What would Jesus cut?

[bobbolink]

Since this is about actual ACTION, rather than just empty words, I am posting this in its entirety, which is what Sojourners wants. (note to mods....this is NOT violating copyright.. they want this shared!)

https://secure3.convio.net/sojo/site/Donation2?idb=609567025&df_id=2300&2300.donation=form1

It would be nice of some of you would actually participate. The BOLD is mine.

Dear Bobbolink,

People of faith across the nation are defending the poor, but we still need you to join.
We’re just 127 gifts away from being able to send a “What Would Jesus Cut?” bracelet to every member of Congress. We’ll send one to you too, but you need to act quickly because supplies are limited. Give now!

We’re also within 80% of funds needed to run an ad campaign -- a full-page ad in Politico, a newspaper directed at our elected officials.

This message, “What Would Jesus Cut?” is resonating! Newspapers in major cities, USA Today, and the Religion News Service have echoed our message. Bread for the World and Christian Community Development Association have just signed on as partners.

In the end, our goal is not just to run an ad campaign and send some bracelets. Our goal is to defend the poor -- the cuts proposed in the federal budget process are life-threatening in some cases.

We know that you share our commitment to advocating for the poor and challenging the church to minister on behalf of those in need. Your gift today is essential to the success of our prophetic call to consider, “What Would Jesus Cut?”

This is a moment when our nation needs Sojourners’ voice:
To challenge elected officials and the administration to remember their moral priorities when they vote on the budget.

To support church leaders with resources like our Lenten study guide on a moral economy and the upcoming clergy conference call sharing best practices for engaging your church on economic values.
To encourage all people of faith to examine ourselves and our own choices and priorities, and test our own lives by the love of Christ.

Last week we heard from many of our readers: A mother who is caring for her ill adult daughter, preschool-age granddaughter, and husband, and who is now worried about her electricity being cut off. Another mom -- a single mom -- working two jobs to support her four children and yet feeling alienated by the church. An elderly couple wondering whether or not they could afford anything beyond a chicken neck for dinner. We know that if we added the stories you and those in your community experience, this email would get quite long.

Today, will you chip in to defend the poor in our midst? Your gift of any size is critical. We are so close to our goal, but our movement is made of individuals across the country and the world, so we turn to you for help.
Let’s do this together!

[kentuck]

1. First of all...

He would cut the wars.

Then he would tax the wealthy.

Then he would feed and shelter the poor.

Then he would enlighten the country spiritually.

Then we would kill him and hang him on a cross...

[bobbolink]

3. I think you got the program, although not necessarily in that order.

I don't think he would keep letting people die in poverty while waiting for the wars to end. He's just not as neglectful as "progressives" in that way.

[kentuck]

6. But don't you think he would stop the killing...?

...before he fed the hungry?

And don't you think he would need the money saved from the wars to help others?

[bobbolink]

11. I'm not interested in how many angels dance on the head of a damned pin.

I AM interested in "progressives" getting off the damned dime and stopping the suffering and death IN THIS COUNTRY.

It really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

[kentuck]

18. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass...

I'm saying we need to stop these wars and tax the wealthy so we can feed and take care of our own. If we spend it all on wars, we have nothing. That is all.

[bobbolink]

21. That's the program you've been running now for over a decade,, and

the people in your country are suffering and dying.

Maybe it is time to finally have some mercy, and rethink your old position.

[kentuck]

26. Can you explain?

Please?

[bobbolink]

29. I'm not interested in being diverted on this important topic. It is easy to understand, if you wish

to.

Angels on heads of pins.... vs..... suffering people.

All it takes is a bit of heart.

Thank you, now please take the angels debate elsewhere.

[kentuck]

30. Sorry.

:-(

[maryf]

13. He'd stop death however he could, including from hunger

I think, but his advocacy for the poor was his main stance...Matthew 25:

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

[bobbolink]

23. You are exactly correct...... that was his main focus.

In fact, Jim Wallis of Sojourners, which is running this campaign, as a seminary student, cut out all the references to POVERTY in the bible, and it was left in tatters (still on display as I understand it.)

But, you see, "peace people" don't want to get that.

It would mean the painful rearranging of some neurons. And seeing their fellow countrypeople as humans, the same as they are.

[roguevalley]

34. there are two debates going on here. right now, it is to help move

the dorks in congress. Jesus would expect us to do right and to do it even if it hurts us. The other argument is for another thread. This one is about the donations.

[sad sally]

86. Matthew was a tax collector before he became a disciple for Jesus

where he learned the hardships he'd imposed on others.

