"...they remain puppets, and do not have a sexual orientation..."

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Bert And Ernie Gay Marriage? Sesame Street Says No



Bert and Ernie will not be getting married. To each other, or anyone else.

The demands of a petition calling for Bert and Ernie to get married, which has become an internet sensation in the last few years, has been gently denied by the Sesame Street Workshop, who issued this statement on their Facebook page:

Bert and Ernie are best friends. They were created to teach preschoolers that people can be good friends with those who are very different from themselves. Even though they are identified as male characters and possess many human traits and characteristics (as most Sesame Street Muppets™ do), they remain puppets, and do not have a sexual orientation.

This isn't the first time the organization has moved to deny a sexual relationship between their two roommate puppets; in June 2010, a tweet sent from the Sesame Street Twitter account from Bert that said his mohawk was more "mo" than "hawk" was suspected by bloggers to be a sort of coded acknowledgment of their relationship.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/11/bert-and-ernie-gay-marriage-no_n_924808.html

[DJ13]

1. Good for them

Not everything needs a sexual identity.

[Rex]

2. Yes we must anthromorphise everything on the planet lest we

begin to believe our importance is only secondary to the planets survival. Bad enough we did it for Big Biz...leave Ernie and Burt alone. Can't people just be good friends anymore...oh wait, there I go doing it!

[Warren DeMontague]

18. Yet you seem to be implying that projecting a gay relationship onto 2 puppets, even humorously

somehow endangers the survival of the biosphere, yourself.

Well played!

[Rex]

25. Not at all.

So you completely miss the point.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. Okay, you weren't being intentionally meta-ironic. Fine.

Here, I thought it was clever.

Either way, unless I'm reading you wrong, you're ascribing an awful lot of dramatic-sounding importance to the act of anthropomorphizing Bert and Ernie.

[Rex]

31. You're reading way into the muppets and not enough into the planet.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Maybe I'm just not seeing the connection.

I think, in the 10 Billion year-or-so lifespan of "the planet", Bert and Ernie aren't really going to register as much more than a blip.

[Rex]

34. I agree completely.

[joeybee12]

3. Leave them alone...years ago some wingnut preacher was calling for eternal damnation for PBS

Because Bert and Ernie were obviously gay. Yeesh! They're puppets!

[amyrose2712]

4. I always thought they were brothers.

[Bettie]

20. I did too

Really, I figured they were brothers and not adults.

[CBGLuthier]

5. While I agree, there are a few questions I must ask

What exactly was Miss Piggy planning on doing with Kermit?
What was Gonzo doing with all those chickens?
What was Animal doing to those drums?

We need answers if the world is going to make sense.

[William769]

6. I have a great joke about miss piggy & kermit.

But it's to dirty to post here.

[RC]

8. No it's not

And if it is, well, the mods will deal with it.

[Duende azul]

9. How bad is it?

Will the post just be deleted or will it get you tombstoned?

And it everybody promises not to alert?

[FloridaJudy]

77. I'd answer you

..but I have a frog in my throat.

[woo me with science]

10. Well, we know what the Count has been doing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Wd-Q3F8KM

[tammywammy]

12. LOL!

:spray:

[EFerrari]

23. What was up with Forgetful Jones and that bad short term memory?

[gratuitous]

7. With all the unemployment in this country

There are a lot of people with far too much time on their hands.

[originalpckelly]

11. But aren't Ms. Piggy and Kermit str8?

Oh yeah, it's OK so long as the sexual orientation is one that everyone accepts, but when it's gay people, not so much, right?

Either Bert is a bear, or he's not gay. No good self-respecting gay man allows his unibrow to untrimmed.
However, I think we all know Ernie is gay.

[applegrove]

13. But, as someone pointed out, Bert has a unibrow. Gay men would have tweezed that.

[True Blue Democrat]

14. I don't care if Bert and Ernie are gay or just best friends/roomies

It doesn't matter.

The thing is Sesame Street has been running/producing the show for 40 years...

[SoCalDem]

15. For Pete's sake.. It's a show aimed at toddlers

little kids hug & kiss each other and hold hands..regardless of gender.. They make friends with everyone who is nice to them..

shame on the people who try to read sex into everything..

[LeftyMom]

17. Orientation isn't sex.

It was evident when a family friend was just a toddler that he was as gay as an Easter bonnet. When he was a teenager he got kind of pissed off because he got the nerve up, came out to people, and the reaction was some variation on "yeah, knew that forever but okay." We all knew he was gay long before he knew what that word meant, what sex was, or what sort of sex he wanted to have someday with what sort of person. He's pushing thirty now, and yep, still gay.

