"Abortion" from MY point of view

[Aerows]

If we disallowed D&C's and abortion, I wouldn't be here. Literally. My mother had suffered two miscarriages before me. The second one nearly killed her.

I wouldn't be here. She nearly died in a Catholic hospital because they kept declaring the fetus viable. My father had to move her to a different hospital, even though they weren't even sure she would survive the transfer, since they were both sure she wouldn't survive staying.

My mother is a staunch conservative, but she is, not surprisingly enough, a staunch advocate for pro-choice. She knows she could have died right there, and idiots would have declared her dead, while her fetus was "declared" alive. It wasn't and never was viable.

I am a thankful recipient of a determined mother, and a father that didn't let his wife die just because some juvenile religious idiot said he "thought" the miscarried fetus she had was viable.

Understand, this is why abortion legislation harms EVERYONE, trying to make a family or not. It's bullshit. A man can get pills to counteract his sexual dysfunction, and no one says a word. A woman tries to keep from dying when she has a bad pregnancy? She's evil.

Women are so much more than broodmares to this society, but it seems far too many believe their daughters, wives and friends are nothing more than broodmares when you introduce this legislation.

[Aerows]

1. Oh, and by the way

If anyone thought I was telling a story to polarize everyone? I won't post my phone number, but my mother will be more than happy to give her choice views on what she thinks of "abortion" "pro-life" people as she calls them.

[Angry Dragon]

4. Just thinking out loud here

Perhaps if your mother could put the experience into her own words and you could post it
and then DU could spread it around the internet so people could
see the people that regressive legislation would harm
Perhaps some people would open their eyes and ears and start thinking for themselves

Just a thought

not sure if I am getting my thoughts out correctly

[Aerows]

6. I could ask her

I think I did it for her, but probably not as emotionally as she does when she talks about it. My mother is a very smart woman.

I'll ask her and see what she thinks.

[Angry Dragon]

7. thank you for considering it

[Drew Richards]

59. That is an excellent Ideal just redact the names

[Aerows]

72. I won't do that

since it is too easy to glean information from people based upon birthdate, phone number and zip code.

I am just trying to tell people that this isn't some imaginative "story" of something that happened. It happened. And God help you if you get in my mother's face about what the definition of abortion "is", or try to tell her that birth control is evil.

She's a conservative and will still tear you another one, because she is smart enough to know that this kind of legislation is a death sentence to women and families.

It's religious fundamental bullshit disguised as being holier than thou. Medical treatment exists to save lives, and hey, if you are so pro-life, why do you take antibiotics that kill bacteria. Ideology has no place in the world of reality - that's why it's called "Ideology" and "Religion", not reality.

[Aerows]

2. Kicking this in light of the fact that MS

The state I live in is considering making harming a fetus a felony. Along with several methods of birth control designed to protect women from getting pregnant after being raped and molested.

[spooked911]

65. we feel your pain

we can only hope that the thinking people in that sadly backwards state wake up to the evil of the fundies.

[ejpoeta]

3. how 'viable' would it be when the mother is dead? i don't get it.

this country is supposed to be for religious freedom, which also means freedom FROM religion. There is no reason that is not religious for abortion to be illegal. There is no reason that is not an ideological religious one for birth control to be illegal. And that is not good enough to legislate it. The proponents of these things might want to believe we are a christian nation, but the fact is that there was a reason our forefathers did not want that. And there are a lot of people who do not follow this belief. And we should not legislate religion. Someone else's religion should not be forced on me or anyone else.

I am glad you are here and that your parents could find a place that they could get actual health care and not religious bs.

[Aerows]

5. My parents are still conservative

And my sister is, too. The interesting thing is that despite all of her "religious" training, she can't have children either due to a heart defect. She instead adopted two children.

She MUST take birth control, because her heart can't sustain having children of her own. She's the buckle of the Bible belt, and they would throw her under the train, too.

I don't get it. How can people be so blind?

[pansypoo53219]

82. because they think in black + white.

all babies are gerber babies and a JOY. anyone not wanting to have it is EVIL.

[Aerows]

108. I don't know that my parents think that

I disagree with them, but they aren't evil. They also don't think in black and white, either, since they are old enough to stand in tall grass :)

[Aerows]

10. I wonder where the rights women have fought so hard for

have gone, when I see legislation like this. We love our children. We work hard. Why are we targets?

