Jon Stewart Lashes Out At Anti-9/11 Cross Atheists: ‘Why Do You Give A Sh*t?’ - VIDEO

[Tx4obama]

Opening Segment VIDEO: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-lashes-out-at-anti-911-cross-atheists-why-do-you-give-a-sht/

[BNJMN]

1. StewBeef, trying to be 'edgy' and 'independent'.

[Gman]

2. Good question

It's not "lashing out". Just a good question to people that can't stand what other people do.

[patrice]

3. REALLY good question. Too bad people are so selective about asking it. nt

[Ohio Joe]

10. YEAH! Anyone that objects to state sponsored Christianity needs to be questioned

How dare they!

:eyes:

[patrice]

53. Questions about "selectivity" are good all of the way around, including to one's self. nt

[patrice]

54. In fact, that's where REAL revolution begins. nt

[11 Bravo]

92. And if the beam had been twisted into a crescent, and Glenn Beck was ranting against it's display ..

as being some sort of a tribute to Islam, you would be cool with that, right?

[Ohio Joe]

93. I am opposed to the government promoting any religion

This particular time they are trying to promote christianity but you can be assured I will also voice an objection when they try to promote Islam or any other religion.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. ...

[SpartanDem]

4. He's right about that being a dickish comment

that's going make those who might sypathmetic hate the cause

[GillesDeleuze]

27. i think the comment was spot on

their god couldn't protect them from muslims, but because of some random rubble, we are supposed to think he cared?

what a twisted view of the world that should be shunned and ridiculed.

[Arugula Latte]

67. It's laughable, but millions and millions embrace this twisted pretzel logic.

Very sad and very pathetic.

[cordelia]

97. Is your hatred reserved just for the Christian

God and believers, or do you apply it to all religions/belief systems equally?

It's very sad and very pathetic.

[PassingFair]

100. Doesn't sound at all like HATRED.

Perhaps a touch of pity, but that's something
very different from hatred, don't you think?

[Arugula Latte]

103. Pointing out that a belief makes no sense is not hatred.

We do it all the time here on DU -- belief systems are not immune from criticism.

I do think it's ridiculous that no matter what the so-called deity does, it comes out smelling like roses. Any massive tragedy has "a reason" -- of course ours is not to question or to know! NO, of course not! Oh, and if one person is plucked from the wreckage of a burning plane, let's say, that's because "God saved him/her." Yes, those other schmucks who died just weren't worth the attention of the hovering invisible omnipotent one. Come on, it's laughable.

[immoderate]

105. It's god's way of saying "fuck you." A kind of signature on his work.

I know the answer, "God delegated this jurisdiction to his evil underlings, so it's not his fault." There's always a logical explanation if you have faith. :shrug:

--imm

[Hissyspit]

5. Because 9/11 was not about Christianity, Jon, that's why.

And the entire building was made up of perpendicular cross beams. The cross they found is significant of NOTHING other than the building was torn apart. The building was full of Americans of all number of belief systems. Is there any particularly good reason the Islam vs. All Americans are Christians false dichotomy should be reinforced at Ground Zero?

[uppityperson]

6. Thank you, well put. Use this one instead, much more representative.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1667389&mesg_id=1667389

[riderinthestorm]

90. +1. I wish that there could be a secular zone around Ground Zero to enforce neutrality

So NO religions are "favored" or promoted at, or near, the site (that's my objection to any more religious centers Islamic or not, going up nearby).

The terrible destructiveness of rabid religiosity should be highlighted, and that zone should be declared a neutral "religious free" area. Places to meditate, sing, relax, or even pray (without any overt symbology) would be welcome to without ANY religious designations.

[krabigirl]

116. Exactly.

[demosincebirth]

7. He's right. Why do they give a shit...just don't go there.

[Kalidurga]

8. Considering the violence the cross represents....

it is probably an apt symbol to place at ground zero.

[leftynyc]

20. The cross represents violence?

Do you realize the cretins on the right are saying the same thing about building a mosque so close to ground zero?

