Just had a right-winger, a banker, in my office this morning

[Mr. Ected]

Helped him settle a second mortgage for a client. Mind you, I live in rural Georgia, and may be the only liberal within a hundred miles of this place.

After the closing, he told me that his bank, a small local entity, was planning on marketing the hell out of equity lines of credit and second mortgages in 2018.

I asked him if anyone had gotten the message, that the new tax law expressly eliminates the interest deductibility on new and existing home equity loans. He looked at me incredulously, and admitted he hadn't heard that bit of news.

He offered that, perhaps, maybe, there would be some sort of offset hard-wired into the bill that would balance the scales in this regard. I told him, "nope".

He said that the bank had dropped a mint into its upcoming campaign, and that he would be conversing with the Board as soon as he got back to the office.

The bad news is beginning to trickle down to the idiots that vote GOP. We will all suffer, for sure, but the suffering of those who felt so much faux pain over the past several years and elected a bunch of fascists as their saviors is particularly delicious.

[Sophia4]

1. In my view, Paul Ryan will not be re-elected if the reality of that tax bill

and his plans for Food Stamps, Social Security and Medicare are realized.

[Demsrule86]

4. I think he is going for broke...try to push his poison through and then retire.

[C Moon]

31. Or he expects to be president.

[SCantiGOP]

34. His plan is very clear and obvious

Watch Trump and the GOP go down in flames in 2018,
The Dems come in and raise taxes and adjust the budget to save the economy,
Run against the damned "they raise taxes every time they get into power" Democrats.

We are always fixated on "the one-third", i.e., Trump's base. But I think after Trump the 2/3 will be much more skeptical of the old GOP bait and switch and much less likely to fall for it.

[Hortensis]

51. I suspect Ryan is a genuine extremist libertarian.

Total individual freedom a holy grail for him, a cleansing of society of those too weak to put a roof over their head without Social Security also. On the practical side, his patrons the Kochs are at very least pretenses of what he is, and if he wants to be reelected he has to please them first.

Truly, unlike many corrupt others, I believe he's genuinely happy at what was just achieved, his problem how to continue his revolution until all social programs are gone.

[Chemisse]

68. I agree. He is a zealot.

Possibly so much so that he will sacrifice his career to get the draconian cuts he so lusts after.

[True Blue American]

71. What is worse about Ryan

Is the fact that both Ryan and his Mother lived on SS after his Father died young.

To me,that makes Ryan a monster. Not fit for office. But he will not win this one.

[Scarsdale]

74. My Social Security check

will increase a whopping $11.00 monthly starting in Jan. The politicians do not concern themselves with raises, they get plenty of $$$ from lobbyists. They ALL retire with millions, plus retirement checks and full benefits.

[Tracer]

83. $11 ?

Count yourself lucky. Mine went up $4.00. Might be enough for a coffee at Dunkin' Donuts.

[Hortensis]

77. Not honestly. But zealots are motivated by their ideals.

Look at how one of our candidates tried to overset the primary election by superdelegate fiat, his belief in the nobility of his goals justifying sacrificing democracy itself to achieve them. And so do Ryan's.

Libertarians foolishly envision a world of stronger, healthier, freer people, who will pay far less for healthcare when prices are set by free market forces without government interference.

He's a zealot because that has never worked and never will. Any third world economic laboratory is proof. But the rise and ruthless lust for power and wealth of a billionaire class right here--which government didn't stop--is also proof.

But zealots are hardly known for wisdom, or restraint. I agree with Chemisse that he may well invest his current career in making this happen, any way it takes.

And I agree with you that he's a monster because he doesn't care what 200 million registered voters want or what a giant national experiment would do to the lives of 330 million.

And because people suffering from the (new and huge but ultimately passing) epidemics of heart, kidney and endocrine disease that developed with new ways of working and living have no place in his free world. A very different definition of what "problem" to attack and how to solve it than what public health experts are working on.

[Eliot Rosewater]

87. No, he is a prick who is greedy and will at the drop of a hat use government programs

to better his life but wants to take them away because when he was a teenager he saw a black woman in line with food stamps holding up the line.

He would not last one day without the government, he is a punk and a prick and I would call him more names but you get the point.

[LiberalFighter]

63. There needs to be a way where scum like him suffer financially and

become persona non grata.

[Demsrule86]

80. That would be great but I don't see it happening.

[AJT]

5. Ryan represents a very very white part of very very white WI. The people he represents

think "those people" in Milwaukee are getting free stuff paid for with their hard earned money so getting rid of food stamps and the like would make them happy.

