How to react to people like Robert F Kennedy, Jr., and Oprah Winfrey re vaccinations?

[LAS14]

I was disappointed to learn that Oprah Winfrey had seriously joined the anti-vaccination movement. I knew that Robert Kennedy, Jr., had. How does one deal with mostly admirable people having such wrong headed opinions?

[jberryhill]

1. Depends on what you mean

How do you "react to people" in general?

Not everything that anyone does merits any sort of "reaction". I imagine that would keep one extremely busy reacting to things all of the time.

However, I would never cast a vote for a person who promotes such nonsense, and I don't care what their party affiliation is.

If people want to believe and promote harmful shit, that's fine. But putting them in positions of responsibility for making decisions for others is foolish.

[csziggy]

2. I can no longer trust their judgements on anything

If they dismiss vaccinations because they are so ill informed about vaccinations. To me it would mean that their logical thinking is flawed irretrievably.

[SCantiGOP]

25. I agree

I don’t mind being judgmental: anyone who is anti-vac is an idiot and I wouldn't trust their judgment on anything else.

[Phoenix61]

3. Proof we are lagging the rest of the world in science education

Apparently, people are no longer taught how to read and interpret statistical data. Neither of those individuals has a science background but unfortunately people will listen to them and make decisions based on what they say. Pathetic, just pathetic.

[Basic LA]

4. Deal breaker, in this scientific age.

Unless they win the primary, I suppose.

[nycbos]

5. It means that their views on anything should not be taken seriously.

The anti vax people are bringing back diseases we eradicated.

[LAS14]

6. But both have a lot of good views, and the position to support them....

[nycbos]

10. If you peddle anti science bunk in the 21st century your voice...

... on your other views are greatly diminished.

[elleng]

7. Pay little attention, unless you're a one-issue voter.

[BootinUp]

8. 30 Lashes. nt

[GulfCoast66]

9. That they are fucking idiots

And while the may undertake admirable projects, neither deserves to be in a position of authority.

Would anyone here support a climate change denier or someone who thinks the earth is 6k years old? Same shit.

[nycbos]

11. +1

[ucrdem]

12. As I understand it RFK Jr. objects to the mercury used to preserve multi-dose vaccines,

not to the vaccines themselves. At least that was the point of his 2005 Rolling Stone article.

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. You understand incorrectly

thimerosal has not been used as a preservative in childhood vaccines in two decades.

[ucrdem]

17. Nevertheless it's in the title of the article. nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

18. The article is a steaming pile of bullshit and RFK Jr is a crank.

The article was so bad that there were multiple corrections added to it and then it was retracted completely. The premise is false and has been disproven by multiple studies (and by the fact that thimerosal as a preservative was removed from all childhoold vaccines in 2002, with no decrease in the prevalence of autistic spectrum disorders).

[pnwmom]

19. It was banned in 2001, but was used till the stocks ran out. And the use was continued

in the influenza vaccine, which is given to pregnant women and children -- though it is possible to get a single dose vaccine without thimerosal , and that's what I would ask for if I were in that situation.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. But there is no correlation.

There has been no decrease in autism prevalence despite the removal of thimerosla from all childhood vaccines. The supposed link DOES NOT EXIST.

[pnwmom]

35. I don't think injecting mercury into pregnant women and children is a good idea

putting aside the debate about autism. And since you can get single-dose vials, that's what I would want.

(And I know that this is a special form of mercury but I still wouldn't want it if I were pregnant. You're welcome to shoot yourself up with it, I don't care.)

http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/thimerosal.htm

A. All vaccines either do not contain thimerosal or contain thimerosal within FDA guidelines. To further increase the margin of safety that already exists, clinicians can use the inherent flexibility in the current immunization schedule to fully vaccinate children and meet even the most conservative guidelines for cumulative mercury exposure. However, exposure to any form of mercury from any source should be minimized and Public Health Service agencies are working with private physician groups and vaccine manufacturers to expedite the process to reduce or eliminate thimerosal from vaccines used in the United States.

[Spider Jerusalem]

36. There is no correlation between vaccines and autism.

This is something that has been extensively debunked.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/four-vaccine-myths-and-where-they-came

https://www.aap.org/en-us/documents/immunization_vaccine_studies.pdf

http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347

[pnwmom]

41. I didn't say it had ANYTHING to do with autism. I said I wouldn't want it

ASIDE from autism. In other words, putting aside that debate, I still wouldn't want -- if I were pregnant -- to be injected with any form of mercury. Not when the solution is as simple as a single use vial.


http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/thimerosal.htm

A. All vaccines either do not contain thimerosal or contain thimerosal within FDA guidelines. To further increase the margin of safety that already exists, clinicians can use the inherent flexibility in the current immunization schedule to fully vaccinate children and meet even the most conservative guidelines for cumulative mercury exposure. However, exposure to any form of mercury from any source should be minimized and Public Health Service agencies are working with private physician groups and vaccine manufacturers to expedite the process to reduce or eliminate thimerosal from vaccines used in the United States.

