Boy, 8, Arrested Over School Tantrums Orlando Teachers Had Deputies Arrest Boy 5 Times

[trumad]

ORLANDO, Fla. -- An 8-year-old boy was arrested earlier this week after being accused of running from teachers at school, throwing sticks and injuring one of them.

School administrators on Tuesday called the Orange County Sheriff's Office, who arrested the special education student and charged him with battery. It's the fifth time since November that he has been arrested after being accused of fighting with teachers at the school, but according to police reports, none of the teachers suffered serious injuries.

The public defender's office said deputies came to Riverside Elementary on Tuesday for the child's latest attack on teachers. The child now has a mug shot and a rap sheet.

Parents at the school wonder why.

"That's terrible," said Connie Dewitt. "I'd be distraught. Arrested? They're just kids. Somebody else should be doing something about it. The school should be doing something. There should definitely be something in place to help the child."
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/26990289/detail.html

[rocktivity]

1. If he's sick and too dangerous to be in a normal school setting

put in him a medical setting, not jail!

:headbang:
rocktivity

[aikoaiko]

3. True, but sometimes you have to adjudicate a kid in order to get him the help he needs in our system

Its fooked.

[rocktivity]

4. The very fact that he's a special education student

indicates that he's been evaluated and diagnosed with something. Obviously, that diagnosis didn't go far enough.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. That is an educational diagnosis

Schools aren't doctors. We can't diagnosis medical or psychiatric conditions. This child is obviously suffering from something much worse than an educational diagnosis would reveal.

[Demeter]

2. That's This Society's Way of Dealing With Non-Conformity

My disabled daughter threatens me with the police every time I do something she doesn't approve of. Wonder where she got that idea?

[LWolf]

8. I don't think this situation has anything to do with nonconformity.

This sounds to me like the student needs a different setting; that the standard classroom setting can't help him, and that there aren't supports for the teacher in place.

My state has county schools set up to help students with severe behavior issues and social disabilities learn how to function with others. It includes very small groups of students, many adults, intensive individual and family therapy, safe rooms, many outlets for self-expression as children learn to express themselves in a way that is safe to those around them, AND academics. Students are gradually transitioned back into their local district schools, a little at a time, as they gain the personal skills they need to function there. I have extensive experience working with the adults and students there; their success rate is very high.

I'm assuming that this school does not have a resource like that available to them, or they would already be using it. Or they have it, but it's underfunded and there is a waiting list.

I could be wrong, of course; assumptions often are. Having worked in public education for 27 years, though, my experience tells me that this is about a teacher, school, district, county, and/or state without adequate resources to provide this student with the setting, structure, and program needed.

[WatsonT]

50. Injuring others goes beyond simple "non-conformity"

It's not like they called the cops on the kid for drawing a yellow barn instead of red barn.

[Tatiana]

5. This kid probably needs to be educated in a residential treatment facility.

There's no reason to put staff and other students at risk of injury if the environment is not conducive to learning for the boy.

I don't see the point in arresting him. If he's special education, he has an IEP and this behavior is probably a manifestation of his disability. I'm not entirely sure I believe the mom when she says he doesn't display any of those behaviors at home.

[HereSince1628]

12. There are a myriad of things that could be considered that's certainly one of them

My feeling is the court should assign a guardian to make sure the kid gets a proper assessment. Maybe not remove the child from the family.

But the family setting and the child's out of school contexts need evaluation as much as the child. A number of disorders can lead to aggressive and violent behavior, often by age 12. Home environment and parenting can be significant factors in the development of those disorders. But social workers and psychotherapists would uncover that only after an expert assessment determined there was reason to initiate intervention.

As strange as it sounds people, including children, are usually trying to solve a problem through their behavior. Sometime a person's behavioral repertoire is truncated and defaults to tantrums when other behavioral choices aren't easily accessible. Prior to real resolution of the childs inappropriate behavior, someone must ask and get preliminary answers for 1) What is the problem this child is trying to solve? and 2) Why does the child so often choose violent means as solutions?

[Demeter]

35. Well, I Do

Because I had the same issue with my daughter's school.

They don't know how to deal with "different" kids, they don't want to learn how, they don't want to take a hint from the parents, and they don't give a care.

Fortunately, we found a specialist who had 30 years' useful experience in public schools and then went out on her own as a tutor. My daughter's made amazing progress since...and getting out of that hellhole of a "special Ed." dept made all the difference in the world.