[a kennedy]

11. Got tonsO people here in little ol Dakota,MN that think the same way.....

free stuff, free stuff, free stuff. Ugh, but many receive SSI, and unemployment benefits, AND even food stamps, but OMGOSH, it’s always someone else that is getting all the FREE STUFF.

[geardaddy]

18. What CD are you in?

Who's your State Rep and Senator? I only ask because I'm in Minneapolis and like to know what's going on in outstate MN.

[a kennedy]

26. First CD, Tim Walz, Amy and used to be Al Franken

[geardaddy]

32. Oh, I thought you might be in Lewis' CD.

As for senator, I meant State Senator and State rep.

[a kennedy]

40. Oooops, sorry here:

Senator Jeremy R. Miller, and Gene Pelowski (DFL)

[geardaddy]

41. Thanks. Jeremy Miller looks like a dick.

[a kennedy]

45. Ha ha ha, hes ok for a repub, but ya sure looks like one.......

[Plucketeer]

29. It's always someone else

getting "free stuff" that doesn't deserve it - unlike the complainers - that rightfully have the free stuff coming to them.

[Demsrule86]

42. I lived in Janesville for a couple of years...and that is not true.

They elect Ryan because he is the hometown boy who did good. Many I knew voted for Obama and Ryan.

[HelenWheels]

84. Ryan might be a hometown boy but he didn't do good.

[Demsrule86]

85. He is a Congressman and now House leader...they think that is 'good'. I agree with you.

I hear old Ryan may be in trouble though...folks usually hate the majority leader. Also some of the stuff he wants to do is not popular with his constituents.

[guillaumeb]

2. Yet another well informed conservative voter.

Unfortunately, we all suffer when uninformed voters vote.

[SWBTATTReg]

3. Not surprised...just wait until all of the other 'bricks' drop and people

realize just actually what has been passed 100% in this new tax law...

Thanks for passing along this tidbit of news...I appreciate the irony of it too...

[getagrip_already]

25. yeah, wait until interest rates rise.....

and all of those variable rate home interest loans also go up.

A double whammy. Trumps new fed chairman wants rates to rise. It's good for lenders. Borrowers, not so much.....

[Eliot Rosewater]

6. The many many millions of GOP voters in blue states who will pay WAY more now in taxes

will scream, but it wont matter

They will find out that who matters is a few thousand rich people and nobody else.

[Hoyt]

7. I think most people will look at it that they can borrow say $50K and the value of the loss in

deductions will be less than $70/month. That is definitely a deterrent to borrowing, but not so large to stop a lot of folks who are seeing their home equity increase pretty rapidly. To the extent it's a deterrent, that might be a good thing for some folks.

People didn't stop using credit cards when interest was made non-deductible around 1986 or so.

But the fact this "banker" didn't even know that . . . . . . .

[TheOther95Percent]

8. Interesting Point

The Tax Reform of 1986 also eliminated the interest deduction for student loan debt. It didn't stop me from going to graduate school or using my credit cards. It did make me a Democrat. Those wee little deductions made a difference to me when I was still in an entry level job earning relatively little money.

It proved my grandmother's point too. I would never be rich enough to vote Republican.

[mainer]

12. Except the value of their homes will drop

because the loss of the mortgage deduction will be driving the prices of higher-end homes down. This will probably lead to a downward swing of all homes.

[Hoyt]

15. Not much. Most homes have been increasing at a pretty good clip. Lower priced homes will still

have deductible interest. How many people have a $900,000+ home that are going to panic if the price goes down a percent or two? There is already a cap on $1 Million mortgage loans.

[mainer]

17. Interesting analysis by Newsweek journalist

about the tax bill and effect on home prices. He explains it on twitter:

Link to tweet

?lang=en

[Hoyt]

23. The 2 or 3% values of higher priced homes might drop, won't make that much difference.

If I had the money, I could buy a $900,000 home on 1/1/2018, pay 20% down, and still get to deduct all my mortgage interest.

The median priced homes -- around $225,000 -- are a long way from that cap and probably the $10K cap on state taxes. I get there are localities that are high cost, but we are talking mostly about people with much higher incomes.

Fact is, if I took out a mortgage of $850,000, I would lose after taxes only about $1,400 in 2018 because of the interest I could no longer deduct on the $100K above the threshold.

Someone who can afford a house with an $850K mortgage (that's over a $ Million home) can probably absorb that $1,400 and the impact of the state/local tax cap. If they can't, they need to buy a cheaper house, perhaps increasing prices in that range a percent or two.

