You know what, we don't deserve to win.

[Pab Sungenis]

We don't deserve to win, and probably won't ever again. It's that simple.

Do you want to know why? Because we just let them steal yet another one out from under us, more blatantly than ever before, and we are doing nothing.

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that Kathy Nickolaus tampered with the results in Waukesha County again last night? Using the same exact tactics she did to deny Joanne Kloppenberg her seat on the state Supreme Court? In any sane person's mind, there shouldn't be.

Yet the Democratic Party is rolling over once again. Every time there's even a hint that the Republicans have tampered with another election we tuck our tail between our legs and walk away. They get more and more blatant with it each time they get away with it.

We lost that seat in Wisconsin because we didn't fight back after Prosser was handed an election that fell off the back of a truck. If we had, maybe Kathy Nickolaus would be out of office right now and someone slightly honest may have been in place. Or at least she wouldn't have thought she could get away with manufacturing votes to once again keep the Republicans in control. And we probably would have won, or at least had a fair chance.

Please don't spin a close result in this election as a victory. It wasn't. It was worse than a defeat. It was a capitulation, and it's just going to encourage the Republicans to commit more and worse voter fraud.

And if we let them get away with that, then we might never win another election ever again. And if we let them get away with that, we don't deserve to win.

[cali]

1. If there's evidence of vote fraud, let's see it.

[Pab Sungenis]

6. We don't have the evidence

because we're not forcing an investigation. This is the same tactic she used in the Prosser race and in other elections before, and we're allowing her to get away with it.

[pipi_k]

10. No evidence...

Isn't that the way things work?



You don't force an investigation to get EVIDENCE.

You use evidence to force an investigation to get PROOF.


No, or not enough, evidence...means no investigation. People's suspicions are not enough evidence.

Same thing happened here in Mass when Scott Brown won Ted Kennedy's Senate seat. Many people thought there was tampering.

No evidence...just that they didn't like the result. That's not enough to launch an investigation.


:shrug:

[jtuck004]

29. "You use evidence to force an investigation to get PROOF."

Just thought that should be a subject line by itself. It's instructive.

[Bake]

13. There needs to be an investigation.

But this Justice Department is too busy busting medical marijuana users. They don't want to go after the Thugs ... that was NEVER in their game plan.

God only knows what their game plan is ...

Bake

[lunatica]

2. yeah right. No one fought back

That's pure bullshit.

they get away with it because they've got all the angles covered. Because they have the State legislature, the State Supreme Court and the Koch money and all it can buy. But you blame the Democrats for 'not fighting back'.

Bullshit.

[DTinAZ]

5. actually, the OP is right

according to this:

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/127444493.html

The Wisconsin D party *started* to fight back, last night, and then the state party chairman apparently retracted everything that was said and gave up. According to the coverage on MSNBC, there were odd delays in the release of results from Waukesha, similar to the very suspicious state Supreme Court Justice race, where enough votes were "found" to elect the R candidate.

[Zax2me]

3. You have evidence of cheating?

No?
Didn't think so.
The people spoke, they were wrong, so we do a better job of informing next time.

[atreides1]

8. You find evidence

By investigating, it doesn't just walk up and tap you on the shoulder and says "here I am"!

This woman has a history going back before the last election...that in itself should be grounds for at least a prelimanary investigation. Face it, when someone commits a crime law enforcement look at possible suspects who have a history, why should this woman be treated any differently.

[pipi_k]

15. Actually, most evidence presents itself...

Like evidence that a crime was committed.

I think the evidence you mean is the evidence necessary to prove who committed the crime. That kind of evidence, yes...you have to go looking for.


In this case, it appears there is no evidence something underhanded even happened. If there's no evidence of that, why should there be an investigation? That would only happen if evidence that a crime had been committed presented itself.

[JVS]

4. Same person, same thing? You gotta be shitting me.

[Ruby the Liberal]

9. Spooky, no?

[Demit]

24. Not same thing. She didn't suddenly 'find' a whole bag of ballots this time.

Her explanation for one precinct was that they were slow in reporting b/c they were still tallying absentee ballot results. They were so busy during the day (turnout was high) they couldn't do it as they went along, and there were a lot of them. I'm a poll worker; this is plausible to me.

The Waukesha wards that fall in the 8th District are suburbs. Somebody posited (someone on our side) that the recent black kids disturbance at the state fair might have had an effect on voters there. This is plausible too.