[backscatter712]

6. If the kid's really causing so many problems, there are far better ways to manage it.

Worst case scenario, get the kid to a psychologist, get him some treatment, rather than arresting him.

[d_r]

7. hitting teachers with sticks?

Teachers in Florida can hit children with sticks, and that is perfectly legal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. No serious injuries so they should just let him continue injuring teachers??

He's obviously a very sick little boy. But justifying his behavior by saying the injuries weren't serious is ridiculous.

I'd like to know where his parents are. Why is the school being criticized and there is no mention of his parents in the article? They are his guardians and responsible for getting him help. Blaming the school is not going to help this child.

[MadHound]

11. I can see why this arrest happened,

Along with several other arrests of kids in the school.

Years and decades ago, teachers and school administrators were allowed much wider latitude in what they could do with and to students. For the most part, this worked out alright. However abuses did occur and attitudes changed. Over the decades we have gone from a teacher spanking a child to the point where now the cops are being called in on eight year olds. Why, litigation. For better or worse, probably some of both, parents have successfully litigated schools, administrators and teachers to the point where they can't hardly lay a hand on a student without bringing down a lawsuit by the little darling's parents.

That's why the cops are called, it is the schools doing CYA. Whereas forty years ago a teacher my size would pick up this eight year old and hold him immobile until he calmed down, now, since we can be sued within an inch of our lives, teachers are reduced to either talking, screaming, pleading with the kid, or calling the cops.

Yes, this kid should have been removed from this classroom long ago, but then again, that too is a long, complicated process, one that can be mucked up by parents at every turn. Mom says here little darling doesn't do this at home, fine. But perhaps she doesn't want to except that her little darling isn't an angel at school. If this is the case, a parent can hold up changes to a child's IEP for a long, long time.

This is how we arrive at this point, where cops are arresting kids. Perhaps if we put some more authority behind in loco parentis, and shielded teachers from a lot of frivolous lawsuits, then we won't be seeing so many cops at school.

Naa, that's not going to happen.

[Demeter]

37. I Sure Hope You Aren't a Parent

and I offer sympathy to any children who interact with you.

Who is the adult in this situation? And what did the adults do? Think about it.

[MadHound]

38. Well gee, that's a nice broadbrush smear.

Tell you what, why don't you name some specifics about what you disagree with, then perhaps we can clear some air here.

[msongs]

13. deceptive title = only adminstrators can have kids arrested, not teachers nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. Not entirely true

School in MD had a special ed student who had been mainstreamed. He was attacking other students and finally fixated on a particular teacher. Admin did nothing after several attacks, fearing a parent lawsuit. Finally another teacher got it on camera. Targeted teacher filed independently of the school. had the student arrested and also got a restraining order against the student. Principal was seriously displeased, but when it got to the superintendent, he agreed with the teacher (and her union rep) that the principal had not done enough to protect the teacher and students.

I am not for arresting the special ed students with behavior issues, but fear of litigation was placing others at risk. The Parents were in control of the situation and they were refusing to do anything or accept any changes. Something had to be done.

[msanthrope]

14. It's simple--the school administrators have decided to get rid of this kid.

Look, no school calls the police 5 times on one student without there being a prior agreement among the school administrators that this is how this child will be handled.

The kid is special ed, which means that the school cannot get 'rid' of him as they would another student. Why? Because he has a diagnosis, and is protected under state and federal law. So they are building a case of arrests and reports in order to force a child services intervention. (Because I bet they've already tried child services, and they don't have 'enough' to intervene yet.)

Then, the child will be taken from them--either incarcerated, or otherwise adjudicated into the system. And that school will no longer have to spend any money for his care--nor deal with parents who want to talk about his care.

If I were the parents, I would get a lawyer.

[MadHound]

15. Or it could be that this kid is simply inappropriately placed in the school,

The truth of the matter is that not all kids belong in a normal school setting. They are either not having their needs met, or they are a danger to themselves or others. If I were a parent of one of the kids this student was chasing around the classroom, I would be pissed to high heaven and want this kid removed from this school immediately.

Furthermore, due to litigous parents, teachers and administrators can do very little to corral this kid. They can't lay a hand on a kid without a lawsuit resulting, so their options are to either try and talk the kid down, which hasn't worked, or use the police to actually come in and physically corral the kid.

Ideally what there should be is a public school facility that meet the needs of this kid, one separate from the general school population. But due to school funding cuts, there isn't.

[msanthrope]

16. Well, he's not 'inappropriately placed.'

If he's special ed, then he already has had a crap-load of testing, including an IEP that has placed him at the school. The school/district cannot have it both ways---they cannot deem a child 'special ed' and then send him to the school, only to then decide that he is 'inappropriately placed.'

