I keep hearing the economy is booming?

[imanamerican63]

So then why are we not hearing that the price of oil not going down and the prices in the grocery stores are at an all time high. I went to Walmart last and bought a few groceries and by the time I left, it cost almost $30.00 & I went the cheapest price I could find!

[handmade34]

1. the economy IS booming

for those already doing ok... go figure

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. Wealth & income inequality keep growing and rapidly becoming biggest societal problem. . . . . nt

[AJT]

2. For most items, as wages go up prices are pushed up.

Also as demand goes up prices go up. That is what normally happens. Of course the economy hasn't been normal for awhile so who knows.

[Gabi Hayes]

6. What are you talking about? Wages up?

Real average weekly earnings increased 0.2 percent over the month due to the increase in real average hourly earnings combined with no change in the average workweek. Real average hourly earnings increased 0.4 percent, seasonally adjusted, from December 2016 to December 2017.Dec 1, 2016


Real Earnings in December 2017 - Bureau of Labor Statistics

[AJT]

9. We are at full employment, which happened at the end of the Obama administration,

so wages are starting to go up, but inflation is eating most of the higher wages.

[Gabi Hayes]

11. Understood, but this boom epitomizes the fallacy of supply side economics

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/opinion/zombies-of-voodoo-economics.html

[AJT]

22. It also doesn't take into account that the boomers are retiring

and there aren't as many young people to take the jobs, which will make it an employee market and companies will need to complete for qualified people.

[Gabi Hayes]

23. Watch for a new improved scheme to privatize Medicare and SS

The deplorables might think 2xabout that

Naaaah

They’ll eat their shit sandwiches and think it’s foie gras in between the slices

[AJT]

24. That's been the evil dream of the GOP since the new deal was enacted.

[Gabi Hayes]

26. Smedley Butler!

American Liberty League

[True_Blue]

28. Prices always steadily increase no matter what the wages are

[TheFrenchRazor]

52. Bingo. the greed of the 1% knows no bounds. nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

3. Stock market is booming, at about Obama's pace. Economy not so much, not as much growth as Obama era

Obama sustained growth for 8 (eight) years.

Let's see if tRump Presidency survives a second year, let alone maintains economy's modest growth.

Don't forget, the Trump Gang Regime's budget projections depend on growth exceeding Obama's for years.

[RandiFan1290]

5. We were also told that corporate tax cuts & deregulation would bring prices down. nt

[smirkymonkey]

29. Hah, Hah, Hah!

Yeah, that will happen. Any minute now.

[Ohiogal]

37. I'm still waiting ......

[Kilgore]

7. It depends where

I'm no Trump supporter, but what I see in my area is encouraging. Our economy is driven by manufacturing and many companies have added second shifts, added overtime or have opened idled facilities. This means more/bigger paychecks and we have seen some prices rise locally. Nice to see folks working again.

[Ohiogal]

8. I also see lots of "We're Hiring" signs

.... for part time jobs

.... for jobs paying $10 an hour

.... for jobs with no healthcare benefits

[honest.abe]

10. Significant regional differences but overall average is heading in positive direction.

DC area is definitely booming. Lots of jobs here and salaries on the rise. But I suspect that is not the case in the midwest and smaller cities and towns.

[JayhawkSD]

12. An increasing economy increases costs.

"why are we not hearing that the price of oil not going down"

Wrong question. We would expect the price of oil to increase in an improving economy, and it is doing so. Oil prices were down because the economy was depressed and less was being bought. Great quantities were sitting in storage with no buyers. As the economy improves more is being bought and the price increases. As a matter of fact, the price of oil is what's called a "bellweather," meaning the raise and fall of oil prices is a signal of the state of the economy.

"prices in the grocery stores are at an all time high."

Again, wrong question. Inflation is expected in an improving economy. As a matter of fact, government is poised to deliberately slow the growth of the economy because it fears that too rapid growth will cause "runaway inflation." There has been confusion, in fact, about why our recent robust growth has caused as little inflation as it has.

[imanamerican63]

15. It is a general question and not wrong to question how they frame booming!

Thank you for taking the time to break down my thread, but I all ready know that answers! I was pointing out the fact that it's not booming for most people!

[JayhawkSD]

35. Given that almost 40% of the work force is not working...

...I would certainly agree with you. But in asking why oil prices are going up and why grocery prices are high you are not successfully making the point you claim to be making, because both items are actually the sign of an improving economy.

To make the point wish to make, you might instead point out that some 38% of the working age population are not working but are not counted as "unemployed" because they are counted instead as "not in the work force." That allows us to have an unemployment rate of 4% and to maintain the pretense of "full employment" and a booming economy.

Or you might point out that, while wages have risen by 2.3% in the past months, inflation has risen by 2.5% in the same period, which means that in real terms wages have declined by some 0.2% which is not an improving economy in terms of standard of living for the working class.

[imanamerican63]

41. I'm not going to get in tit for tat discussion, my point won't make you happy!

Read my 2 post and live with it!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

56. 40% of the work force is not working?

Where in the world do you get that number?

[JayhawkSD]

62. It's called the "participation rate."

Persons participating in the workforce is at 63% currently. That means that 37% (which I referred to, quite accurately, as "almost 40%," are not participating in the work force and are therefor not working. This is data presented by the United States Government in reports from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

63. But most of those are probably not looking for jobs for lots of reasons.

Disabled, in school, stay at home parent, and so on and so forth. That percentage tells you nothing about whether or not they want to work.

Heck, back in the day when married women, especially those with children, didn't typically work, the participation rate would have been under 50%, since not all working age men were working either.

That percentage all by itself doesn't tell us a whole lot.

[JayhawkSD]

64. Thank you for educating me.

I never thought about someone not wanting to work, thank you for bringing that to my attention. I've never heard of anyone being disabled, or in school or being a stay at home parent.

Actually, my mother was a stay-at-home parent, but that was seventy years ago, and it has been a long time since one person working could support a working class household. The participation rate has historically been well over 70% for several decades. Economists have been saying since 2000 that the rate is depressed by workers who, "are discouraged and have quit looking for work" and by "unemployed whose benefits have expired and who no longer have an incentive to report that they are seeking employment," so the participation rate tells us quite a lot. