Even rednecks can change their minds

[captain queeg]

You can’t push them, they just dig in their heels more. But most aren’t actually stupid (just ignorant).

I grew up near Kent State. I wasn’t there for the shootings, but my brother was. I went to Kent In 77 I think; several years after the massacre. As a student I had a weekend job as a security guard. They’d hire us college kids mostly to keep a plant inhabited over the weekend to keep their fire insurance down. One place decided we need to search employees’ lunch boxes as they left at the end of shift. By that time I’d worked blue collar jobs for several years and was so embarrassed to have to ask the guys to open their lunch boxes for me. (This place made the kind of gas meters they used to have mounted on an outside wall where gas came into the house. Yeah, I’m sure those would be worth stealing)

But I got talking to one old guy, when he found out I was going to KSU. He told me back when it happened he was one of them saying “they should have shot a few more”. Now he thought it was a terrible event and the government should have never let it come to that. I didn’t really know what to say to him. Mostly I was stunned that time had wrought the change of attitude and just nodded my head.

[Irish_Dem]

1. I remember it clearly, Kent State shootings occurred in May of 1970.

The Ohio National Guard shot unarmed college students who were protesting the Viet Nam War on the Kent State University campus. For students around the country is was shocking and horrific. The thought that the government was gunning us down for speaking out against the war was unbelievable.

Students went on strike on many campuses, and all of this did turn the tide in public opinion against the war.

[Ohiogal]

2. Hi there Captain

I'm a Kent State alum, graduated in '78.

What a great place to spend four years. I loved every minute. Especially the bars downtown and the Kent Community Store where I bought all my great music!

How wonderful that your story had a happy ending. I think, the older I get, the more liberal I get. Even though many people say the opposite is true. Glad that this one guy you spoke of became enlightened. I was raised in a home where my father was prejudiced against just about everyone. I must have heard every racial epithet in the book.People do change once they get out in the world and broaden their horizons a little.

[captain queeg]

6. I didnt graduate there

Only wentfor a year, I think it was either 76/77 or maybe 77/78. Definitely when you were there. Don’t remember the various bars names. I frequented the one down on Water street (I think that was it) that served beer in mason jars. I think it was a buck, good deal for a poor college kid. Then there was a big dance bar called. Filthy McNastys. I remember the name of that one because we used to go there before I went to Kent.

I figured there’d be a few ex KSU people here I really like going to college there but decided I just wasn’t ready and didn’t know what I wanted to do. I came out west right after that year at Kent I finally graduated from Washington State several years later. I still have a couple sisters that live back on that area but haven’t been back for 5-6 years now.

[Different Drummer]

3. ...

[captain queeg]

8. Thanks for this

I tried saying it before, but didn’t seem to post. Of course there are many videos that go with this great song; but i hadn’t seen this version. Brings back memories.

[appalachiablue]

4. Such benevolence is unique- 'can change minds; but can't push them;

most aren't actually stupid, just ignorant." You must have real redneck expertise; sure they're redeemable? What about other groups, XXXXX. Please share.

[captain queeg]

7. Cant tell if you are being scarcastic

First, not many rednecks take offense at the title. Maybe back in the 70s it bothered some, but nowadays it’s a badge of honor for many.

Of course I am making generalities, just like everyone else her talking about the repugs or RW. Certainly there are individuals that are part of that group that share few of the attributes we tend to assign to that group.

If you are really wondering if I have “redneck expertise” I grew up in a small town in the rust belt, worked blue collar jobs for about 15 years all over the US and am just sharing my observations.