[uppityperson]

30. Several blocks away vs on it. eom

[xocet]

37. The cross is a method of execution: thus, it symbolizes violence. n/t

[patrice]

57. Un-deniably TRUE. 2000 years of State-ChurchCo sponsored violence. nt

[Zax2me]

81. FALSE.

Of course anti-religion goons are going to paint a religious symbol as negative.
It's their job.

[patrice]

87. Look into church history, especially in the Americas. nt

[PassingFair]

101. Right. It can never be perceived as negative!

[backscatter712]

107. Like Bill Hicks said, if Jesus comes back, do you think he ever wants to see a fucking cross?

And all those Christians wearing crosses around their necks...

That's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a sniper rifle pendant and saying "Hi Jackie, just thinking of John! We loved him!"

[EFerrari]

40. State violence, at that. And the mosque isn't at ground zero

and it's a community center, so no, it's not the same.

[patrice]

56. Lord Jesus is still here and we are still abusing/torturing/killing him for ChurchCo. I'd say that's

violent.

[Divine Discontent]

84. which says plenty about the correlation between those on the right and those who would say that on

our side. It's disgusting at the least!

[demosincebirth]

29. That is your opinion and you are, basiclly, a small minority. Me? I could

care less if its there or not.

[patrice]

55. Nailed! it! - In more ways than just one.

If we were over at HuffHo, I'd say F&F (Fanned & Faved), but I don't hang out with Arianna-the-pony-fairy's fans on that sloppy website,
so. . .
:hi: Xs :hi:

[immoderate]

106. What if Jesus had been hanged?

What effect would that have on the jewelry business?

Remember the 2000 year old man revealed the success of Christianity relies on the simplicity of the cross. The Star of David is, "Much to hard to make." :rofl:

--imm

[backscatter712]

108. If Jesus had died 20 years ago, would we be wearing little electric chairs around our necks? n/t

[immoderate]

114. Good point. If contemporary how about a syringe?

What shape is that?



--imm

[pokerfan]

9. Jon channeling Fox News?

Fox News viewers respond to atheists’ suit against “Ground Zero Cross”

http://preliatorcausa.blogspot.com/2011/07/fox-news-viewers-respond-to-atheists.html

[SoDesuKa]

11. God Bless the Atheists

The atheists' lawsuit is in defense of freedom of religion, a worthy goal. Public money should not be used to favor one religion over another. Honoring the implied "miracle" of the survival of the cross is an endorsement of a religious belief, and is impermissible under our Constitution.



Jesus Christ, 9-11 Survivor.

[Iggo]

34. That's why.

[patrice]

76. Amen! nt

[humblebum]

12. Good for him. nt

[CBGLuthier]

13. This particular atheist is in favor of the cross being there.

Under the historical exclusion sometimes carved out.

While it apparently offends some atheists (see comments upthread) that christians clung to some small silly sign like the way a few girders fell I for one do not ridicule people in pain.

Now, ten years later it is a HISTORICAL fact that some folks were in awe of this image.

Let it stand. Find some other battle to fight.

[GillesDeleuze]

25. no way. give christians an inch and they'll take the earth.

no public money for any religion. period. fight the battle.

[RobinA]

14. This Atheist

doesn't give a sh*t. Let people hold on to their little talismen if they want. I always laugh at these "rubble was all around but there was a cross still standing" stories. OK, so god killed all these people and then he left his calling card? The cross was more important than all the lives lost? I don't get it, but if it makes somebody happy I'l smirk in private.

[Aerows]

15. Good question, John

I wonder that, myself. I'm hardly religious, but I have no problem with having a cross there. I also wouldn't have a problem with whatever holy symbols people would like to put there. It's the site of the death of thousands of people. There is nothing wrong with honoring the beliefs of the dead and the living.

[jeff47]

17. So all the dead were Christians?

Or is it ok to dishonor the beliefs of the non-Christian dead?

[Aerows]

21. I just said it is fine for ALL to post them

How does it dishonor Christians for other religious symbols to be displayed, also?