[pnwmom]

27. That's not what history teaches. When prices of higher end homes go down, there's a downward

pressure on the market in general and all home prices end up going down.

[Hoyt]

30. Probably because there is a general economic downturn at the same time.

Somehow, I don't think a $250,000 home is going to be impacted by limiting interest rate deductions for mortgages over $750K.

In fact, one could make an argument the price might go up for lower-priced houses because tapped out people who buy higher priced houses when they can't afford them, get sensible.

[pnwmom]

38. "Probably." OR people might realize that the original plan was to get rid of ALL mortgage deductions

and nobody should assume their mortgage deduction is safe.

Just wondering. Are you also fine with the deduction for ALL home equity loans being eliminated?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

62. I'm inclined to agree that home prices won't drop that much.

Definitely not in the long run, and probably not in the short run.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but where I live, Santa Fe, when home prices here stagnated, the owners of the pricier homes just didn't even try to sell. They knew they could wait for prices to rebound.

[uponit7771]

82. 2nd mortgages This has never only affected higher price home markets

[mainer]

44. It's worth reading the rest of his Twitter analysis

(continuing from above tweet)

...6. Flooding a strong economy with $ leads to inflation.

7. Monetary policy must counter that kind of reckless fiscal policy.

8. Fed will increase interest rates to avoid runaway inflation.

9. Higher interest rates make mortgages less affordable

10. Home values drop further

The cycle of home value collapse caused by the 1986 tax bill led to the collapse of the savings and loan industry in 1989. Cost us $500 bill in bailout.

The cycle of home value collapse caused by unregulated Wall Street push of subprime loans led to bank collapses of 2008....
....it doesn't happen immediately. Home prices have to absorb the impact, and people are resistant to dropping prices of an illiquid asset to recognize market changes. But drop they will. It is unavoidable.

Housing crash number 3 is on the way.

...for those saying "It's only for houses more than $750,000."

1. That's 4 million houses.

2. Housing prices is the only place where trickle down is real. The top price falls, the next one down falls and on and on. It is a cascade....

....
3. 1986 bill only went after second homes. Those prices fell, setting off the cascade. S&L industry collapsed. We paid $500 billion bailout.

But it gets worse.....

....
4. The tax bill allows deductibility for only $10,000 of property taxes and sales taxes combined.

5. That affects $500 billion.

6. That $500 bill is ALSO included in home values.

7. Red states, like Texas, rely on property and sales taxes to fund schools.....

...8. So not only will the prices of homes collapse as interest rates go up - and banks fail - but funding of schools will collapse. Not as badly as economy though.

This is what happens when you have a tax bill written without input from economists.

[RandomAccess]

57. OMG -- That sounds like a bonafide depression in the making.

Whew!

[Hoyt]

64. I dont remember housing prices tanking when the million dollar threshold was set in 1986.

But I guess this time is different.

[uponit7771]

90. +1

[dhol82]

43. Standing on line to prepay my school taxes, I got into a discussion with another homeowner.

She is in the process of putting her home on the market and had a discussion with her broker
Evidently, Coldwell-Banker had an emergency meeting yesterday of their regional offices to figure out what to do with this disaster. She didn’t get a lot of info but was told that the selling price of her house would have to be lowered substantially. She just recovered from breast cancer and her husband had a cardiac event last week. They can’t really move far from this area because they rely on their daughter for supplemental care. So they are in limbo at the moment.
I don’t see this being a permanent situation. Too many republicans are affected.

[uponit7771]

59. +1, it doesn't take much to affect house prices

[CreekDog]

72. I usually agree with you on most things, but you need a reality check man

I'm in one of the most unaffordable places in the country.

Housing is so expensive here that the tax deduction is often the difference between getting a place, and that may not be a house, but a tiny condo, even for a family.

Here is what you're glossing over:

First, the loss of deductibility increases the cost of housing for those who have housing and for those who want to buy. PERIOD. Especially because the hit is the loss of the State Income tax deduction combined with limiting the property tax deduction, not to mention making the median home here beyond the deductibility limit. The MEDIAN home.

Second, there are TWO possibilities here, in BOTH cases, the net costs go up even if prices go down.

1) People are screwed because the after-tax cost of housing just got more unaffordable because simply, it costs more of our net income, whether we currently have a place or are trying to get one.

2) People are screwed because the prices have gone down, therefore, they have lost equity, but are still paying the same mortgage, but out of pocket costs have gone up due to loss of deductibility.

You probably will argue supply and demand and I'll tell you that even during the great recession, there weren't a lot of properties to buy because, guess what, those of us who were underwater, lots of us, couldn't sell to cover our mortgages so there wasn't much inventory.