[appalachiablue]

9. The slang word is long known as a derogatory term for 100s of years

despite the fact that in the last 15-20 years some groups and individuals have used it to self identify, even the liberal organization 'Redneck Revolt.'
No it's not alright with many because of the history and negative use. People still take offense at the term, and the misuse of it for good reason. The generalization of people from many different areas, backgrounds and views that are regarded as all the same is particularly noxious. I wasn't being sarcastic. Initially I thought your condescending comments were similar to descriptions and traits used for animals like horses and dogs selected and employed for work on farms and other activities. I wonder who/what you consider a 'redneck', and asked how you view other groups. But that's ok, thanks for reply.
I grew up a few hours from Kent State, remember the awful incident well, met many people from Ohio colleges & traveled in HS and early college to Oberlin, OSU, Ohio Univ., Marietta College.

redneck: noun 1. an uneducated white farm laborer, especially from the South.
2. a bigot or reactionary, especially from the rural working class.
adjective 3. Also, red-necked. narrow, prejudiced, or reactionary:
a redneck attitude. Synonyms: biased, narrow-minded, intolerant. Antonyms: fair-minded, open-minded, broad-minded, tolerant, unbiased, impartial. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/redneck

redneck: The term redneck is a derogatory term chiefly used for a rural poor white person of the Southern United States.[1][2] Its usage is similar in meaning to cracker (especially regarding Georgia, Texas,[1] and Florida), hillbilly (especially regarding Appalachia and the Ozarks),[3] and white trash (but without the last term's suggestions of immorality).[4][5][6] By the 1970s, the term had become offensive slang, and its meaning had expanded to mean bigoted, loutish, and opposed to modern ways.[7] Patrick Huber has emphasized the theme of masculinity in the continued expansion of the term in the 20th century, noting, "The redneck has been stereotyped in the media and popular culture as a poor, dirty, uneducated, and racist Southern white man."[8]
> Late 20th and early 21st centuries
Writers Edward Abbey and Dave Foreman also use "redneck" as a political call to mobilize poor rural white Southerners. "In Defense of the Redneck" was a popular essay by Ed Abbey. One popular early Earth First! bumper sticker was "Rednecks for Wilderness". Murray Bookchin, an urban leftist and social ecologist, objected strongly to Earth First!'s use of the term as "at the very least, insensitive".[20]
But many members of the Southern community have proudly embraced the term as a self-identifier.[21][22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck

[captain queeg]

10. I admit I got my hackles up when I first read your post

But I see that you are being sincere. I think you misinterpreted the thrust of my original post in which I was standing up for “rednecks” and their ability to process real information and come to new conclusions, albeit somewhat slowly. Choice of the word redneck was just convenient. Any label chosen is obviously a “glittering generality” as my old HS teacher would say. Another example of a red neck changing his standing would be my brother in law who is quite conservative, but a dyed in the wool union supporter. Once he saw where Republicans stood on (against) unions he is totally in support of democrats. What prompted me to write was all the recent news about Trump and the Russians. My thought was people will continue to dig in their heels but they are not blind to the steady stream of increasing evidence of corruption.

Let me ask you, and I am being sincere, what do you think of when you think of a redneck? Is your own prejudice coloring your interpretation? Have you been immersed in redneck culture? Have you worked for years besidethe poor SOB who is reasonably intelligent but is almost certainly never going to do any better than that shit job you are both engaged in at the moment? Just hoping to be able to feed his family and maybe own his own home? A shitty job that relies on you breaking your back?

I would say that’s what I tend to think of when I think of a redneck. That, and being white. The white part is just part of my personal experience. Probably even worse for people of color but my experience is limited in those areas. Mostly Hispanic (with a large number of “wetbacks”) and somewhat unique in my experience a great many Amish. I’m sure I’ll catch hell for this but we used to joke Amish weren’t really white. As you can see I absorbed much of what we’d call redneck culture.

And while I appreciate your education on the term redneck I can prettymuch assure you any red neck who read your post with included history would shake his head head and dismiss you as an egg head or some other equally dismissive thought. Kind of unfortunate, because you were standing up for them. Part of that culture at least within my experience.

[mia]

11. "Redneck" is a derogatory term.

Is it possible to make the same argument without resorting to racism?

[phylny]

5. Can we not use the term rednecks, which is a derogatory term? nt