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underpants

(182,064 posts)
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:15 PM Jan 2018

Religion question - Do Catholics NOT accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior?

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by DonViejo (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Someone I know just got back from week in Puerto Rico as part of a volunteer effort. Church based, about 15 people, mostly out of Lynchburg.

Okay so they went and stayed in "the Mission house". Cleared down trees, cleaned and painted house interiors, etc.

Today I asked this person about their experience and was told the following:
"On Tuesday we scraped and painted the first floor rooms of this elderly woman's house. She had 8 feet of water and mud in her 10 foot rooms."
I listen on...
"On Friday before we left I had a chance to go back and visit her again. Since I grew up Catholic (converted to Baptist years ago - very conservative Baptist) and she is you know Catholic I thought we had something in common there. It was great, in the end she agreed to accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior"
I complimented her again and thanked her on her great work and that she really made a difference I'm sure.

Two things:
1. I thought this purely a volunteer effort not a mission - I guess I was naive or she might have just done this on her own.
2. Don't Catholics believe that Jesus is the Lord and Savior? Or is she just taking credit for an "easy win"?

118 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Religion question - Do Catholics NOT accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior? (Original Post) underpants Jan 2018 OP
That's what I was taught! 12year survivor of Catholic school. 50 Shades Of Blue Jan 2018 #1
I am a 12 year survivor also rurallib Jan 2018 #8
I graduated in 1970 myself! 50 Shades Of Blue Jan 2018 #17
It's sola fidelis Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #30
Im a convert DUgosh Jan 2018 #2
Perhaps the woman agreed to accept..... CatMor Jan 2018 #3
Bet this sort of exchange happens often. nt PufPuf23 Jan 2018 #6
Funny I was thinking the same thing underpants Jan 2018 #7
Bingo Dorian Gray Jan 2018 #40
Or just to get food. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #59
Speaking as a professional church musician teenagebambam Jan 2018 #4
Yeah I could see that underpants Jan 2018 #11
Speaking as an escaped Catholic, that whole "Lord & Savior" bizness is not a "thing" for Catholics. scarletwoman Jan 2018 #5
Yes I agree. I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic schools, this wording is foreign to me. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #18
Thank you. I appreciate your point about the differentiation between the use of Christ vs. Jesus. scarletwoman Jan 2018 #36
Yes exactly, when we were baptized we entered the Church and its teachings. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #43
And yes, Catholic charities were important, and Nuns helped tame the west. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #47
Both are required in Catholicism. Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #48
Protestants also believe in good works. raging moderate Jan 2018 #88
No. Sola fidelis was one of Martin Luther's statements Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #98
Amazing how ingrained KatyMan Jan 2018 #51
Totally agree. greatauntoftriplets Jan 2018 #52
Once you're RC, you're in the club. rickford66 Jan 2018 #67
Humm,, I also learned the Apostles' Creed as a Presbyterian in the 1950s. pangaia Jan 2018 #80
Yep OriginalGeek Jan 2018 #9
Yes, we do. WillowTree Jan 2018 #10
Bag of worms jberryhill Jan 2018 #12
Thanks underpants Jan 2018 #14
If you really want to have fun with a sola scriptural Protestant Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #35
Catholics do.....but that is not all that is required of the faithful ollie10 Jan 2018 #13
Evangelicals don't believe that Catholics are "saved" LeftInTX Jan 2018 #15
This Catholic doesn't believe RW evangelicals are "saved" meow2u3 Jan 2018 #69
Actually, you are talking about Fundamentalists. raging moderate Jan 2018 #89
You have a point meow2u3 Jan 2018 #113
Well I'm no expert but I'm going to mention a difference lunasun Jan 2018 #16
The Apostles Creed : moriah Jan 2018 #19
Catholics absolutely believe Jesus is the Lord and savior tymorial Jan 2018 #20
Protestants don't believe that Catholics believe or worship Jesus. It is crazy. SweetieD Jan 2018 #21
It's the new Anabaptist movement. moriah Jan 2018 #24
Most of us do, Dear. raging moderate Jan 2018 #91
:) Hortensis Jan 2018 #116
Sorry, I have to laugh safeinOhio Jan 2018 #22
Southern Baptist Convention underpants Jan 2018 #37
There are differences with-in the SBC too. safeinOhio Jan 2018 #49
Yes Catholics do believe it...but evangelicals think Catholics are not Christian. Hubs Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #23
Pretty much depends safeinOhio Jan 2018 #25
Which is a bit of a joke, considering whathehell Jan 2018 #44
Of course they do.. whathehell Jan 2018 #26
It's the "born again" thing mcar Jan 2018 #27
Born again is an evangelical Protestant ritual. Not Catholic and not mainstream Protestants anneboleyn Jan 2018 #56
Yes mcar Jan 2018 #70
Actually, you are talking about Fundamentalists. raging moderate Jan 2018 #90
The divide was due primarily to Martin Luther. Towlie Jan 2018 #28
George Washington Carver dlwickham Jan 2018 #100
Sigh...So here's what this is about Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #29
And both can prove their respective positions with copious Bible quotes. Towlie Jan 2018 #34
No. Catholics do not and never have believed in using the Bible Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #39
True, the Bible is not really a big thing with Catholics melman Jan 2018 #54
Thanks underpants Jan 2018 #42
I have a real issue with Calvinism Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #46
James 2 verse 24 standingtall Jan 2018 #63
So here is where this falls apart, Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #71
Eternal security is biblical truth standingtall Jan 2018 #75
Funny how sola scriptura can ignore Jesus's own words Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #77
Peter is not the rock Christ is standingtall Jan 2018 #81
Nope. That's not what He said. Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #87
That is what the bible teaches standingtall Jan 2018 #92
I don't want to get it. Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #95
The Waldensians used a bible translated long before standingtall Jan 2018 #99
If Andrew knew Christ before Peter, why is Peter called Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #101
The Apocrypha was never considered inspired scripture standingtall Jan 2018 #103
The Apocrypha was noted as early as 382 at Council of Rome Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #104
The council of Rome was a local coucil and not an standingtall Jan 2018 #105
If it's divinely inspired but only the one you believe Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #106
Yeah that basically what presuppositions are standingtall Jan 2018 #107
The Catholic Church did not officially declare them scripture Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #109
"God is not an [expletive deleted]" (rhymes with mindian giver) OriginalGeek Jan 2018 #78
Yes, but I do not remember it being stressed a whole lot mvd Jan 2018 #31
That phrase means her Catholic friend converted to Fundamentalist Protestantism jmowreader Jan 2018 #32
I am Jewish, but from growing up in the midwest, from what I observed that innuendo came still_one Jan 2018 #33
You observed correctly. Evangelicals do not MaryMagdaline Jan 2018 #55
I personally have never met a Jewish person who believed that Catholics were not Christians. When still_one Jan 2018 #62
I live south of mason dixon line MaryMagdaline Jan 2018 #64
Five years ago, I had an employee MurrayDelph Jan 2018 #73
Oh God. When our family moved to Georgia MaryMagdaline Jan 2018 #74
We do.... Dorian Gray Jan 2018 #38
Ha! underpants Jan 2018 #45
Evangelicals believe you have to invite Jesus into your heart. Catholics believe he is already ther. Iris Jan 2018 #41
Not quite. Catholics, unlike evangelicals, believe in infant or childhood Baptism, where the parents pnwmom Jan 2018 #94
Baptism is different from being saved Iris Jan 2018 #110
It isn't different in the view of Catholics. To Catholics, people are "reborn" in Baptism. pnwmom Jan 2018 #112
Catholics are baptized as infants and don't believe you have to be born again. AJT Jan 2018 #50
Baptism IS being born again! meow2u3 Jan 2018 #72
Yes. Jesus is Lord and Savior but MaryMagdaline Jan 2018 #53
Confirmation has little to do with the Nicene Creed Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #61
God my catholic education was bad. MaryMagdaline Jan 2018 #65
It's okay. Most of the Catholics out there really don't understand Drahthaardogs Jan 2018 #66
You are both right. Confirmation IS about confirming our faith because pnwmom Jan 2018 #97
I grew up Catholic in Baptist country dawg day Jan 2018 #57
A friend of mine was son of a Baptist Missionary who came to the Philippines... brooklynite Jan 2018 #58
It's the Baptist Thing bitterross Jan 2018 #60
Jesus did come here to teach us how to live standingtall Jan 2018 #68
Ha, my Methodist cousins are fond of joking about baptists OriginalGeek Jan 2018 #79
That is hilarious - and so dead on! bitterross Jan 2018 #82
That's another one the cousins told me OriginalGeek Jan 2018 #83
Here it is bitterross Jan 2018 #84
Yes! OriginalGeek Jan 2018 #86
They do. . . BigDemVoter Jan 2018 #76
I am agnostic on this. OAITW r.2.0 Jan 2018 #85
Of course they do. But some non-Catholics think they worship the Pope. pnwmom Jan 2018 #93
It's not the Catholics that are exceptions, it's the evangelicals. LAS14 Jan 2018 #96
ALL religions agree on one basic belief: Binkie The Clown Jan 2018 #102
That's overly cynical ColemanMaskell Jan 2018 #108
It was an easy win. JNelson6563 Jan 2018 #111
The elderly woman was probably being polite. Vinca Jan 2018 #114
I like to think Jesus accepts me Stanley Roper Jan 2018 #115
Even Satan believes in Christ Kaleva Jan 2018 #117
Locking.... DonViejo Jan 2018 #118

