The ghost of Tom Joad pretty much sums it up today "I am human being...my life has value"

[The Straight Story]

Wanted to write something really intelligent and cool - but, well, this just sums it up.

"I am human being...my life has value"

from here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqnMrynpq9U

[indurancevile]

1. tom, you're delusional. human life is wasted as a thing of no value daily, all across the planet.

"we are as flies to the gods (of commerce); they kill us for their sport"

[Gregorian]

2. Often, I think of this. It needs further qualification.

To protect those who are weaker, my life is no more valuable than others.
To protect the planet, and other people, others lives are no less valuable than mine.


It can be summed up that we are all equally as valuable.

I think this is at the very core of the differences between us.

[The Straight Story]

3. And whenever I hear that song, this one follows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56mjwycKuXA

We have come so far - we have so far to go.

[Brother Buzz]

4. The real ghost Tom was thinkin' about

Tom Joad: I been thinking about us, too, about our people living like pigs and good rich land layin' fallow. Or maybe one guy with a million acres and a hundred thousand farmers starvin'. And I been wonderin' if all our folks got together and yelled...

Ma Joad: Oh, Tommy, they'd drag you out and cut you down just like they done to Casy.

Tom Joad: They'd drag me anyways. Sooner or later they'd get me for one thing if not for another. Until then...

Ma Joad: Tommy, you're not aimin' to kill nobody.

Tom Joad: No, Ma, not that. That ain't it. It's just, well as long as I'm an outlaw anyways... maybe I can do somethin'... maybe I can just find out somethin', just scrounge around and maybe find out what it is that's wrong and see if they ain't somethin' that can be done about it. I ain't thought it out all clear,

Ma. I can't. I don't know enough.

Ma Joad: How am I gonna know about ya, Tommy? Why they could kill ya and I'd never know. They could hurt ya. How am I gonna know?

Tom Joad: Well, maybe it's like Casy says. A fellow ain't got a soul of his own, just little piece of a big soul, the one big soul that belongs to everybody, then...

Ma Joad: Then what, Tom?

Tom Joad: Then it don't matter. I'll be all around in the dark - I'll be everywhere. Wherever you can look - wherever there's a fight, so hungry people can eat, I'll be there. Wherever there's a cop beatin' up a guy, I'll be there. I'll be in the way guys yell when they're mad. I'll be in the way kids laugh when they're hungry and they know supper's ready, and when the people are eatin' the stuff they raise and livin' in the houses they build - I'll be there, too.

Ma Joad: I don't understand it, Tom.

Tom Joad: Me, neither, Ma, but - just somethin' I been thinkin' about.

[Jakes Progress]

14. "They'd drag me down anyways."

People need to stop being afraid of losing something because they are going to take it anyway. If you don't fight back for everyone, there will be no one left to fight for you. And they will come for you. Slow or fast, sooner or later. They will come for you too. Hiding behind a comfortable life while others suffer will not protect you.

[DeSwiss]

5. ''When the social contract is broken, the people must revolt.'' - John Locke - K&R n/t

[wiggs]

6. Saw Bruuuuuccee and Tom do it in LA live at the Forum. nt

[provis99]

7. of course, the irony of Okies like Tom Joad is

once they made it to California and set up their farms, they became rich, and now the descendants of these Okies are arch-conservative exploiters of illegal immigrants.

[indurancevile]

8. but most didn't get rich. or even set up farms.

[Le Taz Hot]

11. Oh fer crissakes!

Um, no. Just. No. It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant folks are of this area. The farms to which you are referring are, mostly, STILL family farms. Only a relatively few dust bowlers were able to "set up farms" and VERY few were/are anything near what would be classified as "rich." Most drifted into other areas of work, some farm-related and some not.

I am a "descendant of those Okies" and I can't imagine anyone referring to me as an "arch-conservative" and, though there are a few exceptions, the same is true of most of my "okie" family. I don't know that any of my family "exploited illegal immigrants" but a good portion married into immigrant families and theirs into ours so it's kind of difficult to distinguish who the "okies" are anymore (not that anyone gives a shit). The point is, I think my family history here is pretty typical of the dustbowlers and their descendants.

And do yourself a favor. Using a broad brush to define roughly 2 million people as being absolutely identical makes you look, well, less than intelligent.

[provis99]

12. The Central Valley of California is the most conservative area in the state.

You obviously don't know much about your own people; and anecdotes about your "family" don't apply to the mass of Okie descendants in California. for the definitive statement on Okie conservative political culture in California, you should read James Gregory's work, America Exodus: The Dust Bowl Migration and Okie Culture in California. One thing I found particularly startling was the widespread support for the Ku Klux Klan in the 1930's and 1940's among Okies, who saw Chinese immigrants as competitors for farming jobs; ironic, given Okies' own complaints about discrimination against them.

[Le Taz Hot]

13. So you've gotten everything you know about

the Central Valley from a book?? Pretty much says it all, doesn't it. Get back to me when you've lived here for 40 years and can SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE.

News flash: The KKK in the 1920's and 30's were in every state and had support in California from the same factions that were in your state, whatever that is.

My point remains: Anyone willing to paint 2+ million people with the same broad brush is one with, a) an agenda or b) an inability/unwillingness to consider us as individuals.

One last thing: Fresno County went for Obama in 2008.

[provis99]

15. so a scientific study is worth less than your "feelings".

Ok, bub. And you paint all the Okies with a broad brush by implying they are all like your few family members.

[rasputin1952]

9. The final scene of The Grapes of Wrath is a reflection we...

all feel from time to time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yer4L1Uhayc

[Delphinus]

10. Much to think about

throughout this thread. Thanks to all.