The Michael Vick Rant.

[Safetykitten]

It is not about "HE PAID HIS DEBT!!!!"

First if you are a fan of his, just come out and say the obvious. Nothing, NOTHING he could do would cause you to pause and throw up on your MV Jersey. Nothing. That is a stone cold FACT! Look at all the pictures, look at the horror inflicted on those dogs and then start the bullshit. Becuase it is bullshit!

Kill someone? Pay your debt.
Rape? Pay your debt....oh wait a moment. People who rape are sick people. People who rape have serious problems. How many rapists you want as a cubicle mate? Or,invite to dinner with the family? None? Why not? They PAID THEIR DEBT.

Why not? Becuase some crimes show the sickness of the individual that is inherent in them. Some crimes like rape show that the person guilty of it maybe just maybe should be watched closer after PAYING THEIR DEBT.

Michael Vick is a sick fuck. Congrats President Obama, you just became MV's parole officer.

[PBS Poll-435]

1. .

:popcorn:

[rucky]

2. What should be the proper punishment for him?

[Safetykitten]

3. What are the proper rewards?

[rucky]

6. You first.

[Safetykitten]

10. Not playing that game. Not the John Stewart game.

[rucky]

12. You'll only say what's not acceptable

but you won't say what would be acceptable?

[Safetykitten]

14. Rights and wrongs dude. It's that simple.

[rucky]

30. Crime and punishment.

It is simple. Let's not turn it into a gray area.

[Safetykitten]

36. So what pedophile or rapist that PAID THEIR DEBT will you be having as a house guest?

[rucky]

52. Let me check my Megan's list.

I'll get back to you.

[JoePhilly]

208. Weak argument.

Unless you equate dog fighting with rape and pedophilia, which I would disagree with. The motives of the people involved are totally different.

1) Dog fighting is a learned behavior, much like Bull fighting, or even hunting. In some cultures, children are TAUGHT to do it. Rape, and pedophilia are not a LEARNED behaviors. No one teaches you those. Those behaviors are much more about the control of one human over another human. The individual drives it.

2) Dog fighting, bull fighting, and hunting are (sadly) SOCIAL events. These are taught as forms of RECREATION. Rape and Pedophilia are not social events in any way.

The need for control over other people, when it manifests in rape and pedophilia, is not a learned behavior, and as a result "unlearning it" is far more difficult.

But there are lots of people who were taught to hunt, and unlearned it. Taught that bull fighting was a sport. Taught that dog fighting was a sport. Taught that cock fighting was a sport. And learning the truth, they stopped.

[Name removed]

275. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluestate10]

305. Correct Joephilly. In some cultures, dog fighting and cock fighting

are not only accepted, but are cultural events that draw large crowds. The activities are inhumane and deserve to be banned in civilized societies. But to equate what Vick did with human rape and pedophilia goes way over the edge. Some of the same people making that equivalence defend Julian Assange virulently, even as Assange fails to discuss sexual assault accusations with appropriate authorities.

[Safetykitten]

308. Rapists, pedophiles and surely people that have done what Vick did are damaged.

So you can parse out in little pockets of the degree of disgust according to yourself.

[niyad]

320. so you don't think that a society that basically condones rape is TEACHING it?

a society that blames rape on the victim isn't TEACHING people that it is an acceptable behaviour? a society that does not believe the victim, that punishes that victim, you don't think that society is TEACHING that rape is acceptable?

how about a church that allows and condones pedophilia, that blames the victims, that does nothing to the perps, you don't think that church is TEACHING that pedophilia is acceptable?

[bluestate10]

303. A person that was found to have abused animals is NOT a rapist.

The moral equivalents that some animal lovers arrive at when a person is found to have mistreated animals is startling.

Michael Vick is a pampered jock who did not see the wisdom in being humane to dogs. He was caught, convicted and paid in money and loss of respect. Michael Vick is not a pedophile. While I don't accept Michael Vick being in the presence of animals without another person present, I would not accept having a convicted pedophile in the presence of any child, even if an army was watching that person. A person making the equivalence of Vick's crime to the crime of pedophilia disgusts me.

[Safetykitten]

307. Disgust away. Pedophiles AND torturers are sick people.

The comparison stands.

[niyad]

321. so what do you think about the rape stands that were part of the abuse of those poor dogs?

[Withywindle]

322. Google "sexual abuse of animals"

Or don't. If you don't want to, I don't blame you. But yeah, some animal abusers ARE rapists--at the same time.

I disagree with your basic premise that being humane to dogs requires "wisdom." It doesn't. It only requires empathy.

I don't believe that there is a tall concrete wall between dogfighting and pedophilia. I don't think they're the same either--I see them on a spectrum, and people who do either have much more in common with each other than either group does with people who do neither.

[cleanhippie]

356. Oh look, another strawman.

You must own a wheat field or something.

[treestar]

378. What game? It is a valid question.

If his prison term is not enough, what is?

[cleanhippie]

353. There is no reward. Thats a strawman agrgument.

He is not being rewarded, there is no reward. You obviously do not approve of the punishment that was handed down to him. So what should it have been? What would satify your need for vengeance?

[TBF]

5. Put him in the room with those dogs and let them decide. nt

[rucky]

8. One vote for death and/or maiming.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

23. They'd probably lick him to death.

Here's a video of one of Vick's vicious prize fighters, post-rescue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_tGJKbkqok

And those poor beagles used as bait -- who knows what they'd do to him.

[TBF]

32. You know you're probably right - dogs are very forgiving.

Certainly much more forgiving than I'd be.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

42. You got that right. (n/t)

[niyad]

25. that is a brilliant idea

[KoKo]

221. What I can't get over is that if those Dogs were Women or Men treated by Vick that Way

He would have probably gotten a Life Sentence and not ever be looking at millions in his lifetime again.

As "Keepers of our Earth and supporters of humanity towards fellow humans and animalkind" why should we allow the kind of treatment Vick Did to his Dogs...using them for SPORT/CRUELTY...beyond stomach for many of us...?

If Vick was convicted of "Cruelty to Animals," then what might his "personal life" involve? Should one promote GAMEING for ANIMALS?

After all the WAll Street BANKSTERS invoked CRUELTY ON AMERICANS that will last for decades. Should both Vick and the Wall Street Banksters and the Regulatory Agencies and the Criminal Senators who held Clinton's Arms against his Bank to Sign into Law the Policies of Reagan Bush that lead to this CRIME against Average American Citizens?

Who deserves Blame? It seems the Criminals are let off with "Hand Taps," "Serve the Minimum in Exclusive Jail Time," BUT! we BAIL OUT Wall Street Banksters who ran SCREAMING WITH HAIR ON FIRE...to get BAILOUTS just before the 2008 Election! Which Groups or Individuals have greatest Credibility in both Repug and Democratic Presidencies? Michael Vick (MEGA SPORT FRANCHISE) and BANKSTERS like Goldman-Sachs, Bank of America, Wells-Fargo and the Creme of the Creme "CITI BANK" get the good stuff from American Taxpayers.

Michael VICK is no different in preferential treatment for the RICH/FAMOUS who are the GLADIATORS of IMPERIAL ROME........!

ALL IS GOOD.......

WHEN DOES THIS STOP..?

[cleanhippie]

354. But they werent .

Another strawman argument. Well done.

[adigal]

273. They wouldn't do anything to him but lick him

Pits are very very good with people, generally. They have to be, as their sick asshole handlers have to go into the ring when they are fighting and retrieve them.

No, Vick needs another breed, one that doesn't really like people. Hmmmm...would have to be another human, since dogs are not sick assholes like Vick.

[butterfly77]

351. Here you go...

RIVERSIDE, Calif. -- Charges have been dropped against a young mother whose baby son lost his testicles in a dog attack.

Carrie Rae McKinney was charged with felony child endangerment back in April after her 6-month-old son was mutilated by a friend's pit bull mix in Riverside County.

But at McKinney's preliminary hearing last Friday, Judge Dennis McConaghy dismissed the case, calling the attack a terrible accident.

"I don't see a crime here," he said.

According to court records, the 23-year-old San Diego woman was visiting a friend in Murrieta on April 3 when she left her http://www.ktla.com/news/landing


http://www.associatedcontent.com/topic/23647/pit_bull.html

mother was in her garage; holding her four month old infant; in her arms when the neighbor's 80 pounds pit bull wandered in and viciously went for the infant. The mother did everything in her power to protect the
baby from the animal as the dog tried to tear the child from her arms. She moved around and from side to side trying to block the baby's view from the dog. The animal kept coming; and it was only after the baby.

To farther protect the child, the mother put the baby in a near by trash can and used her body moving from side to side to block off the charging dog, who was after her little baby. In an attempt to get the infant, the vicious dog bit the mother over and over again on the arms. Through pain and bites the brave and courageous mother fought to protect her child.

She never gave up. In the struggle, the trash can, was knocked over and the little baby rolled out. Like a true mother trying to protect her child, this mother was only thinking about the safety of her baby, when she threw herself on top of the infant, while she received more painful bites from the dangerous and vicious dog.

Two men, working near by, heard the screams and grabbed heavy working tools and ran to assist the screaming mother. Then, they saw the pit bull, its mouth covered with blood.

[adigal]

372. It pitbulls were as nasty as Yorkies or Chihuahas

there would be dead kids strewn across the country every day. Yes, one goes crazy once in a while, but you are taking one story and painting a whole breed with that story. It is illogical. Small dogs are much nastier and bite more often than any pit. And the only dog who ever bit one of my kids was a Golden Retriever owned by my brother. So I guess Golden Retrievers should be banned.