50 Shades Of Blue

(9,728 posts)
1. That's what I was taught! 12year survivor of Catholic school.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:20 PM
Jan 2018

IOW of course they do.

rurallib

(62,328 posts)
8. I am a 12 year survivor also
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:30 PM
Jan 2018

while Catholicism is all Jesus all the time, I don't ever remember it phrase as "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior."
I am an older guy so I escaped the asylum in 1967. Things may have changed since them.

My guess is that the "Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior" schtick is a protestant expression of personal salvation which at least at that time was a different approach than what Catholics were teaching.

Frankly I am not sure what they were really teaching, but it wasn't personal salvation. It was Christ-centered, ut not personal salvation.

Boy am I glad I escaped.

50 Shades Of Blue

(9,728 posts)
17. I graduated in 1970 myself!
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:38 PM
Jan 2018

it would be funny if it weren't so potentially fraught that different offshoots of the same belief system are so dismissive of each other. I'm happily done with it all!

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
30. It's sola fidelis
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:53 PM
Jan 2018

And it's bullshit. See my reply below.

DUgosh

(3,051 posts)
2. Im a convert
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:21 PM
Jan 2018

Yes, we believe Jesus is our Lord and Savior.

CatMor

(6,212 posts)
3. Perhaps the woman agreed to accept.....
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:23 PM
Jan 2018

just to be polite and have your friend go away.

PufPuf23

(8,679 posts)
6. Bet this sort of exchange happens often. nt
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:29 PM
Jan 2018

underpants

(182,064 posts)
7. Funny I was thinking the same thing
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:30 PM
Jan 2018

This person can be irritating and not just pertaining to religion at which they are RELENTLESS. I have to watch what I say a lot. One "God" even as an exclamation deeply offends them. It's religious "PC" but they don't understand that.

Dorian Gray

(13,463 posts)
40. Bingo
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:59 PM
Jan 2018
 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
59. Or just to get food.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:29 PM
Jan 2018

There were roomers about Irish Catholics being forced to go Protestant to avoid starvation during the Black 47(the Famine).

teenagebambam

(1,592 posts)
4. Speaking as a professional church musician
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:24 PM
Jan 2018

who has served in every denomination under the sun...my experience is that Baptists consider anyone who is not a Baptist to be "unsaved". Catholics might as well be devil worshippers.

underpants

(182,064 posts)
11. Yeah I could see that
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:32 PM
Jan 2018

There was a serious pause when this person said that the elderly woman "...is .....you know... Catholic". I should have put that in the OP.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
5. Speaking as an escaped Catholic, that whole "Lord & Savior" bizness is not a "thing" for Catholics.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:26 PM
Jan 2018

I attended Catholic schools until 8th grade. There was never anything about "accepting Jesus Christ as my/your Lord and Savior" - that's strictly a Protestant/Evangelical thing.

We were taught the "Apostle's Creed":

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

Irish_Dem

(45,215 posts)
18. Yes I agree. I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic schools, this wording is foreign to me.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:39 PM
Jan 2018

"Accepting Jesus as your lord and savior" is a Protestant thing.
I do not remember the nuns, priests or my parents talking about "Jesus".
He was referred to as "Christ."