[Tsiyu]

63. Everyone' s a target to Fundamentalists

The world is covered in Religious Misogyny.

If you examine the people who write these laws, you find charlatans and perverts as lawmakers. They don't believe in gawd; they believe they are ALL gawds.

And they must appeal to the voters who find it easier to show compassion to a womb-wrapped fetus than to anyone whose face they can see.

[Aerows]

12. I agree

it's more than just religious freedom, it's freedom from religion that has the potential to kill us.

My mother would have died, needlessly, for a fetus that wasn't viable, and I wouldn't exit. Period.

[AngryOldDem]

33. As to your subject line, it's a value judgment that the Church is loathe to admit it makes.

... and it puts the lie to "prolife."

Check out the principle of double-effect -- they don't call it "pretzel logic" for nothing.

[Aerows]

44. Indeed

As your experiences and my families have revealed. I only hope that I help hammer them home. And yes, the fact that despite all the nonsense I'm still alive? It's nonsense, which I'm sure with which you would agree :).

[Lorien]

58. Someone had posted a photo here of a priest holding a sign that said "Kill women

not babies". That pretty much sums up the radical right's view.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

60. jeezus H christ. I always knew that's how they really feel--just shocked to see it

spelled out, without their usual euphemism.



Well folks, there you have it.

[Aerows]

71. My mother would have died

And I wouldn't be here. I guess the radical religious right would have preferred that I not be, since I don't agree with them.

[Demstud]

8. Very good point

Abortion is sometimes a necessary procedure to save a life. Pro lifers too often act like anyone for abortion rights are all about getting abortions for recreational purposes. I think most of the time, when someone gets a late term abortion, it's more because the odds are not favorable to both surviving the process. I'm not going to pretend to know exactly at what point the brain begins functioning like a human baby's brain (self aware, feeling pain, etc.) but surely it has to be the mother's decision as she's the one assuming all the risk and having the procedure done on her body.

[Aerows]

9. This was a necessary one

My father said he could smell death from outside of the room.

Had he not moved my mother from that hospital, I couldn't have been born out of that same womb that nearly had sepsis because they waited so damn long to declare the fetus dead in the hospital.

I'm not against Catholics, but I'm not exactly happy with Baptists, either, since lately, both think it's just fine to kill the mother.

Doesn't matter if it devastates the father, or their other kids. It just matters that the mother carries to term, regardless if it kills her.

[Aerows]

19. I would not be here had they not performed surgery on my mother

Yes, that surgery constituted an abortion, but she would have died otherwise. I'm alive. They pulled a dead and decaying fetus out. It's a shock I could ever get born, but I did, and she got to live, too.

[Aerows]

11. Never kicked my own thread before

This time, it felt necessary.

[Aerows]

13. Kicking because abortion legislation hurts all women, and many men, too

[frebrd]

14. K&R

[yellerpup]

15. Your mother had to fight for appropriate healthcare

when she was in the most vulnerable state. Healthcare decisions are intimate and personal and no one else's beliefs are relevant. Thanks for sharing her story and yours. :kick: & Rec

[Aerows]

16. Exactly

Fight for appropriate health care, when physicians are trained to first "Do no harm".

The pregnancy previous to mine was one that would have left her barren, regardless, had they done nothing. It would have killed her had they done nothing.

[JoePhilly]

17. Here is a similar story from a husband, and a son's point of view ...

About 18 years ago, my wife went into labor with our first child. Everything seemed normal. But after 16 hours of increasing labor, our son stopped moving OUT. He seemed to be stuck.

And suddenly, the vital signs for my wife and our unborn son, started to decline, rapidly.

The DOC pulled me into the hallway and told me that we could reach a point where I might need to make a choice. Save her, save our son, or let it all just play out.

He told me that I did not need to decide yet, but he'd keep me informed of all changes, and that if we reached that point, he'd do what I wanted.

But I knew what I would do already. If I had to pick, or let GOD pick ... I was going to do it. And I would have saved my wife.

As it turned out, I never had to act on this decision. But I did make the decision in my head.

My son is now is now 18 and in college ... and he as 2 younger sisters who he loves very much.

A few years ago, when he was about 15 I think, I told him about this. That I would have picked his mother over him that day.

And he said ... "me too". Then he said, "if mom died that day, then my sisters would have never been born".

[Aerows]

20. You are a good man

I can't say I'm a good woman for wanting to survive, but my mother and my father thought so. A lot of people after the fact have thought so, since a dead fetus had to be "sacrificed" and my mother had to live.

