Now that Sessions' recusal is back in the news it should be noted that Al Franken exposed...

[brush]

Sessions' perjury about not meeting with Russians when in fact, he did on multiple occasions.

Former Senator Franken's grilling of Sessions in televised hearings is the reason he had to recuse himself from the Russian investigation and why he is not able to fire Mueller and end the investigation into trump's debacle of an administration.

It should be remembered that the investigation continues while the person most responsible for that, Al Franken, has been forced out by, IMO, lesser Democrats.

[riverwalker]

1. Exactly

[SharonAnn]

24. That why his loss is so painful. He really focused on the underlying issues and brought them out.

[exboyfil]

2. If Franken has not been embittered by the experience

He could be a useful hammer at this point going full throated criticism of Trump unfettered by the norms of his prior office (not like Trump ever cared).

He could just wait for the moment that Trump references the accusations:

I am willing to go before a Congressional committee to testify about the accusations including having the women called to also testify under oath, are you man enough to do that as well?

[Hortensis]

17. Of course he'll continue. He's not just a public figure,

he entered politics for the same reason so many Democrats do -- he believes in government, of, by and for the people. He just needs to take some time offwhile his public image rebuilds a bit.

Itm, maybe he can donate the use of his secret investigatory army some here are apparently imagining. The one that seemingly allowed only him to be aware of and "expose" Session's perjury.

[brush]

23. Secret, investigative army? Are you serious? He asked the right questions. Sessions lied. Franken...

proved he lied.

Voila!

Perjury.

No secret army.

Sessions had to recuse himself.

The investigation continues because Sessions can't fire Mueller.

What's your point?

[Hortensis]

33. That was a joke. He was the one who asked the questions

and statements in front of the cameras that were decided upon by the Democratic committee he was part of.

I was trying to "expose" some of the silliness in the OP myself.

[brush]

36. He did expose Sessions' perjury did he not?

[Hortensis]

44. No. He was one of 9 (NINE) Democratic senators

working together on the Judiciary Committee. And that committee worked very closely with those of our senate leadership not on it.

You know, admiring one senator because his was the face most often in front of a camera, making him more recognizable, is a piss-poor reason for adulation. But really contemptible are those who are just using Senator Franken as an excuse to trash dozens of his colleagues.

The OP was probably one of the sincere ones when expressing the opinion that he was greater than "lesser Democrats," but based on what? I'm still waiting for someone holding this opinion to give any indication that he or she knows anything of substance about even one of the 40 or more senators who publicly indicated they felt Franken needed to resign.

Those included Senator Sanders, btw, formerly imagined as battling his righteous way through a wilderness of corrupt Democrats, until Franken became their new symbol of all that's wrong with Democrats.

[brush]

48. Do you really think it's adulation? How about extreme disappointment at other Dems not backing him..

through the investigation he asked for?

If it was Gillibrand being thrown under the bus in a similar situation I'd be just as upset.

[Hortensis]

56. It goes way beyond disappointment, and ignorance is no

excuse for calling for the ruin of anyone's career, much less dozens of them. Pot and kettle, only far worse.

Some called for primarying dozens of Democratic senators they knew nothing about while ignoring 51 Republican senators who gutted the ACA and lined up to feed at a trough that put us all over a trillion dollars in debt to them and other Kochsters.

We're calling this twisted, destructive behavior "disappointment," are we?

[brush]

59. God! Dems backing other Dems. Not rocket science.

[Progressive dog]

57. Franken was not thrown under a bus

and just as Franken asked some questions of Sessions, as part of the Democrats getting a special prosecutor appointed; Gillibrand took the point for the over 30 Democratic Senators that asked Franken to resign.

[brush]

60. Dems backing other Dems. Who'd thought that was such a hard concept to understand.

[Progressive dog]

62. Democrats don't take a mindless oath

to support other Democrats no matter what.

[lark]

80. Sorry, that is totally wrong.

Gillibrand saw an opportunity to get rid of a potent rival and jumped on it. She didn't ask for hearings to determine the truth, she didn't listen to the myriad people that were there and cleared him of the charges, they all said Tweeden was lying. She is a total backstabber with no loyalty to anyone, not even her mentors the Clintons. She took the money, got the job, then backstabbed them, again for her own personal glory.