The only time I heard the name Jesus is when we talked about Baby Jesus in the manger at Christmas time.

Protestants talked about "Jesus". Struck me as a child as being disrespectful and too familiar with the Deity.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
36. Thank you. I appreciate your point about the differentiation between the use of Christ vs. Jesus.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:56 PM
Jan 2018

I'm 68 years old, so my Catholic school days are far, far behind me. However, I'm quite sure that Catholicism still teaches "good works" as the path to heaven vs. the Protestant "faith alone" path.

Catholics don't need to be "born again" or "saved" - they are already saved by virtue of belonging to the "One True Church".

Irish_Dem

(45,215 posts)
43. Yes exactly, when we were baptized we entered the Church and its teachings.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:01 PM
Jan 2018

We had First Communion, and Confirmation, that reinforced the Church and its teachings.
We had been saved when Christ died on the cross for our sins, etc.
I never really understood the concept of being saved or born again.

Irish_Dem

(45,215 posts)
47. And yes, Catholic charities were important, and Nuns helped tame the west.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:04 PM
Jan 2018

Catholic nuns started schools and hospitals in the wild west, when priests were too afraid to venture out of their cushy parishes. The Catholic nuns were respected and developed a big streak of independence which the Popes in Rome have always hated.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
48. Both are required in Catholicism.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:08 PM
Jan 2018

For the small is the path and narrow the gate...

Faith and works are required

raging moderate

(4,276 posts)
88. Protestants also believe in good works.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:03 AM
Jan 2018

Faith without good works is dead faith. Book of James. New Testament. Fundamentalists just get carried away about their little "Born Again" ceremony, with the required formula statement. They feel neurotically worried about anybody they meet who might not have "really" accepted Christ as Lord and Savior. Some of them go through it several times, avowing that they did not "really" believe it the last few times but this time it really meant something to them. Luckily it is short and easy to say.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
98. No. Sola fidelis was one of Martin Luther's statements
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:54 AM
Jan 2018

Along with sola scriptura.

I'm not saying many don't ascribe to doing good works, but no Protestant religion believes good works (or even living your faith) is required for Salvation.

KatyMan

(4,118 posts)
51. Amazing how ingrained
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:15 PM
Jan 2018

those prayers are to Catholics. I haven't been to Mass in a decade and could still recite one.

greatauntoftriplets

(175,654 posts)
52. Totally agree.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:15 PM
Jan 2018

I went to Catholic high school, too, and have been in recovery for 40-plus years. Catholics don't ask questions like that. It's more an assumption that because you've been baptized, you live a good life and are in the fast lane to heaven.

rickford66

(5,491 posts)
67. Once you're RC, you're in the club.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:54 PM
Jan 2018

Even if you leave, you're on the rolls somewhere. No saving needed.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
80. Humm,, I also learned the Apostles' Creed as a Presbyterian in the 1950s.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:47 PM
Jan 2018

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
9. Yep
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:31 PM
Jan 2018

Catholics are Christians but you'd be very hard-pressed to find a conservative baptist who believes it. Hell, when I was independent, fundamentalist baptist, we thought southern baptists were liberal backsliders.

glad I got out of all that bullshit.

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
10. Yes, we do.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:32 PM
Jan 2018
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
12. Bag of worms
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:33 PM
Jan 2018

Catholics and most Prtotestants subscribe to the basic formulation of the Nicene Creed (Apostles creed).

What any particular individual claimed adherent might say, of course varies wildly.

Conservative Protestants will tend to emphasize salvation through the sacrificial atonement of Christ. If those aren’t the first words - or something like it - out of your mouth, then they will assess you as “unsaved”. In their view, Catholic experience tends to convey an impression that individual merit - is good works or lack thereof - is a substantial component of whatever they might mean by “being saved”. It is not uncommon for Catholics to respond to Protestant “gotcha questions” in ways the Protestant will take as a lack of belief in salvation through Christ alone. They will then proceed to “help the Catholic become saved” primarily through explaining what the Catholic already knows, but which is pretty much assumed as taken for given in he Catholic context.

But you can ask random Christians of any stripe what it means to be Christian, and get a range of answers.

underpants

(182,064 posts)
14. Thanks
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:35 PM
Jan 2018

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
35. If you really want to have fun with a sola scriptural Protestant
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:56 PM
Jan 2018

Ask them to rectify

" Thy name is Peter, and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell will not stand against it".

You can get some fun word play out of that one.

 

ollie10

(2,091 posts)
13. Catholics do.....but that is not all that is required of the faithful
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:35 PM
Jan 2018

It is also required to do social justice

LeftInTX

(24,417 posts)
15. Evangelicals don't believe that Catholics are "saved"
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:36 PM
Jan 2018

meow2u3

(24,738 posts)
69. This Catholic doesn't believe RW evangelicals are "saved"
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:01 PM
Jan 2018

I think they're sinfully presumptous and are risking hell for thinking they're predestined for heaven, no matter how outrageously arrogant their behavior.

I've confronted more than my share of un-Christian pride from RW evangelicals.

raging moderate

(4,276 posts)
89. Actually, you are talking about Fundamentalists.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:08 AM
Jan 2018

Or "Fundamental Christians," as they call themselves. Many Evangelical Lutherans are free of the dogma and spiritual pride exhibited by Fundamentalists. Having spent a few years among them in adolescence, I think I should let you guys know how much fear they feel. That is what is driving their fervor. They were afraid when I asked too many questions. I "sounded like an evolutionist." When I won a college scholarship and moved away to college, I left. I am now a happy United Methodist. Our signature sign is a casserole.














meow2u3

(24,738 posts)
113. You have a point
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:49 AM
Jan 2018

I was talking about bigoted fundies.

The only reason "Fundamental Christians" don't think Catholics are Christians is that they're projecting--and, subconsciously, they know it.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
16. Well I'm no expert but I'm going to mention a difference
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:37 PM
Jan 2018

The Catholics make a confirmation as they turn to becoming older but are baptized at birth with no say
I think the Baptist are baptized when they are of an age to declare their own acceptance of Jesus
And the declaration maybe of the woman on her own , sort of "to testify" to that as an adult is what the friend asked for? And the women did testify to him being in her heart of her own will?

Depends on the church how preachy the mission aid was

moriah

(8,311 posts)
19. The Apostles Creed :
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:43 PM
Jan 2018

"I believe in God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty; from there he will come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting."