[leftstreet]

2. "You are currently logged in as Bobbie"

You probably need to log out and post a new link in case anyone decides to donate

[bobbolink]

4. Thank you! I don't understand these internet tubes.

:silly:

[maryf]

5. a blank form comes up now.nt

[leftstreet]

8. Ah! Thanks for fixing it

:-)

[maryf]

16. I didn't fix it, just clicked and it was blank!

:)

[bobbolink]

9. Yeah, the blank reflects my true soul better than a name.

:silly:

Thanks for checking it!

I'm sure there will be no shortage of DUers now letting me know how stupid they consider me.... just chalk it up to being a stooooopid homeless person.

[maryf]

17. Send em my way...

if they dare say anything!

[Autumn]

25. I think you are smarter than a lot

people here. As for your soul being blank, I don't believe that for a minute. You seem to be a very compassionate and kind soul.

[bobbolink]

28. Thank you, Autumn! That means more than you know!

:pals:

I take a lot of beating here....

As someone said on another thread, people who speak the reality are subject to being attacked. I sent them this quotation, from today's Sojo:

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."
- Flannery O'Connor

I think that would be a good daily meditaion!

[maryf]

7. K&R

Thanks Bobbie!! :yourock:

[Populist_Prole]

10. I like questions like these that make fundies squirm

Then again, many are utterly oblivious to the hypocrisy.

Does anyone ever notice how many drivers in cars sporting "WWJD" bumper stickers and "fish" badges are rude aggressive road-raging bastards?

Grammatical edit.

[bobbolink]

14. Those of us who went to hear Tony Campolo speak just before the Dem Convention in Denver gave him

thunderous, standing ovations for the story he told about teaching in a seminary:

One morning he came in and loudly proclaimed, "Do you know that while you were asleep last night, (x number) of thousands of people died of starvation?"

He was met by silence.

"What pisses me off is that you don't give a shit!!"

"And what REALLY makes me mad is that you are now more upset that I said "shit" than you are that thousands of people died from hunger!!"

THAT was a moment to behold! He had us stamping our feet, and cheering! He doesn't suffer poverty gladly.

[Populist_Prole]

33. I like that! Good way to make an abstraction real. n/t

[socialist_n_TN]

12. Great framing of the issue.........

I'll be using it.

[bobbolink]

15. Yes, that is a talent of theirs. Given that this is a community of long standing, which publishes

a magazine now for many, many years, they have practice in how to push the right buttons. :hi:

They will be pleased to know you are quoting them.... why don't you send them an email and let them know that? :)

[socialist_n_TN]

19. I will. Although now that I think about it........

It IS OK to use that right?

[bobbolink]

27. Absolutely! Sojo would thank you!

If you're feeling generous, give them credit for the line... they would appreciate it.

And, so do I... thank you for running with this! I loook forward to seeing the ad they are planning!

[white_wolf]

20. Well for starters:

He would pass Single payer health care. He would end the wars. He would tax the rich and use that money to take care of the poor and help them get jobs so they wouldn't be poor anymore. He would build decent quality homes for those who needed them. And after all this the Repubicans would call him an "anti-Amurikan commie lover" and he would likely tell them to all go to hell literally.

[bobbolink]

31. "Jesus never demanded proof of insurance"

:rofl: :hi:

I think you are on the right track!


Thanks! :yourock:

[WatsonT]

22. I hate this line of logic

"What would a middle-eastern carpenter who died 2000 years ago have to say about NAFTA, or space exploration, or our taxes, or . . . "

How about asking what modern experts in those fields have to say, rather than someone whose main claim to fame was in not being crucified all the way.

[bobbolink]

32. you have the riight to hate anything you wish. I would certainly hope you have enough heart

to take action to stop these damned cuts!

[white_wolf]

36. I get your point.

However Jesus is one of the most influential men in the history of the world and like it or not for a lot of people his words carry more weight than any number of experts, so why not show the Fundies that they are on the wrong side and that Jesus would be a progressive today and not a neo-con. I'm not saying we shouldn't listen to experts because we should, but we should use any weapon at our disposal.

[WatsonT]

38. I get that

but the problem with that reasoning is that even if it works in this case (a longshot) it only serves to establish religions place in government. You can hardly argue "Jesus opposes these cuts" one year, then the next year say "I don't care what Jesus thought about abortion/gay marriage/religion in school/etc you can't mix religion and politics!" It's a short term gain (maybe) for a long term loss.

[white_wolf]

39. True I never thought of that.

I guess the only time I would use the "Jesus" argument is when a conservative brings up their family values bullshit just to shut them up about how God is on their side.

[bobbolink]

40. This is a group of Christians, speaking from their beliefs.

It is a powerful message to other Christians.

Because I don't see any atheists caring about poor folk, or lifting ONE FINGER to do anything to stop the cuts, this is a very important message to me.