I hate to be so blunt, but I was rather the opposite of your story. Both turned out the way they should have.

I love that your son took it in stride. It says a lot about the quality of his father and mother :D

[JoePhilly]

96. Just saw this ... thanks again ...

You "blunt" comment makes total sense to me.

The abortion issue, and the associated choices are very "complex".

The key thing for me is that some right wing religious bureaucratic should NEVER be allowed to intervene.

These decisions should be made by the woman, families, and doctors. And if THEY choose to include God, fine.

[Aerows]

104. Yep, I can be blunt

Glad it resonated with you. That's exactly why it is a choice to be made with doctors and wives, not legislators

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. Why did you tell him that?

I understand your decision, and that's not what I'm concerned. I am just wondering why you would tell your son this? It doesn't concern who he is, as a person. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. I can see using this story with other, unconnected people, in the pro-choice discussion, I just can't see it doing anything more than potentially harming your son. Especially at 15, when they need to know that you're in their corner. When I was 19 I became pregnant with my first child. I was frightened and very much alone. While abortion is always a consideration in those stories it isn't something I would ever tell her. :(

When I was 16, my mother apologized to me for having me, when she didn't really want children (she was mad at my father at the time). While that is very much her right...it messed with my self esteem for awhile.

[Aerows]

22. People deal with truth better than they do with lies

Beautiful lies eventually break down, then there is the fallout, and it's like nuclear radiation.

He's a good man that tells the truth right away.

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. In some cases...but there isn't a need to say anything in this case.

:shrug:

[Aerows]

24. We all have a right to know

Where we came from. If for nothing more than medical reasons. If you have a family that loves you, it's irrelevant, and the only thing that matters is that your family loves you unconditionally.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. I don't get the point of telling the child this.

It doesn't affect his life in any way, shape or form. I can get telling the story to people not directly involved, but not to a 15 year old kid. It has nothing to do with family love. I'm just interested to know the reasoning.

[Aerows]

30. I can only offer

a hug :hug:

[Gormy Cuss]

85. Just to give you a different perspective...

I learned a lot of unhappy truths about my family from my mother starting at about age 13. Unplanned pregnancies and the choices she made were the least of it. However, it's the secrets that I found out on my own that were far more damaging to me. I think the context matters a great deal, and if your relationship with the parent doing the telling is healthy then you can accept difficult information a bit easier, especially when it's part of an open discussion. The hidden stuff, mostly on my father's side of things, was always much harder to deal with because he just wouldn't talk about it until we were both much older. Having no way to ask questions, I was left to invent the back story and I tended to blame myself and my mother for things like my parents' divorce even though many years later my father made it clear to me that it was ALL on him.

So even though there was pain associated with all of those truths, the ones that were out in the open when I was a teen faded into the background while the hidden stuff still had the power to hurt for years.

[JoePhilly]

100. Exactly ...

The past is only scary if you don't actually know what happened.

And ... you can't learn from the past if no one will tell you what it was.

Much better to be honest with kids, as their maturity level allows. You don't have such a discussion with a 6 year old. And I would also agree than not all 15 year olds are mature enough for such a discussion.

He wanted to understand abortion. He had questions. His questions, initially, were abstract. In telling him the truth, I helped him understand that his life had been influenced by this "abstract" issue.

I think that's important for a teenage boy. I don't want him to think that the decision to have an abortion is just something that a girl deals with.

And again ... he was ready to have this discussion. Not all 15 year-olds would be.

[Aerows]

106. You are a good guy - you discuss things

That's what is necessary.

[JoePhilly]

97. It's not your decision ... this case was MY case ... and so ... I get to decide.

[uppityperson]

102. exactly. eom

[JoePhilly]

95. Thanks much.

[Aerows]

25. By the way

Knowing your mother loves you, despite the fact that she told you something awful, should make you respect her even more, even if you hated how she said it.

She clearly didn't mean it the way your 16 year old self took it, so why are you still acting like you are 16 years old now, like you first heard it?

It's not that it isn't hard, because it is. It's just that we all grow up, and then learn that maybe those that we think are perfect enough to not misspeak ... maybe misspeak sometimes.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. My mother's nuts. And, no, she meant it exactly the way she said it.

