What's the difference between a veil like Princess Kate wore and a Burka?

[Electric Monk]

Ceremony?

It covered her face and eyes with a translucent material for most of the ceremony.

Is there a certain percentage that's ok? 42%? 23%? 15%?

[pinto]

1. Choice.

:hi:

[blondeatlast]

46. Sometimes, it really is as simple as it seems. nt

[SidDithers]

47. +1...nt

Sid

[sakabatou]

2. Choice is pretty much it

[Starbucks Anarchist]

3. Choice and a shorter timeframe.

[Quantess]

16. There's the answer I was looking for.

Thank you.

[Gormy Cuss]

52. Exactly.

A symbolic veil for an hour is very different from feeling or being compelled to wear it every day.

The symbolic veiling of brides is historically a pretty weird tradition, as other several other parts of the wedding like giving away the bride.

[Blue-Jay]

4. Look up "burka" and then start a new thread.

Because this one is stupid.

[Electric Monk]

Degree? Duration? Help me quantify it, if you care about the answer.

[Blue-Jay]

9. "care about the answer"?

:rofl:

No. I don't care about your "answer". You began with a false comparison, and it'll only get worse as you try to gin up some outrage. No thank you.

[Tunkamerica]

5. several thousand pounds

[Electric Monk]

11. That's all? I thought the "muslim problem" was there were millions of em

:shrug:

[Fla_Democrat]

45. Think it weighs that much?

:evilgrin:








:smoke:

[Ohio Joe]

6. Really?

Seriously?

[kenny blankenship]

7. For one thing, she could take it off. Saw pictures after ceremony - veil lifted, out in public

waving to crowds, who amazingly enough did not threaten to behead her or rape her to teach her a lesson about modesty.

So i guess I'm have a real hard time taking this bullshit seriously, is what I'm saying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Religious book

do I really need to go to bible studies now?

granted, perhaps it is time we collectively leave behind our bronze age RELIGIONS.. but do you really need to learn where this comes from?

By the way... do tell me, is she so religious she is going to shave her heard, wear a whig and never show her legs to anybody but her husband?

By the way, it is that same area of... the Bible, plus a few Suras, that explain the Burqa.

[Electric Monk]

Sadly yes, you do. The audience is that ignorant. And, They're gonna love us for saying so. LOL.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Well then

lets just say a certain groom worked seven years to marry his bride. but his father in law... tricked him (why the veil is raised in the middle)... and he had to work another seven years to marry his love... for the same man...

Add a few suras, and way too many centuries and a few hundreds of thousands of camels and sheep....

Oy...

But going back to your question... at least there was NO maypole involved...

[Obamanaut]

34. Can one "wear a whig" or "shave a heard"? nt

[Raine]

10. Most brides wear veils FOR THEIR WEDDING then

they TAKE THEM OFF and LEAVE THEM OFF FOREVER!!! See the difference...

[Hannah Bell]

12. nothing. they're both conventions & traditions that ultimately derive from the same sources.

people are idiots about this shit.

there is always "choice" even if that choice involves hard consequences, like having to leave your family, your home, etc.

but since most people who wear a burka think about it in the same way we think about wearing underwear, i.e. they don't think about it, they do it because everyone else does & they grew up doing it --

people are idiots about this shit.

the ptb are happy to have you debate dress codes 6 ways to sunday.

but when they decide that they need muslim women workers en masse, you'll see what happens.

[cali]

23. lots of things that are quite different derive from the same thing.

this is an excellent example of such.

[Hannah Bell]

25. yeah, capitalist "choice" about clothing is so important.

[Quantess]

13. Complete FAIL. Unrecommended.

:thumbsdown:

[Quantess]

14. I take that back, sort of. It's an interesting question, actually.

...I need to chew on it some more...

[Electric Monk]

17. Thank you. nt

[Quantess]

20. Very interesting question.

Not, "what's the difference"?
But rather, aren't there some similarities?

[Liquorice]

18. It's a choice and it's just for ceremony. The face can also be seen

completely through the wedding veil. A wedding veil is not meant to hide the face from the world. It is purely symbolic in nature, and not for everyday attire like the burqa. In modern times, I believe it's not even seen as symbolic for many women, but more ceremonial (or even fashionable) without a lot of deep meaning behind it. Maybe some women wear it simply because it's tradition. I didn't wear a veil at my wedding because I personally didn't like that tradition or the symbolism. I wore a beautiful wreath of flowers instead. In countries where the burqa is required, women are not allowed to wear a wreath of flowers instead of the burqa.