[butterfly77]

374. Lol

:rofl: You've got to be kidding,I could give you more. Remember this http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=video&cd=9&ved=0CHAQtwIwCA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D6941069842844016914&rct=j&q=pit%20bull%20attacks%20mail%20carrier%20bites%20breast&ei=QpcaTdW8FYKUnQffqfjqDQ&usg=AFQjCNEnXqczx7xtTDbAxHtCO0TQwwonvw&sig2=vYLnUS32dVa_vUZZ7e1OyA&cad=rja

[LanternWaste]

17. What should have been the proper treatment for his dogs under his care...?

One question is just as valid and just as relevant as the other. :shrug:


ed: sp

[niyad]

40. you are joking, right? the ANIMALS DID NOTHING WRONG, so to equate their treatment with his

is so much bs.

[rucky]

48. That what he was convicted for.

The question was asked and answered in court. So was mine. He probably deserved a harsher sentence, but he didn't get one. Either this, or going back to the NFL is making people say that justice has not been served - and it wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

So what should he have gotten?

[niyad]

83. what should he have gotten? how about some of the same treatment he gave those poor, defenseless

dogs? oh wait, under geneva, that would be cruel and unusual punishment.

[adigal]

274. It is his fans who should be ashamed of themselves

Our society welcomes him back because he can play football. He should be in jail for decades. He is a sick a-hole. He has that blood lust, he will do it again. He may not run a fighting ring again, but he will seek it out and get caught AGAIN!! And all those people who are defending him will realize that they were fooled - AGAIN.

PT Barnum was right - there is a sucker born every minute.

[northernlights]

50. iI's not about punishment. It's about redemption and atonement.

It's about Vick acknowledging what he did and dedicated his life to making up for it. Not by being the best football player on earth, but by dedicated his life to helping dogs to make up for the torture and suffering he inflicted on countless dogs. That means contributing to their welfare in any way that he can, in any way that he is allowed.

Not once has he asked about the fate of his dogs, or their welfare or well-being, never mind contributed to their rehabilitation. Only if Best Friends would put in a good word for him.

All we've heard from Vick and his apologists are "poor guy lost his career," "poor guy, not allowed to have dogs any more," "poor guy lost all his millions."

Self-pity is NOT the road to redemption.
Ignoring your victims is NOT the road to redemption.

He claims to love dogs. And his daughters upset because they can't have a dog. How about if instead of whining about it, he volunteers at a local shelter off season. Doing the lowliest of the low jobs, cleaning shit, if that's all they'll allow him to do? Maybe in time they'll let him work his way up to actually be permitted to touch one.

In the meantime, he needs to shut the fuck up and grow the fuck up. He has proven himself by his behavior to be a sick, perverted sadistic sociopathic narcissist. Until he stops whining about how hard it all is for him, and starts demonstrating honest sorrow over the suffering he inflicted and demonstrating a real interest in making up for it, he will continue to be a sick, perverted, sadistic, sociopathic narcissist.

[rucky]

59. One vote for volunteering at a shelter.

Countered by a vote for never having him near another dog again.

I'd like to see him make a huge donation to Best Friends. They're an awesome organization.

[northernlights]

67. I understand your feelings and share them somewhat

but if he were truly sorry, I'd have no problem having him allowed to clean kennels (supervised, of course) until his dying days.

And yes, contributions to Best Friends would be a good thing too. Also to the other rescue that took in half his dogs, but didn't get the attention that Best Friends has gotten.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

144. Bad Rap.

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/vick/

In case anyone wants to donate or is available to volunteer...

[adigal]

276. I do dog rescue, and a pit has a 1 in 600 chance of getting out of shelter

599 of them are killed in the shelters. And they are sweet dogs.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

299. So sad.

I'm not in a position to adopt a dog right now, but when ready, I'm absolutely considering a pit bull. Another of Vick's rescued dogs:



Monster.

[TBF]

89. I'd like to hear him actually admit what he did, in detail, and I'd like to hear him

admit he was wrong. Both of those things, to date, have never happened to the best of my knowledge.

[niyad]

63. wish I could rec this as well

[Critters2]

76. +1 nt

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

112. + 1000 n/t

[flvegan]

134. +100000

[Vattel]

295. wow, talk about nailing it

[astonamous]

331. Vick looks like he loves the dog he is holding in this picture.

I wonder what this dog's fate was...

[femrap]

85. Rabies? nt

[Eric Condon]

235. Easy

He should be forced to donate 100% of his football salary to the ASPCA, retroactive to the first dollar he ever made playing football. He should bust his ass to earn that money and live penniless for his troubles. He can work as a fucking Wal-Mart greeter in the offseason if he wants money to eat.

[eridani]

335. Another question. Can people change?

I think that except for a minority of hard-cor sociopaths, they can.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

4. I wish the president hadn't said anything about Vick. DUers' heads are about to explode!!

Dude, they already hate you, why give them more ammunition to accuse you of now supporting a dog killer? :wtf:

[Safetykitten]

7. His polling showed it was a win- win.

[onehandle]

9. Somebody in the White House is advising the President very poorly. nt

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[femrap]

95. WTH did Obama

say? Damn it....maybe he should decline a 2nd term and become a Color Commentator for a variety of sports?

There an injury out there on the football field waiting for Vick.

[butterfly77]

I don't like football

I didn't know who he was until this issue came up,but I don't give a damn why is he any different from any other persons who have dog fights,cock fights,pig and pit bull fight,etc...

He served his time Good he got his job back. I get so tired of hearing people lose their damn mind about dogs,but they don't raise a ruckus about all of these children being found murdered and young women its and epidemic.

[TexasObserver]

309. Yes, it's very telling, isn't it?

I don't understand people who have a vile need for vengeance, and there's nothing progressive about the lust for revenge.

Dog fighting is learned behavior, and it can be unlearned.

[meow mix]

13. he committed horrific, unimaginable crimes.. im sick of the soft coating it gets from the media

"operating a dog-fighting circle" barely begins to label what was done.

serious strike for obama in my view, plz find a non-psychopath to admire? wtf

[LanternWaste]

15. I'd love to disagree with you...

I'd love to disagree with you, but I can't.

I think fandom prevents many of us from recognizing crocodile tears and false contrition.

I began my boycott of the NFL the day it was announced he was signed. Not missing it as much as I'd thought... :P

[MrScorpio]

16. Sorry to see that redemption of any kind is poorly received nt

[Safetykitten]

18. Have any rapists over lately?

[MrScorpio]

24. And what do rapists have to do with Vick?

I'm not getting your point.

He was charged, convicted and served a sentence for abusing and killing dogs.

So why are you moving off topic with rape?

[Safetykitten]

28. Well both pay their debts. So which will you be inviting over for dinner?

My guess is the football player.

[blondeatlast]

27. No, only redemption of an obviously false, motivated by endorsement greed. variety is

poorly receivedIf he donates a huge wad of cash to a shelter AND volunteers to pick up shit from victimized dogs, I might be willing to "receive" his so-called "redemption." He's only sorry he got caught.

And if he never garners a dime of endorsement money--and it looks like I'll get my wish--I will be delighted.

[TBF]

34. Sorry, but you are wrong on this. It is not that some are not redeemable,

it is that this case was so very extreme.

[Safetykitten]

41. Agree...you are nicer than me. He's a twisted sick$%@#

[femrap]

102. and rape isn't extreme??????

hell, if rapists got jail time like Vick did, we'd have a prison population so much larger than it is today.

There is no political will to stop rape.

ETA: You'd be surprised how many male dog owners rape their dogs. That's a little secret that doesn't get aired in public too often.

[TBF]

263. I didn't say rape was not extreme - and if you'd like to take about

rape let's talk about the rape stands at the bad newz kennels -

[niyad]

38. what kind of redemption? seriously, apart from serving in club fed, what kind of redemption? does

it bring back the dogs he killed?

that crap a couple of weeks ago about how he wanted dogs, to prove he was changed, and because it wasn't fair to his kids to be deprived of having dogs because of him, made me physically ill. yet, some stupid judge will probably buy his act, because ACT is all it is.


the fact is, as far as I can see, he is being forgiven because he can play ball. since I don't give a rat's ass about sports, that argument does not carry any weight with me.

[MrScorpio]

49. He's rightly served time for his crimes

But what crimes have he committed since the completion of his sentence?

Merely living and making a living?

What wrong is there in that?

[blondeatlast]

55. Justice serves society, not the other way around. I have no obligation to

consider him redeemed if all he wants to do is make more in endorsements--which I see he's unable to do.

Happy to see Madison Avenue considers him toxic.

[northernlights]

56. doing time is not redemption.

If he wants redemption, he has to dedicate his life to making up for what he did. Nothing less. That means he contributes to dog welfare in any way that he can. Honest contributions, not personal PR campaigns.

True redemption, true atonement, means changing *in your heart*, not PR campaigns.

[blondeatlast]

64. Well said--but I do delight in the fact that Madison Avenue considers him toxic regardless of

the relentless media spin. I guess it takes vile to know why vile holds no appeal.

[MrScorpio]

124. And still, that even won't be enough for some

For some, nothing is enough

[northernlights]

132. well we won't know that until we see it

but from what I've seen, your belief won't be tested.

Vick has yet to show any sign of seeking true redemption. It's all about poor Vick and how hard it's been for him.

[MrScorpio]

146. And how what would you suggest should be a continued punishment for him?

And how high should that punishment go?

[northernlights]

242. again, it's not about punishment. it's about redemption and atonement

those aren't things we can put onto him.

He can only come to that point himself. He can only come to a point where he can't look himself in the mirror *unless* he tries to atone for what he did.

It's about a change withing HIS heart. I see no evidence of such change.

And as long as he continues his PR game trying to win people over so he'll be allowed to have a dog in his home for the purpose of proving to us how much he loves dogs, I will oppose him having dogs.

He wants to prove to us that he loves dogs. Show it:

1. Donate consistently to the rescues that rehabilitated his dogs.
2. Spend time at a shelter cleaning up dog poop, doing the lowliest of the low jobs, just to be near dogs.
3. Quit whining about how hard it is that you have to tell your kids they can't have a dog. Tell them why. Not the gory details, but the truth.

The fact is, he doesn't deserve a dog. He has proven himself incapable of caring for them in an appropriate manner. An understatement which would be laughable if the reality of what he did weren't so horrific.

Don't think a few PR gigs are going to change how you are viewed by people who deplore cruelty to animals, because we simply aren't that stupid.

[MrScorpio]

257. So you're content with changing the conditions of his post conviction restitution?

I'm surprised that your demands are so light.

[northernlights]

271. from what I've read, he has a 3 year ban from having dogs. it should be lifetime ban

He doesn't deserve that trust, no matter what he does. And another step toward redemption would be recognizing and accepting that, instead of assailing us with his pathetic PR campaign.

You're talking legalities. I'm talking about what's inside the person. Two different things.

[Foo Fighter]

332. Redemption? Is this your idea of redemption?

This is a quote from Best Friends, an organization that took in a number of Vick's victims:

"Essentially, an ex-convict is dominating America’s most popular sport while victims of his previous crime continue to live with the brutality of that crime, and has that ever happened before?

Do you cheer the player and boo the man? Can you cheer the comeback while loathing the actions that necessitated the comeback? And how can you do any of this while not knowing if Vick has truly discovered morality or simply rediscovered the pocket?”

From what we at Best Friends know of the way Michael Vick has related to the animals he abused, the answer is clearly that he has “simply rediscovered the pocket.” Best Friends took 22 of Vick’s 48 seized dogs and the only contact we’ve received from Vick or his representatives was by way of some overtures from his agent, one of his attorneys and a PR firm specializing in reputation rehabilitation. They were interested in some public glad handing that would put Vick in a favorable light with the NFL, which at the time was still considering whether or not to reinstate him. We declined.

Best Friends has never heard from Michael Vick or any of his representatives inquiring after the health or well being of any of the 22 dogs that we received from his fighting ring."

Link:http://blogs.bestfriends.org/index.php/2010/11/18/michael-vick-the-value-proposition

Anytime a person hires a firm that specializes in "reputation rehabilitation", he's in deep shit. Had he spent that money on rehabbing his victims and donating to the APSCA or Humane Society, I might have been more inclined to think that he was on the way to redeeming himself. Unfortunately, the only "redemption" Vick cares about is that of his salary.

Face it. The only thing Vick cares about is money. If he was at all concerned about even pretending that he wanted to redeem himself, he could have very easily picked up the phone and made a call to Best Friends. Or, even easier, he could have had one of his minions do it. OTOH, if he actually wanted to start redeeming himself, he could have gone to the kennels (with the permission and/or supervision of Best Friends) and made an attempt to either visit the dogs or watch them from afar, depending on how the dogs were doing. The fact that he made no effort to even call and check on the dogs indicates to me that he hasn't changed a bit. He may have some legal restrictions placed upon him now but deep down, he has no remorse and, had he not been busted, he'd still be doing that same thing as before: maiming and killing dogs for entertainment. He's only remorseful about the fact that he got caught and it cost him some money.

[WilliamPitt]

19. How did Obama get involved in this?

Was the dog-killing Obama's fault, too? Or did I miss a memo in all this snow?

Help?

[Pirate Smile]

21. Here you go:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/12/27/5720751-obama-praises-eagles-for-giving-vick-second-chance-use-of-alternate-energy

[Safetykitten]

22. Apparently bored out of his skull, and and an umbrella drink too many, he just could not

keep his mouth shut.

[WilliamPitt]

94. Derp

[Safetykitten]

101. Well, now we have your attention.

[WilliamPitt]

111. Yeah, sorry I missed a story about Obama on vacation in Hawaii.

It's kinda Christmas and stuff.

;)

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

29. EVERYTHING is Obama's fault. Did you get the memo?!?!

Where's your outrage? :sarcasm:

[MrScorpio]

33. It's because, for some, giving someone a second change is just poor taste

Especially, from the perspective of someone who's sitting high on a horse

[Critters2]

35. Or the perspective of an electrocuted dog. nt

[MrScorpio]

44. Something for which he was rightly punished, no doubt

And I don't see the point of piling on.

What wrong has he done since?

[Critters2]

57. For the record, I doubt that he was rightly punished.

I also think his crimes demonstrate such an extreme lack of empathy that it's only a matter of time before he's in trouble again. Especially since he's been so handsomely rewarded for these crimes. He should be getting treatment, not contracts and praise.

[11 Bravo]

244. Please explain how he was "so handsomely rewarded for these crimes".

I thought he did two years in a maximum security prison and forfeited several million dollars as a result of his criminal behavior. If you feel that was insufficient punishment, say so, but to claim that he was rewarded for his crimes is either a fucking lie or a sign of divorce from reality.

[Critters2]

253. I feel that was insufficient punishment. I also believe the attention he now gets,

including this assinine phone call from the president, is a reward for his behavior. As is his ridiculous salary.

[niyad]

324. he served 20 months in federal prison (haven't read anywhere that it was a max security)

and I really do not care that he blew his money, not just the forfeiture of his ridiculous salary.

how much is he making now?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

45. Or one slammed to death against the ground.

Fun for the whole family.

[TBF]

46. A second chance is valid in many cases, but not in such extreme cases.

Generally people who are serial murderers are kept in prison (or here in Texas they are executed). Michael Vick not only walks after a year, but the president calls in his congratulations. It's completely disgusting.

[butterfly77]

289. Are you saying ...

he should be executed because of dogfighing..

[niyad]

47. WHAT second chance? he gets millions to play ball, whines that his kids are being deprived of

animals because of him, and we are supposed to feel sorry for him? BS. if he weren't a ball player, and obama had not praised the eagles to the skies, we would not be discussing him

[MrScorpio]

61. It's a shame that he has talent and has used that talent to succeed

Yes, his crimes were horrible and he was punished for them.

But this continuation of resentment for no reason, other than just to be self-righteous, really has no other point that just that. Am I right?

I just hope that you're not constantly condemned in life for the mistakes that you've ever made, whether you've paid for those mistakes or not.

[Critters2]

66. Have you actually heard or read what he did to those aniamls?

How can anyone shrug that off so lightly?

[niyad]

80. because the man can play ball--haven't you figured out that THAT is what is important here?

[MrScorpio]

84. I know what he did was horrible

As a matter of fact, I heard about them early on because is happened at his house in Tidewater while I was living in Newport News.

So, I do know.

I also know that he was convicted of his crimes and served time. AS he should have.

Yet, in spite of that fact, the self righteous among us are stuck on "punish".

Since he hasn't reoffended, I really don't see the point of all of this.

[niyad]

78. you know, it has long since ceased to even surprise me that such a person is being supported here on

DU--his crimes were horrific, and, as far as i am concerned, serving a few months in club fed is NOT punishment.

there is no resentment here, just pure disgust that this person is walking free, lionized, and pitied, even, because some people won't forget what a reprehensible being he is. I actually feel sorry for his daughters, and I sincerely hope someone is watching out for their welfare. animal abusers and child abusers aren't all that different.

[MrScorpio]

91. I'm sorry, but the courts see it differently

Perhaps you may feel that stoning was in order instead?

[niyad]

140. the courts have their opinion, and I have mine (and I AM allowed to have mine, you know)

quite frankly, I think the same punishment and abuse he gave those poor, defenseless animals might have been appropriate, but this country is still (so far as I know) signatory to the geneva conventions, so that couldn't have happened.

so please do go on and on about how he has served his time, etc. the man is a totally worthless, violent POS, a person we would not even be discussing if he didn't have ability with a ball. it's just a pity that his talents are limited to that area, and not to being a worthwhile human being.

and, I repeat, I truly hope someone is watching out for his daughters. isn't much of a stretch from animal abuse to child abuse.

[MrScorpio]

150. Well, Ghandi once said that "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

Frankly, I don't see how wishing the same thing on a person for which he's hated for makes any of us better human beings.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

292. "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."

Another thing Mahatma Gandhi said.

[Safetykitten]

51. No, maybe you should be sitting in front of a dog.

[MrScorpio]

115. Just for the record, my objections have nothing to do with Vick

I'm not even a fan of the man.

However, I find it amazing that he's the constant source of self-righeous resentment in the aftermath of his sentence completion.

I take that as a sign from those who engage in this sort of thing that, either they've never made a mistake in life that has ever needed to be forgiven, or are not being forgiven for their own sins.

Yes, he hurt and killed dogs. And for that he was convicted by a jury of his peers and served time.

Yet, after all of that, the self-righteous persist in moving the goal posts, per se. Let's pile on, they say, with no good reason, I can see.

I'm sorry that you were not on his trial jury… But they have already spoken.

[Safetykitten]

148. "I take that as a sign from those who engage in this sort of thing..."

Another shrink. Get in line.

[MrScorpio]

151. As are the people who are diagnosing Vick, I hope? nt

[niyad]

154. he didn't just "hurt" dogs (like stepping on a tail accidentally) he violently, sadistically

and horribly ABUSED them, and THEN killed them.

I am sorry that you truly do not seem to get what people are upset about. he served a little bit of time in club fed, big fucking deal.

no, they would never have put me on his jury, because I couldn't lie well enough to even pretend that I was objective in the first place.

quite frankly, and you can put whatever shrink label you like on this little fact, I hope he gets exactly what he deserves (and I am not talking about his little stint in club fed)

[MrScorpio]

174. And I'm sure that his jury was quite familiar with what he did

And for that, he was convicted and he served his time.

But what is the point of this piling on?

Whose good does it serve?

When is enough enough?

[TBF]

53. The rape stand did it for me. This is not a man I'm going to forgive. nt

[MrScorpio]

70. As is your right

I just hope that, if you ever need to be forgiven for something that you may have done, others have the ability to grant you that forgiveness.

Until then, I hope that your mistakes are not witnessed by the unforgiving amongst us.

[TBF]

I didn't say I wouldn't forgive anyone, it varies based on what they've done.