And no, when I first heard it she was dropping me off at work. I then spent 3 hours sobbing in the back room before I could gather myself together. As a parent myself, I have learned to think before I speak, when dealing with my children. Does my mother love me? The best way she can, but she would have been better off. Telling a child something like this is not to be respected. Sorry. :shrug:

[Aerows]

28. I'm truly sorry to hear that

I can't even fathom how that must feel. My experience was different than yours.

Doesn't mean that I don't care.

:hug:

[JoePhilly]

98. I agree ... I have no respect for what your mother said to you.

Having said that, what my son and I DISCUSSED, was totally appropriate.

I did not simply inform him of something, we actually had a long discussion about abortion, which actually began because he had questions on the topic.

That is much different that blurting it out as you drop a kid off for work or school

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SharonAnn]

88. His son may need tomake some decisions in the future. It helps to know

how our parents approached some decisions.

[JoePhilly]

99. Exactly ... I actually want him thinking about such things now ...

Not when he has 5 minutes to decide.

[JoePhilly]

94. I told him for a number of reasons .... but probably the main reason was ...

... he was asking questions about abortion.

He and I have been discussing politics, philosophy, psychology, human sexuality, etc ... since he was very young ... pre-teen even.

I've always treated all of our kids honestly, almost like adults, but with a smaller vocabulary and a shorter personal history for "context".

When you talk to kids, you need to be able to gauge what you say and how you say it relative to their maturity level. Not all kids are mature enough to have deep discussions on such issues.

At 15, my son was able to have such a discussion. And I already know that mt 12 year old daughter could have such a discussion NOW (we have not needed such a discussion, but she's more than ready) ... and my 10 year old daughter, well, I'll be surprised if she's mature enough for such a discussion at 18 (she still wants to pretend that Santa exists).

And so, my son did not experience any "harm" in this discussion. Far from it. At no time did I tell my son that we did not want him. At no time in his life has he thought .... "my mother apologized to me for having me, when she didn't really want children". Our son has never questioned our love for him, or our desire to have him. We've never given him a reason to doubt it.

And please don't take this the wrong way ... but I think that the concern you raised reflects lingering issues that you might still need to deal with. You mother told you something that you were not ready to hear. Your mother may have told you the truth, but it sounds like she told you a truth before you would be able to hear it.

Here's another related story.

I learned from my mother, when I was about 16, that she and my father got her pregnant before they were married, because my mother's parents didn't like my dad. And so my mother and father used her pregnancy (ME) to force their marrage. I suppose that I could have heard that as "they did not want ME, they just wanted to get married".

Does that sound familiar? That info could have screwed me up!!

But it didn't. I'm here.

And isn't that all that matters once you ARE here?

[femrap]

18. K and R a million times!!!! nt

[AngryOldDem]

29. I was in the same situation as your mom.

If it weren't for a D&C after a horrendous miscarriage, my two younger kids wouldn't be here, either, and I would most likely be in a far darker and colder locale.

I remember my sister having to have a D&C. She had the terribly poor judgment of going to a Catholic hospital, where she had to prove to their satisfaction that she wasn't pregnant.

I wish people would just butt the fuck out when discussing reproductive rights. They don't know everyone's story, and making blanket assumptions about things as some do is just plain wrong, hurtful, and (as you say) evil.

[Aerows]

32. My mother had a BAD miscarriage

and they wouldn't do anything for her until she got moved to a different hospital.

They were willing to let her die on the off-chance that there was a sign of life in her womb, despite the fact that my father said he could smell it outside the room as being dead, and my mother was going into full blown septic shock.

[AngryOldDem]

35. My God. She is indeed lucky.

I had my two older children in a Catholic hospital, but that was closed down when I went through the two miscarriages (had two within a year of each other -- the second nearly killed me). I just don't get their reasoning, other than they really don't care about the mother. Despite their protests to the contrary.

[Aerows]

41. She is lucky

I don't doubt it for minute.

[yardwork]

81. That sums up the attitude toward women among some extremists.

Women are not as important as their potential offspring. Period. Unfortunately, extremists who believe that that should be the law of the United States have a lot of power. They make up a disproportionate vote on the Supreme Court, for instance, compared to their actual numbers in our general population.

We have to stop letting religious extremists control our lives.

[RainDog]

31. thank you for making this an OP

your real-life circumstance demonstrates that this attempt to control female reproductive rights is a lie that those who are engaged in this hateful task tell themselves.

