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Through privatization America now meets the criteria used by FDR as Fascism

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 12:54 PM
Original message
Poll question: Through privatization America now meets the criteria used by FDR as Fascism
"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence is Fascism-ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power."
Franklin Delano Roosevelt

The fascism we live under is not totalitarian, yet.

Agree, disagree or don't give a shit anymore?

Comments are encouraged.
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. I call it corproate occupation
It will continue and flourish as long as the perception of its presence and reality is managed well. Well, long enough until the management is no longer necessary and the velvet glove comes off to reveal the iron fist, that is.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is tinfoil hat stuff
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Why do you say that?
Do you think it is impossible?

Do you think we fail to meet the fourteen points?

Do you think the country is insufficiently right and corporate?

Why do you say that?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. What 14 points? FDR made it plain as the current fascism via privatization we have. n/t
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. These 14 points
My comment was addressed to the poster who called your OP "tinfoil hat."

14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

NOTE: The above 14 Points was written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).

Does any of this sound familiar? As America sinks deeper and deeper into corporate greed will this country continue to be a democracy by the people and for the people or will it be ruled by the few? Will the trinity of money, power and greed over come one of the greatest countries in the world? Only we, the people, can keep it free. SPEAK OUT AND LET YOUR THOUGHTS BE KNOWN...ONLY BY SILENCE WILL WE BE DEFEATED!
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. The 14 points popular in GWB's presidency were designed to pick
14 similarities between GWB's presidency and facism. It was working backwords.

Obviously we have some problems with the consolidation of corporate power, the loss of the regulatory state (although it is making a small comeback under Obama) and of course the trampling of civil liberties (which Obama is doing little about). That said, I'm not sure Fascism actually works just yet; I think we are possibly on the road there, but I don't think we are there yet.

Bryant
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's not totalitarian, I concur. n/t
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. What do you base that statement on?
"The 14 points popular in GWB's presidency were designed to pick 14 similarities between GWB's presidency and facism."

The 14 Points by Lawrence Britt were published in 2004, but he cites sources on fascism going back to the 1960s. These we all being discussed in my college studies during the Reagan and Clinton years and we see it continuing in the Obama administration. Britt just summed it up nicely in 2004. You can't say those points only applied to Bush. I think we've "been there" for at least 30 years.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Based on my understanding of fascism
I think that Britt looks at in a fairly narrow way, ignoring some aspects of fascism because they don't fit his template.

Bryant
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. FDR was, in fact the target of real conspiracies-including a coup. n/t
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Really?
Are you suggesting that the OP is wearing a tin-foil hat? I believe that is a violation of the DU rule against name calling, isn't it?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. You question President Roosevelt's comments as tinfoil?
:+
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. LOL!
:rofl:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. There were coup and assassination plots against FDR-neocons and their allies are determined to
destroy what they have been programmed to believe is "socialism" brought about by the policies of FDR combined with all their usual RW invocations to their gods of war, hatred and fear.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree
Thanks for the thread, bobthedrummer.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I thank Franklin Delano Roosevelt for many things well worth fighting for.
:thumbsup:
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. Agree - and surprised that this definition of fascism is not used more often.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yep-it's elegant and an accurate description of what is all around US today n/t
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. bttt
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. K & R! And I absolutely agree.
That slippery slope gets steeper every decade.
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. That slippery slope gets steeper almost by the day
Things are worse than a great many DUers are willing to admit-- in fact, some are in full-bore denial.

We have very little time to turn things around. Quite possibly not enough to reclaim the Democratic Party. Possibly not enough to prevent economic catastrophe. It is certainly time to think very seriously about how to resist and how to survive so as to be able to resist.

Everyone seems to be waiting for that one big event that makes it "really" fascism, failing to see that there won't be any big event. We're getting there bit by tiny little bit. By the time some people admit to themselves that it is fascism, it will be far too late.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. beer and travel money is due
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. "This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper"
One of America's greatest poets didn't know how right he really was. Then again, I look at what's happening in Egypt right now and sometimes think, "Could that happen here?"
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Yes it could
If you had asked the democracy agitators in Egypt one month ago whether what is happening today was possible in Egypt, they would have told you "not in the foreseeable future". History is littered with illustrations of this: uprisings happen suddenly, and surprise even those that create them.