So you drop the prices but you literally see little benefit from doing so, because the net cost of housing goes up for owners and buyers compared to before, even if the prices drop.

[gratuitous]

9. No sense letting this ad campaign go to waste

My guess is they'll just lie to their customers who ask about the interest deduction, and they won't volunteer the information to those who don't.

[Ferrets are Cool]

10. What many fail to realize is that

the repugs who passed this piece of shit will still find a way to blame the democrats. And their base is too farking stupid to NOT believe it.

[a kennedy]

14. I know...DEMS just dont know how to set the narrative.

[n2doc]

16. Dems don't get heard in Rural Georgia

Because the only radio is RW Hate Radio, or sports, or preachers, or C and W music. I've driven through there many times and the only 'news' you get has RW talk shows running constantly.
And of course anyone watching TV likely has Fox on. With rare exceptions, of course. And even the other MSM stations don't talk about how bad the new tax scam is.

[Ferrets are Cool]

53. I live in Mobile AL. I live your pain. nm

[Cosmocat]

49. As an example - EVERY conservative in the country believes the 2008 crash was caused by ...

Fannie and Freddie ...

Not because people wildly over bought houses, overleveraged to buy second, third homes, got into all the "products" that the lending community pushed like variable rates, were allowed to let people over extend themselves ... Not the big banks packaging all of these upside down properties into toxic packages and purchasing insurance to cover the loses ...

Nah, none of that.

To these imbeciles loans to people to buy $95,000 starter homes crashed the entire economy because ... Rush, et all told them.

[residentcynic]

89. And they've never heard of

Credit Default Swaps and Collateralized Debt Obligations. They have no clue what AIG did or how the WS banks gambled. The explanation they've been fed is that Jimmy Carter encouraged banks to loan to blacks and that's what began the whole problem.

[Blue_true]

65. Yes. That banker seems to have his head up his butt.

He will likely believe anything Fox News, Trump, Lying Ryan, Mitch The Turtle and the Georgia GOP tell him.

[hatrack]

13. Oops!

Guess he didn't get a chance to read the bill either.

Of course, neither did any of the House or Senate Democrats, so that's kind of fitting.

[watoos]

19. Ahem, you forgot to mention

that Republicans didn't read the bill either, since they certainly didn't write it, they just voted for it.

[handmade34]

20. they trusted

their leaders (big mistake)... the info coming from Republicans to constituents (e. g. Susan Collins) is not an untruth but very misleading and not telling the entire resulting effects of a bad bill...

I am disgusted and saddened by all that is happening

[wishstar]

21. Many won't realize until tax time in 2019, after 2018 elections

Friend of mine who itemizes (due to mortgage interest, medical costs, state taxes and prop taxes etc) and has difficulty making ends meet just finalized a home equity loan and line of credit that will no longer benefit her tax-wise and unfortunately having that line of credit available has encouraged her to impulsively spend more freely than she had been doing using credit cards. The banks/credit unions often charge fees or require costly appraisals for these home equity loans too.

My understanding is that home equity loan interest will only be deductible if the loan is for home improvements on primary residence.

[Ilsa]

22. I wonder when they'll realize that their good buddy gopers shoved

the tax bill through this fast up their asses so that they wouldn't be able to argue against it.

[kairos12]

24. Obama will get the blame.

[Hoyt]

28. Now that's a non-debatable fact.

[uponit7771]

60. +1

[DDySiegs]

33. Nothing So Delicious!

Nothing so delicious as watching IGNORANCE hoist on its own petard!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

35. How is anyone in that business unaware of those changes in the tax law?

This guy's stupidity is overwhelming.

[Mr. Ected]

37. I would surmise that Rush hasn't elaborated on this particular point

And FOX News probably buried the lede as well.

Remember, these folks only get their news from "credible, non-fake" sources.

[Cosmocat]

50. THIS

they only know what is in their safe, hate-filled bubble ...

[lark]

36. I think most of us would be more or less ok if the shitty tax bill were the end of it, but it's not.

The true end game for these thieving cons is to take all our money from Social Security & Medicare, gut Medicaid so it doesn't cover nursing home care and has hard caps so they don't have to pay for major illnesses and injuries. Then they will end mandatory education and public education, gut health care to the bone, end child labor laws and only the rich can vote. Oh yeah, abortion and birth control will also be outlawed. This is the true end game these oligarchs want, destruction of our way of life so they have all the power and money and we have no option but to be their virtual slaves.

[elleng]

39. 'Conversing with the Board' indeed,

as their liability could be significant for mis-informing clients who rely on their bad advice.