I guess my point is this: some of the kids watching Sesame Street are gay. They're not going to grow up and be gay at some point in the nebulous future. They're gay right now, they were gay the day they first drew their first breath, and they'll be gay the day they draw their last. They deserve to see happy, loving models of adult relationships they can aspire to, and unfortunately some of them won't have access to that in real life. Further, a whole lot of problems can be solved, for those kids, their friends, and society as a whole, if their friends grow up seeing Bert and Ernie being gay being less odd than Bert's weird obsession with bottle caps, and carry that attitude forward to real people.

Do you complain about the hetero relationships on Sesame Street and heteros "read(ing) sex into everything"? If so, I'm sad for you, because orientation is about relationships and relationships are about a hell of a lot more than sex.

[SoCalDem]

21. just that little kids recognize "friend", and probably do not think "sex"

gender/orientation/whatever.. Adults with narrow minds project "meanings" where none were intended, or necessary:)

when someone realizes that they are gay, they themselves will look back and try to figure out when and where they realized it, and maybe B & E will be part of that exercise, but for most people..the broader audience, they are just two cute little puppet guys who like each other and share space..

[LeftyMom]

22. There are several hetero relationships depicted on the show, including muppets.

Why is that perfectly okay, but a gay couple is objectionable?

[SoCalDem]

24. never said it was.. (

It's obvious that you see things from a slant I do not, and there's no use to continue to try to "prove me wrong".. I do not have an agenda, and each can make of it what they will, but I still maintain that I (personally, me and only me..not trying to convince anyone else) think it's not appropriate to berate Sesame Street into creating a storyline that they never intended for B & E.:hi:

Your opinion is a very valid one for YOU, and probably no less valid than mine.. we can each have our own, and not wish ill will on either :)

done here:)

[Creideiki]

30. Little kids recognize their parents are in a relationship

even if they don't realize that they're having sex.

All the straight people that I was surrounded by didn't turn me straight.

However, me coming out was much more difficult without earlier positive role models.

That and I have several gay couple friends (both men and women) with children who keep looking around. Normalize the relationship of their parents for their sake, not for the Bert and Ernies of the world.

[melissaf]

60. But Bert and Ernie aren't really adults.

They're kids, or at least kid like. (Yeah, they have their own apartment together. I think we're supposed to overlook that.) I think having gay adults on Sesame Street would be the way to go on this one. A "gay identity" is too complex for kids to understand at this age--they see people as people. If Bert and/or Ernie really have a gay identity, fine, but it doesn't have to be flagged as such. Being in a relationship is what adults do, and since Bert and Ernie aren't real adults, they should be left out of the gay marriage/relationship equation. Just introduce a gay human couple on Sesame Street. (Although hold onto your hats if anyone ever tried to do that. The Right-wing nutzis would go bonkers.)

[Vanje]

65. Oh! Lets not offend Right-wing nutzis!

[LeftyMom]

71. Other muppets on the show have hetero relationships.

And yes, kids certainly do understand that people form relationships, and that some of those people are both boys.

[Maine-ah]

76. wish I could rec your post.

:applause:

[gauguin57]

36. Love your "many faces of Bachmann" panel.

Eek.

[TheWraith]

16. I love that line that you quoted in the subject...

Not just because it calls out the absurdity of people talking about gay puppets, but it's a high quality slam on all the people who take pretend-reality way too far. There's nothing wrong with being emotionally invested in things, but if you really feel that much of a need to treat everything you see on the TV as "real," and start weaving it into the rest of the world, it's kind of disturbing.

[Silent3]

19. If they were Teletubbies, of course...

...that would be an entirely different matter.

[Behind the Aegis]

26. Heaven forfend there EVER be a wedding or demonstration of sexual orientation!

[TK421]

28. And this, ladies and germs, is the news in America

sad, isn't it? Really-fucking-sad

edited to add: before anyone snarks that it was only broadcast in the US, I saw this on the news on two different networks tonight and people are already raising a stink about it..before anyone tells me that other countries are broadcasting it and before I tell you to go to hell and all that jazz.

[TK421]

29. Fuck the lack of jobs in this country...fuck the economy...fuck the wars we want to end

instead, why don't we all just focus on the dubious sexual orientation of MOTHERFUCKING PUPPETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


YOU SONS OF FUCKING WHORES!!!!!!

[seabeyond]

33. ha ha. love the answers. morons, they are puppets to entertain little kids. sexual orientation

is not a consideration of the show..... dumbshit, perverted adults. lol

[Vanje]

38. Why is sexual orientation "perverted" when its same sex.....

.....and A-Okay when its hetero?

No one had a problem with Miss Piggy and Kermit (blatant heterosexuals), yet presumably gay puppets are perverted!?!!

Please PLEASE explain!

