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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCapital Punishment Deserves a Quick Death
By THE EDITORIAL BOARDDEC. 31, 2017
<snip>.
Inside the death chamber that morning, prison officials spent more than an hour searching Mr. Campbells arms and legs for a vein into which they could inject the lethal drug cocktail. They comforted him as they prepared to kill him, providing the 69-year-old with a wedge pillow to help with breathing problems related to his years of heavy smoking.
After about 80 minutes, they gave up and returned Mr. Campbell to his cell, where he sits awaiting his next date with death, now set for June 5, 2019.
<snip>
The number should be zero. As the nation enters 2018, the Supreme Court is considering whether to hear at least one case asking it to strike down the death penalty, once and for all, for violating the Eighth Amendments ban on cruel and unusual punishments.
<snip>
It would be tempting to conclude from this litany, which is drawn from an annual report by the Death Penalty Information Center, that capital punishment is being reserved for the most horrific crimes committed by the most incorrigible offenders. But it would be wrong.
The death penalty is not and has never been about the severity of any given crime. Mental illness, intellectual disability, brain damage, childhood abuse or neglect, abysmal lawyers, minimal judicial review, a white victim these factors are far more closely associated with who ends up getting executed. Of the 23 people put to death in 2017, all but three had at least one of these factors, according to the report. Eight were younger than 21 at the time of their crime.
More troubling still are the wrongful convictions. In 2017, four more people who had been sentenced to death were exonerated, for a total of 160 since 1973 a time during which 1,465 people were executed. In many of the exonerations, prosecutors won convictions and sentences despite questionable or nonexistent evidence, pervasive misconduct or a pattern of racial bias. A 2014 study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences extrapolated from known cases of wrongful convictions to estimate that at least 4 percent of all death-row inmates are wrongfully convicted. Against this backdrop, it would take an enormous leap of faith to believe that no innocent person has ever been executed.
<snip>
Leaving it up to individual states is not the solution. Its true that 19 states and the District of Columbia have already banned capital punishment, four have suspended it and eight others havent executed anyone in more than a decade. Some particularly awful state policies have also been eliminated in the past couple of years, like a Florida law that permitted non-unanimous juries to impose death sentences, and an Alabama rule empowering judges to override a jurys vote for life, even a unanimous one, and impose death.
And yet at the same time, states have passed laws intended to speed up the capital appeals process, despite the growing evidence of legal errors and prosecutorial misconduct that can be hidden for years or longer. Other states have gone to great lengths to hide their lethal-injection protocols from public scrutiny, even as executions with untested drugs have gone awry and pharmaceutical companies have objected to the use of their products to kill people.
<snip>
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/31/opinion/capital-punishment-death-penalty.html
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)marble falls
(57,077 posts)of capital punishment.
Would innocence projects take on a life wrongly sentenced life term as they would a capital sentence?
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)I am intrigued and humbly willing to evolve when it comes to my views on this issue, so I gotta ask you what's your rationale. Not debating you- just reading and learning.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)redeem themselves. And judges are better determiners of sentences than so-called law and order politicians. And I have concerns that innocent prisoners wrongly sentenced to life without parole do not generate the interest in righting their wrongs that an innocent facing death would. I also know of prosecutors who push for life sentences for innocent prisoners who do not want to face death.
I have a problem with all the cases that plead out as opposed to going to trial.
Calculating
(2,955 posts)Child rapists and the like.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)treating them all as the same is not justice. And it should be called "the justice system" out of more than irony.
demosincebirth
(12,536 posts)lastlib
(23,213 posts)The state should not have the power to take life.
This is where it begins and ends for me.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)and you need to be put to sleep.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)1. its based on emotion.
2. creates a system where the death penalty is unequally imposed.
3. the death penalty has no place at any rate for crime where no death results from the crime.
Justice is not only blind it is to be dispassionate. Crime is not dealt with in the justice system to create justice for the "victims", it is to confirm certain values we hold as a society are valid and stand up the deprivations of crime. If life is sanctified as a value in our society than all life is sacred. That is why we don't don't allow the parents of raped children (for example) to participate in the machine of justice. They don't prosecute, judge, jury or punish. They only contribute evidence and testimony.
Waving photos of victims is an appeal to emotion not an argument for justice. At any rate, death penalty or not, there is absolutely no justice for any victim of any crime in the justice system. There is only justice for the accused and society.