I didn't forgive Timothy McVey either. In fact, McVey's case was the first in which I actually believed the death penalty might have a role in a civilized society. Who intentionally looks at a building, sees the windows of a daycare center, and blows it up (knowing it is open and there are children in there)? What kind of sick fuck does that? Same with Michael Vick.

[MrScorpio]

119. Just for the record, I object to the death penalty in ALL cases

That would have included McVey as well.

I have many reasons for my position. I'm not going to elaborate, because it's off topic.

However, I will offer this observation about your reply.

It seems that even after McVey was convicted and received the ultimate sanction, the taking of his life, you refuse to provide any kind of resolution for his crimes.

McVey is dead and gone, but it really doesn't matter, does it?


When is enough enough and moving on the thing to do?

[TBF]

164. It was an example - are we supposed to forget history and repeat it? nt

[MrScorpio]

173. Perhaps someone can point out where Vick is repeating history

Unless, of course, moving on is just too hard a thing to do, right?

[TBF]

180. I understand Mr. Obama and many of his supporters are all about "moving on" -

we saw that with the dismissal of Bush and Cheney's war crimes. I believe you are wrong. Sometimes things are too heinous to be forgotten and swept under the rug.

[MrScorpio]

192. I still don't see how a conviction and a prison sentence...

Can be classified as "forgotten and swept under the rug."

Vick's a convicted felon who has completed his sentence.

That, in no way, approaches any kind of equivalency with Bush and Cheney and their war crimes.

Vick has done his time, any further crimination without good reason is just a pointless exercise in superfluous self-righteousness.

[TBF]

222. I didn't say he should go back to jail -

but I also don't think he deserves praise from the President of the United States. YMMV.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

165. With the female dog's teeth removed so she couldn't attack...

the dog raping her. (I don't even want to think about how her teeth were removed.) It's totally fucking amazing to me that someone would consider that a mere "mistake." Michael Vick is rotten to the core, and no sentence or fine or PR blitz will change that.

[TBF]

223. Thank you. nt

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

227. If Obama wants to make a meaningful statement about redemption...

...he can't continue to pander to his millionaire butt-buddies like Lurie, Goodell, and Vick. I don't care how much money Vick owes, he's fucking rich and will be when he retires at the age of 38.

Obama should make examples of regular old employers willing to pay felons a living wage, if this class of employers even exit.

[northernlights]

248. Obama confused Vick's PR campaign with redemption

Redemption is not about having articles written about how you LOOOOOOVE doggies and how HAAAARD it is to tell your kids they can't have a dog.

Redemption is not about approaching the rescue that saved half your dogs and asking them to put in a good word for you.

Redemption is not about whining about how hard you've got it because you lost (er, threw away) your career and lost millions of dollars.

Redemption is about not being able to look yourself in the mirror until you make up for the evil acts you committed. Knowing that nothing will undo the damage, and spending the rest of your life trying to make up for it.

Redemption could have been about donating heavily to the organizations that rehabbed your dogs. It could have included asking about their welfare.

It could have been about having articles written about how ashamed you are of what you did, how you wish you hadn't, how you never will again, how grateful you are to be given a 2nd chance at your career.

Everything Vick has done has been totally and 100% self-serving, up to and including hiring PR professionals that specialize in rehabbing ruined brands.

Obama has apparently bought into their bullshit, thereby confirming either total callousness toward Vick's victims, or total stupidity and tone-deafnessness.

Vick is many things. An example of redemption is NOT one of them.

[Critters2]

20. Why look at that! Yet another reason to be disappointed with Obama.

As if I needed one. Well, I still say it's just a matter of time before Vick ends up in the corrections system again. There were no real penalties for these awful crimes. Why shouldn't he commit more?

[niyad]

26. wow, so many unrec's--guess you hit a nerve, kitten

[Safetykitten]

31. Absolutely.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

43. Interesting issue here.

It seems like we forgave President Obama for allowing Do*nie Mcclurkin to host a campaign event. Maybe we shouldn't be, though. I mean...we have one person endorsing the denial of basic human rights to American citizens. The other is mistreating animals. Same thing, right? Right?

[niyad]

54. first of all, not everyone forgave him the donnie debacle. second of all, there is a HUGE

difference between mistreatment and abuse--take a look at the pics of some of the surviving dogs rescued from vick's house of horror.

[Safetykitten]

58. Well kids, it's about now Jesus shows up, so heads up.

[cleanhippie]

357. Huh?

Now you are spewing nonsense.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Critters2]

62. Liberals care about all living creatures.

Even the ones who can't vote.

[sofa king]

69. Yes....

....Including convicted felon Michael Vick.

[Critters2]

71. I care about him....but I don't think he should be rewarded for his crimes

as he is.

[TBF]

81. Exactly, well I don't care about him, but he has gotten away with torture and murder. And now we

are supposed to worship him as well? There are a lot of people in this country that Mr. Obama could call. Folks who work in soup kitchens for example, people like public school teachers, or those that drive meals-on-wheels to make sure the elderly eat. Who does Mr. Obama decide to call? He calls a fucking NFL owner to reward him for hiring an ex-con who tortured and murdered multiple dogs.

[hack89]

137. He was not charged with murder. nt

[PhillySane]

163. Vick did time for his crime

on the other hand, Dick Cheney got away with torture, murder of innocent Iraqis, shooting birds and shooting a human being who was supposed to be his friend. I'm not so sure we all get this worked up when white upper class Republicans with too much power in their hands use it to hideous extremes. You should be screaming for Bush, Cheyney and Rumsfeld to be put away or receive the same that they gave. I guess Vick is a much easier target. I've heard him say he was sorry. I wish I'd here that from those three white guys I just mentioned.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

181. Do you have any clue as to what DU was like during the Bush years?

Obviously not, or you wouldn't have made that ridiculous post.

[TBF]

Check the archives -

there was plenty of furor against Bush, Cheney, et al., until Obama took over and decided to sweep it all under the rug.

[PhillySane]

228. So

now all nicey nice with these guys? But Vick's still on the shit list?

[Name removed]

280. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sofa king]

87. It's not his crimes for which he is being rewarded.

It is his superior physical genius, which makes the other professionals around him look foolish, something one sees only a few times a century in a given professional sport.

I can like and admire that all day long, and sleep like a baby knowing that even though I love the way he plays, he was a heartless animal abuser off the field whom I probably would have trouble forgiving if I knew him personally.

Why can't the rest of you do that?

[Safetykitten]

Ewww. Just Ewww!

[sofa king]

99. And that answer is perfectly in keeping with my above assertion.

No logic, just emotion. And I have to pretend that you're on my side when it comes to the politics of the complex world we live in.

But you're not. Your emotions just push you in the direction of the bleeding hearts, without understanding why our hearts bleed.

[Safetykitten]

109. I will send you 100 for the session. I will send the next one in.

[sofa king]

114. I'm sorry, I don't speak PETA.

[Safetykitten]

116. You really should not expose too much. Not good. Bad light and all.

[sofa king]

121. But all cats are plaid in Spring! Upside down and @ in spork?

[cleanhippie]

358. Thats the best argument you can come up with?

[michaz]

191. Because I am not in the habit of seperating my beliefs and my feelings.

I believe this jerk needs to have some remorse and he has not. He is worried only about himself. Why in the world would I want to forgive him? Why would I feel that he should be allowed to have another animal? Why in the world would I feel he should be rewarded for all of his actions?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

264. how was he rewarded for his crimes?

[TBF]

72. I am not a liberal. nt

[ceile]

159. Anyone that tortures animals will never be forgiven. Simple. n/t

[sofa king]

193. And that's totally cool with me.

I don't have to forgive Mike Vick, and I don't think I have yet, though I'm trying. You don't ever have to forgive him and I'm not asking you to do that. I wouldn't be happy with those who insist you should.

I've been watching that guy play football for over a decade, and I'll be the first to tell you that the only thing I really know about Mike Vick is his play on the field during a silly one-hour game that has two hours of commercials and fluff in it. I don't have to hate Mike Vick the player; he never killed a dog on the field, though torturing dogs kept him off the field for quite a while.

In the football world, Mike Vick is great because he's better than everyone else, not because he tortures animals, and not in spite of it. George Patton was a great general and a disturbing anti-Semite. O.J. Simpson was a great running back... and a murderer. Thomas Jefferson was a great President and a total hypocrite. Mike Vick is a football phenomenon and an animal torturer.

But you can't say Mike Vick is not a good football player because he's an animal torturer. That doesn't fit the statistics and the films. So both things have to exist at the same time.

[AndrewP]

196. Bullshit. I am a liberal and I don't support Vick and his shitty "comeback"

All he is is a vile POS who throws a football far and runs a lot. He's not sorry for what he did, he's sorry for getting caught.

If you want to wear his jersey and cry with joy, that's a you problem. Don't drag me into it with the lecture.

Thanks

[emilyg]

201. Thank you.

[sofa king]

211. How can one even "support" it? It simply is.

I admire the play for what it is. I don't have to love Mike Vick to watch him come back from four touchdowns behind and win. I don't have to feel guilty about thinking that's an amazing achievement, because it is whether I like Mike Vick or not. You're free to ignore it, of course, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening before our eyes.

But the all-or-none, black-or-white approach some of the people here are taking to Mike Vick--and that goes for both supporters and detractors--reveals an unsettling pattern of thought which is more widely accepted in the party we oppose, rather than our own. Hence my accusation--intentionally hyperbolic--of those people being illiberal.

[flvegan]

315. I'm a liberal and I rehab ex-fighting dogs.

I'm also privy to a lot of the behind the scenes of the whole "redemption" bullshit campaign that he's half running through HSUS.

You understand nothing, dogfighting apologist. I only say that since you threw the "shitty liberal" gauntlet.

Wear it well.

[Lorien]

323. No, Liberals stand up for the powerless aganst the powerful

Should we all forgive Bush/Cheney next? We aren't mindless doormats.

[lukasahero]

343. Thank you for that declaration

I couldn't give a shit what you think of me.

[john donathon]

65. i know what he did was horrendous

but you have to realize the fact that dogs are not human beings.