Franken was the one who pushed Sessions on this, not the others, him! He was definitely in the lead, none of the other Dems stepped up the way he did and we have lost an amazing advocate due to lies and political expediency.

[Progressive dog]

84. Franken is supposed to be on the same side as Gillibrand

It takes a vivid imagination to put them against each other as rivals.
Thirty one Senators from the Democratic caucus sided with Gillibrand, Only Manchin called for Franken to stay. If this was a referendum on whether Franken was a leader, he lost.

[RVN VET71]

63. 2 points, if I may -- and a little bit of idle speculation about the Franken affair

1. Al Franken deserves respect for his successful effort to raise the issue of Sessions possible perjury and stay on point about it.
2. Al Franken requested an ethics investigation into what I think were mostly politically motivated (and well timed) "accusations" of sexual impropriety which, looked at all in all, amount to little or nothing. 3 of his accusers remain anonymous and, therefore, of doubtful veracity. 2 of his accusers are suspicious on the surface: the first engaged in actual hands-on grab-ass with a performer on stage, the second says Franken was goosing her while she smiled pleasantly for her photographer-husband. But Franken was denied the ethics investigation for reasons that remain very unclear. His "colleagues", led by Senator Gillibrand, just piled on, insisting that he resign for what was, at best, a minor infraction and, at worse, lies.

Idle speculation: Kirsten Gillibrand was known as a conservative Democrat when she took Hillary Clinton's Senate seat in 2010. She took stands against immigrants and for gun rights, among other things. She has now been touted as a potential 2020 candidate for the Democratic Presidential nomination. I think she'll stay a Democrat as long as that possibility remains, but if Warren or some other Dem surges in the polls and with the Party brass, I would not be surprised if Gillibrand -- having led the charge against Al Franken -- will jump to the GOP and try to secure their nomination.

I do not like Gillibrand, but she is a very savvy campaigner. If she were to run as a Republican -- and against Elizabeth Warren, yet!-- it would be a campaign for the ages.

[karynnj]

53. Oddly, the Sessions comment was NOT a direct answer to the question Franken asked

The question was about others - not Sessions. Sessions responded by denying actions by himself. There was a WRITTEN question by Leahy that did ask him about his own actions -- that Sessions lied about as well.

Franken's questioning was good, but it was Sessions who shot himself in the foot. He could have answered the question as asked and it would been hard to know if he lied. However, even if Sessions would have finessed Franken's question well, he would STILL have had a problem. Leahy, a lawyer with years of practice questioning people, asked a direct question that Sessions HAD to lie about.

Another difference - one was on video the other a written response.

[questionseverything]

64. odd you mention leahy

I remember when sen whitehouse was new to the senate...I was watching c-span 3, a questioning of gonzoles about the firing of us attorneys

whitehouse came at gonzoles hard basically saying he had perjured himself to congress

when his time was up, leahy praised whitehouse for his actions but

at the next hearing when whitehouses turn came around his questions pertained to how many contacts there were between bush's wh and the justice dept....bad stuff but certainly not charging him with perjury ( that he had clearly committed)

I always wondered,what did they tell whitehouse so he would cool his jets?

gonzoles resigned but of course was never criminally charged

[Hortensis]

76. Leahy? Was he there? :) Good points.

Leahy's actually worthy of a little respect himself. He's been a bastion of progressive liberalism all the way from back when Jimmy Carter was president. I just checked and see that the Kochs' Americans for Prosperity now rates him 3%, instead of the 0% from Freedom Works and Club for Growth, and I do wonder what he did wrong to "earn" that 3%.

[pangaia]

72. "..secret investigatory army"

Oh, I like that little stick in the eye.

[enough]

3. Right. Just keeping a Democrat in the seat does not make up for this loss of one of our

strongest voices.

[yallerdawg]

4. Not to piss on the parade, but...

televised Congressional hearings are coordinated, scripted, timed TV events. Franken accepted and played a role. Any of the Democrats could have done it.