You are welcome to start a movement of non-Christians on behalf of poor people.

But speaking against this because you don't like the Christian message is one more shot against poor people, and you can't expect me NOT to call you on it.

Again, start a movement more to you liking, and get some action going on behalf of POOR PEOPLE!

[darkstar3]

48. Oh joy,

another pusher of the idea that charity in the US only comes from Christians.

Have a read: http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Charities

[bobbolink]

53. Actually, this is about JUSTICE, but I can understand your confusion.

With all that hatred towards religion, it is easy to miss the truth.

[darkstar3]

55. Oh, really? Because I thought it was about you swinging a broad brush.

And I quote, from you: "Because I don't see any atheists caring about poor folk"

Bullshit. See my link.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[darkstar3]

61. Demonstrably false. See the link.

Also, ponder the fact that many clergy members, not to mention church laypeople, have been documented as closet atheists who refuse to reveal their lack of belief because doing so would destroy their careers or social lives. Atheists are involved with helping the poor all over the world, bobbo, and the only hate evident here is that which you have brought.

[bobbolink]

63. CHARITY is NOT JUSTICE... the link *I* provided is about justice.

We don't want any damned charity from haters.

None of you are doing one bit about the cuts now coming down on poor people... you are only interested in bashing Christians, and promoting the muddleclass. The facade is falling off.

[darkstar3]

65. WOW.

"We don't want any damned charity from haters."

Firstly, you're making quite an assumption based on what is clearly projection on your part. Secondly, folks in a position to receive charity rarely care where it comes from. Thirdly, I don't believe the concepts of charity and hate go together, so I really think you're never going to get charity from "haters".

Finally, charity for the poor is one part of justice for the poor. Have a coke and a smile and calm the fuck down.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[darkstar3]

68. I'm not a lawyer.

I'll let the lawyers worry about fighting cuts, and I'll let the charities worry about providing necessities for the poor. I will worry about funding them with my donations. In the meantime, I will continue to vote for progressive people and causes in the hopes that in the future, instead of fighting over cutting programs, we can live in a country where charity is unnecessary.

As for your hateful assumptions, your shouting, and your clear disregard for anyone who isn't a Christian, you might get a little introspective today and ponder the possibility that these are reasons for atheist posters here to express displeasure with you.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

72. Yes, it is only LAWYERS who could take action against the cuts.

Poor liberals couldn't bring themselves to care that much.

[bobbolink]

73. Charity is what people do to gain superiority and power over others.

It makes them feel in control and powerful.

[Oak2004]

80. Do you understand the difference between justice and charity?

Justice empowers the recipient. Charity keeps the recipient a beggar, albeit one with a fleetingly fuller belly.

When I was homeless I hated when people were temporarily nice to me (a few days of housing, a little food, etc). There's a kind of hardness one develops on the streets-- indeed, that one needs in order to cope and survive. Temporary niceness (i.e., charity) was just enough to sabotage that hardness, without changing my circumstances. Returning to hunger or to outdoor living after a bit of charity was, for a few days, just like ending up homeless for the very first time. I'd rather people have kept their pseudo-kindness to themselves.

Justice and charity are not companions. They are opposites

[bobbolink]

82. You have said this very, very well, and I wish that people would listen and learn.

Thank you for your eloquence... you have given a very important and clear view, which will enlighten those who choose to hear.

I appreciate your courage in sharing the pain you have gone through... you have given us a gift.

:yourock: :pals:

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Upton]

66. Hatred from athiests?

The only real attitude around here is coming from you...and you call yourself a Christian don't you?

[bobbolink]

70. YEs, have you missed all the hateful posts about Christians....?

Lumping all Christians together, and denigrating anyone who expressing having faith?

You missed all of those? Now calling in reinforcements?

Shame.

[SidDithers]

49. Great post...

:thumbsup:

Sid

[Crystal Clarity]

51. The problem here is that you are confusing

the words and deeds of fundie rw christians with the words and deeds of liberal christians. It is the right wing fundies who propose religion in schools and who try to prevent gay marriage as well as abortion.

Liberal christians of the Sojourners variety focus on the same types of social justice that liberal non-christians want. Furthermore Sojo-type liberal christians emphasis tolerance of other pov's instead of trying to legislate morality as the fundies do.

'Morality' to liberal christians means something more internal, NOT external (ie. worrying about what others are doing). In fact trying to define what is and is not 'moral' relative to other people is abhorrent to liberal christians because it means passing judgment on others... something Christ explicitly demonstrated when he stopped an angry mob of 'religious' zealots preparing to stone to death a person they deemed to be a 'sinner' when He said, "May he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Equating what fundie Christians espouse to that of liberal christians is like mixing the proverbial apples and oranges. BTW you won't see liberal christians tying to "establish their place in government". Neither the OP or the person you responded to w/that comment ever hinted at that. The OP is about a message to be sent to people in government as private citizens on behalf of the poor and destitute whose voices are being drowned out by monied interests.