[Aerows]

34. It is, bluntly

And I've never shied away from stating things in blunt terms. Thank you for appreciating my efforts.

[Dont call me Shirley]

36. Mothers who do not want their children born is another winning argument for abortion.

[Aerows]

38. How about "mothers that can't bear the dead children"

"in their womb".

Do you prefer the alternative? Either way leads to "dead children".

[Still Blue in PDX]

43. Adoption can be a solution, too.

It isn't an easy choice and it's often overlooked as an option, but it does exist. I'm an adoptee, and I'm glad I'm here, but sometimes I wonder if abortion isn't easier for the birth mom.

Not that that has anything to do with this thread. Just pondering.

[Aerows]

45. Certainly it is an option!

And a great one.

This stems from a debate over whether women can actually have surgical procedures just because they might be or are pregnant.

[citizen blues]

83. All options should be available.

While adoption is an option, ALL options must be on the table. I'm adopted as is my domestic partner. We both have dealt with and are still dealing with the many issues surrounding family history, medical history, and identity. Adoption is not the utopia that some want you to believe it is.

In the case of my partner, he was born overseas and we now suspect his records may have been falsified and his adoption illegal. His adoptive parents are both deceased, but there is no evidence they knew anything about it. They simply believed what they were told.

In my case, I found my birthmother when I was 19 years old and learned that I am the product of rape. She still had never forgotten me, wanted to get to know me, and welcomed me with open arms. We had a good relationship for over 20 years until her death 5 years ago.

My adoptive family taught me a lot too. I was raised with a great-grandmother who had been born in 1882. When Roe vs. Wade came down, I saw my usually sweet grandma yelling at the tv, "Abortion is between a woman, her doctor, and God. And nobody else's business!" I was 11 and I've never, ever forgotten those words.

[Still Blue in PDX]

90. I know it is no utopia.

I could write a book about it. In fact, maybe it isn't too late to start one for Nanowrimo.* It's a subject I know from several different angles.

*http://www.nanowrimo.org/

[RainDog]

61. I really feel sorry for you

what a nasty, hateful mindset.

this person posts about her mother nearly dying because of religious bullshit and your response is to, basically, accuse her mother of murder.

I bet you think you're a good person, too.

[uppityperson]

103. If you don't want one, don't get one. But why cast judgement on others for what they do?

[ceile]

112. What are you babbling about?

Are you sure you're in the right place?

[eridani]

37. 50 years ago, my next door neighbor wasn't as lucky as your mom

The Catholic hospital just let her bleed to death, leaving her husband with two kids. Whenever I feel sorry for myself for having had three miscarriages, I remind myself how lucky I was that they all occurred after 1973.

[Aerows]

39. Well, I'm in my late 30's

In the South. It could have been me.

[Aerows]

40. By the way

I'm sorry to hear about your miscarriages. You are correct, at least it didn't cost you your life. It did for many women. I hope your life has been fulfilling and rich, otherwise

EDIT: I hope that wasn't inappropriate to say.

[eridani]

46. Yes, it has. After I concluded that kids just weren't going to be happening--

--I got on with a very busy and productive life. Adoption was never an option because hubby is too private a person to put up with all the investigation that agencies really have to do.

[Aerows]

48. I hope it will happen for you

If it doesn't, I'm sure you will make a difference anyway in several children's lives.

Still hope it will, though, and you will have rugrats of your own :)

It took my mom until she was 40. Yeah, I'm that much of a latebloomer.

[eridani]

49. Given that I'm 65, not likely. However, I am an aunt to many--

--ant that's worked out just fine.

[Aerows]

50. I'm sure it has

BIG :hug:

[Lorien]

57. I never understand WHY they think that allowing the fetus AND the mother to die

is somehow preferable to simply allowing the fetus to die. It's dead either way; why do they endorse capitol punishment a woman for a miscarriage?

[eridani]

62. Noam Chomsky makes the Mafia analogy

What good did invading Vietnam ever do anyone, given that there wasn't even any oil? The country was disobedient, and had successfully fought free of the French and Japanese imperial yokes. Even if it costs The Godfather money in the short run, he has to enforce obedience to maintain his profits in the long run.

Same analogy works with abortion. It doesn't matter to them that the fetus dies anyway--women must obey or die.

[Aerows]

42. A last thought

If I'm standing here, BECAUSE my family fought against religious/anti-abortion rhetoric, just because of the simple reason that they believed in family, how many else do, too?