[seabeyond]

39. bah haha. ya, right, that is what i said. they are puppets. non sexual. puppets.

wanna get kermit adn piggy going on? fine. huge ass boobs, they sexualized. honestly, i dont know that i have ever seen that show, so clueless.

but the kid age that watch sesame street are not sexual. they are toddlers. the puppets arent sexual. they are puppets.

hence

NOTHING to do with gay or straight. puppets.

the perverted is making this non sexual puppet act for toddlers, sexual.

again. not gay or straight, not any sex, for babies....

[melissaf]

66. One minor point--not on the "perversion" thing,

but on Miss Piggy and Kermit: the relationship between those two characters was created for the Muppet Show, which is aimed at older kids and/or adults, not preschoolers. Sesame Street and the Muppet Show are supposed to have different audiences.

Also, I still think Miss Piggy and Kermit getting married is way icky.

Also, I think there was some "flap" between Miss Piggy and Kermit that she inserted a "real" priest at the end of that movie so they would "really" be married, and Kermit was a bit upset about that, as he didn't "really" want to be married, because it was all supposed to be a movie.

So Miss Piggy and Kermit's relationship is pretty twisted. Can't comment on a homosexual relationship between Muppets, as I don't think there has ever been one.

[fishwax]

53. Why "pervered"? Does a gay relationship sexualize muppets in a way a hetero relationship doesn't?

There are other muppets on the show who are in (heterosexual) relationships.

[seabeyond]

56. they are puppets. it is a little kid show. no sex. the perverted is trying to sexualize

puppets for little kids.

nothing to do with gay or straight.

[fishwax]

59. Then why is showing characters who are gay different from showing a married hetero couple?

[seabeyond]

63. who said it was fishwax. the people that made the show said they are puppets

no sexual orientation.

i didnt say there is any "difference". i dont know what you are talking about. i really dont care if they do. i dont have a problem with any of it.

[fishwax]

72. well, *you* said it was "dumbshit, perverted adults" suggesting that Bert and Ernie may be gay

The point I've been trying to make is that (a) orientation and sex aren't the same thing, so a theoretical gay relationship between Bert and Ernie need not sexualize them anymore than a heterosexual relationship between Oscar and Grundgetta; and (b) to object to a gay relationship as perverted and not object to heterosexual relationships is offensive.

[seabeyond]

74. and my point is toddlers... leave there world alone. like making tinky winky gay.

it is a little kid show and they dont knwo about any of this shit, or care.

i didnt realize there was a movement to marry the two to bring a gay relationship into a kids show. i thought it was rwer bitchin about them living in the same bedroom.... (i recall two twin beds).

i do think it is perverted when adults try to read things into little kids shows.

i dont care if bert and ernie get married. but then i really dont see any other married puppets regardless of what you say, and i dont think that is the intent of sesame street.

i did like what one poster said about bring a gay couple on the show as a guest. or they do have adult people, have a gay person in the mix.

[Vanje]

35. What I learned from this DU thread:

Hetero marriage is about love and families.

Gay marriage is about genitalia.

[LeftyMom]

37. Fucking unreal, isn't it?

It's a good thing that there's no homophobia on DU, isn't it? ;)

[seabeyond]

41. really? really? so cause i did not see bert and earnie in a relationship, i am homophobic? nt

[LeftyMom]

43. Guilty conscience? I wasn't talking to you. nt

[seabeyond]

44. ha ha. right. you know anything about my life and the people in it?

no? exactly.

[LeftyMom]

48. You're still laboring under the delusion that I was talking to or about you.

Good luck with that.

[Vanje]

47. Are you?

[seabeyond]

52. what in this thread is making the poster suggest so many are homophobic?

i dont get it. was a statement off your post.

[Nye Bevan]

51. So those of us who don't think Ernie and Bert should declare their sexuality are now homophobes? nt

[Dappleganger]

40. Sometimes a puppet is just a puppet...

but it was my impression that Sesame Street was supposed to send a message to all kids out there. They really need to have a couple of gay characters (and I haven't watched the show since our kids were very small, so have no idea if that's happened). It would be be cool for some child to grow up and identify with at least one puppet on the show, knowing that he/she is perfectly normal and are surrounded by gay people in all walks of life. Actually, I'd prefer to see them in families as more kids would identify in that situation.

[gauguin57]

42. Bert's too crabby sometimes. Ernie has a sunny personality. He should hang with Tinky-Winky.

[closeupready]

45. I watched Sesame Street during the Odd Couple era, and

so it never seemed weird to me that two men would be roommates or live together. Naive, but then again, I was just a child, so I never sexualized their relationship in my mind.