For my money, Kamala Harris got under Sessions' skin (and other R's) much more than Franken did!

I can see her picking up where Al Franken left off!

[brush]

5. Harris was good but because of, unfortunately, McConnell's sexism, wasn't allowed to continue.

Franken was and he exposed Sessions' perjury.

[yallerdawg]

28. Sessions is still US Attorney General and has not been charged with perjury, just faulty memory.

Kamala Harris is a former attorney, prosecutor and California AG.

Al Franken is a former writer and comedian on Saturday Night Live.

I know which one I'd prefer prosecuting the present executive branch if it comes to that!

[brush]

31. Who's talking about prosecuting the executive branch? Harris was good, McConnell blocked her from...

continuing because of his obvious sexism.

Franken did what he did.

Are you setting up some kind of contest as to who you want to prosecute?

Where did that come from?

It has nothing to do with the OP or what happened.

[yallerdawg]

39. Harris ran out of time - she irritated ALL the R's in a most wonderful way!

We ALL knew about Sessions not "remembering" bumping into Russians - it was reported in the papers first!

I am just asserting that Franken had an assigned role to play - and any Democrat on the committee can do that same job.

[brush]

42. Sessions dragging out his responses and McConnell's sexist blocking ran out...

Harris' time.

We saw that happened.

We also saw that Franken was able to continue because McConnell didn't try to block him — sexism.

It wasn't fair but that's what happened.

Franken did a good job and Sessions had to recuse himself.

[yallerdawg]

43. Okie-dokie.

Franken is more effective because he is a man.

Not the way I see it, but it sure seems to be a consistent theme.

[brush]

46. That's the way you read it? That's not at all what I said. I said it wasn't FAIR how Harris'...

Harris' time was depleted.

Nowhere did I say Franken was more effective because he was a man.

It was obvious that McConnell's sexism was vividly on display.

Get it straight.

[MrsMatt]

58. Al Franken graduated cum laude

with a BA in political science from Harvard.

He's hardly the lightweight you so blithely insinuate him to be.

[AllyCat]

55. And she was one calling for Frankens (political) head.

Maybe she wanted his job as top voice?

[Baitball Blogger]

6. History will show that Franken did more to unseat this president than the women who

demanded that the Senator step down.

Sorry, but that's the truth the way I see it.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

7. And Roger Stone was the one who wanted a Sessions whitewash of the Russia scandal.

Funny how Roger Stone had advance notice before the claims against Franken broke.

[LittleGirl]

16. +1 n/t

[CrispyQ]

8. Not all democrats are created equal.

We're in a fight for our country & dem leadership kicked one of our best bulldogs to the curb. But hey, when they go low we go high. Of course, now they have their boot on our neck.

[SCantiGOP]

9. Let's beat the dead horse some more

You do know he resigned several days ago? Maybe it's time to unite behind our Democratic candidates instead of having another glass of whine.

[brush]

10. He resigned 3 days ago. His contribution to the continuing investigation should be noted.

[SCantiGOP]

12. But that wasn't the intention of your original post

It was an opportunity to denigrate those you have deemed to be 'lesser Democrats."

[brush]

13. Re-read the post. Of course that was the intention. And how could one not mention Franken's...

Last edited Fri Jan 5, 2018, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

contribution without mentioning what happened to such an effective voice?

[mac56]

11. "Having another glass of whine."

Classy. Classy as hell.

[arithia]

14. ffs

Whatever you think of the legitimacy of the accusations against Franken, posts like this do nothing to actually help our country or the party. They don't. He seemed to realize that and stepped down, gracefully, so that the party could move past this obvious distraction and move on to something else more urgent, like the antics of the thin-skinned Orange who occupies the White House and spends his days rage-tweeting about the size of his dick.

It's a damn shame that every frakin day on DU I read a rant about how he got screwed. That horse is dead. Deceased. It is no more. It has ceased to be. It is an ex-horse. Beating it more wont bring it back to life. It wont bring healing or closure. It won't even help elect a democrat in his place. It will, however, further divide the party.

