For those of you that do not understand the concept of Goebbels's Big Lie

[mmonk]

and think references to it are inappropriate, maybe this will help you:

here.

[snappyturtle]

1. Scary, isn't it? Why isn't that man in a prison? nt

[Tippy]

2. Excellent reminder

[RC]

3. The United States of Amnesia.

How soon we forget.
We did nothing to stop our war criminals and so they are are still trying to destroy this country.

[global1]

4. Never Forget.......

that they told us lies, lies and more lies. As I watch this video now I realize how glad I am that these criminals are no longer in office. I only wish that they would be made to pay for these lies. It is these people that left us in the mess we are in today.

[postulater]

5. But that's looking backward!

Can't do that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. No offense but it's Goebbels.

[mmonk]

7. Thanks.

None taken.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. I wish there was some place to put this in an on-line library where we can

continually refer to.

[mmonk]

11. Good idea.

Of course some groups did a study and came to the conclusion the Bush Administration issued 935 false statements concerning all this.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. What shocks me is that eight years after the fact, now that some

of his old supporters are coming to grips with what a fuck up it was, they're resorting to lame excuses we dismissed years ago.

"Well, there were WMD, because he killed the Kurds."

Yes, I said. But they killed the kurds with the weapons we gave Sadaam. We already knew about those.

That's why I liked the video tape. It clearly shows that Bush, Condi, all of them were talking about Sadaam ACQUIRING WMDs or nuclear bombs.

Fine distinction.

[OnyxCollie]

9. Iraq on the Record.

The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq
http://downingstreetmemo.com/docs/iraq_on_the_record.pdf

[robcon]

10. Cohen has trivialized Hitler. He should be condemned on DU.

n/t

[mmonk]

12. So Goebbels big lie concept can only apply to Hitler and not to

anyone or anything else no matter how and by who the concept is used?

[Forkboy]

15. At least you're consistent.

[dionysus]

27. nice post Hitler.

;)

[Forkboy]

36. LOL

:hi:

[JDPriestly]

21. Watch the video that mmonk linked to and then come back

Watch the whole video. Watch Condoleeza Rice and the rest of them lie over and over. Watch how Condoleeza Rice shakes her head "no" and looks very uncomfortable while she lies.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. So, you're the person in charge of the Official Party Opinion Edicts?

[H2O Man]

28. Respectfully disagree.

[cali]

13. I think the comparison is apt.... and counterproductive

it focuses the conversation, inevitably and in a negative way, on he/she who made the comparison. too bad, but that's the way it is and no, it's not going to be changed.

[H2O Man]

14. I think the comparison is apt and productive.

Recommended.

[cali]

18. how is it productive?

[H2O Man]

25. In this way:

I'm not big on setting either the truly great or truly evil persons/acts of history aside. I don't do, for example, stained-glass Jesus. Nor do I think it is appropriate to view Hitler as distinct from the other evil folks. I look at all people as part of the mountain of humanity, and all of their actions as part of human history.

In his book "The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness," Erich Fromm uses Hitler, Stalin, and even Goebbels histories to illustrate the negative potential that is found in human beings in modern society. This includes describing the tactics that they used to achieve their goals. I consider that a far more mature and intellectual approach than saying anyone is so good or bad, that their examples are somehow inappropriate to illustrate how other figures resemble them in their make-up and in their actions.

[cali]

30. I understand your pov, however

your perception on this is not one that's common and my original comment, is still true: The conversation gets diverted from the act/person(s) being criticized to the person making the comment. Of course, you're right that the pov you assume, is more mature, but I never said that the comparison isn't apt- in fact, I stated that is indeed apt, but not productive. There's a distinction between the two.

[tex-wyo-dem]

31. Cali - although I agree that looking back in history is not...

Always "productive," it is often of value. The value here is to not forget how we were lied to -- to take our country into war. History, most certainly, repeats itself.

Never forget and don't let it happen again...that, to me, is of extreme value.

