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L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
Thu Jan 4, 2018, 11:06 PM Jan 2018

THREAD: Today's NYT revelations aid Mueller's obstruction investigation.



2/ The article indicates that at Trump’s orders, White House Counsel Don McGahn tried to convince Sessions not to recuse himself. This is very unusual. Lawyers recuse themselves when there is a conflict of interest or an appearance that they couldn’t be fair.

3/ Why did Trump care so much about whether Sessions recused himself? According to the article, Trump said that he wanted Sessions to “safeguard” him, as he believed other Attorney Generals had done.

4/ This is really important because Mueller is investigating whether Trump obstructed justice by firing Comey with “corrupt” intent. In other words, by acting with the intent to unlawfully impede the investigation.

5/ To prove someone’s intent, prosecutors often ask jurors to make inferences from what the person said or did because we don’t have a magical telescope that can look inside their brain.

6/ Trump’s statements about Sessions’ recusal can raise an inference that Trump wanted Sessions to impede or stop the Russia investigation. Mueller could argue that this suggests that Trump had the same intent when he fired Comey.

7/ None of Trump’s conversations with McGahn are privileged, and I expect Mueller asked him tough questions about why he followed Trump’s order. Even if Trump could argue that he didn’t understand recusal, McGahn certainly did and knew that Trump’s request was unethical.

8/ McGahn’s actions are in stark contrast with another White House lawyer, Uttam Dhillon, who withheld information from Trump about whether he could fire Comey in an attempt to prevent him from doing so. As the article notes, that is highly unusual.

9/ It is unethical for a lawyer not to counsel a client regarding his legal options or to mislead a client about his options. Dhillon’s decision to do so in this instance suggests he was deeply concerned about Trump’s desire to fire Comey.

10/ Dhillon could testify about his concern, and more importantly, about the facts that prompted his concern. The article doesn’t fully discuss what Dhillon saw and heard, but Mueller could ask him. Dhillon’s testimony could be very important.

11/ It’s worth noting that if Dhillon thought Trump was obstructing justice, the proper course for him to take would have been to inform Trump that firing Comey could be a crime.

12/ Today’s article also notes that the first sentence of the original letter firing Comey, which Trump asked Stephen Miller to write, mentioned Trump’s claim that the Russia investigation was “fabricated and politically motivated.”

13/ That also suggests that the Russia investigation was Trump’s motivation for the firing, which he famously admitted to Lester Holt in an interview after initially claiming otherwise.

14/ The Times article also notes that after Comey’s firing, a Sessions aide looked for dirt on Comey, which the Justice Department now denies. That is interesting because it could show Sessions’ involvement in an attempt to discredit a witness against Trump.

15/ That would be highly improper, given that Sessions is the head of the agency conducting the investigation and recused himself from the investigation.

16/ Overall, the main conclusion to draw from this article is that the Trump’s statements to McGahn strengthen the obstruction case against Trump, and Dhillon could be an important witness for Mueller.

/end

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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THREAD: Today's NYT revelations aid Mueller's obstruction investigation. (Original Post) L. Coyote Jan 2018 OP
Excellent! triron Jan 2018 #1
Trumps lawyer has a duty to report obstruction to Congress! L. Coyote Jan 2018 #4
Is it considered unethical for a lawyer to lie to his client? Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #28
Shouldve seen Jason miller on cnn, corkscrewing himself into the ground, along with jack kingston Gabi Hayes Jan 2018 #9
Chris Cuomo DESTROYS Trump Lackey Jason Miller L. Coyote Jan 2018 #13
Mueller's Investigation reveals details of how Trump had WH counsel lobby Sessions not to recuse; L. Coyote Jan 2018 #2
Are Trump's lawyers guilty of obstruction if they lobbied Sessions not to recuse? Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #29
Possibly. There will be a whole slew of obstruction indictments. L. Coyote Jan 2018 #34
What about the ethics of lying to a client? Can they lose their license to practice law? nt Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #35
kick for visibility triron Jan 2018 #3
This is the stuff that is actually damaging to the Fuhrer NewsCenter28 Jan 2018 #5
And some Republican agree: Ex-DoD Sec shreds GOP lawmakers - Complicit in Trumps obstruction L. Coyote Jan 2018 #8
Why theyre going after the DOJ files: Gabi Hayes Jan 2018 #15
Can you say more about this Gaby? What is the strategy? nt Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #31
Waitll you see this..... Gabi Hayes Jan 2018 #37
Got it thanks... Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #38
Members of Congress are also guilty of obstruction. They all seem so comfortable breaking the law. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #30
Watergate prosecutor Jill Wine Banks: "I know I can" make an obstruction case against Trump. L. Coyote Jan 2018 #6
Indeed! Quite significant that former watergate prosecutor says this. triron Jan 2018 #7
This makes Nixon look like a saint. nt Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #32
Thanks! Katy Tur is covering this right now on the Eleventh Hour bettyellen Jan 2018 #10
The big news of the day. Obstruction is now a slam dunk. How many obstruction charges is the new ??? L. Coyote Jan 2018 #11
My guess almost. Almost a slam dunk. triron Jan 2018 #12
Quick! Someone find an extra large fork! ProudLib72 Jan 2018 #14
Rachel has that covered! L. Coyote Jan 2018 #17
Trump faces new questions on potential obstruction of justice L. Coyote Jan 2018 #16
And on and on and on. triron Jan 2018 #18
Trump Ordered WH Lawyer To Stop Sessions From Recusing L. Coyote Jan 2018 #19
Reince Priebus' contemporary notes another tool for Mueller L. Coyote Jan 2018 #20
"Sessions will be indicted by Mueller & he knows it." L. Coyote Jan 2018 #21
Sessions is almost as evil as Trump. triron Jan 2018 #26
People who knew better were so nonchalant about breaking the law. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #33
This news pushed aside another big story: NYT bombshell Papadopoulos report L. Coyote Jan 2018 #22
VIDEO -- Comey Claims Confirmed By Priebus Notes: NYT Rachel Maddow L. Coyote Jan 2018 #23
VIDEO -- Trump Expected Protection From Jeff Sessions In Russia Probe The 11th Hour L. Coyote Jan 2018 #24
VIDEO -- Bharara: 'Absolutely evidence' to begin obstruction of justice case L. Coyote Jan 2018 #25
I am rarely speechless, but while reading this article, I had no words. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #27
Proving obstruction of justice will not be hard Gothmog Jan 2018 #36
Trump Move to Stop Sessions Recusal 'Screams of Guilt' - Other Officials Intervened Too. L. Coyote Jan 2018 #39
Republicans Are Freaking Out Because Mueller Is Getting Close To Trump On Obstruction Of Justice. L. Coyote Jan 2018 #40
Maddow VIDEO: GOP Attempting to Undermine #TrumpRussia? L. Coyote Jan 2018 #41
NYT Opinion: Did Trump Obstruct Justice? YES L. Coyote Jan 2018 #42
VIDEO: Trump Expected Protection From Sessions In Russia Probe L. Coyote Jan 2018 #43