&t=218s

*goes back to lurking*

[brush]

15. Sessions' recusal is back in the news. Franken had a big hand in that. You don't have to read it.

[arithia]

19. And you don't have to post it, either

Your post wasn't just about pointing to Franken's contribution. It was also a whine about what "lesser dems" did to him, something that ignores the fact that even Franken seemed to understand that his scandal served as a distraction for the republicans to gnaw on instead of what is going on in the white house.

If you don't want people calling you on the whine, don't include it next time. It serves no purpose beyond raising ire at people who had every right to say "Hey Al, this looks really bad, regardless of the context or what actually happened." In the end, it DID look bad. It WOULD have served as an adequate distraction and quite frankly, the photos of him being "silly" and groping the air in front of a sleeping woman's breasts were juvenile and disgusting. That's the behavior of a teenager, not a grown ass man.

[brush]

20. Call me on the "whine" all you want. I'll post what I want to post.

[arithia]

22. go right ahead

But don't tell people what they should or shouldn't read either. If you want to have your right to an opinion, you should respect other peoples as well. Attacking "lesser" dems is needlessly divisive. Attacking other posters by saying "you don't need to read it" is equally needless.

Now, unless you want to discuss something more substantive, I'm done with this conversation.

[brush]

25. And don't try to tell me what to post.

[OnDoutside]

27. Thank you for posting this thread, brush.

[brush]

34. Thank you, OnDoutside.

[arithia]

35. Wow

I said "i'm sick of seeing this shit". That isn't telling you what to post. You got mad and tried to claim you were just trying to draw attention to Sessions and Franken's part in exposing him, but you weren't ****PER YOUR OWN OP*****. That dig at other Dems expanded the topic.

Me pointing out that if you don't want ppl calling that whining, then don't include it is a suggestion- not an attempt to tell you what to post. It's me saying "hey, that was needless and ugly", kinda like your repeated replies to me telling me what I should read and acting like I'm telling you what to do. I'm not.

You, however, are being pushy as hell and are clearly in want of a fight that I'm not interested in. Even after I said I'm done, you kept going. That says all it needs to, right there.

[brush]

38. The dig was at other Dems who threw Franken under the bus without a hearing. I stand by that.

[arithia]

45. why are you still talking AT me?

You aren't actually addressing my points so you are arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. I don't care whether or not you stand by it- it's still needlessly divisive. It's passive-aggressive shade throwing. You wanna stand by that, be my guest. It's just disappointing behavior that distracts from more important things, but go ahead- Be my guest.

[brush]

47. I thought you were done.

[arithia]

52. A funny thing happens when you reply to someone

The My Posts tab lights up in yellow, alerting them they have a reply! People then *gasp* click on that tab to see what it is. They might even reply! Cause and effect is soooo confusing!

You could have stopped a while ago when I said I'm not interested in a convo unless it was something substantive, but you kept replying and while doing so, misrepresented both my own actions and your own posts. That is the only reason I have replied till now- I don't like letting bullshit stand. Your last reply makes me think you have nothing to offer at this point beyond trying to get the last word in and trying and make your "opponent" look bad.

Yeah- I'm really inclined to take anything you have to say seriously after you behaved like this. Bye Felicia <3

[ornotna]

70. ffs indeed!

For an OP that you find pointless, you sure are posting in it quite a bit. Trash this thread is your friend.

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. Yeah, that lesser dems shit pisses me off, and there is no bigger supporter of Al on this site

I was going to respond to the OP but I wont, just know your position is supported.

It is comments like that which will divide us even more and assure the GOP retains power ...

[arithia]

41. thank you!

Ignoring the realities of politics (and lets face it, it WAS a political decision- Franken stepping down was taking one for the team. In doing so, he proved himself to be the mature, compassionate adult his constituents know him to be) wont defeat the repugs. It won't remove our corrupt president and his terrible collection of Swamp Things from power.

It will, however, divide the voter base like it did last election. All it takes is 1-2% of the vote to pull away. We know this. I fail to understand why so many here on DU collectively continue to shoot the party in the foot with that gun.

[tonedevil]

37. Congratulations...

You have taken us thorough a magic looking glass where we have seen a whining whiner whining about somebody else whining.