[trotsky]

24. That's what the atheists' suit requests.

Now you know.

[Aerows]

46. Same reply to you, Beer Mug guy :D

I can accept that I'm wrong.

Yes, someone just admitted that on the internet.

[GillesDeleuze]

26. and provide funding from the government to put it up and maintain

i dont think so buddy.

[Aerows]

45. Okay

I can accept that I'm wrong.

Yes, someone just admitted that on the internet.

[humblebum]

47. So if they had left the cross, which is debris from the disaster,

on site, instead of removing it and returning it, would that have made a difference? Or would any piece of debris that resembled a cross need to be destroyed?

[aikoaiko]

16. I don't care. I don't begrudge the god believing when it has no real impact on nonbelievers.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

18. Some people were awestruck by the 'Satan in the Smoke' image.

Maybe they could do a holographic recreation of that. (Oh, wait. That's not Satan, it's just John Lithgow.)


Seriously, I don't begrudge people of faith wanting to preserve the I-beam cross but maybe it would be better to let some nearby church have it to do a memorial on their private property.

[JVS]

19. That looks like a teletubby version of the devil.

[Gemini Cat]

113. It looks like a cat at bat. nt

[starroute]

22. My problem with it is that it's an enthronement of magical thinking

If they wanted to have a range of religious symbols at the site, that would be acceptable.

But the real problem with this "9/11 cross" is that the people who care about it see it as some kind of divine miracle and want to enshrine that in the memorial.

This country was founded by people with a very low opinion of any kind of belief in the miraculous. I hate to see us going back to the Middle Ages.

And the limitation of people like Jon Stewart is that they are too rational themselves to recognize this artifact as anything but a "symbol."

It isn't a symbol, it's a magical talisman. And magic has no place in our shared public spaces.

[truebrit71]

23. Why, because 'god', or 'jesus' had fuck all to do with 9/11....

...and because not all of the victims were 'christians'...

THAT'S WHY YOU FUCKING COMEDIAN!!!

[theophilus]

28. Jon's right on this one, imo. People are people, though. Some atheists can be

just as fanatical and obtuse as some Christians.

[Mz Pip]

32. I agree

I don't get upset over symbols, because in and of themselves they have no power. And symbols can have more than one meaning. This "cross" doesn't register for me on the outrage meter.

Teaching creationism or intelligent design in school matters to me. Making laws that favor a Christian point of view matter to me. Those are tangible things that affect people in a real way.

[GillesDeleuze]

50. Its not the belief, its the entanglement. nt

[LanternWaste]

31. People tend to take as serious a comedian dishing up sacred cow.

People tend to take as serious a comedian dishing up sacred cow.

Maybe comedians should simply stick to jokes about the weather and taxes to better assuage America's delicate sensibilities; although it may not be as funny, it would prevent the offenses taken so clearly on display... :shrug:

[anamandujano]

33. I'd prefer this.

(I finally figured out that the 2001 monolith was a hard drive.)

[Tyrs WolfDaemon]

73. That monolith is real...They even have an action figure of one!

See! It is the correct proportions and has zero points of articulation!



http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/e1e0/

[NoGOPZone]

35. So he asked why people give a sh*t about church and state seperation?

What a dumb question.

[idiotgardener]

39. Yup.

And as you can see from the answers here, lots of DUers aren't too keen on the separation thing either.

[Modern_Matthew]

36. I'm an agnostic... and the presence or non-presence of this cross affects my life in no way.

Therefore, I do not give a shit.

Religious beliefs crossing over into legislation is where I draw the line, but good luck to those who think they will get something out of this.

[deaniac21]

38. Jon Stewart is one of the funniest and intelligent people to have

entertained on tv, evah.

[patrice]

60. It happens that I have personally known quite a few geniuses & Jon rates right in there with them.

I'm only above average, but the kinds of work I have done have usually been around extremely bright folks.

[Ezlivin]

41. Jesus was the 20th hijacker

Or the copilot. I forget.

