Mentally Ill people can have political leanings and beliefs

[Still a Democrat]

I have no doubt the shooter is mentally ill - but that doesn't mean politics didn't contribute or play a factor in his rampage. Some are seeing those two things as mutually exclusive.

[xchrom]

1. correct. nt

[cali]

2. for sure. religion and politics figure big in psychotic delusions

[NNN0LHI]

3. If politics weren't involved he wouldn't have shot a US Congresswoman in the head

Millions of people to shoot out there and he chose a US Congresswoman.

I will take a wild guess here and say politics were involved too.

Don

[elocs]

4. The operative word here is "guess".

This entire tragedy has been rife with speculation and guess.

[Still a Democrat]

6. That would be quite a coincidence don't you think? n/t

[elocs]

9. Perhaps not because he was upset with her over her answer to an irrational question

he asked her at a meeting years earlier about words. It could just as well have been irrationally personal as political.

[kctim]

7. Think it is possible he was infatuated with her?

She is an attractive woman and in a position of power.

[hamsterjill]

14. A Democratic Congresswoman

Yes, I think politics were involved. And I believe that his choice of targets pretty much makes his party affiliation clear, too.

[onenote]

17. does that mean Hinkley was a Democrat? That Sarah Jane Moore and Squeaky Fromme

were Democrats? Does that mean Arthur Bremer was a Democrat when was planning to assassinate Nixon and a repub when he tried to assassinate Wallace (who, after all,was running as Democrat).

We don't know whether there was any partisan component to his actions. Maybe evidence will come to light one way or the other. But concluding we know his "party affiliation" from the fact he targeted his Congressperson, someone who directly represented the government to him and someone against whom he apparently harbored an irrational grudge, is over the top.

[onenote]

16. while I think he went after Gabby because she represented the government

and he had some extreme, even crazy views about the government and grammar and who knows what else, a political act is not the same as a partisan act. And in the more extreme cases even shooting a politician might not be a political act -- I don't think Hinkley's attempted assasination of Reagan was a political act (although I know others disagree).

One can target an individual, plan an attack, carry it out and still be quite mentally unbalanced.

[HereSince1628]

5. Yes, at least some of the mentally ill do have political views

Strange how similar most of them are to us. They can walk and talk and just blend right into those shuffling masses in the shopping mall.

Well, I should stipulate I'm not using us exactly as in me and the rest of y'uns--because I am one of THEM.

[Cetacea]

11. I heard that they have sex and stuff, too.

And are extremely creative, poor little things (when they are not being so terribly violent!)

[HereSince1628]

25. Watch out for those creative ones...Van Gough ruined European Art

and cost art investors billions!

[elocs]

8. The mentally ill are more susceptible to act upon irresponsible words that encourage

hate or violent actions against a particular group of people. It would be logical to believe that if those words came from someone they supported or respected that they would be more likely to act upon them. But this would likely also be true of the fanatical idealogue such as Timothy McVeigh or the Fort Hood shooter who violently act upon their beliefs while not being mentally ill.

[cali]

10. oh yeah? where's your evidence for that claim?

[cali]

12. in fact, let me just say that that's bigoted crap

the mentally ill are no more likely to commit violent crimes than anyone else.

[EstimatedProphet]

19. Unfortunately, some are

[Cetacea]

21. Like just as many without mental illness.

[EstimatedProphet]

22. Quite true

[elocs]

29. OK, you responded postively to my previous posts about this and I think you know better

regarding what I say. I never said that the mentally ill commit more crimes than anyone else because I know that is not true. I have a 19 year old goddaughter who is living with me and she is a schizophrenic so I do know a thing or two about that mental illness. So I am hardly bigoted toward the mentally ill and I do know they are far more often the victims of crime as opposed to committing them.

I am saying that schizophrenics such as in this case with Jared Loughner's words and actions and being disposed to violence as well as not being medicated, that when they hear the words of people with whom they agree or respect encouraging them to hatred and violence they would be more likely to act upon that.

[el_bryanto]

13. The problem is that you can't draw a straight line

from the language most of us decry and the actions of this gentleman. It's possible that additional information will come out that will show him to be a follower of Beck or Palin, but as of now, he's an extremely blurry figure.