[Critters2]

68. So, who cares if they suffer? Is that your point? Are you a pro-football player?

Or team owner?

[Safetykitten]

73. No, probably the president of the Humane/Vick rehab Society.

[TBF]

75. The Humane/Vick/Obama rehab society. Ugh. nt

[Critters2]

252. Isn't his name "Barack Obama"? nt

[TBF]

74. No, they are better than many human beings. nt

[BuelahWitch]

232. +1

[niyad]

97. I would ordinarily say welcome to du--but your lack of concern for other living beings is disgusting

how do you like your pizza?

[dana_b]

118. omg - really?!

so because dogs are not humans, it's okay that he spent a year or less in club fed for killing, torturing and maiming these creatures!? Let by gones be by gones now and let him have a puppy.... let's celebrate his physicality and reward him with millions and millions of dollars. Who cares that sociopaths are known animal abusers and can work up to killing humans in time? As long as they are great football players!! Woo hoo!!

This "man" has no understanding or caring in his heart for what he did to these dogs. No remorse except for how it has affected his career. Too bad he wasn't ordered to shovel their shit at animal shelters for a few years before he was allowed back into the NFL. Maybe he would learn to respect the animals and realize that it's not all about him.

[ceile]

161. Thank goodness!

We've seen human behavior.

[emilyg]

203. Shame on you for posting that.

[apocalypsehow]

77. These threads are starting to become as tiresome as those that whine about the UnRec function.

Granted, I could understand the first 1,1360,987 of them. After all, the crime Michael Vick committed was horrific, and he rightly did prison time for it. He should carry the burden of that guilt the rest of his life.

But at a certain point, these exercises in "Fuck Michael Vick"-ism stop being about Vick, or the dogs he horribly abused, and about something else, methinks. And that something is every bit as ugly as anything Vick ever dreamed up - not in actual physical terms, of course, but in mindset.

Yesiree, I think I'm starting to recognize a pattern here....

[Safetykitten]

79. No playing...the race card.

[Critters2]

82. The very definition of hyperbole:

And that something is every bit as ugly as anything Vick ever dreamed up - not in actual physical te

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TBF]

105. +1 nt

[john donathon]

86. neither pro, nor owner

All I am trying to say is that dogs are not the same as humans. If you ran over a dog by accident, should you then be punished as if you ran over a human?

[Safetykitten]

88. You know when you play football and there is a scrub team?

[Critters2]

90. Nothing Vick did was "by accident". nt

[meow mix]

96. if you willfully beat a dogs face into hamburger.. your a sick fuck.

is this how you begin to rationalize your way out of that fact? god thats wierd

well i guess youll have be having a muder-rapist over for dinner soon

[niyad]

100. you are saying that dogs' lives are worth nothing. quite frankly, there are many dogs I like better

than many humans, including the newest member of that last.

[dana_b]

120. he did not run over a dog accidentally..

he brutally tortured and killed them. Purposefully. He is a sociopath - he needs years of psychological help, not millions and millions of dollars.... and a puppy.

[michaz]

237. Are you really trying to compare what Vick did to an accident?

Apples are not oranges. This was far from an accident and to do what he did over and over again, one has to have a perverted sense of enjoyment! And obviously not know right from wrong and illegal from legal. He chose to do what he did, and he didn't do it once, but many times. I would think to change the mind set of a person like that you would need many hours of counseling.

[Ratty]

92. Forgiveness, fine. Atonement, fine. But that man should not be a role model

[TBF]

122. Atonement? Where is the atonement? Not once have I seen any evidence that he

admitted what he did to those dogs and how he has learned from that experience. He got away with it, that's the message kids are getting.

[Safetykitten]

130. There has been none. Just lawyers, enablers and twisted fans.

[one_voice]

212. Who makes him a role model?

It's not Michael Vick, Charles Barkley, Adam "Pac-Man" Jones, Donte Stallworth (look up that one) or any other athlete's job to be a role model. Parents are supposed to teach their children right from wrong and be their role models.

That's part of the problem, we put these people on pedestals and when they fuck up we act like they owe us something--they don't. We take it personally, and we shouldn't. It's our job to raise our kids and be role models not theirs. Do I think they should feel some kind of responsibility because they're in the public eye? Of course. But we don't live in that world and bottom line it's not their job to be anyone's role model.

[michaz]

230. Oh they are role models. They shouldn't be but they are. When young

children are watching those games and want to be just like them someday and make all that money, they are role models. They may not want to be but they are. They are in the spot light and they know it. When they are out in public like they are on your television, they are. They shouldn't be, but they are. Parents may try to tell their kids that they aren't but how do you convince those bright eyed kids that they aren't

[Safetykitten]

He's an adult. In most societies adults are the role models. Sorry.

[john donathon]

98. once again

I am not condoning anything he did, but you must realize that murdering a dog does not constitute the same punishment as murdering a human? Can we at agree on that one sentence?

[Safetykitten]

103. WTF? The Beer heir just got away clean with TWO? Your point?

[niyad]

104. no, actually, we cannot, and will not. are you sure you are on the correct board?

because, seriously, this is the kind of bs one expects from that other site.

[TBF]

107. NO. nt

[WorseBeforeBetter]

127. No, we cannot. (n/t)

[blondeatlast]

128. Murder, in this case, would have been more merciful. Vick TORTURED these living, breathing,

feeling mammals.

Then, and only then, did he murder them.

Fuck him all too hell.

[Safetykitten]

152. And that is the horror of it.

[WiffenPoof]

106. I Suppose That...

I would want you to show that his crimes are inherent. Inherent because...This is what black men do? This is what people from his background practice? Just curious.


-PLA

On Edit...I'm NOT playing any "race card." Lacking any kind of understanding of what the OP means by "inherent," I think it is fair to ask these questions.

-PLA

[TBF]

108. Here we go again ... nt

[Safetykitten]

110. Race card derby.

[michaz]

225. Race does not have anything to do with this. I don't care if he was

sky-blue-pink! It is what he did! Not what color his skin was. Why are we turning this into a race game? That is ridiculous at best!

[truedelphi]

113. Meanwhile, in other news, medical marijuana use in Georgia remains a crime

And possession of even small amounts can result in a ten year sentence.

I am wondering if Obama calls any of these people upon their release, when they have served their "debt to society."

But why would he? Many of them are multiple sclerosis patients, in wheelchairs, and it is unlikely that they will be playing for a major football org any time soon.

[niyad]

143. and, therefore, they have no importance, don't you know?

[WiffenPoof]

117. Better Yet...

List those crimes which are "inherent." This would be important to know so that we know which crimes can never be forgiven.

-PLA

On Edit....Your "inherent" comment comes close to saying something similar to: Well, you know their kind. This is what they do.

What MV did is horrific...so are many other crimes where the person has paid their dues and been forgiven. You have every right to not forgive MV...That's your business. However, you should not be judging others who happen to believe that the legal system in this country (for the most part) works and is in place to seek justice. I'm curious what punishment you would consider satisfactory or just.

Gosh...even Jesus forgave. Even mothers of murder victims forgave.

This is why some consider your position to be self-righteous.

-PLA

[Safetykitten]

125. It's "You Make The Call!" The setup...

Convicted serial dog torturer, all around swell guy and NFL quarterback and a convicted serial rapist are coming for dinner!

Quarterback when coming in the room kicks your dog. Serial rapist makes a skeevy pass at your wife.

YOU MAKE THE CALL!

Tune in later for the CORRECT call!

[WiffenPoof]

131. How Does This Address My Question? n/t

[Safetykitten]

135. What rewards are satisfactory or just? Still nobody has an answer to that tidbit.

[WiffenPoof]

141. I'm Not Sure That I Understand...

your question. What does "rewards" have to do with this. Maybe I'm just a bit slow today....sincerely trying to figure out what they have to do with each other.

Justice is supposed to be blind. This means to me that his NFL career has absolutely nothing to do with his criminal past. That would be like saying "Wow, he is a really talented artist...but he is gay." I don't see what being gay has to do with a person's artistic talents.

-PLA

[Safetykitten]

149. Waaa?

[WiffenPoof]

153. Sorry...

Am I being dense here? If I am, I apologize. I don't mean any disrespect. I'm simply trying to understand the whole reward thing.

-PLA

[Alenne]

123. And after your rant

Michael Vick will still go on with his life.

[Safetykitten]

126. Uh, oh...I...deep...the deepness trancends deepness, Wait, I must weep.

[Alenne]

138. Your OP wasn't deep

So why would you think you would get a deep answer? Save your weeping for all of Mike Vick's dogs you helped save.

[blondeatlast]

139. I've done more to help Vick's dogs than he has. So yeah, I will weep. nt

[Alenne]

145. Awesome

[TBF]

158. Some of us are pretty big supporters of Best Friends who took in the dogs (and yes I mean

financial donors). And yes we will speak out about this. Your attitude speaks volumes.

[Alenne]

169. Some of us aren't donors.

Some of us actually work with abused and neglected animals every day. My attitude does speak volumes.

[TBF]

185. Are you saying that you personally work with abused and neglected

animals daily, and you support Vick?

[Alenne]

190. Nowhere did I say I support Vick.

I work at an animal shelter. I see first hand the abuse and neglect ordinary people subject their animals to and then dump on us to fix. If people were as upset about their neighbors and family members not taking care of their responsibility as they are about Mike Vick playing football, my job would be so much easier.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that more than one person in this thread that is so outraged has abandoned an animal. People suck and Vick is no exception.

[michaz]

202. We adopted 2 rescue dogs here. I have never abandoned an animal.

Matter of fact, I am on a County Board that is changing laws here in our county in NYS. Trust me, we get real upset about people that abuse, neglect or abandon their animals. What Vick has done goes above and beyond "normal" animal abuse. What he did to those dogs is unbelievable to me and the animals that were killed while he was training his dogs is not even something I can imagine a human being with any decency any where in their body could do!