America could explode tomorrow. Certainly the circumstances exist for such an explosion. You would have to be blind and deaf not to know about the anger ordinary citizens harbor towards the banksters and their political enablers. Then again, America could explode next week, next year, several years from now, or go quietly down the road towards fascism without a peep, at least until the nation rots out from within and utterly collapses amidst shortages of essential goods and environmental catastrophe. Uprisings and revolutions are inherently unpredictable as far as timing goes, though the signs of a failed system that must end in massive reform, revolution, or collapse are easy enough to identify. Something massive must happen to this country, and must happen much sooner than probably even I would guess, but what and when is beyond anyone's ability to predict.

I know this board is chock full of deniers who, no doubt from a position of relative privilege, insist that everything is fine, and all our problems will be solved, and besides I must be some dirty hippy tinfoil hat Marxist Leninist yearning for a repeat of the '60's (for the record, no, I'm not-- I'm a homebound disabled person of no political dogma (though with a strong background in history) who sees the writing on the wall for people like me). But for those us us who can recognize the patterns and crunch the numbers and who know that redemption or cataclysm is just around the corner, I think it's very important to watch what is happening in Egypt, learn from it, and start putting the lessons into action. Because of all the possibilities, the one we have the most control over, and which leads to the least destructive outcome, is that of a peaceful uprising to institute massive change.

I say "uprising" rather than revolution because I think our issue is so much not our form of government but the sociopathic forces that have purchased it. The Constitution needs tweaking, not shredding, but the tweaks that it needs are major and urgent and they cannot happen from within that bought and paid for system. Whether we get those changes through forcing massive reform or through a process that amounts to a revolution is unimportant, so long as those changes occur.

I admit to be looking around the net right now, to see if I can find others who are watching Egypt and "taking notes". I'm not looking for the usual crowd of self-styled Che Gueveras, because I don't think anything will come from that element except a lot of teen angst and opportunities to offend the general public. Nor am I looking for the usual crew of leftists who produce the usual permitted and well-behaved ineffectual Washington DC protests. I'm looking for the reasonable people who realize we face a crisis and who are looking at Egypt as a template. I know they're out there. I see bits here and there which indicate that I'm not the only one thinking we need our own Tahrir (and Alexandria, and etc., in every corner of this country, just as their protests are nationwide). I suspect one reason I have not found anything coalescing quite yet is-- lets face it-- Americans know our government is watching us, and we know our government doesn't play nice. We're afraid, afraid of cops who stop at nothing, even murder, judges who stretch the law to the breaking point to turn peaceful demonstrators into "terrorists" (peaceful demonstrations, even semi-spontaneous unpermitted demonstrations, are legal-- on paper), and a legal system that is guaranteed to convict anyone without money irrespective of guilt. In short, it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between our "free" nation and an authoritarian regime.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. There's a lot of plain truth in your post Oak2004, that continues to be denied here, there, and
everywhere.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
24. We are there.
The state of the media is the leading indicator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG6MBkgf_hY
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
26. ^
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
29. Since this is not a "totalitarian" form of fascism is this democratic fascism?
Edited on Tue Feb-08-11 04:05 PM by Better Believe It
If people want to figure out what fascism is they ought to study it seriously rather than just toss around the terms fascism and Nazis at anything that is either reactionary and/or corporate.

Here's a test of whether or not we have fascism in America.

Is Democratic Underground really functioning underground and is Skinner in prison?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Citizens United pretty much made the corporate fascism official, didn't it? Your DU analogy is
meaningless to me. The New Democrats (corporatists) are here, as are other tbtf supporting factions-btw, I ask you Better Believe It what is Tombstoning all about anyway, in your opinion??
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-11 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. ^^^^
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