And corporal punishment is still legal in the majority of the Florida counties. As a poster above noted, if it is legal for the child to be hit with a stick by a teacher, why can't the kid hit back?

[Rebubula]

17. Were the teachers hitting the student?

Teaching is a hard enough job without students attacking you. Unless these teachers were hitting this child, your point is moot.

Some special needs kids are a joy to work with (just like normal kids - bring on the people offended by the use of the word 'normal') and are angry and violent (like normal kids). The ones that are violent need to be segregated - Period. Sympathy for someone's disability should not extend to the point that you place people in harm's way in order to feel 'fair'.

[MadHound]

18. First of all, the appropriateness of any student placement is a fluid thing,

Children grow, situations change, and what was once appropriate for the child is now inappropriate. IEP's can be changed, placements can be changed, etc. If this kid is chasing other students around the classroom, as stated, then it sounds like he is inappropriately placed.

And while corporate punishment might still be legal, that still won't stop a lot of parents from suing if you dare to lay a hand on their precious little child, even if only to restrain a kid from hitting somebody. The authority of teachers and administrators has been severely eroded due to this. Do I believe in corporal punishment, no. But I do believe that a teacher or administrator should have the ability to restrain a student who is violent. If you don't allow school personnel that basic right, then this is what results, the cops being called in every time the kid acts out violently in order to protect faculty, students and staff.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. In many cases schools cannot discipline special ed students

At the school I discussed above the students and their parents were told that not only were other students not allowed to defend themselves, striking back would be considered an attack on a special ed student and result in automatic expulsion. At least one student did fight back but the school was unable to identify who defended themselves. The special ed student's parents were very angry, but the staff on playground duty said they did not see it.

[MadHound]

30. Not just special ed students, any student

If you are a teacher and see a fight break out, there are few options that have anymore. If you wade in to break up a fight, you risk a lawsuit. If you try to physically restrain a student, in a manner that does not cause pain, then you risk a lawsuit. Hell, even if you touch a student, you can risk a lawsuit.

While I admit that there were and are teachers out there who have gone way to far, the fact of the matter is that our over-litigious society has basically hamstrung our teachers when it comes to maintaining order and discipline in our schools.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. If a regular students attacks another, it is easy to get him expelled

You really cannot do that with a special ed student. Without permission of their parents there is damn little you can do. That is why they are bringing in the police...to force the parents, via the courts if necessary, to allow a change in the student's educational circumstances.

[MadHound]

42. It is easier to get him or her expelled, but it is never easy.

That may vary from state to state, but I know in a lot of states the school has to jump through a whole series of time consuming hoops before they can actually expel a student.

That still doesn't mitigate the fact that as a teacher, if I step into the middle of fight between two kids in order to either physically separate them, or to restrain one or the other, I am taking my own fortune into my hands, and if they've got a litigious minded parent, I could be in deep shit, even if I didn't muss a single hair on their heads.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

44. No argument about the risk

One of the things I find so disheartening is the claims by some that rank and file teachers do not care about students. They do, but their hands are tied from taking constructive action in many situations.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Yet inclusion is the name of the game

It's close to impossible to get kids in settings other than general ed.

I could tell stories that would shock even you.

[MadHound]

24. Oh, I recognize that inclusion is the name of the game,

And for the most part, I agree with it. However there are certain kids that simply shouldn't be in a mainstream school setting. However so many legal barriers have been set up to oppose that that we wind up with these situations, a kid who is a danger to himself and others still being placed in inappropriate situations.

Worse, we have stripped teachers and administrators of so much authority that they cannot even restrain kids who are a danger to themselves or others, thus the cops get called in. I don't agree with arresting six year olds, but there are generally few, if any, other legal alternatives.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. And privacy laws keep those of us who can tell the stories from telling the stories

I'll shut up now :)

[MadHound]

36. Yeah, I'm not going there,

But let's just say one special ed student made my life a living hell for the first half of my student teaching internship. Luckily she wasn't acting out in just my classroom, but throughout the entire school. She was eventually moved to a more appropriate setting within the school and things worked out well, for for a couple of months there, damn.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Undoubtedly they already have one

There are parents who refuse to recognize the problems their children have and insist they be mainstreamed. The schools and staff have little say in the matter and are practically banned from any form of discipline. When the school gets an child who is actively harming others, unless the parents will work with them, their hands are tied. What they have to do is document and then bring in the police. If it has gotten to this level, part of the responsibility lies with the parents.