[xocet]

43. John Stewart and his writers failed to analyze the situation. Why think when one can laugh?

One should separate all religions from the state - period.

Atheism is not a religion - approximately, it is a uniformly distributed lack of belief in religion and in gods.

Not enshrining a particular religious symbol does not support atheism: it just looks that way to people who cannot think objectively about the situation. However, it does support separation of church and state.

Installing a gigantic atheist "atom" symbol would support atheism, but no one is calling for that to be done.

This instance of John Stewart's humor going awry is similar to the instance that occurred when he characterized Keith Olbermann as a liberal equivalent to what Fox News is on the right. (www.opposingviews.com/i/keith-olbermann-jon-stewart-jumped-the-shark-with-rally)

[humblebum]

48. "Atheism is not a religion" - But atheism has indeed been declared a religion by the courts

regarding the free exercise clause. So, if no religious symbols are allowed, then atheism and secularism will be represented by the presence of nothing. And of course that would be unconstitutional. And government money was spent taking the cross away the first time and it will need to be spent again to remove it just to satisfy the atheists. And that is, of course, unconstitutional because government money is spent to promote atheism.

[GillesDeleuze]

49. lulzy reasoning.

it wasn't a cross when they took it away, it was the ruins of a disaster. After they declared it to be a christian symbol, it is installed at WTC memorial.

The constitution requires every government action to be secular. Every action. The lemon test. And this one doesn't pass muster.

[humblebum]

58. "The constitution requires every government action to be secular"

That's a very broad equivocal statement, and the term "free" in the free exercise clause makes it so. Now, if the Court allows the cross to stay and also allows other religious groups to have monuments erected. And if the atheists choose not to, then it seems they have no room to gripe. Plus, the land in question may be on private property.

[xocet]

79. Your arguments taken as a whole are internally inconsistent, and you adduce no evidence. n/t

[humblebum]

95. I should have probably put a 'sarcasm' label on the last statement

Because I was trying to make the point that there are no firm rules. If original intent is figured into the equation, religion was very much intermingled in the workings of government all through US history, so to even claim the absolute separation between C&S or anything close to it is bunk.

[Zax2me]

83. Atheism is not a religion - sometimes I wonder

They profess to know more about any religion than those in them - why other religions are fairy tales, and profess to have all the answers themselves.
Sounds like a pack of religious zealots to me.

[riderinthestorm]

89. Oh, I wanted to believe. Worked hard at it for DECADES trying to be a believer.

Raised in a fundie house, explored every single damn religion on the face of the planet trying to find my "spiritual home". Being a non-believer in the US isn't something one would probably "choose" since we are the most hated group in the US.

I've won my non-believer stripes the hard way and have the knowledge to prove it. That's not religious zealotry, its just a couple of decades of full immersion studies. I don't profess to know all the answers but I do know the answers for myself.

I know I'm not alone in my story.

[humblebum]

94. Atheism is not a religion as such, but the Courts have declared it

as such, in that it is considered to be under the free exercise clause of the 1st Amendment and by extension, the Establishment Clause.

[BiggJawn]

99. Damned Activist Judges

Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour.
I find the concept that Atheism is a religion patently offensive.

[humblebum]

111. That's the fault of atheists who say to have their first amendment rights

to religious expression recognized. I consider organized atheism to be a religion without a god.

[Rob H.]

104. "They profess to know more about any religion than those in them"

That's just it, though: according to a 2010 survey performed by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, on average, atheists and agnostics actually DO know more than professed believers.

So why would an atheist know more about religion than a Christian?

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."

Atheists and agnostics also tend to be relatively well educated, and the survey found, not surprisingly, that the most knowledgeable people were also the best educated. However, it said that atheists and agnostics also outperformed believers who had a similar level of education. (emphasis added--RH)

[immoderate]

110. By your reasoning, a doctor is a disease.

:think:

--imm

[Arugula Latte]

44. Uh, because government-sponsored promotion of religion is against the Constitution?

Also, this is a slap in the face to the non-Xtian victims.