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
20. Catholics absolutely believe Jesus is the Lord and savior
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:44 PM
Jan 2018

Ultimately where Catholics and other denominations differ is on the nature of works (grace), the sacraments (especially Eucharist), and the sinlessness of Mary.

SweetieD

(1,660 posts)
21. Protestants don't believe that Catholics believe or worship Jesus. It is crazy.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:44 PM
Jan 2018

moriah

(8,311 posts)
24. It's the new Anabaptist movement.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:48 PM
Jan 2018

You have to have some mystical salvation event -- usually they encourage their youngsters to profess such soon after the "age of accountability" so they can get fully dunked early, but a sprinkle and hours of lessons before confirmation at puberty just isn't enough for them.

raging moderate

(4,276 posts)
91. Most of us do, Dear.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:14 AM
Jan 2018

Don't worry, my Sibling in Christ. We know. What wonderful times we will have Upstairs someday, laughing at the ignorance that kept us quarreling. I think we were sent into our separate churches, because we couldn't pray nicely together.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
116. :)
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 09:08 AM
Jan 2018

I know I called often enough on our heavenly father (actually any power) to bring peace to our rear seat on vacations, but I might have worried more about methods. Just perhaps, though, hand-held video games are heaven sent. I know our grandchildren's parents think so.

safeinOhio

(32,461 posts)
22. Sorry, I have to laugh
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:44 PM
Jan 2018

Which branch of Catholic was she.

American Catholic Church in the United States
American National Catholic Church
Antiochian Catholic Church in America
Augustana Catholic Church
Archdiocese of the Old Catholic Church of America
Argentine Catholic Apostolic Church
Apostolic Catholic Church (Philippines)
Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church
Catholic Charismatic Church of Canada
Catholic Christian Church
Catholic Life Church
Catholic Mariavite Church
Celtic Catholic Church
Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association, in the People's Republic of China
Christ Catholic Church
Communion of Christ the Redeemer
Community of the Lady of All Nations
Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen
Ecumenical Catholic Church
Ecumenical Catholic Communion
Evangelical Catholic Church
Fraternité Notre-Dame
Free Catholic Church, in Germany
Imani Temple African-American Catholic Congregation
Independent Sacramental Movement
Istituto Mater Boni Consilii
Liberal Catholic Church
National Catholic Church of America
Mariavite Church (not to be confused with the Catholic Mariavite Church)
Most Holy Family Monastery
Old Catholic Church
Old Catholic Church in Europe
Old Catholic Church of America
Old Catholic Mariavite Church
Old Roman Catholic Church in North America
Old Roman Catholic Church in America
Orthodox-Catholic Church of America
Palmarian Catholic Church
Philippine Independent Church, also called the Aglipayan Church, in the Philippines
Polish National Catholic Church, in the United States and Canada
Rabelados, traditionalist Catholics in Cape Verde
Reformed Catholic Church, in Venezuela
Reformed Old Catholic Church
St. Stanislaus Kostka Church (St. Louis, Missouri)
Society of St. Pius V
Traditionalist Mexican-American Catholic Church
True Catholic Church
Ukrainian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church
Venezuelan Catholic Apostolic Church

Those are only American Sects of Catholic Church

So, I also have to ask which branch of Baptist are you.

I'll just list American ones

* Alliance of Baptists
* American Baptist Association
* American Baptist Churches
* Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America
* Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
* Baptist Bible Fellowship International
* Baptist General Conference
* Baptist Missionary Association of America
* Central Baptist Association
* Christian Unity Baptist Association
* Conservative Baptist Association of America
* Continental Baptist Churches
* Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
* Enterprise Association of Regular Baptists
* Free Will Baptist
* Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship
* Fundamental Baptist Fellowship Association
* Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America
* General Association of Baptists
* General Association of General Baptists
* General Association of Regular Baptist Churches
* General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
* General Six-Principle Baptists
* Independent Baptist Church of America
* Independent Baptist Fellowship International
* Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America
* Indian Bottom Association of Old Regular Baptists
* Institutional Missionary Baptist Conference of America
* Interstate & Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association
* Landmark Baptists
* Liberty Baptist Fellowship
* Macedonia Baptist World Missions
* Mainstream Baptist Network
* National Association of Free Will Baptists
* National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
* National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc.
* National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the U.S.A.
* National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
* National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
* North American Baptist Conference
* Old Regular Baptist
* Old Time Missionary Baptist
* Original Free Will Baptist Convention
* Primitive Baptist Universalists
* Primitive Baptists
* Progressive National Baptist Convention
* Reformed Baptist
* Regular Baptist
* Roger Williams Fellowship
* Separate Baptist
* Separate Baptists in Christ
* Seventh Day Baptist General Conference
* Southern Baptist Convention
* Southwide Baptist Fellowship
* Sovereign Grace Baptists
* Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists
* United American Free Will Baptist Church
* United American Free Will Baptist Conference
* United Baptists
* Unregistered Baptist Fellowship
* World Baptist Fellowship
* Worldwide Baptist New Testament Missions

underpants

(182,064 posts)
37. Southern Baptist Convention
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:57 PM
Jan 2018

They're on TV too.

No idea about the woman in Puerto Rico.

Wow that was quite a list.

safeinOhio

(32,461 posts)
49. There are differences with-in the SBC too.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:12 PM
Jan 2018

In 2012, a LifeWay Research survey of SBC pastors found that 30 percent of congregations identified with the labels Calvinist or Reformed, while 30 percent identified with the labels Arminian or Wesleyan. Ed Stetzer, president of LifeWay Research, explained that "historically, many Baptists have considered themselves neither Calvinist nor Arminian, but holding a unique theological approach not framed well by either category". Nevertheless, the survey also found that 60 percent of SBC pastors were concerned about Calvinism's impact within the convention.[68] Nathan Finn notes that the debate over Calvinism has "periodically reignited with increasing intensity", and that non-Calvinists "seem to be especially concerned with the influence of Founders Ministries," while Calvinists "seem to be particularly concerned with the influence of revivalism and Keswick theology."[69]

from wikipedia

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
23. Yes Catholics do believe it...but evangelicals think Catholics are not Christian. Hubs
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:45 PM
Jan 2018

liked the modern church music and had friends in that sort of church in Georgia. I hate them. So we attended an evangelical church briefly. They once said that Catholics were not Christians and Gays needed to be punished or killed in the same sermon and then finished up with a story about the dangers of wine...I had run into the paster with wine in my cart a Krogers. I got up and left. Sat in the car...refused to go back. Hubs didn't like it either so we went to the Lutheran church instead. It was marginally better. But all the Southern churches have this obsession with being born again. I once told my neighbor...I was baptized, confirmed and married in church. I don't need to be born again, I always believed.