[Alenne]

220. I adopted 4 dogs and a cat with no eyes.

I've fostered countless dogs and cats. I've been up every two hours to bottle feed kittens and puppies. I even helped bring some cats back that stopped breathing during surgery. I've also had to euthanize more than a few cats and dogs.

Millions of animals are killed every year in this country because their owners didn't want them anymore. At least Vick knew what he was doing was wrong.

[TBF]

265. "At least Vick knew what he was doing was wrong" -

that makes his crimes acceptable? And, for the record, to this date he has never admitted what he did to the dogs nor apologized for what he did to them.

[Critters2]

287. I thought the correct argument is that he didn't know, it was a cultural thing,

you know, all of that.

[TBF]

288. Some culture. nt

[Alenne]

293. Who said it was acceptable?

Have you ever had a conversation with Vick?

[TBF]

294. Have you? nt

[Alenne]

297. No but

I don't pretend to know if he is remorseful or not.

[TBF]

298. You just stated that "he knew what he was doing was wrong" nt

[Alenne]

304. He did. nt

[TBF]

312. Then how can you say, and I quote you "I don't pretend to know if he is remorseful or not".

you are saying one thing in one post, and the exact opposite in another. Enough of this crap, I'm done with you.

[adigal]

283. I have rescued some bait dogs from the south

God, it is horrible what is done to these dogs. And these are the ones who survive.

[TBF]

215. I have adopted a couple of rescue labs, but don't work with an

organization daily. I agree with you though that people do horrible things. I guess what gets me in this case is the extreme nature of the abuse/torture/murder, and the fact that Vick has not shown any remorse to date. There are so many worthy folks that Mr. Obama could have called - people who run non-profits across the country and perform acts of kindness daily.

[Alenne]

226. I've never met Vick

I don't know how remorseful he is and I don't care.

Go to your local animal shelter and see what they get on a regular basis. Volunteer at a kill shelter and see how easy people give up their animals,knowing what will happen to them. I work at a no kill shelter so I only see the shitty side of people weekly not everyday like at kill shelters.

We don't get a report of every call Obama makes. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't.

[TBF]

229. The call Obama made is documented - not an opinion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/27/obama-michael-vick_n_801736.html

[Alenne]

234. The call to the coach is documented

I don't personally know if he's reached out to non profits or not.

[TBF]

267. And maybe peacocks will fall from the sky too. You can excuse him all you want, but he is wrong. nt

[adigal]

281. I have to agree - my dog rescue takes in hundreds of

animals from the south, dumped in gassing shelters. Puppies, older pups, dogs, doesn't matter, they are all expendable.

I hate people. :(

I do love dogs. :)

[niyad]

147. and you think this is okay? the fact that this abusive, violent, sadistic bastard gets to go on

with his life, making millions, all because he can play ball?

[Alenne]

160. God give me the strength to change the things I can.

The courage to accept the things that I cannot. And the wisdom to know the difference.

I don't see how me being upset about Michael Vick changes anything. He doesn't care about how I feel. His team isn't going to drop him because I'nm pissed. So what is the point?

[Safetykitten]

167. Then commenting on it will not change anything either.

[Alenne]

170. So why did you? nt

[TBF]

218. I actually don't have a problem with Vick playing football (although I hope for many sacks) -

but I do have a problem with him adopting any dogs in the future, and I have a problem with Obama calling a NFL owner and applauding him for hiring this guy. Of all the people to single out for attention ...

[Alenne]

233. No shelter is going to adopt to Vick.

Doesn't mean he won't get a dog. Not something I'm in control of. I do know he won't think fighting them is a good idea anymore.

[Critters2]

247. He hasn't really demonstrated that he thinks fighting them is a bad idea.

He's only demonstrated that he thinks getting caught fighting them is a bad idea. Not a hint of real remorse.

[adigal]

285. You can't know that - Vick has bloodlust to be able to do that

He will fight dogs again. I strongly feel that he will, although of course, I don't know it.

[TBF]

300. The point is that we don't blindly accept things from authorities when they are wrong.

You may not feel that you can change things that are wrong, but I absolutely believe that I can at least fight them.

[Alenne]

306. What did you do to fight for animals today?

Posting about how mad you are about Vick doesn't count.
Not your own animals but a homeless animal. What did you do today that will make a difference?

[TBF]

310. And, again, peacocks falling from the sky - what does that have to do with oranges?

It has nothing to do with what you or I do personally any day. I may take in a rescue dog, I may give money, you may help them at your place of work (which you do for pay I'm sure). What matters, and what this OP is about, is that the president has excused horrible behavior against animals by a celebrity and has made a point of doing it and broadcasting it.

Honestly this is tiresome. You love the president, you'll excuse anything he does, fine.

[TBF]

155. So we should enable that? Bad enough that Obama does. nt

[Alenne]

166. Enable what?

You don't have a say in Michael Vick's life or career.

[Safetykitten]

168. Uh, for someone happy with accepting things as they are, you sure have alot

of opinons otherwise.

[Alenne]

172. I'm not entitled to an opinion?

How very progressive of you.

[Safetykitten]

176. Well upthread read your own words.

"The courage to accept the things that I cannot. And the wisdom to know the difference.

I don't see how me being upset about Michael Vick changes anything."

[Alenne]

177. I did

And what? You posted, I commented. That's how discussions work.

[Safetykitten]

178. "The courage to accept the things that I cannot. And the wisdom to know the difference."

Without getting all theological...my God likes fighters without asking his opinion.

[Alenne]

186. Awesome nt

[Omaha Steve]

129. How many others that pay their debt get a chance at a job worth millions?

Perhaps even Most Valuable Player of the year in the big league?

[flvegan]

133. Man, they're out in force tonight.

Everyone loves a dogfighter. Premeditated violence on defenseless animals, rah rah!

[Foo Fighter]

266. Now that would make a lovely campaign T-shirt.

"Dogfighters for Obama."

There's probably already a "Leave Vick alone!!" video up on youTube. If not, I'm sure some of the posters in this thread will get right on that.

[flvegan]

269. Damn you.

Water right out my nose.

[Foo Fighter]

286. LOL! Sorry I couldn't help it.

Your post set me up for it and I just couldn't resist.

[customerserviceguy]

136. I disagree with you

"Sick" means it's not his fault, I prefer the word "evil'.

[woo me with science]

142. +1 nt

[niyad]

156. thank you for pointing that out.

[Safetykitten]

157. You know this "what is the punishment" crap is old.

What are the rewards? What in your MV loving minds is appropriate for awards? What does he DESERVE?

How about that?

Let us have it. We want to know.

[meow mix]

213. theyll be having hannibal lector over for dinner and a sleep over

he'll probally just stay in the kids room.

[ceile]

162. Rec!

[Throd]

171. So you want him banned from the NFL?

I understand your disgust at what he did with those dogs. I don't understand what he can now do to satisfy you that he is truly remorseful of his deeds. As well as being a dog torturing scumbag, he is also a very talented football player. That is his job and it happens to pay very well. Most people aren't able make that kind of high-profile money after they get out of prison, so we never hear about them. Don't watch the games. Better yet, cheer for some 320 pound defensive tackle to sack him hard. After a person has served a prison sentence they get the opportunity to resume with their lives in a legal manner.

[Safetykitten]

175. So, I can put you down in the MV non-puking jersey? Got it.

[Throd]

179. Not at all, I find him reprehensible...

But he has a right to do his job until the NFL or the Eagles say otherwise.

Do you want him banned from football?

[Critters2]

187. Yes. nt

[JoePhilly]

200. On what grounds?

I mean, if he had been working at McDonald's making fries .... would you claim that he could not return to that position either??

[Critters2]

204. If he had been working at McDonald's he probably would have been

disqualified from getting his job back, the minute they saw the check in the box by the words "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?". That's how life is for most felons. Why should it be different for this POS?

[JoePhilly]

214. So no former felon should ever be able to get a job ater they get out??

Is that your point?

Then why release them?

If they can't get a job, what are they most likely to do??? Think for a minute or two on that.

Ding ding ding, return to crime.

So yes ... let's exclude ALL convicted felons from jobs so that their only choice is to commit more crimes.

Great plan.

[Critters2]

217. No. That's not my point. My point is that this POS does NOT

deserve to be treated SO MUCH better than people who commit less heinous crimes. But he is. Because he can throw a football.

Yeah. I would ban him from the NFL. He can always try to get a job at McDonald's.

[JoePhilly]

224. If he was an architect prior, you'd ban him from that too??

I mean let's be real ... come on let's make a list of the jobs that a former felon's should be allowed to have.

Your position so far is ...

NFL ... No.
McDonald's ... Yes.

There are lots of job positions in-between.

Or, in your justice system ... do former felons only get minimum wage jobs ... and if so, should that punishment be spelled out as part of their official sentencing???

[Critters2]

238. Most architectural firms wouldn't hire a felon. That's the harsh reality

for most felons. Can't get jobs, can't find housing, can't "move on". Yet, Vick complains about not being able to own a dog.

[JoePhilly]

246. Can't answer me??

The fact that "most architectural firms" won't hire a felon (even if true, again you give no proof to that assertion) is besides the point.

I asked YOU what positions should a former felon be allowed to hold. I asked for YOUR position.

And then ... your last statement is false. Vick has not "complained" about not being able to own a dog. That statement is false.

In an interview, Vick was asked if he would like to own a dog at some point in the future. He said yes. And he indicated that if he reached the point where he could own a dog again, that would mark a major milestone in his recovery.

Vick was not "complaining" ... he responding to a direct question honestly.

So I return to my main question, which you avoided ... What jobs do you think Vick, and other former felons, should be allowed to hold? DO they need to live in poverty, can they ever become rich, do they need to wear a scarlet F for Felon for life????

Well??

[Critters2]

249. Actually he did complain about his daughters not being able to have a dog.

And my opinion is that Vick should be treated like any other felon...who has to live with real consequences when he checks the box that says he's a felon on a job application.

