feeling. I would back Barbara Boxer, and I would be a suppoerter of Elizabeth Warren should she run for office (though starting out at the Presidential level is probably too much of a stretch). Bernie Sanders would be ideal.

None of those people are cookie cutter identical - I would not expect to agree with any of them on every issue. But all of them have shown me some real fire. All of them are people who I have watched fight for something they think is important for average Americans even when that involvoed sticking their head up in a firing range. They have shown me some independence from don't rock the boat or bite the hand that feeds you type thinking, and they have shown some spine. But they all have some savy also. They couold handle themselves in a back room when the time came to cut a dealo.

Have you ever seen me anywhere write anyting opposing voting for Obama in 2012? I never have. I also oppose any primary challange to him, and have stated that numerous times here. I never equate the Democratic PArty with the Republican Party, but I do believe that today's Democratic Party is in ideological retreat to Republicans and overly influenced in general by corporate money.

So what do you call Journal entries like this one, is it anti-Democratic? You tell me:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1464159
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. those aren't dems, those are pukes in dems clothing
centrists have sold us out.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. Morning DU e-mail!!!!
Did you see this yet? RFK Jrs new statement this morning
From: rosesaylavee
Date: Jul-17-11 01:35 PM
http://www.riverkeeper.org/blog/2011/07/13/robert-kenne... /

" I have changed my thinking and have asked members of the industry to stop using any statements I may have made in the past in support of natural gas. My position now is that I oppose moving forward with permitting of all new horizontal hydrofracking activities until more responsible leadership emerges within the industry, best practices are required by law, and state and federal regulatory agencies have the staff and resources to provide reliable oversight.”

Received link in email from Mary who works with RFK Jr.

YOU are a tide turner.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I love DU.
Thank you to all who helped me lobby Mary Beth, Robert's top aide/assistant.

I know that they were finding me annoying during the past six weeks. Maybe they wished that I would just shut up. But that is not an option.

"The Earth and myself are of One Mind." -- Chief Joseph
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Very cool!
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. Nice!
:thumbsup:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. There won't be much left to run on in 2016...and that we even care when
Edited on Sun Jul-17-11 07:23 PM by KoKo
so much is going on that needs to be addressed in 2012 is distressing.

Believe me...if we don't do something about 2012...we will have a wasteland in 2016 and it won't matter much who picks up the pieces because it will be a VERY different playing field than what the politico's and pundits are thinking these days.

A bit of "woo woo," but savvy people here like you...know we are at or close to the edge of the "Tipping Point."

On Edit: I don't think party loyalty or even party affiliation will be as much of a factor after 2012...because it will be much different as we realize that neither party fulfills what America is about or what we need as Americans to be able to do to survive going forward.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. Fuck getting Cuomo right, make an example of him. He's a first order of magnitude snake in the grass
that is all about the money.

Big name, big state, big example.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I have many,
many friends saying exactly that -- and many, many more associates saying exactly the same.
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. Fracking is important but it wouldn't be enough to salvage Cuomo in my eyes
What do we say about a governor who wins a landslide victory, who has a lot of leeway to pursue his vision for the state, and who pursues a largely right-wing vision on economic matters, while throwing the left a bone or two on other issues (marriage equality and, perhaps, fracking)?

We say that such a person, even if nominally a Democrat, is just more of the same. If he were elected we would spend four or eight years here relentlessly criticizing him -- and with good reason.

The last thing we need in 2016 is yet another candidate who will get people hoping for significant change but will then let them down.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Thank you.
I'm glad that you and TheKentuckian have focused on the actual meaning of the OP, rather than adding some distraction -- purposeful or not -- about "so-n-so" who "just might be a good future candidate." The simple fact is that Andrew Cuomo IS working on a 2016 run. He DOES have a political machine gearing up. And his approach to fracking appears to be based ENTIRELY on which way the winds may blow in 2016.