[yellowcanine]

28. Well I am sure the parents, school, local law enforcement etc. have a better idea than what we do

about how this should be handled. So I am for letting the local folks handle it and not being buttinskis.

[ThomCat]

47. Yes, I bet you are right. Few schools really have good Special Ed.

And few schools want to bother to have good special ed. They don't want to spend the resources.

So when they suddenly have a kid who needs some help or services they can't provide, they just don't. And when the kid is constantly bored and ignored because of it, all day every day, and will of course act out eventually because of constant boredom, they throw the book at that kid.

The kid is blamed for everything, because the school never accepts responsibility for anything. Until they force that parent to pull that kid out of the school. Of course, they'll insist that getting rid of that kid was Never their intent. Oh no, they always provided first rate Special Ed, and they always wanted to that kid there. Of course they did. :eyes:

Yes, I have seen this several times. It usually takes the threat of a lawsuit, or changing schools, or a hell of a lot of parent intervention from numerous parents who all have the same kinds of complaints before something like this changes.

[olegramps]

19. Where would the teachers turn to except the police?

It is a sad situation and the child definitely needs some special attention. I can only hope that he obtaining it before it is too late to influence his behavior. It appears be a drastic measure, but I don't know what his parents are doing to help him.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. My hunch

Parents are either in denial and or have done nothing to get him help.

Schools are out of options with kids like this. Sometimes involving law enforcement is the only option.

Sad story all around.

[Dappleganger]

26. Schools are out of options because it was planned that way.

More $$ for prisons (and private prisons if they get their way here).

BTW, the schools didn't plan this--the republicons here in FL do!

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Kinda sorta

I understand what you are saying and I agree. HOWEVER, this kid is sick. He needs MEDICAL care. Schools can't provide that. Any blame here belongs to his parents. But you'll notice they aren't even mentioned in the linked story.

Just another avenue to bash schools and teachers. No need for more information! (I'm being sarcastic. Just getting sick of these stories posted here.)

[JVS]

32. They are mentioned.

They say he doesn't act like this at home.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I want to know what the parents have done to help their child

That is not mentioned in the story. Sorry I wasn't clear enough in my post.

[Dappleganger]

40. Quite true--they took away mental help for kids and grownups like him

so now they are wandering the streets victimizing people, then get thrown into prison and victimize each other rather than getting the help they need.

Just trying to bash who is at FAULT--the corporate republicans and democrats!

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. Yes but the parents also have a responsibility here

[Dappleganger]

45. Parents with no help you mean?

Many parents can't do it on their own.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. We don't know that, though, do we?

I work with kids whose parents are largely working poor. Many have no insurance. But we can ALWAYS find community resources for them to access. The ones who haven't found help for their troubled children have not tried to find help.

[etherealtruth]

48. "Parents are either in denial and or have done nothing to get him help"

An other option: sometimes "help" doesn't work ... or it takes a long time to find the correct balance of treatments (including drugs). Prescribing psychiatric drugs and achieving effect is a true art.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. In the linked article,

Mom says he doesnt act like this at home. So I doubt she's gotten any help for her child.

[JVS]

27. "chasing other students around the classroom threatening to kill them."

Ok, send him to the alternative school. Our kids and teachers deserve better than to be exposed to this kid's bullshit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. That only works if there is an alternative school

I am in a rather large district and we have no alternative school for elementary kids. Most districts don't have them - except for a few high school kids.

[Dappleganger]

41. There are few alternative schools here FL.

There are some but not enough. Most of them are for high school as you stated.

[zen_bohemian]

49. well, the other kids are there to learn, and the teacher is there to teach those who want to learn

I re-read the article. Is this kid a special ed student in a normal classroom setting? If he is, he needs to be taken out of that classroom. He is hurting the teachers and he is scaring the other kids, this is not the environment for him, and the other students have the right to come to a classroom that is safe and they are there to learn, not to be scared or threatened. This mother needs parenting skills, I find it hard to believe this child acts like an angel at home and saves all this aggression for school, she is in denial.

If one of my kids was in this classroom, I would be pretty mad about now especially if he was threatening my kid, and either ask for my kid to be moved to another classroom, or would ask for the kid to be put in a setting more conducive to his learning style/experience, obviously he is not doing well in this classroom.

[DRoseDARs]

51. In 4th grade we had a kid like this flip out one day; we called the janitor to haul his ass to...

...the principal's office until his parents could come and pick him up.