[JoePhilly]

254. Sure ... no problem ...

And if a former Felon is good at something, they will get hired ... that is what has happened to Vick.

As an example ... let's image you are going to hire one person. You have 2 top candidates that are way better than the others. They are dead even on qualifications. But ... one is a former felon. The former felon is likely to lose the position.

But ... what if the former felon is head and shoulders above your other candidates. Do you simply pass them over and take a weak candidate? I don't think so.

[Safetykitten]

260. We get it. You LOVE MV.

[JoePhilly]

370. Best you could do??

How sad.

[Critters2]

250. That's how it works with normal felons. I volunteer at a homeless shelter

filled with felons who can't live in public housing and can't get jobs with which to pay rent. And for whom the president hasn't shown a moment's concern. All because they can't throw a football.

[michaz]

282. So then, if a person embezzled money from where he worked

would you like him to get hired at the bank that handles your accounts? There is a reason why many felons aren't hired in certain jobs. It often boils down to trust. Employers aren't too excited about hiring people who can't be trusted and people that are felons have already proven there is a problem. That is why you often find them working at places that are below their level jobs.

[Critters2]

182. No, actually, in most cases they don't. I volunteer at a homeless shelter,

and nearly all the residents are convicted felons. They live in the shelter because felons are not legally allowed to live in public housing. They can't get jobs to earn rent to live in private residences because no one will hire a felon. Most of these have done way less disgusting things than Vick--theft, assaults against human beings (usually barroom fights in which the violence was mutual), that sort of thing. But they'll pay for their crimes for the rest of their lives, because they aren't gifted at throwing a football.

So, yeah, why shouldn't he be banned from the NFL? And from having any job. And from having a place to live. You know, like all the felons you aren't sticking up for.

[Throd]

189. I'm not sticking up for Michael Vick.

If I ran the Eagles, I wouldn't hire him. I'm sticking up for people to return to their previous employment after they have served their sentence.

[Critters2]

194. Which is almost never a possibility. Unless they play football.

And "only" tortured dogs.

[Throd]

199. Or are famous in any 1,000 other ways.

Are you telling me that rich, famous and attractive people are held to different standards? You should alert the media.

As soon as Vick is no longer profitable for the NFL, they will drop him like a hot turd. That is how professional sports works. I'm not supporting it, just explaining it.

[Safetykitten]

206. The last time I looked Lohan was not strapping dogs in a rape device, but

on the other hand, Mel Gibson went that "standard" to far. And he did not even electrocute a dogs balls.

But enjoy his Beaver movie in your sliding scale universe.

[Throd]

209. Try a little less brandy in the eggnog.

Now you're just lashing out at shapes and colors.

[blondeatlast]

216. Madison avenue has dropped him like a hot turd. Hence his much-ballyhooed "atonement."

Just as sincere as GWB's concern for the good folks of N'Awlins.

[flvegan]

198. Yes.

Someone that spends their signing bonus to start a dog-fighting ring probably shouldn't be allowed back in after he's busted. I'd say the same thing about anyone that spent their signing bonus to start an underground child sex trade travel company and got busted for it.

[Throd]

207. I agree completely.

[krawhitham]

328. He should be banned from breathing

[Safetykitten]

183. Ok kids, now we are in the "specific punishment" phase. Betty Davis flight rules now.

[michaz]

184. Statistics show that those that abuse animals also abuse humans.

This guy is not the least bit sorry for what he did. He is sorry he got caught and lost millions. I firmly believe in 2nd chances for many but not for this guy or guys like him. Not even all of his dogs got 2nd chances because they were not able to be retrained and become adoptable. I don't believe in 2nd chances for child molesters either. Many of them got 2nd chances, served their time and got out only to do it again and kill their victims. Do you really think they deserved a 2nd chance and that their victims deserved to die simply because they deserved a 2nd chance? Not everyone who commits crimes deserve 2nd chances. This guy is one of them! And shame on the President for not seeing the difference.

[TBF]

188. Exactly - this guy has shown zero remorse for his crimes. nt

[JoePhilly]

197. Which humans has Vick abused?

[Critters2]

205. Give it time. nt

[JoePhilly]

210. Yawn.

[michaz]

219. I didn't say he did. I said that statistics show that is a strong possibility.

I do not know if he has or hasn't. I do know that what he did was not normal. It was just another way to find his version of enjoyment and make more money. Obviously he didn't feel he had enough.

[JoePhilly]

239. You were using the "statistics" to imply something more ... no??

I mean, why mention those "statistics" (no link to them btw) for any other reason.

I could get links that show that children who have been abused are more likely than others to abuse their own kids. But does that statistic tell us anything about a specific parent who was abused as a child and whether they abuse their own kids .... no.

As for your statement of "normal". I would disagree in the sense that dog fighting, like bull fighting, and even hunting, are LEARNED behaviors. Sadly, these are taught as social activities in many places. As for dog-fighting helping him make more money ... no. There is no real money in dog fighting. And nothing that comes close to what he was making as an NFL quarterback prior to going to jail.

Vick grew up poor, learned early that dog fights were a social event, and apparently used them to connect his pre-NFL life with his NFL-life. And he ended up in jail as a result.

Who knows what will happen next. We'll all have to wait and see.

[michaz]

245. Absolutely not!! I was not implying anything more than what you read.

Google it, you can find and read on it yourself. It is a fact. I have no idea if he ever abused a human. I was simply stating that there can be a connection. Police find especially domestic abuse connected to animal abuse. I can show you many people who grew up poor and they have never done anything illegal. Guess we are back to right from wrong and legal from illegal. Bet he knew that and obviously did it anyway.

[JoePhilly]

251. Go back and read your own post ...

You led with the abuse statistic (no link) and then never mention it again. Your intent is obvious.

Now above, you move to domestic abuse and animal abuse ... any indication that Vick abuses his wife? Got any links?

And yes, not all poor turn to illegal activity. I was poor as a kid. Stayed out of trouble, got multiple degrees, do very well now. But, having been poor, and having been tempted over and over, I know what the risks are. I could have easily sold drugs to make money. Some how, I made it out.

I agree that Vick as an adult knew Dog fighting was wrong. No doubt at all. But it seems to be part of his past that he, for what ever reason, did not give up.

And as a result, he went to jail.

[michaz]

268. What is wrong with you? I led with that because I was trying to say that

animal abuse can lead to human abuse. Nothing less, nothing more. I know this because of the board that I am on that is working in my county in NYS to educate people and change laws regarding animal abuse. The sheriff's department is involved with this board and it is he who brought the statistics to a meeting. Tell me where I specifically stated that Vick abused any human, his family or otherwise. You are obviously working with your mind in overdrive and I suggest you put it in neutral and take a look at what I said. Now to get to your other remarks...I grew up with an alcoholic father, I could have easily been a drinker. I made a conscious decision not to drink much just because of that. I am sick and tired of people placing blame on their upbringings, their financial situations and their parents for their making the wrong decisions as adults, knowing right from wrong. Sometimes certain situations do make a difference. But this is not to be blamed on Vick's upbringing. Watching any animal or human be tortured or torturing it is something that we as humans have within us to not be able to watch or perform. No one with one ounce of compassion or with a heart and brain would be able to. Something is seriously wrong with someone who can and does. So there within, lies the reason to your remark, "It seems to be part of his past that he, for what ever reason, did not give up." Now get out of my head, because you are totally wrong about what my intent is.

[Safetykitten]

258. What, are you Mother Teresa of the Falcons?

Just admit you would pass out if you met MV.

[sylveste]

317. he's abused

a few cornerbacks and safeties this year. ;)

[michaz]

195. And this is why I like animals better than I like many humans! n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

231. I enjoy watching Michael Vick play football.

He's a great athlete and is very entertaining to watch. That's what it pretty much boils down to.
I don't watch NFL players (or any entertainers) "do their things" because they are great humanitarians.

It's not my place to "forgive" the man's actions.
Nor is it yours.

[Safetykitten]

240. It's funny how a football field has magical powers.

There is no past.

Everything is in the moment, without a history or future.

The men playing are given special rights, do not judge them, who are you to judge THEM?

No wonder this country is so fucked up.

[niyad]

326. I know several people (who really should know better) who excuse vick because he had a tough

childhood, and didn't know any better. of course, they also excuse all the football players accused of assault, because of the high testosterone levels, and it being the woman's fault for arousing them beyond their ability to control themselves.

[Name removed]

236. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Safetykitten]

241. Let me know which one.

[blondeatlast]

243. Thank you, dear teechur, for that erudite and beautifully stated reply. Now, could you explain just

what you mean?

Is Mr/s. Kitten not allowed to have an opinion? Wrong? Or do you just disagree with the post?

Incomplete. Finish the assignment within 24 hours or I'm afraid the reply will fail.

[mythology]

316. Apparently it's anybody who

disagrees with the original post that isn't allowed to have an opinion without being called names. It's not like the original poster or the majority of those who agree with him or her are actually participating in a real discussion. They offer a lot of self-righteous ranting, but most of it utterly devoid of substance and any questions are met with derisive scoffing or labeling.

I doubt anybody here has enough actual knowledge of Michael Vick to know whether or not he is sincerely remorseful. But I do know that I can appreciate somebody's talents without having to approve of their actions as a person. I'm even capable of admiring the skill of somebody who intentionally gave me a concussion at the same activity in which he injured me. Now that injury wasn't anywhere near as severe as what Michael Vick did to the dogs, but then again it was my brain and I'm kind of partial to it.

[blondeatlast]

319. It's on the left of your post and someone (not me) used it and the mods took care of it.

Um--you do realize this is an opinion board and unlike other political boards, we ARE allowed to respectfully disagree. "ncteechur" didn't do that--and it's hardly the first time.

[Safetykitten]

255. Obama will be calling Mike Tyson's agent soon. He's doing great now. Movies,

moving on, he's on a roll.

Who else could President Obama call and give kudos to for turning it around?