[NMMNG]

47. K&R

I'll never understand the people who think they're defending life by denying women health care.

[Agony]

51. Kick

I keep thinking about McCamy Taylor's post --> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2150128

[Aerows]

53. Understand - this is the future they want for all of us

White, Black, Democratic, Republican, Christian, Atheist.

The easiest way to control a woman is through her children - whether she wanted them or not. The easiest way to control a man is through his pride, his offspring are included.

You aren't seeing anything new. It has been the model for centuries, and has been the model for colonialism of every culture under the sun.

Think I'm paranoid or an idiot? Look at how religion works, then get back to me. Study history.

EDIT: I only included "democratic" because they are starting to act like their colonial counterparts. If the shoe fits, wear it.

[varelse]

52. K&R

[laundry_queen]

55. K&R nt

[Suich]

56. Rachel talked about that "personhood" bill

on your ballot...what insanity! I hope it gets voted down.

Thanks for your thoughtful and very personal post. I have yet to find one person that wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, but, then, I live in a pretty blue area.


:hug:

[Aerows]

79. Even in "red" areas, there are "red"

people that think this is insanity. Haley Barbour, as much as I can't stand him, said he would probably veto it.

It's stupidity on a grand scale.

To paraphrase Dale Gribble on King of the Hill: That is the feces that is created when stupid eats too much stupid!

[NewJeffCT]

64. Great story, happy to be the 100th recommend on it

I'm sorry your mom had to go through that.

[myrna minx]

66. Thank you for your thoughtful post and

a :hug: to you and your mother.

[Aerows]

76. Thank you, Myrna Minx

Who are the men in your photo sig? I've always wondered. Forgive me if it is a cultural reference I don't know. I tend to be a little culturally out of the loop sometimes :)

[myrna minx]

93. These fellows are Tom Waits and Jim Jarmusch.

Tom Waits is a genius musician, singer, songwriter, poet, actor and performance artist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Waits

I'm adding this link, because it's a classic from the 1970's, but Waits is one of the most progressive artists around. He's always evolving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12qBoy2rhVw

Jim Jarmusch is a highly stylized film director who, for example directed Tom Waits, Roberto Benigni and John Lurie in the film Down By Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_by_Law_(film)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jarmusch

Waits and Jarmusch are also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sons_of_Lee_Marvin

:hi:

[mstinamotorcity]

67. The reason they have attacked a Women's Right

is to have a form of control. The conservative true Principle is Control. They have tried to make their fight about the sanctity of LIFE. It doesn't hold water. They are always too eager to engage in war. Which results in the loss of life. How do you be Pro-Life, and take this stance. Totally plain STUPID. Just doesn't make educated sense. What makes educated sense is that if you are Pro-Life, then CHOOSE that for your BODY. Which makes Pro-Sense and Pro-Choice the real OPTION. And Real Talk, all those ridiculous people who are advocating for all that silly legislation, would throw all that bullshit out the window if someone raped their twelve-year-old daughter and she became pregnant. They would have enough money to keep that little situation,under wraps. It would make the procedure costing a few hundred dollars (affordable), to thousands of dollars (not affordable for low-income women). Remember someone benefits from every piece of ridiculous legislation.

[Aerows]

69. You are absolutely right

This is a bid to make it profitable for someone. It certainly isn't about respect for life, or care for another human being.

[JerseygirlCT]

68. I wouldn't be here, either

Since my grandmother had a similar experience before she had my mother.

Fortunately, my grandfather fought for his wife.

You're right, it's obscene.

[Aerows]

70. Thank you for speaking up

More of us need to do so. Abortion is framed as this "it's birth control for evil, promiscuous women" debate, but many don't realize the consequence of law that says that a fertilized egg is sacrosanct.

[Frank Jameson]

73. I've never understood why they think life starts at conception n/t

[Aerows]

75. Science says so

They say.

They don't believe in science when it tells them about evolution, they don't believe in science when it tells them about global warming, they don't believe in science whenever it tells them anything, but they absolutely trust science on this one little "discovery" because it supports their beliefs.

Which, by the way, isn't scientific.

[Aerows]

74. I'd like to emphasize a point that the many who have posted in this thread

help me coalesce. I didn't expect that so many would give their own personal examples, and I thank you for helping this discussion. It's things like this that are all too easy to forget when we get into ideology and religion.