Irish_Dem

(46,426 posts)
28. Is it considered unethical for a lawyer to lie to his client?
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:08 PM
Jan 2018

Even if it is to protect the client from doing something stupid?

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
9. Shouldve seen Jason miller on cnn, corkscrewing himself into the ground, along with jack kingston
Thu Jan 4, 2018, 11:53 PM
Jan 2018

That was funny, especially the sane people on the panel responding

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
34. Possibly. There will be a whole slew of obstruction indictments.
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:18 PM
Jan 2018

And multiple counts in some of them.

NewsCenter28

(1,835 posts)
5. This is the stuff that is actually damaging to the Fuhrer
Thu Jan 4, 2018, 11:45 PM
Jan 2018

Let's talk more about this and LESS about Bannon's feud with Trump, OK media?

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
15. Why theyre going after the DOJ files:
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:24 AM
Jan 2018

Gearing up to use the Oliver North get out of jail free defense for any and all brought to trial, after their congressional testimony is aired/leaked

All they need is another crooked three judge appellate panel like the one ON has

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
37. Waitll you see this.....
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 08:11 PM
Jan 2018
https://crooksandliars.com/2017/07/congressional-investigations-and-special

Never saw this. it’s been discussed elsewhere

Jordan, Nunes etal want public testimony to make for appeal basis: any body who talks to congress

Will be very difficult to nail, especially in the appeal process. Initial conviction will be irrelevant

All depends on the politics of the appeals court

In norths case, two pugs, one dem

Irish_Dem

(46,426 posts)
30. Members of Congress are also guilty of obstruction. They all seem so comfortable breaking the law.
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:11 PM
Jan 2018

Makes you wonder what goes on behind the scenes.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
11. The big news of the day. Obstruction is now a slam dunk. How many obstruction charges is the new ???
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 12:13 AM
Jan 2018

And how many Trump team members will be indicted for obstruction in addition to Trump?




triron

(21,984 posts)
18. And on and on and on.
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:30 AM
Jan 2018

Last edited Fri Jan 5, 2018, 02:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Sounds like a line from a song. Oh well I was watching a dumb movie: Freaky Friday

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
19. Trump Ordered WH Lawyer To Stop Sessions From Recusing
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:35 AM
Jan 2018


Jan 4, 2018
A New York Times story reports Trump told the White House’s top lawyer to stop Jeff Sessions from recusing himself in the Russia investigation.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
20. Reince Priebus' contemporary notes another tool for Mueller
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:53 AM
Jan 2018






The Rachel Maddow Show 1/4/18
Priebus notes confirming Comey another tool for Robert Mueller
Chuck Rosenberg, former U.S. attorney, talks with Rachel Maddow about how former Trump chief-of-staff Reince Priebus's notes corroborating James Comey's notes about meetings with Donald Trump might be used in a court case. Duration: 5:31

Irish_Dem

(46,426 posts)
33. People who knew better were so nonchalant about breaking the law.
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:17 PM
Jan 2018

Corruption and crime are second nature to some politicians.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
25. VIDEO -- Bharara: 'Absolutely evidence' to begin obstruction of justice case
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 12:27 PM
Jan 2018


Jun 11, 2017
Former New York U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara sits down with George Stephanopoulos for his first television interview since being fired by President Trump.


Irish_Dem

(46,426 posts)
27. I am rarely speechless, but while reading this article, I had no words.
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:07 PM
Jan 2018

My jaw dropped, which is becoming permanent I think as long as Trumpwad is in office.

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