WIND is cheaper than NUCLEAR. DOE Chart 2011. End of discussion (at least for reasoned intellects)

[grahamhgreen]

[Warren DeMontague]

1. Yeah, you just want to force everyone to wear patchouli and listen to Jerry Garcia.

Hippie.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grahamhgreen]

3. Whatever.

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. +1

Cheers!

DOes that chart even graph all of costs associated with a plant failure like the Fukushima plant? Long term storage costs for spent fuel etc.?

[grahamhgreen]

10. No disasters. Not sure about nuke waste storage.

[Motown_Johnny]

5. Some things are black and white. Pointing that out shouldn't be looked down upon

It would make more sense to me to point out that wind power is not power on demand. Electricity is generated when the conditions allow for it to be generated. Nuclear power can be generated on demand (assuming all goes well).


I will agree that on this point the cost alone should not end the discussion but I disagree that there are not facts that can end an argument.



I hope this does not make me sound like I support nuclear power, I don't. I would much rather deal with wind, solar and hydro along with natural gas (for the foreseeable future) than build one more nuclear plant.

[grahamhgreen]

14. “Opponents of renewable energy, from the coal and nuclear industries and from NIMBY

(Not In My Backyard) groups, are disseminating the fallacy that renewable energy cannot provide baseload power to substitute for coal-fired electricity."

The refutation of the fallacy has the following key logical steps:

• With or without renewable energy, there is no such thing as a perfectly reliable power station or electricity generating system.

• Electricity grids are already designed to handle variability in both demand and supply. To do this, they have different types of power station (base-load, intermediate-load and peak-load) and reserve power stations.

• Some renewable electricity sources (e.g. bioenergy, solar thermal electricity and geothermal ) have identical variability to coal-fired power stations and so they are base-load. They can be integrated without any additional back-up, as can efficient energy use.

• Other renewable electricity sources (e.g. wind, solar without storage, and run-of-river hydro ) have different kinds of variability from coal-fired power stations and so have to be considered separately.

• Wind power provides a third source of variability to be integrated into a system that already has to balance a variable conventional supply against a variable demand.

• The variability of small amounts of wind power in a grid is indistinguishable from variations in demand. Therefore, existing peak-load plant and reserve plant can handle small amounts of wind power at negligible extra cost.

• For large amounts of wind power connected to the grid from several geographically dispersed wind farms, total wind power generally varies smoothly and therefore cannot be described accurately as ‘intermittent’. Thus, the variability of large-scale dispersed wind power is unlike that of a single wind turbine."

MORE - http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/myth-of-baseload.html

[Warren DeMontague]

6. The folks who ended the discussion were the numbnuts who have consistently cut safey corners to save

$.

They sank any future Nuclear Power might have had. Buh Bye.

[BrookBrew]

8. I would not bet on that.

Once reality sinks in china will continue with its ap1000's and so will the existing jobs right here in the US.

You will see more Natural Gas, because it is cheaper, for now. But hey that carbon goes somewhere.

[BrookBrew]

7. So how many thousands of megawatts would be needed in NYC and surrounding 60 miles

and how many turbines would be needed to power this area... When the wind was actually blowing.

Does burning natural gas emit CO?

A shitty old datsun is cheaper than a peterbuilt but you cant hall a transfer trailer with the datsun.

[grahamhgreen]

9. About 10 Gwh or 25% of Germany's present solar and wind output, I believe.

[BrookBrew]

12. seems low for NYC , North Jersey, and CT but

how does germany generate base load? to power trains and factories at night or on windless days?

[SidDithers]

11. And coal is cheaper than both...

:shrug:

Sid

[grahamhgreen]

13. So we can take nukes off the table, right?