If the Dem officials in Wisconsin didn't feel they had enough, I guess you would call it probable cause, I have to go with what they know & think. Sitting here on the east coast and not being in Wisconsin.

[BeyondGeography]

7. Yeah, sure

:tinfoilhat:

[badtoworse]

11. We lost, so there had to be cheating

You're right - with an attitude like that we don't deserve to win and we won't.

[Pab Sungenis]

18. We lost three of those elections last night fair and square

and if we'd lost either of the other two I would have chalked it up to any number of factors.

But with Kathy Nicklaus' history, and the suspicious withholding of numbers from Waukesha County districts until after everyone else had been reported, there is more than Probable Cause for an investigation.

We have a bullet riddled body, and because we don't yet have a smoking gun you insist there was no crime?

[badtoworse]

25. Forget the Prosser election.

It's been discussed ad nauseam on DU and there was no cheating. A mistake in reporting the preliminary tally is not fraud. The correct numbers were reported by the precinct on election night and they were confirmed in the recount.

When you just chalk up a loss to cheating, you lose the lesson as well. I think an honest, objective assessment of voter sentiment is neededafter this. The fiscal and political landscape has changed drastically in the last few years and we should not ignore that.

[HereSince1628]

12. What do you know in New Jersey that isn't known here?

Spinning vote fraud out of thin air and hanging hopelessness and despair on it is about as useful as a bottle of booze.

It's cool to be disappointed. It's stupid to make unfounded accusations.

[RC]

14. Why does DU have so many people that thing that seem to defend

the Republicans side of things? We all know 'Winning!' is everything for the Republicans. There is evidence of the same type of election fraud in the same place as happened before. Yet some here defend it as nothing. As in "Just get over it, we lost, no biggie. Maybe next time."

Folks, we are losing this country to Election Fraud! We need to call attention to and check out each and every suspected incident.

The Republicans, as a whole, are criminals. They don't care about the law or rules. It doesn't matter to them how they play or we play, as long as they win. To them is is a game. Winning is everything. We need to get over any delusions that they are in any way, honest.

[pipi_k]

20. What is the evidence?

What are the Super Sleuths of DU seeing that people who would investigate wrongdoing are missing?


Kind of sounds like the same type of "evidence" the Birthers had which proved Barack Obama was not an American citizen...they're all convinced they're being duped by the entire government... :eyes:

[Pab Sungenis]

23. What is the evidence?

A pattern. More than enough grounds for an investigation.

[pipi_k]

30. A pattern isn't "evidence"

Did people report anomalies?

Votes being switched?

People being asked their political parties and then being turned away based on their being Democrats?

What evidence is there?

[sybylla]

27. Exactly. No one is "letting" this one go.

We had observers and lawyers everywhere in Waukesha County. We captured the numbers at the precinct level - long before Kathy Nickolaus could get her grubby election-fudging fingers on them. Her delay in reporting was the only basis for the claim made last night. When she finally made her official report, the numbers matched. Case closed.

No one wants Kathy Nickolaus out more than Wisconsin Dems. If we had the fucking evidence, we'd be using it, standing outside the door of the god damned GAB ready to file the complaint the minute the doors opened.

Jesus people. Get a grip.

[dionysus]

16. ROFL. it's easy to claim every loss as fraud, innit? that way you can say you always won.

[N7Shepard]

17. File a FOIA for Kathy Nickolaus's stuff. If you don't live in WI, I do. I even live in

Waukesha county...

Hit me up and let's do this.

[Pab Sungenis]

19. Please do.

This needs to be investigated. Her entire operation needs to be investigated.

[N7Shepard]

21. Help me out and I'll do it.

[Pab Sungenis]

22. What do you need me to do?

[sybylla]

26. You can't think we weren't watching every move made in Waukesha county.

There were observers and lawyers on the ground making sure every rule was followed in every precinct. The DPW observed the count and captured the local results before they even went to Nicholaus.

It was her delay that had them thinking she was about to try to fudge the numbers. When the numbers came out accurate to what they captured, they had to retract.

Please. This constant expectation of election theft until proven otherwise is getting tiresome. No one is letting anyone get away with anything. Not in Wisconsin.

All I ask is that we try working with some facts for a change.

[TransitJohn]

28. Reminder: it's election fraud, not voter fraud. eom

:hi:

[Name removed]

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