[Spider Jerusalem]

43. "aside from" implies that you think there's a connection

and I'm familiar enough with your posting history on this subject to be quite aware of your general ignorance of and disdain for actual science, thanks.

[pnwmom]

45. No, it absolutely doesn't.

I guess I've just learned something about your general ignorance of the meaning of actual words, thanks.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/aside?s=t

adverb
1.
on or to one side; to or at a short distance apart; away from some position or direction:


2.
away from one's thoughts or consideration:

[Spider Jerusalem]

47. Again, I'm familiar with your posting history. Don't try to bullshit me.

[pnwmom]

49. Yeah, right.

[GulfCoast66]

37. Well, I think licorice taste like shit

But the nice thing about science is that I do not get to claim that Licorice is shit. Well, I can claim it is shit. But will be wrong.

The fact that you think these vaccines are bad means nothing.

You even admitted that this is a ‘special’ form of mercury but then pretend it is not.

Next week why not tell us why climate change is a hoax. Because what you are spewing about vaccines has even less scientific justification than climate change deniers.

[pnwmom]

42. There is no reason that anyone needs to be injected with mercury when the solution

is a single use vial.

And again, from the State of Illinois web site:


http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/thimerosal.htm

A. All vaccines either do not contain thimerosal or contain thimerosal within FDA guidelines. To further increase the margin of safety that already exists, clinicians can use the inherent flexibility in the current immunization schedule to fully vaccinate children and meet even the most conservative guidelines for cumulative mercury exposure. However, exposure to any form of mercury from any source should be minimized and Public Health Service agencies are working with private physician groups and vaccine manufacturers to expedite the process to reduce or eliminate thimerosal from vaccines used in the United States.

[GulfCoast66]

44. And what does this Mercury do? Just clear the air.

Most of us reading this believe you think Mercury is related to autism. Despite the evidence.

At least clear that up for me.

Cause if you believe that then you are not science based but conspiracy based. If there is some other unknown risk of these vaccines please inform us.

[pnwmom]

48. The health department in Illinois analyzed the science before they made their decision.

And I am NOT making the claim that mercury in vaccines has been shown to cause autism. I'd just rather follow the State of Illinois recommendation to minimize or eliminate exposure to all forms of mercury (especially for pregnant women and small children), since the solution is a single-use vial.

That's how I'd feel about any toxin. Avoid exposure as much as reasonably possible.

You want more information about Mercury? This is from the NIH.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3096006/

Abstract
Acute or chronic mercury exposure can cause adverse effects during any period of development. Mercury is a highly toxic element; there is no known safe level of exposure. Ideally, neither children nor adults should have any mercury in their bodies because it provides no physiological benefit. Prenatal and postnatal mercury exposures occur frequently in many different ways. Pediatricians, nurses, and other health care providers should understand the scope of mercury exposures and health problems among children and be prepared to handle mercury exposures in medical practice. Prevention is the key to reducing mercury poisoning. Mercury exists in different chemical forms: elemental (or metallic), inorganic, and organic (methylmercury and ethyl mercury). Mercury exposure can cause acute and chronic intoxication at low levels of exposure. Mercury is neuro-, nephro-, and immunotoxic. The development of the child in utero and early in life is at particular risk. Mercury is ubiquitous and persistent. Mercury is a global pollutant, bio-accumulating, mainly through the aquatic food chain, resulting in a serious health hazard for children. This article provides an extensive review of mercury exposure and children’s health.

SNIP

There are 3 main sources of mercury in health care. The first source is dental amalgam, which contains up to 50% elemental mercury. Studies have not associated the exposure from amalgams with health outcomes among children; however, it contributes to the contamination of air when the bodies are cremated.1 In some countries, amalgam is being replaced due to the precautionary principle by mercury-free filling materials. In other countries dental amalgam is still in use, mainly due to financial aspects.35 The second source of mercury in health care is multidose activated vaccines containing ethyl mercury as a preservative. The third source of mercury in health care is the ongoing use of mercury-containing measuring devices, such as thermometers and other devices. Mercury-containing thermometers, sphygmomanometers, some barometers, manometers, switches and gauges used in medical instruments, thermostats, and some medical tubes are a concern in hospital environments because they can release elemental mercury vapor when broken. The production of mercury thermometers is decreasing,27 but they are still in demand. Mercury-free thermometers are now widely accepted.

SNIP

Sources of Children’s Exposure to Inorganic Mercury
Inorganic mercury compounds show antiseptic, laxative, and diuretic properties. The medicinal use of mercury salts has nearly disappeared since a ban was placed on distributing consumer products containing mercury salts. Thiomersal, with ethyl mercury as a decomposition product, was formerly used as a topical antiseptic and is still found in some multidose inactivated vaccines.