[disndat]

81. +1

Touche. Terrific. N/T

[HelenWheels]

83. Your comments about Franken are off base

Senator Franken was and is a "grown ass man." He was the strongest and most effective senator the Democrats had. Now he has been replaced by a person with no experience and one who will have difficulty holding the seat.
Gillibrand has her eyes on the presidency and Al would have beat her at that. She used a photo (singular not photos) to get rid of her competition. The Republicans should thank her for joining their scheme to get rid of a senator who was a real threat against them.

[Hugin]

18. K&R

[Binkie The Clown]

21. Stand by for the "forget it and move on" replies. IMHO, we should NEVER forget what was done to him.

and by whom.

[LakeArenal]

68. My position also. Thanks.

[G_j]

29. K&R!

[Historic NY]

30. Another reason to suspect Stone's ratfucking...

we've heard nothing no investigation just his resignation.

[NCTraveler]

32. Stop making individuals out to be deities.

It's the worst part about hyper-partisan politics that ignore all of the facts.

This investigation is happening because of us. The people. There were also other Democrats from the hearings that had an impact. You are minimizing that in order to make a flawed politician out to be a God.

You should be livid at Franken for resigning without any fight at all.

[brush]

40. Oh, please. We should be livid at those who didn't stand by him through an investigation, instead...

calling for him to step down.

[pazzyanne]

50. Let me tell you what I am livid about!

I am livid about the fact that a group of senators lynched one of their own without any input from his constituency. This is the kind of crap that the republicans do, and silly me, I expected more from the Democrats. We DID NOT TAKE THE HIGH ROAD ON THIS! Lynching your own without due process is about as low as you can go. Call me disillusioned. I expected more from the Democrats than I got as a Minnesota voter.

[standingtall]

66. No we should be livid at the 30 plus Democrats who demanded he resign

before an ethics investigation. Signaling that it would be impossible for him to get a fair hearing and you could bet that all 52 repukes would've agreed he should resign it was a simple matter of math.

[WhiteTara]

49. He had to go.

Schumer feared for his leadership post and Gillibrand feared for her shot at the Presidency.

[The Wizard]

51. Schumer is weak and Gilebrand shot herself in the foot.

No wonder the Democratic Party loses to reprobates like Trump and his jihad.

[NBachers]

54. I agree with you, White Tara.

[Progressive dog]

61. That must be why he resigned

He knew he had to go because his staying would damage the Democratic party. That part is at least plausible.

[niyad]

65. k and r

[Alice11111]

67. I'm with you, Brush. Without Franken, Sessions would still be the Good Elf. We don't have anyone eve

close to Franken in intelligence, courage, and skill, in the Senate, to get us through this next round.

Had G and her charges spent that energy wounding the Abuser-in-Chief, rather than taking down our best Democratic voice, we would have much better odds of a good outcome in these Repub led investigations, for Democrats. (Not to even mention, there was nothing credible even close to sex harassment, legally or intentionally.)

But we took the high road?*$#? and Donald Trump felt contrition and resigned. Of course, we knew Repubs would do the right thing, if we sacrificed an innocent Democratic leader.

[magicarpet]

69. Out with Sessions.... In with Pruitt......

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210063768

[OhioBlue]

71. We lost so much with that dem capitulation!

[zentrum]

73. Yes, that's what

….Franken did and I don't believe any other Democrat could have.

Should call and thank him.

I can't get over that he was pushed out.

[Curtis]

74. Isn't it interesting

That now that Franken is gone all the accusations have stopped? Strange as it almost seems he was a target . . . .

[brush]

75. He was, and certain people fell for it.

[Curtis]

77. Yep

.

[JI7]

78. it's also interesting that every single one of Franken's accusors insisted there be NO investigation

franken was swift boated and a lot of it had to do with his exposing trump .

[oberliner]

79. Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren are lesser Democrats?

[INdemo]

82. When the smoke clears I believe we will find that Sessions,through his operatives

were key players in bringing forth Franken's accusers and their false accusations..It just too damn bad that many Democrats (33 of them to be exact) were very quick to judge without an Ethics Committee hearing.......................