Also, Christians continuously shove their silly religion down our throats and we're sick of it.

Oh, I could go on ...

[patrice]

68. So what do you think of Faith-Based health care & SRS services?

That's what is headed at us full-speed here in Brownbackistan, because Kansas doesn't matter to anyone except Kansans. One of the first things Brownback did was to close down all of the SRS offices in the single strongest Democratic/3rd-party-ish stronghold in the state, Douglas County.

[slackmaster]

51. WHBGAS?

[patrice]

64. ?

[slackmaster]

77. Someone who missed an important Internet meme! Video link here...

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

[patrice]

78. .

:blush: he, he . . .

[cordelia]

65. Absolutely not

[ZombieHorde]

52. Several reasons.

1) The cross only represents some of the victims of 9/11.

2) The cross represents anti-gay sentiments in the US.

3) Non-Christians who live in strongly Christian areas in the US are often targeted for persecution.

4) Separation of church and state.

[Throd]

59. I'm an atheist, and I don't give a shit.

I don't see this as government sponsorship of the Christian faith.

I see it as a relic from a tragic event that gave strength to many people during a desperate time.

At the time, I just concluded that when you have a debris pile that big, something is going to come out looking like a cross.

[patrice]

62. Check out Citizens' for Responsibility & Ethics in Washington, CREW's, documentation, published on

their website, showing the stream of HEAVY-WEIGHT ChurchCo LOBBYISTS who visited their old buddy (20 years of a relationship pretty much counts as old, don't you think?) Prince W in the WH in the months preceding his "decision" to Invade & Occupy a SOVEREIGN nation known as Iraq.

The story of Jesus is a story we tell ourselves* ABOUT OURSELVES that has been turned into a magical BUSINESS by **SOME** people who are the opposite of what they claim to be.

*A conclusion I draw from Sir J. G. Frazer's tome on folk-stories/mythology/religion/anthropology The Golden Bough.

[Throd]

66. Sorry, still don't give a shit.

[patrice]

70. Church-Koch IS the Oppressor here in Brownbackistan. Check out my post #68 above. Thanks.

:hi:

[patrice]

71. On edit: make that - Koch's Church/CoC nt

[Zax2me]

82. Check that - two that don't give a shit.

[patrice]

86. Q. Which means exactly what to anyone else? A. Two don't give a shit. nt

[Proles]

61. I agree with Stewart.

Frankly it's not a big deal, and there are bigger battles to fight.

Things like putting the Ten Commandments in courts, or mandating prayer in public schools, those things are worth fighting.

But fighting against a coincidental arrangement of metal that looks like a cross, and that happens to be important for some people? Who cares!

Seriously, things like this only serve to make people look petty and it distracts from things that actually matter. Pick your battles, don't just go looking for things to fight for the sake of fighting.

[idiotgardener]

63. Can you explain why you think the cross and the commandments are different?

I agree mandated prayer is worse since it mandates participation whereas the other two are just objects displayed.

But the other two seem about the same level to me.

[Proles]

96. Because the law of a court and the wording of the

commandments don't mix.

Unlike a cross, it isn't just some arbitrary, static object -- especially one that's an arrangement of metal.

The commandements tell people how to live their lives -- which, in a legal setting, is just plain wrong. It's foolish when religious conservatives say the Constitution was based upon the commandments. We only "borrow" two, no murdering or stealing.

[Throd]

69. And I agree with you.

Some atheists are like vampires from a 1930's movie.

[patrice]

72. Touching a nerve here somewhere = 4 unrecs in less than appx. 20 mins. nt

[Scottybeamer70]

74. I'm shocked they didn't also find

a piece of toast with the imprint of jesus, or a tortilla with the imprint of jesus, or a...........
I swear they can find more damn things that they try to use to tell the world how important
they are.......or think they are. If jesus was killed on that cross thing, why on earth
would he want to come back and see that symbol everywhere he looked? Seems to me he might
want to find another place to visit without that reminder.