SNIP

Genotoxicity, Mutagenesis
Mercury seems to have a weak mutagenic potential.3,143 Thimerosal induces significantly sister chromatid exchanges, indicating a genotoxic and cytotoxic effect of thimerosal in cultured human peripheral blood lymphocytes.

SNIP

World Health Organization Recommendations
National, regional, and global actions, both immediate and long term, are needed to reduce or eliminate releases of mercury and its compounds to the environment. The WHO has committed to work with the health sector and national, regional, and global health partners in these efforts.1

World Health Organization Recommendations to Reduce Mercury Exposure
Reduce mercury exposure
—Eliminate the use of mercury wherever possible
—Promote the development of alternatives to the use of mercury

[Phoenix61]

52. If you are worried about Mercury

You should be more concerned about how much of it is in fish that people consume on a regular basis.

[pnwmom]

53. Agreed. Exposure from all sources should be limited as much as possible --

especially in pregnant women and small children.

Too bad eating mercury-free fish isn't as simple as getting a flu vaccine in a single-use vial. So when I was pregnant and nursing, I didn't eat tuna fish, because it is one of the fish that may contain mercury.

[ucrdem]

32. Yes, and that is what I ask for

when I get flu shots at Kaiser Permanente. They automatically give mercury-free doses to certain people based on a questionnaire, and to others if we ask. From your link:

"Influenza (flu) vaccines are currently available in both thimerosal-containing (for multi-dose vaccine vials) and thimerosal-free versions."

[womanofthehills]

40. but thimerosal is still used in multi dose flu vaccines

the childhood vaccines are very safe because they have been perfected, it's the flu vaccines that cause more problems because they are made new each year.

[GulfCoast66]

46. What problems exactly?

[ucrdem]

50. from the 2017 Vaccine Injury Compensation Data

Vaccine Injury Table:

XIV. Seasonal influenza vaccines:

Illness, disability, injury or condition covered:

A. Anaphylaxis .
B. Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccine Administration.
C. Vasovagal syncope.
D. Guillain-Barré Syndrome.

More here: https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compensation/vaccine-injury-table.pdf

[pnwmom]

54. This article from the NIH discusses the risks of all forms of mercury

and the need to limit exposure as much as possible.

And eliminating mercury from vaccines is simple: single use vials.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3096006/

[Captain Stern]

13. I react to them by appeciating the good that they've done.

But, at the same time, I also appreciate that they are are not qualified to be in any position where their opinions should have any influence on public policy.

I'd write in 'Donald Duck' or 'Eric Cartman' over any anti-vaccination moron, regardless of which party the anti-vax moron was representing.

[Codeine]

16. Always Cartman.

I can’t respect the authoritah of antivaxxer.

[ismnotwasm]

14. Winfrey isnt an anti-vaxxer

She gave a platform for morons like Jenny Mcarthy on her show. In fact she had a lot of nonsense on her show. I don’t think she’s running for President either. I think she’s basically a good women with good intentions who has fucked up on occasion

[brush]

21. You're right. Oprah's not an anti-vaxxer.

[Hekate]

20. Deal breaker for any run for office, like "not believing in" birth control

Clear enough?

Additionally, I would like proof of any such accusations, just as I would other allegations.

[EllieBC]

33. +1000000 nt

[Raine]

23. Oprah goes under the bus

that didn't take long..

[Act_of_Reparation]

55. It's really of unfair of us to expect an understanding of basic science in our leaders.

[Beaverhausen]

24. Got proof shes an anti vaxxer?

Please share

[obnoxiousdrunk]

28. That would

spoil the story line. Ssshhh...

[progressoid]

30. She signed on Jenny McCarthy to a multi-platform, multi-year development deal with Harpo productions

As if repeatedly giving anti-vaxxers a voice on her show wasn't bad enough. http://ew.com/article/2009/05/04/jenny-mccarthy/

[Beaverhausen]

31. Thanks for that up-to-date news story. Still doesnt prove she herself is an anti-VAX her

[progressoid]

34. O hasn't had a tv show for 7 years so that's as current as I could find.

Regardless of the time frame, just knowing she would seed her company's money to an anti-vaxxer is a deal breaker.

[Puzzledtraveller]

26. but there are anti-vax progs

meaning in every other way they are progressive, not saying that's me but I wonder if we could support a good candidate if that was the only thing.

[radical noodle]

51. Would we support a good progressive

who helped promote curing cancer through prayer only? I think science is important to progressives, or should be.

[dlk]

27. Disbelief in Proven Science is a Red Flag

There is a war on science, facts and reason. Is this the world we wish to inhabit?

[GulfCoast66]

39. Right there with you

It is always entertaining on DU to read the science sceptics beat around the bush to try to defend their beliefs without actually admitting them.

With vaccines it always comes back to Mercury even though that has been proven safe.

[samnsara]

29. you dont....these are careless and reckless beliefs...

[BoneyardDem]

38. Great......Trump's no good horrid day....and you searched for this?

You are truly a master.