safeinOhio

(32,461 posts)
25. Pretty much depends
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:48 PM
Jan 2018

on which evangelist you are talking to... Don't worry I won't list them.

whathehell

(28,941 posts)
44. Which is a bit of a joke, considering
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:01 PM
Jan 2018

they can trace their origins back to the apostle Peter and compiled the original Bible..They are actually the first Christians



whathehell

(28,941 posts)
26. Of course they do..
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:49 PM
Jan 2018

I was raised Catholic, and over the years, I've been confronted with all sorts of strange misconceptions about the religion, mainly from members of the more conservative Protestant sects.



mcar

(42,179 posts)
27. It's the "born again" thing
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:51 PM
Jan 2018

After my devout Catholic mother died of cancer at age 62, my idiot "born again" former SIL said "it's too bad she couldn't have been saved before she died." My sister and I just about blew a gasket.

Idiots.

anneboleyn

(5,611 posts)
56. Born again is an evangelical Protestant ritual. Not Catholic and not mainstream Protestants
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:23 PM
Jan 2018

Of course Catholics believe that Christ is their lord and savior. There is no question about that whatsoever. Yes I attended catholic school, mass for many years, was confirmed, etc and studied medieval Catholicism in grad school.

The line the OP is describing is a specific ritual followed by evangelical Christians. It simply means that a Christian must say the specific words “I accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior” — this is called “being saved.” Generally they do this as part of an “altar call” —the evangelical pastor calls up to the altar those who want to “be saved” and then the group (or sometimes individuals) recite the phrase.

Yes, it is that superficial. Catholics and mainstream Protestants don’t believe that one MUST say those words to be “saved” as they have their own prayers and rituals that indicate that one is a full, believing Christian.

mcar

(42,179 posts)
70. Yes
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:04 PM
Jan 2018

raging moderate

(4,276 posts)
90. Actually, you are talking about Fundamentalists.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:12 AM
Jan 2018

They are the people who are rigid about that "born again" ritual. Luckily, it is short and easy. Having spent several years in a Fundamentalist church in adolescence, I think I should let you guys know that these people are rigid because they are afraid. They come from a very narrow segment of our population, very isolated culturally, and they are afraid to think anything different lest they fall from grace. Some of them believe that they can never lose salvation totally, but think how ashamed they would be in front of everyone in Heaven if they failed to uphold what they are sure is the exact truth of everything.

Towlie

(5,305 posts)
28. The divide was due primarily to Martin Luther.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:51 PM
Jan 2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

And on this day in particular, I'd like to point out that Martin Luther was quite possibly the only famous person in history to have someone named in his honor who turned out to be a much greater man than he was.

dlwickham

(3,316 posts)
100. George Washington Carver
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 01:16 AM
Jan 2018

unless you're allergic to peanuts

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
29. Sigh...So here's what this is about
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:52 PM
Jan 2018

A very Protestant belief is sola fidelis...only faith, which means that Protestants believe that only faith in Jesus can result in Salvation.

Catholics reject this and believe that "faith without works is dead". In other words, it is not enough to BELIEVE you must also ACT.

Thus, you will hear many Protestants ( especially Calvinist) take an oath "I believe and accept the Lord Jesus as my personal savior". Once that oath is taken, they are "born again" and "saved". What they do from that point on is irrelevant. They are now numbered among the chosen.

Catholics say that's a crock of shit.

Hai capito?

Towlie

(5,305 posts)
34. And both can prove their respective positions with copious Bible quotes.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:56 PM
Jan 2018

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
39. No. Catholics do not and never have believed in using the Bible
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:59 PM
Jan 2018

To "prove" this point. Sacred Tradition is as important. They would say Jesus never said "Go write everything I said down in a book and use it as a guide".

Thus the huge chasm between Catholic ( including other rites and Orthodox) vs. Protestantism.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
54. True, the Bible is not really a big thing with Catholics
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:20 PM
Jan 2018

My parents are very devout Catholics and I don't know if they even have one. If they do they certainly never sit and study it, or quote verses or any of that.

underpants

(182,064 posts)
42. Thanks
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:00 PM
Jan 2018

I grew up as a Presbyterian which was to my observation kind of half assing it.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
46. I have a real issue with Calvinism
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:03 PM
Jan 2018

I don't know if there is an afterlife, but if your point is determined before you leave the womb, what's the point?

It seems un- Christian to me to believe your fate is already sealed.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
63. James 2 verse 24
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:41 PM
Jan 2018

A favorite verse of those who dispute the doctrines of grace.. Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Romans 4:5 But him that worketh not, but believe on him that justifieth the ungodly,his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto God imputeth righteousness without works.


What about James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point he is guilty of all.

The law is not just the laws of Moses it is anything God has ever commanded from eternity pass


Trust in your works to save you and be guilty of all because God demands perfection. We protestants don't trust in our works to save or to even contribute to our salvation instead we trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross.


Philippians 3 verse 9 And be found in him, not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness of God by faith.

The narrow path is Christ alone most people believe they have to do something contribute to their salvation. So that would be the broad path.



Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
71. So here is where this falls apart,
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:06 PM
Jan 2018

Once saved, always saved. It let's them off the hook.

Of course the natural conclusion is that if you have proper faith, works will naturally follow. They don't teach that though do they? It explains a lot of their behavior.

They also seem to ignore that a camel shall pass through the eye of a needle before a rich man enters Heaven.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
75. Eternal security is biblical truth
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:29 PM
Jan 2018

Psalms 125 verse 1 They that trusteth in the Lord shall be as Mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever

Regarding Mathew 19 verse 24. Being rich keeps no one out of heaven. If that were the case both Abraham and King David would be in hell both were extremely wealthy for their time. Jesus anwered his disciples after they asked who can be saved in Matthew 19 verse 25 in Verse 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, with men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

The conditions for salvation are impossible for men to meet. Therefore they must be imputed with the righteousness of the God-man the Lord Jesus Christ.