[Major Hogwash]

32. A lot of what it has to do with is the manner of how the lies were spread, by mass communication.

In Germany, the first thing they did was start running the newspapers, all of the newspapers.
No editorials were allowed to be printed against Hitler.
Later, their Congress outlawed public criticism of the President, or der Fuhrer, in their case.
The radio network that was in place was overtaken by the party.
Totally taken over, no discouraging word was heard on the ranges in their homeland.

Updated today with a compliant and willing 24 hour a day, 7 day a week television channel.
That was oft-quoted by news reporters who worked for "over the air" tv channels, such as CBS, NBC, and ABC.

The lies sometimes originated from the blogosphere.
And then leaked onto a Hannity's radio program.
Who would repeat the lie on the Fox News channel, on his program.
And from there the lie was quoted in the Washington Times.
Who were quoted by the New York Times.
And then NBC quoted the NYT.

Nobody did any background work, just quoted each other.

It was easy enough to follow, but the entire national network of news -- as we knew it then -- was polluted with bullshit and propaganda.

[H2O Man]

34. I recognize the

validity of your point. And I know, of course, that you didn't say the comparison was not apt.

In a sense, our positions are the two sides of a coin. Your focus is on the undeniable fact that the level of communication in society (and too often, even on DU) is very low indeed. My focus is on the equally undeniable fact that in order to progress, we much bring discussions to that higher level of understanding -- for people are only able to act on their level of understanding. Hence, we witness sludge like Beck and Palin pushing the level of public discourse even lower -- which I suppose highlights the points that we each are making.

[Johonny]

35. Oddly it's only non-productive because conservative made it so

Their constant comparing of things to NAZI Germany has rendered such comparisons basically political noise. There was a time and place when NAZI Germany was more on Americans minds and talking about political lying as a means to gain power, particularly lies that scapegoat certain sectors of the population (Republicans lies generally scapegoat the poor) were understood by the public.

However in a climate where such arguments as "Hilter was a vegetarian, vegetarians are thus NAZIs" exist, it's really hard to use NAZI Germany examples.

I don't however agree with Rachel Maddows "that nothing compares to the holocaust". There are a lot of political genocides in history and I think holocaust victims want all them pointed out. For example the Hutu political scapegoating and ultimate genocide of the Tutsi in Rwanda is clearly like the holocaust. Thus Maddow's off hand statement last night was just as unproductive. I don't think all Jews think the Holocaust isn't comparable to anything else, heck they know the NAZI holocaust isn't even the first time such genocide happened to them in Europe.

[bemildred]

16. "We're an empire now, and we make our own reality" is precisely what Goebbels was talking about. nt

[H2O Man]

26. Right ....

though I would add: "And severely punish any who question our definition of reality."

[femrap]

17. K and R

I'm physically ill from watching that...but I will bookmark so to never forget the concept of Goebbels's Big Lie.

Thank you for the link.

[JDPriestly]

19. mmonk, incredible video. I had not seen it.

Based on my viewing of it, I would say that, in my opinion, Condoleeza Rice is not a trustworthy person. She makes a statement and shakes her head "No" all the while. And at one point, Rumsfeld admits that the inspectors did not find WMDs and he doubts that the US will either.

And all those assurances about how our treasury deficits for the war would be paid for by sales of Iraqi oil.

Why don't we keep confronting the Republicans in Congress about those promises?

It's because of the costs of that war that we grew such a deficit during the Bush years. And some of the so-called Obama deficit, in fact a lot of it, is due to the horrible economic destruction that Republican War inflicted on our treasury.

[mmonk]

29. Thanks.

I agree.

[Enthusiast]

20. K&R nt

[old mark]

24. K&R-Lies, support of the right wing rich, intimidation and violence by government

thugs...the GOP and the Nazi Party...no real difference.


mark

[EFerrari]

33. And the Republicans use this as a strategy, it wasn't only Bush.

This is what Palin's stump speech did:

Tell McCain to End the Politics of Hate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5mdIPNB8t8