[TBF]

261. Well, Charlie Sheen is out of jail right now, and reportedly still alive -

so he could call him and congratulate him on ... not beating anyone up lately.

[Safetykitten]

277. Well yes, he's a great example. President make that call!

[Foo Fighter]

278. Bernie Madoff.

He hasn't stolen any money lately. Well, not that we know of anyway.

[Safetykitten]

284. Another sucess story. Speed dial Mr. Pesident.

[taught_me_patience]

256. The guy spent two years in jail which led to financial ruin

Doesn't he have a right to rebuild his life? Shit man, they guy paid his debt to society and has become a real redemption story.

[Safetykitten]

259. And?

[TBF]

262. Kinda reminds me of that "where's the beef" commercial from years ago -

Where's the redemption? What has he done in terms of admitting his past behavior and atoning for same? He has served the prison sentence, that's it. He never has once admitted exactly what he did to those dogs, and he has not expressed remorse, only whined about not being able to have another dog. Frankly I wouldn't trust him with a cockroach, but that's just me.

[Critters2]

272. Define "real redemption". He's never shown any remorse, but is running

a hell of a PR campaign.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

279. I should have such "financial ruin." Not that that's the point, of course...

He's welcome to pursue his craft. We don't have to cheer him.

[blondeatlast]

318. "Financial ruin"? Um, I think his (likely corrupt) financial advisers did that, not the jail time.

We should all suffer such "financial ruin."

[adigal]

270. I do dog rescue, sometimes dogs used as pit bait

or pits who didn't fight well.

Michael Vick should have been hung from his...you know what.

THAT might have evened the score a bit. Anyone who hurts animals and children are sick, sick human beings.

[Tx4obama]

291. Advocating human torture is pretty sick in my opinion.

If people would value HUMAN life more than animals, the world would be a better place.

[TBF]

314. I believe that the world would be a better place if all lives were valued -

not just celebrities and those with money. And I have to admit when you put a human who tortures and murders up against a dog, I'm going to pick the dog as the more valued species any day of the week.

[Abq_Sarah]

329. I certainly don't value any human

Who tortures animals for kicks.

[Safetykitten]

290. I think Ed Rendell should have some guys who just got out of prison

come to the suite where he and his pals watch the games.

It's all about paying the debt.

[TexasObserver]

296. Yes, he paid his debt. He served time. He's out now.

Some of us actually believe in the liberal principle of a person being able to serve their time and return to their life.

If you want someone not to forgive, there's a congress and a military full of people who actually killed thousands of human beings. I realize that humans don't matter as much as dogs in some circles, but humans generally disagree with that point of view.

I'm not a fan of his. I don't even know who he plays for and don't care.

I do care that some think killing or maiming a dog is the ultimate crime. In some cultures, dogs are food. Whatever one may think of them, they're not human.

[Name removed]

301. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TBF]

302. Some of us don't forgive the perpetrators for their war crimes either - no matter which party

they're in - so don't assume we do.

[TexasObserver]

311. Forgiveness is not the issue. Respecting the time served is.

Either one believes that even criminals deserve a second chance or they don't.

I believe criminals deserve a second chance. That's considered a liberal point of view, and has been for at least the past four decades.
The desire to label convicted criminals unworthy of human treatment is not one commonly seen among liberals. In fact, it's unusual. Part of being a liberal is caring about the imprisoned, even when they've committed heinous crimes.

I believe over half of our incarcerations are unnecessary and self defeating. I'm not a punitive person. I'm a liberal.

I like animals, but I don't lose sight of the fact that they're not humans. When it comes to humans and animals, I care more about humans.

[TBF]

313. We disagree then -

A second chance in most cases - but not always. I wouldn't have given Timothy McVey a 2nd chance after he willingly and knowingly bombed a building with a daycare center in it (obvious and open - with children inside). No, some things are too heinous.

And you are right that we consider humans and animals differently. A human that causes so much suffering to multiple animals - I think less of that human than an animal.

[Name removed]

330. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissDeeds]

325. Agreed

Vick is sorry about one thing - that he got caught. He saw the horror that his dog fighting caused, saw their torn bodies, heard the cries and screams of tortured animals, and yet he continued his "sport" over and over again. He only stopped when he was arrested.

He is indeed "a sick f--k". I think Obama's words of support say as much about his character as Vick's.

[niyad]

327. just read this little article about the sentencing-- and vick's lies and bs.

even more disgusting than I thought

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3148549

[elias7]

333. Obama's position is progressive; the OP's is socially conservative

interesting

[Bluebear]

334. Sorry, I don't take cruelty to animals lightly.

[elias7]

337. no one here does

and my post was not about you

[TBF]

336. If that is "progressive" then you can have it. Some of us actually

care about the victims of crimes.

[elias7]

339. all of us care

that's not what distinguishes a progressive from a conservative viewpoint

[meow mix]

344. then your having a murderer and a rapist over for dinner?

if not, then your a hypocrite

[elias7]

345. Wow, how did you get there? We're not talking about me. Please reread.

[KansasVoter]

338. Jesus, you animal rights people are over the top

[TBF]

340. And you cheerleaders will support absolutely anything Mr. Obama does - no matter how repulsive. nt

[robcon]

341. What's repulsive about the reclamation of Michael Vick?

Forgive. And Forget.

[TBF]

342. Read the thread. nt

[robcon]

346. I've read the thread. I celebrate Vick... a new man.

n/t

[TBF]

365. OK, in your world he's a new man. I wouldn't want him within 100

feet of my children or dog. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Name removed]

347. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elias7]

348. Thank you, nice post. The extremist mindset is always troubling...

[Safetykitten]

349. So, any felons over your place lately?

[LynneSin]

350. Felons no. Ex-Felons yes

Felons who have completed their time in jail and their parole - yes.

Why? Would you like to meet that person?

BTW a very nice person, he's the brother of a friend. Like Vick he made stupid mistakes and has many regrets of what he has done in the past but he's trying hard to make a difference for his future. Unfortunately not like Vick, this guy doesn't have an NFL career to fall back on, but he is getting the help he needs.

[Safetykitten]

352. Great. Did he get any calls from elected officials with effusive praise?

[LynneSin]

355. What does it matter?

And what's really sad is you haven't even bothered to find out the reason why Obama was calling Jeff Lurie. You just saw the one part it was and jumped on the bandwagon of all these Vick threads in the GD. What you fail to realize is that Obama called for another very valid reason and one I think that could have an impact in professional sports. Eagles owner Jeff Lurie is going to altar the Lincoln Financial Field so that it runs on alternative energies in hopes of lowering the huge carbon footprint left by the team and stadium.

BTW I hope this puts you over the edge - Vick was leading as the NFL Pro Bowl fan favorite up until the very end (Tom Brady came on strong at the end). Should send you in a tizzy that most of America is giving this guy a second chance. Go wallow yourself in your anger and hate!

[cleanhippie]

360. And ANOTHER strawman.

[Safetykitten]

373. Ok, let's talk about your felon friend. What was his crime?

[cleanhippie]

375. Moving the goalposts now, huh?

Didn't get the answer you wanted so now you try to move the goalposts and make what specific crime the issue now.

Epic fail.

[cleanhippie]

359. ANOTHER strawman.

You ignore the reality of the situation and the facts of the matter, instead opting to spew nonsense and emotional hyperbole.

[ileus]

361. Now get out there and win the Super Bowl.

[AngryAmish]

362. He's black. Get over it.

[TBF]

367. Nothing to do with it - Timothy McVeigh is the only other felon I can think of that I've detested

so much and he was white. But everything is about race for some folks.

[Bluebear]

380. That's helpful.

[denem]

363. Stupid Kick for Vick

[Name removed]

364. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TBF]

366. All these new members defending Vick in the past few days - hmmm. nt

[atl_easy_b]

368. And your point is???

[uppityperson]

371. That you, and others, are ts'd.

[atl_easy_b]

369. And your point is???

[WillParkinson]

376. Proper Punishment...

Mr. Vick alone in a room with hungry dogs while wearing...

http://www.mtv.com/photos/top-10-moments-of-the-2010-vmas/1647804/5199587/photo.jhtml

Lady Gaga's meat suit.

[treestar]

377. Yes, he did, that is how the law works

If you want life imprisonment for every crime, say so.

I am not a fan of his at all and don't care what President Obama said about him.

I do not want people free on the streets who are not considered to be full members of society. If Vick is a football player, when out of jail, he should play football, as anyone who did the same thing should go back to whatever they were doing.

[TBF]

379. Best Friends Animal Sanctuary is still waiting for their call from the president -

Now that President Obama has jumped on the Michael Vick bandwagon with an official call to Eagles’ owner Jeffrey Lurie to congratulate him for giving the quarterback another chance, all of us here at Best Friends are waiting for a call from the White House to congratulate us for giving Vick’s dogs a second chance. I’m quite sure that the other organizations that also took on some of the canine survivors of the football star’s dogfighting operation are similarly poised.

The conventional wisdom on this is that the president’s people have put their finger to the wind and decided that Michael Vick has been sanitized for political consumption by his success. (It’s interesting to speculate how he would be perceived if he were having a lousy year.) Personally, I’m kind of tired of hearing and reading about Michael Vick and wish that the media would lose its obsession with the man, especially since any mention of or concern about the dogs who managed to escape with their lives from his care is conspicuously absent from his public statements.

While we no longer wait by the phone for a call from Mr. Vick asking after his dogs, the likelihood of a call from the president has brought new esprit to the switchboard team and I’ve put together some notes on those we call the Vicktory dogs in case someone puts the historic call through to me by mistake. The conversation will go something like this:

“Mr. President, what a surprise! Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to commend us for giving the Vicktory dogs a second chance. Sure, I’ve got a few minutes to fill you in … kind of a presidential briefing, I guess...

Much more at the link - http://blogs.bestfriends.org/index.php/2010/12/29/when-the-president-calls-about-the-vick-dogs/