When any politician does the "correct thing' not because of his/her own internal compass, but because of the potential political advantage to be accrued, it means that the Goodness of the Truth has not taken root in them. And that is the way that many of us evaluate politicians.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. Tweety Asked His Panel This Morning Which Con Candidate Has The Best Chance To Win
Joe Klein said Obama. If Cuomo wants to be the dem candidate he needs to be more than republicon lite He will have to stick to Dem principle like he did with the marriage issue where his strategy was great.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. actually that isn't what Tweety asked
he asked who among the current GOP crowd had the chance to be a great GOP president to which Klein said Obama.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. You Are Right....Memory Lapse
But my point about dems leaning too far right stands
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Andrew Cuomo
is a curious fellow. I liked his father. But I've got a different feeling about this son. I may have told you about when he was running for governor in this state, I had an invitation to be one of seven people dining with him. I turned down the offer. That was a mistake on my part. Just laziness, lack of interest.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. The Problem With Andrew For Me
Is that I don't know who he is and this worries me.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. K&R for hard work and strategic thinking on a very important issue. n/t
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. You speak for me, too.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. Thank you.
I think one of the reasons that both major party's operatives, including those in the media, try to convince us that the environment isn't a high priority issue with the American public is because they know it could exclude the comfortable corporate lap dogs.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Rec'd. I think the most important thing we can do is to let the "professional politicians" know that
we are watching, that we know what the game is, and that we have no intention of being dazzled with bullshit.

sw
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Right.
This past week alone, I've had several politicians' aides and businessmen attempt to bluff, in regards to "inside information" on fracking plans, etc. Without going into one of my long-winded rants, I'll use an different, yet related, example to illustrate:

When I worked as a community organizer on Richardson Hill, outside the hamlet of Sidney Center, I was confronted with a 120-acre toxic dump site .... averaging 50 foot deep, contaminating two lakes -- one that emptied into the Susquehanna watershed, the other into the Delaware watershed.

I had to read the extensive NYS DEC files. I noted that page 100,556 was missing. It was an internal letter from June 30, 1993, regarding the results of three days of rain (every fish in one lake died as the result of the run-off). It was a struggle to get a copy of a letter that was, by law, part of the public record.

Indeed, when I got page 100,556, I found that some top state officials were purposely lying to the public. They were industry lap dogs, to be kind.

I do my research. They need to understand that.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. Sherrod Brown is going to be a tough presidential candidate in 2016...
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. In my dreams
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. If he beats back whoever the GOP candidate is...
He will be courted. He is a true progressive. Notice how he is on the cable news outlets more and more...
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. October 6, 2011
OPEN LETTER: THE U.S. OCTOBER 2011 MOVEMENT STANDS IN SOLIDARITY WITH OUR GLOBAL ALLIES

Inspired by the courageous, nonviolent uprisings in Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, Greece, Spain, and elsewhere, people in the United States have come together to form the October2011 Movement. This fusion of peace, social justice, environmental, student, and immigrant rights organizations is in solidarity with all who seek a peaceful, just, and sustainable future and stands ready to engage in its own campaign of nonviolent resistance beginning in Washington, D.C., this October.

http://october2011.org/welcome

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1235538
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MouseFitzgerald Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. I really hope Cuomo doesn't run
He would be a huge step backwards from Obama. The guy is a corporatist tool through and through.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Congrats on 100 posts!
:toast: :bounce:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I think they are quite alike, frankly. Appealing & seem to have a few liberal bones.
Edited on Sun Jul-17-11 07:40 PM by KoKo
In Cuomo, Jr.'s case...he doesn't speak as well about the "plight of the American worker" in as eloquent terms as his father. And, he's a different generation.

It's a mystery why the Father (Mario) didn't run after his eloquent speeches. Often, though, the son is not the father. Different times, values and perceptions make a difference. We are in such changing times...and Unions and such are very "old school" these days.

I think Cuomo and Obama are people of their time. I think they both love Wall Street very much. They are aware of which side the "bread is buttered on." (as my granny used to say)

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