[Hannah Bell]

26. many women wear burka simply because it's tradition.

the original purpose/symbolism of the wedding veil was the same as "the veil". same as the nun's veil, same as the headscarf, same as catholic mantillas. all these female head coverings come out of the same religious tradition & symbolize/express the same things.

your post is just rationalizing our modernized/commodified branch of the tradition v. their less modernized/commodified, i.e. more "traditional" tradition.

it's so funny how posters with a hard-on about burkas can't see how deeply capitalism (personal "choice") is ingrained in their own notions of what's "right".

[Lil Missy]

19. Major FAIL.

[SoCalDem]

21. One is a symbol , the other is a stark reality of day to day life, imposed upon women

Some (most?)bridal ensembles includes a veil (SEE-THROUGH), and in some ceremonies, the groom lifts the veil in a symbolic gesture..I have seen ceremonies where the father-of-the-bride lifts it, and then "gives the hand of his daughter" to her soon-to-be husband..


weddings at city hall (secular) usually include none of the trappings of the religious symbolic weddings..


the garter?..the new husband claiming what only he has access to..(under the skirt)



Something old, something new
Something borrowed, something blue
And a silver sixpence in her shoe.

A sixpence is a coin that was minted in Britain from 1551 to 1967. It was made of silver and worth six pennies. So this wedding tradition is definitely English, and many sources say that it began in the Victorian era.

Each item in this poem represents a good-luck token for the bride. If she carries all of them on her wedding day, her marriage will be happy.

"Something old" symbolizes continuity with the bride's family and the past. "

Something new" means optimism and hope for the bride's new life ahead.

"Something borrowed" is usually an item from a happily married friend or family member, whose good fortune in marriage is supposed to carry over to the new bride. The borrowed item also reminds the bride that she can depend on her friends and family.

As for the colorful item, blue has been connected to weddings for centuries. In ancient Rome, brides wore blue to symbolize love, modesty, and fidelity. Christianity has long dressed the Virgin Mary in blue, so purity was associated with the color. Before the late 19th century, blue was a popular color for wedding gowns, as evidenced in proverbs like, "Marry in blue, lover be true."

And finally, a silver sixpence in the bride's shoe represents wealth and financial security. It may date back to a Scottish custom of a groom putting a silver coin under his foot for good luck. For optimum fortune, the sixpence should be in the left shoe. These days, a dime or a copper penny is sometimes substituted, and many companies sell keepsake sixpences for weddings.
http://ask.yahoo.com/20031027.html

.................................................................

All these customs, are for show only and once the wedding dress is put away,life goes on as before..


...................................................

The burqa is different because it's imposed upon women who wear them to avoid being beaten/stoned/shunned/killed if they choose not to wear one..

A woman can marry with or without a veil..in a fancy confection of a dress, or a regular old dress or even jean shorts on a beach, and she's free to wear whatever she wants to (unless she works for a place that requires a uniform..think UPS or US military)

Burqa-society is one where the men are apparently so uncertain of their own desirability or ability to keep their woman only unto them, that they sequester them behind walls, send them out only with trusted escorts and make them cover up to the point that they are indistinguishable and unrecognizable....not because they may stray, but because the men in their society apparently cannot control themselves if they glimpse a cheekbone or a bit of wrist..

[Hannah Bell]

lol.

[cali]

22. really? you can't see the differences? Let me explain it to you.

1) Kate's veil was ceremonial worn for a brief period of time.

2) Kate's veil was transparent to the point that you could see her features clearly.

[wickerwoman]

24. Women don't have acid spashed in their faces for refusing to wear a wedding veil.

:shrug:

[patricia92243]

27. She wanted to wear the wedding veil for a short period of time. Others make the decision for you if

you want to wear a Burka all the time (outdoors.)

[Saturday]

28. I could see Kate's face, it wasn't hidden. nt

[ReggieVeggie]

29. really, not much

Both were ideas of men and have survived intact through the ages. Both are just a way to ensure women are thought of as property of men.

[Bonobo]

30. One is US, the other is THEM.

Get it now?

Jeez...

[Electric Monk]

56. Ah, ok, thanks. Much clearer now.

[DrDan]

31. voluntary

[LynneSin]

32. What she wore is no different then what most bride CHOOSE to wear

and if you noticed by the end of the ceremony she had it removed.

Seriously, you just compared a pile of apples to horseshit.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

33. aha! Good question. This will be interesting.

The veil has a similar origin in all cultures - basically represents the subordination of women. Of course brides today choose to wear veils primarily as an adornment.