Life is precious. Much more precious than adhering to ideology, religion, or politics.

[bertman]

77. REC. Thank you. nt

[Aerows]

78. You are welcome

I hope it makes people think when they drift off on ideological tangents.

[yardwork]

80. Great OP. Thank you.

[Aerows]

87. You are welcome

When you can relate something to your own life, it makes it much easier to talk about it.

[nadine_mn]

84. Thank you for the OP - I don't get the notion

that somehow a woman's life is somehow less important than a fetus? How can anyone be pro-life and sentence a woman to death in the same breath?

But then the same so called "pro-lifers" are usually the same ones who would deny healthcare to all, increased social services to those in need - basically the stuff to KEEP you living a healthy life.

Its all about a baby being born and then basically "fuck it" attitude for the rest of its life.

[Aerows]

86. I honestly think it is the idea

That if there is money to go ANYWHERE, resources to go ANYWHERE, the "worthy" should get them. You aren't "worthy" if you need them in the first place, but on the off chance that you do, you don't have a "survival of the fittest mentality" because you aren't the "fittest".

The people with these views do NOT care about society, they only manipulate it as benefits them. Understand that, and you understand "Christian" conservatives.

[iris27]

92. "Fuck it" is exactly their attitude.

George Carlin nailed it.

"Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked.

Conservatives don't give a shit about you until you reach 'military age'. Then they think you are just fine. Just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers."

[Aerows]

107. George Carlin did get it. n/t

[Boudica the Lyoness]

89. I wouldn't be here either....

if my grandmother didn't have what some would call a late term abortion.

It was the 1920's in a tiny Welsh village. My nana was full term and trying to push out her first baby, but he was too big and stuck. Instead of letting mother and babe die together, the midwife injected something into the baby's head, killing him, then crushing his head to get him out. My granpa put his poor red headed son in a little box...my nana woke up too soon and saw it.

My nana went on to have two girls and the oldest is my mother. There are now many cousins..grandchildren..great grandchildren..all because the little red headed boy was killed to save my nana's life.

I had a taste of my grandmothers struggle when I was in labour. No matter how hard I pushed, I could not give birth to my first baby. He was too big and turned wrong. Lucky for me, it was 1975 and I was at a big city hospital. He was born by C section.

[Aerows]

105. Is this a joke?

If it is, it is in poor taste.

[Lars39]

111. The woman in the story received what she needed to preserve her life,

and to go on later to have more children. Very similar to your story. Sounds like the poster was relating an important family history to you.
Not in poor taste or a joke at all.

[Aerows]

113. I'm pretty sensitive to this subject

I made a snap judgment and discarded a similar opinion due to the language barrier. I was remiss.

And that was a good way to tell our stories.

[Lars39]

114. I understand.

Life and death decisions are hard to discuss. fwiw, my father felt compelled to corner every nun-nurse and doctor involved in my mom's care when she was delivering us. He simply told them that if there was a choice to be made as to who lived or died, it had better be the mother who lived. All turned out well, but I've often wondered what he would have done in his grief if they had made the wrong choice.

[Aerows]

116. I feel like a complete ass.

Sorry.

[Lars39]

119. ~

Aerows, did you mean to direct this post to Boudica the Lyoness instead? :hi:

[Aerows]

120. Yes

I did, indeed.

[Aerows]

117. Our right to even live is under assail here in MS

That doesn't excuse me being rude to someone that shared a personal story.

[Aerows]

115. I'm so sorry to hear it

It's a shame that my first response was that it wasn't real. It's so bad what we go through, at times, and I apologize that my defense mechanism came in.

I'm sorry I got on the defensive, your story DOES mirror mine.

I'm an ass.

[Aerows]

121. I apologize for coming off like an ass

Which I did, and thank you for sharing your story. It's never easy to share our history.

Don't know what to say except apologize.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. "My Body, My Business"

Think of all the ridiculous, wasteful, cruel and idiotic shit in our society--

from anti-choice nuttery, to the drug war, to would-be censorship-happy moralizing, to keeping terminally ill people from choosing a dignified, pain-free exit

--that we could avoid if we would merely hold true to this one simple concept.

[Dawson Leery]

101. Stay out of Catholic hospitals.

[Aerows]

109. If you live in Mississippi, you should vote NO on 26

This entire post is why.

[Aerows]

110. Get your vote on, MS :) n/t

[Aerows]

118. MS - get out and vote against this n/t