Of course protestants believe believers have good works, but the are not to be considered the evidence or the assurance of salvation.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
77. Funny how sola scriptura can ignore Jesus's own words
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:37 PM
Jan 2018

The Protestants allowed divorce too. Plus the whole Peter, rock, church thing they ignore

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
81. Peter is not the rock Christ is
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:53 PM
Jan 2018

Protestants keep Christ commandments because he keep them for us perfectly. That is what your not understanding about the imputed righteousness of Christ. Christ not only died for us and rose again, but he also lived the perfect sinless live for us. Christ loved God with all his heart and loved his neighbor as he loved himself and that very righteousness is accredited to his sheep.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
87. Nope. That's not what He said.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:03 AM
Jan 2018

How about "Go forth and hear men's sins. If they are forgiven on Earth, they will be forgiven in Heaven...


Evangelicals just make shit up as they go.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
92. That is what the bible teaches
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:18 AM
Jan 2018

Who Christ is the foundation of the entire Christian faith and that includes his work and his person. Until you stop treating the bible like it's instruction manual you will never get it. The bible is a book of spiritual truth where scripture interprets scripture.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
95. I don't want to get it.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:32 AM
Jan 2018

I don't believe the bullshit the Protestants are selling. I don't believe the bullshit the Catholics are selling either, but at least their bullshit was the original bullshit.

Catholics and Orthodox have a succession to Peter, translated the Bible, and at least say you have to look at the traditional Church and not just a book written at least 80 years after it all happened.

Protestants changed the Vulgate, have Bob Jones University, and literally take the Bible word for word, unless it contradicts what they want like divorce, Peter the rock, rich men getting into Heaven, confession, and transubstantiation.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
99. The Waldensians used a bible translated long before
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 01:15 AM
Jan 2018

Jerome translated the Vulgate. The oldest bible is the Vetus Latina also known as the Old Latin not the Vulgate. Protestants did not change the Vulgate either. Erasmus was a Catholic and remained one until his death and even William Tyndale never formally left the Catholic Church.Not accurate to claim he changed the Vulgate anyway. The Vulgate is Latin and Erasmus made a Greek New Testament and the Catholic Church itself also came out with a Greek New Testament at the same time. Nowhere in the bible is it stated Peter had authority over the other apostles or that he had primacy over the Church in the bible. In fact at the council of Jerusalem James sided with Paul over Peter Acts 15.

Yes some racist heretics who are protestants have Bob Jones University so you got me on that one.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
101. If Andrew knew Christ before Peter, why is Peter called
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 01:54 AM
Jan 2018

The first?

Who was called the rock? (Oh yeah, you blow that one off because if it's true, you gave to be Catholic/Orthodox, and you're not. It's inconvenient.)

Who was given the keys to Heaven?

Who was given authority to bind or loose?

Furthermore, the KJ removed the Apocrypha. Constantine himself called for the foundation of the Catechism at Nicea, and the Bible as Catholics know it ratified in 397 at Carthage.

It wasn't the King James version and the fundies we're not there.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
103. The Apocrypha was never considered inspired scripture
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 02:34 AM
Jan 2018

The translator notes in the original KJV which had the Apocrypha in it and most English bibles before it make it clear. The Apocrypha was there for historical purposes. The Catholic church did not even include the Apocrypha into their canon until the 16th century council of Trent. Never mind the fact the Catholic bible only has 11 Apocryphal books or Deuterocanon to you while Eastern Orthodox has 15 of them.

The rock Jesus was referring to was who Jesus was who Peter correctly identified so the doctrine was the rock not Peter himself in that same passage the word translated for Peter is Petroj and the word for rock is Petra 2 different words in that same verse.

Peter was given the authority to teach lawful and unlawful that is what is meant by bind or loose. Only God can forgive sins.




Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
104. The Apocrypha was noted as early as 382 at Council of Rome
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:06 AM
Jan 2018

Sorry. Thanks for playing

And on edit, that's the biggest bullshit about these Baptists/fundies. They claim sola scriptura that the Bible was "divinely inspired" thus true.

However, the Bible they follow was not written until 1611 and differs from the Catholic Bible.

They also throw out 400 years of traditional because even the Catholics did not agree until Nicea and Carthage

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
105. The council of Rome was a local coucil and not an
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:36 AM
Jan 2018

Ecumenical and therefore lacked the authority to determine the canon. Protestant don't believe their bible was written in 1611. They believe the bible they read is translated from the original languages into English and that the correct text are used and meanings of each text are conveyed properly. They believes this by presupposition. Canons of scripture are also believed by presupposition Really I don't why your complaining about the KJV sense it is a whole lot closer to the Vulgate than most of your modern Catholic bibles

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
106. If it's divinely inspired but only the one you believe
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:40 AM
Jan 2018

And oh yeah, ours came after the fact.

Plus what does it matter if there was "authority" or not? You don't follow the Pope anyway.

If there is a God, I'm pretty sure he's more scientist than philosopher. I don't think He gets hung up on loopholes.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
107. Yeah that basically what presuppositions are
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 03:50 AM
Jan 2018

77 books in the Catholic bible is a presupposition too. The bible itself doesn't define how many books it should have or what version of it is correct so these things must be believed by presupposition. No one disputes that Apocryphal books existed in antiquity, but the evidence suggest the Catholic Church did not add those books to their canon until the 16th century as response to the reformation.

My mother is a Catholic so I don't harbor the same resentments towards Catholics as many protestants do.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
109. The Catholic Church did not officially declare them scripture
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 05:13 AM
Jan 2018

Until 1537, but had included them for over 1000 years.

Don't go breaking a commandment now...

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
78. "God is not an [expletive deleted]" (rhymes with mindian giver)
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:39 PM
Jan 2018

Actual quote from the pastor at the church I grew up in. He also told racist jokes (with full-on N-word) from the pulpit. Ours was a once saved always saved sect. But we heard of Baptists and other denominations that thought you could lose your salvation.

We did very explicitly learn that once you gave your heart to Jesus and accepted his gift that you would naturally want to start with the good works. Visitation, witnessing, all manner of things to help the church. That was one way they gauged if a person was "really" saved. The pressure to conform was intense.