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)Still, child abusers need to be put down like rabid dogs. Why keep them alive? I know I am wrong but I can't feel any other way about them.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)capital crimes to me is argument enough. Here in Texas we put a father to death for burning his three children to death solely on discredited "fire science".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham
And this happened after I moved from Illinois where the Governor suspended all executions in his state after 16 men were released from death row and set free in one year.
Every time I think I finally see an individual I start to think would be a poster child for the death penalty it brings it home to me: there is no way to equally and justifiably apply the death penalty simply because I discriminated one person to be killed, and coupled with the many people released from the death house not because the system has a mechanism to correct wrongly sentenced prisoners, but because someone outside the system usually pro bono has moved mountains to expose the prisoner's innocence.
If we hold life sacred it has to be very hard indeed to support the death penalty.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)...the death penalty is just sweeping another problem under the rug.
Why did the person commit the crime? Was it the environment? Was it mental illness? Value system? A combination of things? etc. All of this needs to be studied and understood, and where possible, effect changes to stop it in the future. Better to prevent a crime rather than punish after it happens.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)confuse a jury a prosecutor is trying to shepherd from a to b. They hate c thru z,
Iggo
(47,549 posts)Then who do you "put to sleep"?
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)Go back to Saudi Arabia. They'll love you there.
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)Anyone who abuses/rapes a child deserves whatever comes to him/her, including the death penalty if available.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)and then pretty much all the rapists (of anyone) will kill their victims. Think about that. Why would they leave a victim alive to report the crime, identify them, and testify against them, if they'll be executed either way if they're caught and convicted?
They may deserve to die for abusing/raping a child, but to actually make that the law is just fucking stupid.
Iggo
(47,549 posts)I just want to hear one of these DP advocates say it out loud: "It's worth killing innocent people as long as we get to kill guilty people."
Mariana
(14,854 posts)but I strongly suspect that the more heinous the crime, the more likely it is that someone will be falsely convicted. The worst crimes put a tremendous amount of political and social pressure on everyone involved in the process - the police, the prosecutors, the defense attorney, and even the jurors.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)with as one can get. All sorts of studies have shown that capital punishment is no sort of deterrent to crime and that in fact there are indications that murder rates fall when capital punishment has been ended.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)until I read stories like the one this week where the two women and their young children had their throats slashed while tied to chairs. Then I question my belief.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)I am making an example of how unequally applied the death penalty really is. And we do need these extreme cases to confirm how set our values are. There are four dead in that horrible event, but adding two more will not bring back the dead or give them any measure of justice - there is no justice for the dead. And adding two more corpses to the pile only adds to the death count.
Ms. Toad
(34,062 posts)the defendant would be jailed for life. If it took place in an urban area, the penalty might be death. https://www.aclu.org/other/scattered-justice-geographic-disparities-death-penalty
Even if you beleive the death penalty is appropriate, and even if you can come to grips with the reality that we have (and will continue) to execute innocent men and women, should the penalty be imposed based on where the victim lives (or the race of the victim, or other characteristics that suggests some victims have more value)?
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)want for "deadly justice". If it were my family, I don't think I could be a reasonable person though.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Some crimes and criminals are too horrific.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Orrex
(63,203 posts)We can envision a time, for instance, when a majority might have ruled that a black man should be executed for marrying a white woman. Sure, such "crimes" are absurd to a modern eye, but how will our current assessment of "too horrific" be judged a century from now?
And who gets to decide what qualifies as "too horrific?" Congress? The SCOTUS? Individual states, counties or cities?
Support of capital punishment is simply not consistent with Progressive thinking.
jmowreader
(50,553 posts)The biggest question: Did anyone who is still alive see the defendant kill the victim? We can go into a lot of other questions...was the killing in self-defense? Was it a crime of passion? How many people did he kill? Did he kill for racial reasons?
Given all that, if there isn't a witness to the actual murder, no death sentence. And none of this "them two boys pulled up in a green convertible and went into the Sac-o-Suds so I went to cook my breakfast...twenty minutes later when I came outside to eat my grits two boys went a'roarin' off in a green convertible and Jimmy Willis was dead, so obviously it musta been them two boys what done it." No sir. If you don't see Bill and Stan shoot the clerk, you can't hang Bill and Stan for shooting the clerk.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)1. Few case have that level of witnesses, if they did it might be argued that fewer cases would ever get to trial.
2. There are just too many examples of witnesses being disbelieved because of bigotry, familial or friendly relationships to the accused, the natural disinclination of juries to take anyone's word over police testimony.
3. Mishandled, lost or purposely misinterpreted evidence - and here in Texas there has been big scandals of the CSI labs in Denton and Harris counties throwing literally hundreds of cases into confusion.
https://www.forensicmag.com/news/2014/06/houston-crime-lab-tech-admitted-bad-lab-procedures
https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2011/september/bad-blood-at-the-dallas-county-crime-lab/
4. Over charging defendants or asking for the death penalty to compel defendants to plea to crimes they didn't do. Maybe Prosecutors shouldn't be an elected office or a springboard to other elected offices.
jmowreader
(50,553 posts)I don't think District Attorneys, sheriffs or judges should be elected officials. There's far too much temptation to overcharge just to make your reelection bid look good.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)better wages and more resources. Lets face it, like Lenny Bruce one said, "You get all the justice you can afford," which is just one more way that the death penalty is unfairly applied.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Especially in science.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,845 posts)I have to ask: how is it that almost every other country on this planet does without the death penalty?
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)marble falls
(57,077 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,845 posts)Makes you think that the underlying notion that the death penalty keeps people from committing capital crimes might possibly be wrong.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,845 posts)that don't have a death penalty is many times more than it is here!
A touch of sarcasm there.
In any case, I seriously doubt that anyone contemplating murder thinks about the possibility of the death penalty before doing the deed. After, maybe. Not before.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)In those countries without capital punishment, just think of all the murders that must be happening without anyone realizing it!
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,845 posts)Oh, my.
EX500rider
(10,839 posts)....and 103 countries have abolished it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Truly, neither Vonnegut, nor Swift, nor Heller could do better than this in the category of governmental insanity.
thbobby
(1,474 posts)Many may deserve to die. But I do not have the wisdom nor the right to make that decision.
I do not believe capital punishment deters crime. With appeals process, executions rarely happen within 10 years of crime.
A monster needs to be removed from society for their lifetime. A life sentence that is a life sentence accomplishes that. With the advances being made in brain imagery and function, perhaps a monster can be cathartic to our understanding of deviance. Killing them is more revenge than justice.
There is a quote, I believe from old Sci-Fi story: "A society can be judged by how it treats its prisoners.".
If I was convinced that capital punishment would deter a hideous monster from their crimes, I would feel differently. But it does not.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)clear and personal position.
thbobby
(1,474 posts)Thank you for your comment. Do you remember which novel it comes from?
marble falls
(57,077 posts)prolific so its very hard to find any specific mention of it.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)In all that time, I have never once heard an argument in favor of it that didn't, at its core, boil down to pure bloodthirsty vengeance.
It's often couched in high-minded platitudes about "closure for the victims" and "keeping society safe," but these are dubious at best and, again, amount to vengeance.
Other than vengeance, capital punishment serves no end that isn't better served by lifelong incarceration.
Support of capital punishment is inconsistent with a Progressive philosophy.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)marble falls
(57,077 posts)for someone they did not know, against someone they did not know, on the basis of incomplete and imperfect information someone else they did not know has meted out according to their own agendas.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)How non-violent criminals are dealt with needs to be completely reassessed as well.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)This past year a girl was killed on her 10th birthday ~
Her mother had found men on the Internet who came and had sex with the girl;
then a couple of them killed the girl,
dismembered her in the bathtub,
and set her on fire.
Two men and the mother will each be tried for her murder this year.
New Mexico girl was raped and strangled on 10th birthday, had STD when she died
Warning: This story contains graphic and disturbing content, and may not be suitable for all readers.
http://wgntv.com/2017/01/12/autopsy-new-mexico-girl-was-raped-and-strangled-on-10th-birthday-had-std-when-she-died/
marble falls
(57,077 posts)unequally applied. Justice is supposed to be blind to who commits the crime and who the crime is committed upon. We prosecute crime in the name of society not in the name of individuals.When we tailor the punishment specifically to a personality the punishment is by nature unequally applied. Murder is murder. Murdering a child is as bad as murdering an adult.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)I just can't be an anti-DP cheerleader.
marble falls
(57,077 posts)Demsrule86
(68,550 posts)There is a famous author...Ann Perry who was involved in killing her best friend's Mom...both went to prison they were teens...and were released after some number of years. You have to decide...retribution or rehabilitation...in certain circumstances rehabilitation is possible. If that is not possible than a life sentence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Perry
marble falls
(57,077 posts)is critical.