Bryant

[Maru Kitteh]

15. You speak of "mentally-ill people" like it's some homogeneous group. Like "the hispanics" or

"the blacks" is used by some to remove the individuality of large groups of people. "Mentaly ill" is a category as broad and varied as the category of "physically ill."

You seem to demonstrate a near complete lack of understanding of what mental illness is.

[EstimatedProphet]

18. It doesn't even matter if he did have political views

The point here is deliberately being missed by the right: claiming he was mentally ill doesn't mean that he wasn't influenced by the political rhetoric - it could easily mean he was more likely influenced by it. Sane people wouldn't draw the conclusion that they should go shoot people because of the rhetoric.

[jwirr]

20. You are correct but in this case he is hard to read. I suspect he planned

it that way - giving many false leads.

[Maru Kitteh]

24. Really? Since HIGH SCHOOL he's been planning this, putting an act on for YEARS?

Just waiting for the opportunity some six or seven years later to go shoot a congresswoman and a nine-year-old? Really?


That makes every bit as much sense as Rush Limbblah's assertion that Loughner was smiling in his mugshot because he knew the "Democrat" party was on his side, helping him.

[jwirr]

27. I surrender.

[Zax2me]

23. His friend disagrees

Must see video, ABC News -
http://abcnews.go.com/US/tucson-shooting-friend-jared-loughner-speaks-motive-alleged/story?id=12597092

SNIP - Regarding the high-pitched talk radio and cable news political rhetoric, Osler says his friend didn’t even watch the news.
“He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides.
He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right”.


Why so many didn't wait for more info before reacting is beyond me...

[Common Sense Party]

26. It's not beyond me. Everyone wanted to assign blame,

Everyone wanted the OTHER side to be guilty of prompting or inciting this massacre.

No one wants to accept the possibility that this kid's brain chemicals were working against him, and that's all there was to it.

[Johonny]

30. I think if you saw Rachel Maddows last night you might change your mind

Most of the killings of this nature in the past clearly had political views. Some had views you could clearly place into a political camp, the vast majority views were such that they remained incomprehensible, a few had no political motivation. Friends can be wrong, or simply not understand a person. Being neither-left nor right doesn't mean not having political views. Eventually he will talk and eventually we will understand whatever it is he meant by this. The odds are his rational will be political in nature but not understandable in the modern political spectrum. Look at the unibomber who was clearly political but clearly so disturb his politics was non-nonsensical. The same could be said of what we learned about the man who flew his plane into the IRS building. Etc.

[Johonny]

28. I think Rachel Maddows covered this pretty well

most likely his political views will be too mixed up and not comprehensibly to place in any political camp.

The best the sane can do is not use the same rhetoric as the clearly disturbed, unless your Sarah Palin, I guess.

[Fire Walk With Me]

31. "Some people just want to watch the world burn."

"Negative" isn't necessarily "mentally ill". Some people are simply looking to be destructive for its own sake, to be predators and to cause harm. To be famous for it. To be very successful in so doing. It can be a specific choice based upon perfect rationality but destructive motivation. Delusion, chemical imbalance, religious visions, hearing voices etc. need not apply. It is a separation from the basic principles we hope to maintain, such as inclusion, support, love, and creation. It's the mirror opposite. That is negativity. To destroy and punish. To dominate and divide and control. To erase and be utterly powerful/selfish.

Does any of that last sound like any particular political party we all know and love? :rofl::hi:

Sorry, but there is the possibility that this man is simply very specifically and purposefully Negative, sadistic, predatorial. He's definitely much further out there than the majority of folks, it very clearly shines from his eyes, that he has a great deal of thought and energy into such things, and such things can -lead- to "illness", but it is not an imprimatur of the extant. Those who cause harm and enjoy it (or even allow harm to come to pass, and enjoy it) are...negative.

Cue picture of Bush playing guitar as New Orleans DIES. I'm too caring about you to actually post an image of Bush, but the case in point stands.

And for the absolutely clueless, I am in no possible manner making excuses for or supporting the gunman. Zero. Not at all. Just making a point.

[HuckleB]

32. That guy must be crazy

http://scienceblogs.com/webeasties/2011/01/that_guy_must_be_crazy.php

Hmmmmmmmmmm.