[patrice]

75. Re CREW FOIA requests for WH Visitor Logs prior to Invasion of Iraq

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/bushs-white-house-visitor-log-reveals-revolving-door-religious-right-leaders

[Zax2me]

80. A list that means...what?

nothing.

[patrice]

85. To you. That is, unless you are the SOLE arbiter of meaning for all others. nt

[patrice]

88. Say, btw, that there authoritarian attitude you're carrying around is real "greenie" of you.

Environmentalists know Earth was raped by fascists with a whole variety of labels.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

91. I can't view the video but I am offended by the cross. Many non-Christians died on 9/11.

[onehandle]

98. Atheists clearly enjoy bad publicity.

A tiny, tiny thing in such a high profile place.

Makes Atheists look crazy.

[backscatter712]

115. What's crazy about it?

All the American Atheists are asking is that if they're going to display a symbol representing one religion, that they also allow other memorials - for Muslims, for atheists, etc.

And we're the assholes?

Fuck that shit. Atheists have every right to speak up when their rights are being shit on.

Especially when the story is that the alleged deity allowed 3,000 people to die on 9/11 without lifting a finger, but then turns around and leaves a calling card in the rubble to remind us that He loves us. Sorry to insult your imaginary sky-daddy, but the entire story behind the WTC cross is ridiculous!

This is a government-owned site, it's supposed to be here for all Americans and all citizens of the world who mourn losses from 9/11, not just the ones from the religion that uses an execution device as its symbol. So make room for a Muslim memorial, an atheist memorial, a Jewish memorial, or better yet, move all the religious imagery off the site into private places such as churches, mosques, synagogues, etc.

[krabigirl]

117. No, I think the religous nuts are craY, but whatevs.

[Hissyspit]

120. And the "9/11 cross" doesn't look crazy?

How does this make atheists look "crazy?" Why are their points and concerns just AUTOMATICALLY discounted?

[onehandle]

121. I don't think most atheists would back this suit. They wouldn't 'give a sh*t.'

This object is part of history and is a small thing.

None of the 9/11 site workers built a girder Star of David, Buddha, Ganesh etc... that I know of.

If they had, I would insist it be included as part of historical preservation.

[lynne]

102. Exactly! Excellent question and some good points -

- I'm so sick of the PC politics of "take away" IE: "I don't believe in this so I'm not going to allow you to be comforted by it."

[backscatter712]

109. David Silverman of the American Atheists has piped in...

https://pay.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/japxs/dave_silverman_on_jon_stewarts_comment/

Originally from Facebook, repeated on Reddit:

First off, I'd like to say that I think Jon Stewart is very funny, bright, and talented. I am somewhat honored that he considered having me on his show, and disappointed that he chose to talk about me without having me on. I also think his bit about me was darn funny, and made me laugh.

But he was wrong. He gave a one-sided, albeit funny, account of a serious issue facing this serious event. I am not a dick just because I am standing for equal representation. I am not being grumpy because I expressed what many people are thinking about the cross (that the idea that God sat back and watched the event happen, then deemed to give Christians a cross to show his love is a ludicrous position). It is certainly no laughing matter that the press is making us out to be unpatriotic during an act of patriotism.

Good comedy, poor journalism. We are reminded that Jon is a comedian, not a news source. That's OK. Perhaps we were taking him too seriously anyway. Hopefully they will actually invite me on to give our side, talk about the importance of SOCAS and government equality, and make a real case to America why the WTC Memorial/Museum should be religion-even, if not religion-free.

[onehandle]

122. double post

[onehandle]

123. Ohhhhh.... So it should be 'religion-free.'

Gotcha.

I trust he's contacting the many, many museums and memorial institutions in NYC and demanding that the thousands of paintings, sculptures etc, of religious imagery be immediately removed.

Or did they just go after this one, small thing for publicity.

Where does he want me to send the check?

[immoderate]

112. Hey, if not for religion, there would be no 9-11. Why not sign their work?

:shrug:

--imm

[Blasphemer]

118. Good point... nt

[anamandujano]

119. Amazingly incisive!

You are so right.