[bobbolink]

54. They're not confusing anything. They just like any opportunity to express hatred that is considered

acceptable on DU, and to hell with poor people.. the other group they have no concern for.

There is no confusion at all,..... it has been explained to them many, many times.

[WatsonT]

76. Yes, opposing a move towards theocracy is the same thing as hating the poor

:eyes:

[bobbolink]

85. What a cute little strawman. As some of you keep saying, you can't fix stupid.

[darkstar3]

59. Very good point.

As anyone should know by now thanks to the sheer volume of Jesus-centric groups that fall all over the political map, Jesus and the Bible can be used to rationalize just about any political position. With that knowledge, and the knowledge that it is hypocritical to bank on Jesus one day and try to remove him from the conversation the next, it is clear that trying to inject Jesus into social and political issues can easily do more harm than good.

Good post.

[Rex]

24. Cut!? Jesus would have the angels butcher us all and tell God to start over.

God likes 'do overs' and we had our turn.

[Starry Messenger]

35. k&r

[OneGrassRoot]

37. K&R n/t

[rocktivity]

41. Jesus--isn't he the guy who beat up on

dishonest money changers?

:headbang:
rocktivity

[bobbolink]

42. One and the same.

Today he would be sent to anger management classes.

:rofl:

[Raksha]

43. K & R

[maryf]

44. k nt

[bobbolink]

45. .

:kick:

[bobbolink]

46. kick for a full-page ad

[Dragonfli]

47. The way he taught anf led I'd say he'd cut Help for the "most "of us and give to the least of us

He cared about the lives of the poor and suffering he found around him, concentrated on feeding them, healing them, and from his speeches to his owm muddle class I'd say he was trying to get them to help cloth and feed them as well (many "did not have ears to hear", just like today.)

He did not appear to be enamored of the rich, he even appeared to loathe them a bit.

The most Christ like man I ever met was a Druid, make of that what you will.
It is good to know there are still some cristians that pay attention to him and continue his work.

For those with eyes let them see
for those with ears let them hear

[bobbolink]

60. Yes, there are few in the muddleclass with eyes to see and ears to hear.

They are so besotted with themselves that they discount the rest of us, then whine because they can no longer count on our votes.

What a pity.

[SidDithers]

50. So much for separation of Church and State...nt

Sid

[Dragonfli]

52. Kick for the self-proclaimed "Christians" that worship Calvin

You should see what real Christians are doing.

Also, any who would try to oppose life threatening cuts, even if only to pretend to care - HELP THEM

[darkstar3]

69. Putting sugar on their porridge?

[SidDithers]

74. ...

:thumbsup:

Sid

[bobbolink]

75. YEs, the Calvinists have a strong hold on the US psyche. And that includes many more than those

who call themselves "Christians".... just look at all the liberals wanting to stop any use of food stamps for any items they don't approve.

Sheer Calvinism.

[TheKentuckian]

56. Resource occupations and welfare for moneychangers to start, I'd reckon.

[MaeScott]

58. K and R. nt

[Obamanaut]

77. Sending bracelets to members of congress? At what cost per bracelet? Could

those same dollars have been spent on loaves of bread and fishes to feed the multitudes?

[bobbolink]

83. Thank you for digging as hard as you can to find something to criticise.

I really appreciate you illustrating exactly what arrogance we are up against.

[DailyGrind51]

78. Defense! "Put away your sword! He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword!"

[SkyDaddy7]

79. I have to say, "What a pleasant thing to see!"

Christianity being used politically to help the needy, poor, disabled & the working class!

Wonder how far it will go?

The Republicans have full control over what most CHRISTIANS THAT VOTE think Jesus was for! According to Republicans Jesus was for stock piling wealth, war, torture & an utter disdain for the needy.

Would be nice to see this actually change some Christians minds.

I am an Atheist & it has always puzzled me how "Christians" have allowed their religion to be used in the way it is being used in America...It will be a huge task to convince the CHRISTIANS WHO VOTE to actually consider what Jesus actually said rather than what Republicans have taught them to THINK.

Good Luck!!

[bobbolink]

81. I value your words so much, and really appreciate you posting!

Thanks for understanding, and I respect *your* beliefs.

You have made my day, and I hope you see this response before it dries up. It is so rare to be able to have thhis kind of respectful exchange, and it should be the most common thing in a place like this, shouldn't it?

:yourock:

[notesdev]

84. Jesus did make a cut

first thing he did when he got to the Temple was throw the bankers out

something to think about