I'm an atheist but I often have fun teasing my christian younger brothers that I was once saved so I'm always saved. No take-backs lol. Bugs the shit out of them.

mvd

(65,143 posts)
31. Yes, but I do not remember it being stressed a whole lot
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:54 PM
Jan 2018

The seven holy sacraments are very important in the religion.

jmowreader

(50,419 posts)
32. That phrase means her Catholic friend converted to Fundamentalist Protestantism
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:54 PM
Jan 2018

still_one

(91,807 posts)
33. I am Jewish, but from growing up in the midwest, from what I observed that innuendo came
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:54 PM
Jan 2018

from anti-Catholic Christians

MaryMagdaline

(6,848 posts)
55. You observed correctly. Evangelicals do not
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:21 PM
Jan 2018

Acknowledge Catholics as Christians. This is an American phenomenon they are transporting to Latin America. My Jewish friends have now been led to believe that Catholics are not Christians. I try to point out, when they say are you Catholic or Christian, it is like asking someone if they are Jewish or Reformed. Only worse, because Catholics were before protestants.

still_one

(91,807 posts)
62. I personally have never met a Jewish person who believed that Catholics were not Christians. When
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:35 PM
Jan 2018

I was in school I had a roommate in the dorm who was Assembly of God, and he pushed that nonsense, along with trying to convert me.



MaryMagdaline

(6,848 posts)
64. I live south of mason dixon line
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:41 PM
Jan 2018

Evangelicals have immigrants from Latin America believing Catholics are not Christian. The idea is spreading.

MurrayDelph

(5,271 posts)
73. Five years ago, I had an employee
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:11 PM
Jan 2018

who was an Orthodox Jew (or at least cosplayed one at the time) who had grown up in Louisiana. On more than one occasion growing up, he was asked by an alleged born-again how he had removed his horns.

MaryMagdaline

(6,848 posts)
74. Oh God. When our family moved to Georgia
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:20 PM
Jan 2018

One of my classmates said to me "Mary, you're catholic or Jewish one ..."

Unfortunately my husband, who was Jewish, grew up in Queens, was taunted by what he referred to as "Irish catholic thugs." I learned from him that more Catholics participated in the Holocaust than did Protestants. I grew up in liberal Catholic Churches. I realize now that we were taught about the Holocaust and warned against anti-semitism probably because of guilt for the church's complicity in Europe.

Religion is divisive.

Dorian Gray

(13,463 posts)
38. We do....
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:59 PM
Jan 2018

but we don't speak that way. The woman probably agreed to it to get her to STFU and get out.

She totally took credit for an easy win.

underpants

(182,064 posts)
45. Ha!
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:02 PM
Jan 2018

That's why I threw that in there. I felt that in the conversation.

Iris

(15,623 posts)
41. Evangelicals believe you have to invite Jesus into your heart. Catholics believe he is already ther.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:00 PM
Jan 2018

It’s a few gift from God. At least, that’s what I learned growing up Catholic in. Baptist town.

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
94. Not quite. Catholics, unlike evangelicals, believe in infant or childhood Baptism, where the parents
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:29 AM
Jan 2018

request God's grace on behalf of the child.

Catholic baptism, however, is open to any adult who hasn't been already baptized, and the Church recognizes other Christian baptisms.

Iris

(15,623 posts)
110. Baptism is different from being saved
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 06:07 AM
Jan 2018

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
112. It isn't different in the view of Catholics. To Catholics, people are "reborn" in Baptism.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 08:08 AM
Jan 2018

Born-again Christians think they are "born again" when they are saved.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm

Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God

AJT

(5,240 posts)
50. Catholics are baptized as infants and don't believe you have to be born again.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:13 PM
Jan 2018

FYI - Catholicism is the original Christian faith, so yes they believe Jesus is the lord and savior.

meow2u3

(24,738 posts)
72. Baptism IS being born again!
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:08 PM
Jan 2018

You're absolutely right!

MaryMagdaline

(6,848 posts)
53. Yes. Jesus is Lord and Savior but
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:16 PM
Jan 2018

Evangelicals have a special moment when they accept Jesus as their lord and savior and therefore they are saved. It is self-evident to Catholics that Jesus is Lord and Savior. (EL SALVADOR is Catholic, no?) Catholics confirm their faith at about 13 years of age and it is the Nicene Creed or Apostles Creed that they have to confirm, part of which acknowledges that JEdus died for our sins (thus savior) and he sits at the right hand if the father (lord). Evangelicals believe in faith alone, so the affirmation of "accepting Jesus as my lord and savior" is a big deal. They are in if they believe.

If you believe you get to heaven on faith alone, the day you were saved is everything. If you don't have that born again experience, they dismiss you as Christians. Catholics kinda snark back that they always believed; no need to be born again.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
61. Confirmation has little to do with the Nicene Creed
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:34 PM
Jan 2018

It is the Sacrament of receiving the Holy Spirit, like the Apostles did at the Pentecost, when they were given the gift of tongues as the Holy Spirit descended upon them.

MaryMagdaline

(6,848 posts)
65. God my catholic education was bad.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:46 PM
Jan 2018

I thought we were confirming our faith because at baptism we were unable to do so. CCD is no substitute for catholic school I guess. My parents went to catholic school kindergarten to university. I should know something.

Thank you for the clarification.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
66. It's okay. Most of the Catholics out there really don't understand
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:50 PM
Jan 2018

WHAT Catholics believe or why they believe it.

Hey, at least you know now

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
97. You are both right. Confirmation IS about confirming our faith because
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:38 AM
Jan 2018

our parents requested the grace of the Holy Spirit for us at our baptisms. Confirmation is another sacrament where Catholics believe they are receiving the Holy Spirit.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
57. I grew up Catholic in Baptist country
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:26 PM
Jan 2018

And was frequently told that I didn't believe in Jesus, that I never read the Bible, and wouldn't go to heaven.

Back then, however, we Catholic children were sent out during "Mission Week" to "convert the heathens," that is, the Protestants.

But they don't do that anymore. The Fundies seem to still have stupid ideas about Catholics, but you know, most of them voted for Trump, so they have stupid ideas about anything.

(For the record, of course Catholics believe that Jesus is the Lord and Savior. The fundies are stupidly wrong. They might have heard some theological reasoning for this idiocy-- the Catholics do infant baptism, and there's no "born again' nonsense. (You can get baptized at any age, but they baptize babies-- the babies don't choose to be baptized. This is supposed to be important. Catholics are "confirmed" around 12-- that is, they get to choose at that age if they want to continue in the church.) Also, Catholics believe in more than faith -- they think a believer in Christ should follow his example and do good works. This is also against fundamentalist doctrine, which holds that you must be "saved," and that's all that matters.