[not fooled]

55. Oooooooohhhh

but that's where getting rid of regulations comes in. No watchdog on the bankers = lie, cheat, and steal from their clients with impunity.

[Honeycombe8]

46. I had not heard that, either. Only about the limit on the property tax deduction. nt

[Blue_true]

66. I thought that it was $10,000 limit for everything.

Property Tax, State Income Tax, Home Mortage Interest, Local Tax if any. $10,000 limit for the total of the group.

Some states work state taxes differently than others, some do a percentage of federal while others do percentage against income. I don't know whether Georgia taxes income, I live in Florida. Some people will be ok with the $10,000 max if they don't earn much income, have a modest home, no local taxes and state income tax of 8% or less on income. Most two income families will probably get hurt.

[Honeycombe8]

69. I just checked. You are correctomundo.

But actually, we never have been able to claim both sales (local) taxes AND property taxes. It is currently one or the other, take your pick.

So a $10k limit still lets most working class and middle class claim their property tax (or sales tax) deduction and state income tax, IF they don't live in a high tax state.

I wonder if this phases out to not being able to deduct it at all?

[OnyxSharpie]

73. Eh?

It’s sales tax or state/local income tax. Property tax is in addition to either of those.

[Honeycombe8]

75. Oh, pardon me. I just moved...

so not used to the state income tax thing. Yes, that's what it is, per that form (and per Turbotax, which is an AWESOME service).

[PatrickforO]

47. This makes me feel good.

I think a lot of right wingers like this banker simply vote R because they always have done. To them, as to many Americans, if we simply keep our fingers crossed, we can 'trust' that the US Congress and Executive Branch will do stuff that is beneficial.

We've always known what the GOP REALLY stands for, but now the reality of this shit law will help many, many other voters realize this, too. If we actually have elections in 2018, the GOP is gonna get pasted.

[Achilleaze]

48. No fun to get suckered by republican Comrade Casio*

As many millions of decent people can attest.

* aka republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief

[Motley13]

52. we are trickled down on

[Yavin4]

54. This is what happens when they get information outside of Fox News. n/t

[Bleacher Creature]

56. Uh oh, it looks like it's time to start demonizing black athletes and women seeking abortions again.

And maybe add in some scare tactics about the LGBTQ community just in case period aren't 100% distracted!

[mdbl]

58. I live in GA and work with the same idiots who voted for Trump and the GOP

because Mush Limpballs and Fux and friends told them to. They have no brains of their own.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

61. Tell everyone so that the bad news rushes down in a torrent in time for 2018 elections.

Get the CON artists out.

[ecstatic]

67. I know right? A guilty pleasure lately is

reading all the regret tweets on Twitter. So many selfish *ucks voted for him, thinking they'd get their taxes cut, etc., only to find that they're actually worse off now. And on top of that, there's still no wall. And there's still diversity and, yes, immigrants. Karma's a bitch.

[still_one]

70. A lot of middle class folks who itemize deductions may be in for an unpleasant surprise when 2018

taxes roll around and they find out that personal exemptions have been eliminated, limits on deductions for state income tax + property tax, and interest on home equity loans have been eliminated.

Going to also be interesting if this will have an effect on charitable contributions

[DeminPennswoods]

78. I think losing the personal exemption will be the thing people

notice most. It's around 4k/person and directly lowers taxable income. For a single filer, doubling the standard deduction means an extra 6k, so single filers are only getting a 2k reduction in their taxable income. If you have a multi-person household or can claim an extra exemption (age, blindness, etc), you could end up having more taxable income than now.

[still_one]

81. Exactly, it is above the line. The other problem is that these supposed tax cuts expire in 8 years

and in that time when the deficit has ballooned out of control, and many of the republicans in congress who created this will be out of office at that time, fingers will start pointing who to blame for the deficit and what social programs to cut

[democratisphere]

76. All of these screw jobs need to be talked-up in 2018 so that every man, woman and child

knows we are providing and supporting welfare for the wealthiest people and corporations in America. There is NO TAX CUT for the masses, but actually a net tax increase for many or most.

[get the red out]

79. GOPers should read legislation

that will have an impact on their business rather than just listen to Fox News. This is just lazy!

[dembotoz]

86. i was at a business networking function where a cpa gave a presentation with the truth per tax bill

mostly small business owners
mostly gop

they were shocked....
like finding out youre adopted shocked

one attorney in particular was just dumbstruck.
wish i had my camera

[7962]

88. And thats deduction that helps middle class homeowners.

I doubt high income families use HELOCs very much