[blueamy66]

35. about $100k

Add the $40k to $400k dress (the press is announcing many different costs)....BIG difference!

[Bluenorthwest]

36. The OP is free to share with us what the OP would think of a

woman like Kate who wore her bridal costume all day everyday. What would that suggest? It was a hell of an outfit, veil or no veil. What if that was how she dressed, daily? At dinner, at breakfast, when she goes to open a new school building, always with the huge dress and ritual veil and train?
Would that send any message at all? Would it get noticed? Does the OP recommend such sartorial choices?
Also, has the OP ever worn a Burka? If not, why not. I offer that putting one on for 5 minutes would answer many of the questions the OP poses.
But first, what if Kate dressed like that daily? What would you think of her? What is the difference between the hajib and that thing Little Steven wears on his head?

[Electric Monk]

57. 1) I think it'd be silly. 2) I've never worn a burka or a veil. 3) Who is Little Steven? nt

[WatsonT]

37. She will take it off at the end of the day and no one will murder her for doing so

[robcon]

38. Lamest thread of the week, IMO.

The leap of illogic in the OP is astounding.

[Cleita]

39. Fashion and she only wore it for a few hours, not a lifetime. n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

40. Cleavage?

:hi:

[Bunny]

41. Dumbass post, and besides, someone else had the same idea

and posted about this on Friday. I know it's hard to keep up with stupid, but at least you could try...

[Sheepshank]

42. Choice of wearing it for 2 hours once in a lifetime vs. ......... n/t

[BlueMTexpat]

43. If you really wanted to know, you could simply have looked it up

in Wiki. Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

Choice is the BIG difference. The veil worn at the royal wedding was merely ceremonial, whatever its origin; lots of brides dispense with a veil altogether. I am one who did without.

You've let yourself fall into a false equivalency trap.

[BlueMTexpat]

44. It's also my understanding that Catherine, as she prefers to be called,

cannot be referred to as "Princess" because she was not born to royalty. Her title is the Duchess of Cambridge.

I don't really care one way or another about such things, but if you're going to refer to her at all, you should at least refer to her correctly.

[slackmaster]

48. I had no trouble seeing Kate's facial features through that veil. It's just mosquito netting.

Not so with the Saudi exchange students I met two weeks ago.

[WillowTree]

49. She didn't wear it "for more of the ceremony". The veil was lifted before the ceremony began.

That's one thing. And she didn't have to wear the "blusher" veil if she chose not to. Seeing as how she and Prince William have been living together for some time now, it seems kind of silly that she did. That's why I didn't and many other brides don't wear the blusher for any number of reasons.

And many choose to wear it for their own reasons, as well. It's really a foolish comparison.

[WillyT]

50. It's A Vestige From Days Of Yore...

Veils

The veil originally symbolized the bride's virginity, innocence, and modesty. The veil can be traced back to Roman times when it was a complete head to toe cover (that was later used as her burial shroud!). This symbolism has been lost over the years but the veil is still customarily worn. In some Middle Eastern and Asian cultures, the veil was worn to hide the bride's face completely from the groom who had never seen her. Only after they were married would the groom be allowed the lift the veil to see his new wife's face.

Link: http://www.brideandgroom.com/wedding-articles/wedding-traditions-2.asp

:shrug:

[mzteris]

51. some say a burka is more liberating

From We See Things Differently by Bruce Sterling

". . . "I'm Plisetskaya," she said, fluffing her yellow hair. "See? No veil." It was the old story of the so-called "liberated" Western woman. They call the simple, modest clothing of Islam "bondage" -- while they spend countless hours, and millions of dollars, painting themselves. They grow their nails like talons, cram their feet into high heels, strap their breasts and hips into spandex. All for the sake of male lust. . . ."


Interesting short story (very short. very interesting): http://www.revolutionsf.com/fiction/weseethings/01.html

[cleanhippie]

53. Do you really not know?

[JackRiddler]

54. Try on each of the two items you mention (correctly defined) and you might feel the difference.

As one happy to trash the idea of royalty as among the most despicable and corrupt elements within the global power elites, still I must say that this comparison is I presume innocently ignorant.

[sufrommich]

55. Hmmm,let's see, one choose to wear it for a couple of hours

at a ceremony, millions of others are forced to wear one daily throughout most of their lives.

[darkstar3]

58. One is a translucent face cover, the other is a whole lot more, and opaque.

Try again.

[Electric Monk]

59. So you agree, it's just a matter of degree

[darkstar3]

60. Not remotely. The two items are so ridiculously different as to make the comparison moot.

Try again.