[fishwax]

46. Kermit and Miss Piggy appear to have a (hetero)sexual orientation

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

50. i havent seen the show but asking son about these two. he says hasnt seen them living together

hasnt seen them as boyfriend and GF

it is puppets, he says. it is a little kids show. who knows.

are kermit and miss piggy getting it on? i dont know. i havent seen. kids dont take it to this.

like the purple dude with the other three and the sun face that falwell make a stink about.

winni the pooh giggles.... said my son

[fishwax]

54. well, they were married in one of the movies

although that was something of a ruse and they aren't really married now. But Miss Piggy has always pursued Kermit. And there are muppet characters on Sesame Street who are married.

I think there is a clear difference between "these two characters are in a relationship" (gay or straight) and "these two characters are getting it on."

[seabeyond]

58. kids never saw the movies. and i was trying to think of any of the puppets on

sesame street married and couldnt think of any. been a decade or more though

[fishwax]

61. Oscar the grouch has a girlfriend, for one

Is that sexualizing him?

And there is at least one married couple, though I don't recall their names (I haven't seen it in years, myself).

[seabeyond]

64. never saw a GF. there is a female grouch. but again, didnt know GF

and still cant recall a marraige, nor can son.

but ok.

so what?

[Vanje]

67. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO with

"getting it on"

[fishwax]

73. agreed (I was going for understatement)

:hi:

[seabeyond]

55. just talked to youngest son. bert is his hero. i didnt know that. bert and ernie

his favorite.

he didnt know they were gay. and never saw piggy and kermit getting it on either.

thought they were all just friends.

[fishwax]

57. what does "getting it on" have to do with it?

[seabeyond]

62. sigh. i thought this was another rw attack on a little kids show about conditioning little kids

in sexual orientation. i did not know i was suppose to side with bert and ernie being in a relationship. in all the decades of the show, i never thought of them in a relationship. i thought friends living together.

the show was not meant to draw a conclusion of a relationship.

i liked what the man said about they are puppets.... not about sexual orientation.

and that is how a little kid sees it.

if they want to put in a relationship between two same sex, they are gonna have to draw the lines a little more clear. cause it is not with bert and ernie.

i thought stupid going after spongebob (we never watched) and twinky winky

think this is stupid, too.

that is all.

[Vanje]

68. IT DOES"NT HAVE A GODDAM thing TO DO with

"getting it on"!


You, I wonder about.
Seems you can't think of relationships outside the context of "getting it on".
Kinda Pervy.

[seabeyond]

69. oh whatever. i only read the part of... puppets... no sexual orientation. i heard some rwer

bitchin about them the other day.

i didnt know what everyone was getting bothered about on this thread and why bert and ernie cant be friends...

actually reading the OP, i see there is a movement to get 'em married.

k

got it

this is the lefts effort to bring a same sex relationship in a kids show.

fine

i will sign

i dont have any issue with kids being around gay couples or seeing gays represented on tv or in the cartoons. i have two brother in laws that are gay and have willed kids to one of them if we die.

so

be concerned.

[InvisibleTouch]

75. Cross-species romance.

Surely someone could make a scandal of that? ;)

I don't think Miss Piggy ever appeared on Sesame Street, not that I'm an expert on the matter. Her relationship with Kermit was interesting, but maybe a bit too adult for young kids. Having said that, I don't have a problem with thinking of Bert and Ernie as television's original gay couple. The association is vague enough that one can see them either way.

[Nye Bevan]

49. Everyone should leave them alone. Tinky Winky was very traumatized by this kind of speculation.

Tinky Winky gave a revealing interview shortly after Jerry Falwell's death:

"Oh dear, it's easy to say the wrong thing here," he said. "Tinky Winky sad whenever someone dies, but ..." He left it hanging there.

....

"It was traumatizing, really," says Winky, who now owns a holistic healing center and makes occasional appearances on British TV. "I'm a very private Teletubby. I just wanted to get away, go over the hills and far away. But when you're 7 feet tall and purple with an antenna on your head and a TV screen in your belly, where are you going to go?"

Winky says he tried to contact Falwell after the article came out, but the evangelist wouldn't take his calls.

"I wanted to know why he didn't talk to me first," Winky says. "It's not like I'm hard to reach. Have the pinwheel call me. But really I just wanted to clap him on the head with Tinky Winky bag."

The star never has clarified his sexual orientation, insisting on his privacy and denying rumors over the years that he had affairs with two of his costars on the 1997-2001 show, the male Dipsy and the female Po.

"We love each other very much," he says. "Big hug. But it's not like that. It was a kids show, know what I mean? And this Falwell guy and his followers wanted to turn us into something else. We weren't modeling a gay lifestyle and we weren't trying to corrupt anyone's kids. We were just kids ourselves, really. Give us a little Tubby toast or custard and a film of some kids washing clothes or something, that's all we needed. We didn't give a shit about modeling a lifestyle."


http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/feature/2007/05/16/falwell_tinky

[gort]

70. Just because they have someone's hand stuck up inside them does not make them

newsworthy.