But none of that matters -- the fundies don't most of them understand the differences anyway. They just want to hate big groups of people, and there are a lot of Catholics, and many of them are non-white and not American. So that gives the fundies many people to hate.

brooklynite

(93,626 posts)
58. A friend of mine was son of a Baptist Missionary who came to the Philippines...
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:28 PM
Jan 2018

...to convert the heathens (the 95% of the population who are Catholic).

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
60. It's the Baptist Thing
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:30 PM
Jan 2018

I grew up Southern Baptist. Anyone who didn't walk down the isle and profess that they were accepting Jesus and then get Baptized was going to hell. So pretty much anyone who wasn't a Baptist was going to hell in terms of how people where I grew up were raised.

Trust me on this. The Baptists are far more about show than about actual commitment to living the life Jesus taught.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
68. Jesus did come here to teach us how to live
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 10:56 PM
Jan 2018

nor did he come here to tell us to keep the law. He came here to atone for the sins of his sheep.

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
79. Ha, my Methodist cousins are fond of joking about baptists
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:42 PM
Jan 2018

"Why do you have to take at least 2 baptists fishing with you?"
because if bring only 1, he'll drink all your beer.


Unfortunately I learned it first-hand from my asshole stepfather who was wayyyyyy into the show for church and being a fucking piece of shit at home.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
82. That is hilarious - and so dead on!
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:55 PM
Jan 2018

I can't remember the joke about how Baptists always recognize eachother - except at the liquor store.

I'll have to google that one.

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
83. That's another one the cousins told me
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:57 PM
Jan 2018

but I can't recall it either lol. My cousins are some of my favorite people.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
84. Here it is
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:59 PM
Jan 2018

Jews don't recognize Jesus as the son of God, Protestants don't recognize the Pope, and Baptists don't recognize each other in the liquor store.

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
86. Yes!
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:01 AM
Jan 2018

good lookin out.

BigDemVoter

(4,149 posts)
76. They do. . .
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 11:32 PM
Jan 2018

But those fundies have to wave their hands around and pray for Jayzus to enter their hearts and souls. . . . That's what she's talking about.

OAITW r.2.0

(23,655 posts)
85. I am agnostic on this.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:01 AM
Jan 2018

CV-

1958-1963 - Alterboy
67-71 - Jesuit High School
71-75 Jesuit College

Practicing ex-believer in any God, socially constructed.

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
93. Of course they do. But some non-Catholics think they worship the Pope.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:25 AM
Jan 2018

Also, Catholics believe in the Trinity -- God the father, God the son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit -- one God in 3 manifestations.

Evangelicals put all the emphasis on Jesus.

LAS14

(13,741 posts)
96. It's not the Catholics that are exceptions, it's the evangelicals.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:37 AM
Jan 2018

Evangelicals typically expect there to be a particular moment in a person's life when they "accept the Lord Jesus Christ." Mainstream Protestants and Catholics don't typically expect this of people. I grew up as a Methodist in a town with dozens of evangelical churches. We were the radicals because we couldn't identify a moment in time when we "accept Jesus Christ."

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
102. ALL religions agree on one basic belief:
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 01:55 AM
Jan 2018

"My religion is the true religion and your religion is heresy."

ColemanMaskell

(783 posts)
108. That's overly cynical
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 04:23 AM
Jan 2018

While a lot of trouble between people appears to be due to religion, those same people could disagree with equal enthusiasm over other issues if they didn't have religion. Leaders find religion a convenient tool, if available. Where it is not available, they can turn some other convenient tool to the same ends. Groups of people can become dangerously enthused over communism, anti-communism, apartheid, xenophobia, nationalism, Trumpism or any demagoguery, fear of almost any kind.
And people of divergent religions can get along. The current Pope and Dalai Lama probably find themselves agreeing on most earthly considerations, though not on the afterlife. When I used to read religious texts from different religions I was struck by seeing that some form of the Golden Rule appeared as a teaching in every one of them if you read long enough to get that far, at least that was true for the ones I looked at. The analogy that stuck with me -- it was from either a Buddhist or Hindu source I think -- it said to envision a circle with the ultimate truth (or call it enlightenment, or salvation) at the center of the circle. People start out at different points on the circumference of the circle. (The analogy works as well if you prefer to imagine a sphere, with people scattered on the surface.) Each different religious path is like a radius leading from the outside, where the people are, to the center, where the goal is. As people follow such a path and draw nearer the center, they also at the same time draw nearer to each other. At the start of the path two people might be completely opposite in their views, and take paths that start very far apart. But the more progress they make on the path toward the truth at the center, the closer they come to each other. Hence people who follow completely different religions find that as they develop in their spiritual progress they find more and more in common. Love your neighbour. Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie.
Twelve gates to the city, you might say.

JNelson6563

(28,151 posts)
111. It was an easy win.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 06:46 AM
Jan 2018

It reminds me...I used to manage a Jacques Torres chocolates. Was talking to a customer one day and languages came up. Told her I thought Spanish and Italian sounded similar. She was Italian. She laughed and said that they are alike and she took Spanish in HS for the easy A. That's what this reminds me of.

Vinca

(50,150 posts)
114. The elderly woman was probably being polite.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 09:03 AM
Jan 2018
 

Stanley Roper

(25 posts)
115. I like to think Jesus accepts me
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 09:07 AM
Jan 2018

as his homeboy

Kaleva

(36,093 posts)
117. Even Satan believes in Christ
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 09:21 AM
Jan 2018

He or It is not going to heaven.

There's a difference in just believing in compared to actually accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior and tuning their life over to Him.

Christianity is full of people who believe in Jesus but don't accept Him as their Lord. The charlatans one sees on tv are prime examples.

Thus, in your OP, you are asking two different questions:

" Do Catholics NOT accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior?"

and

"Don't Catholics believe that Jesus is the Lord and Savior? "




DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
118. Locking....
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 09:34 AM
Jan 2018

Discussions about Religion are restricted in this Forum. Please post this in the Religion Group

From the SOP of the General Discussions Forum:

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum.
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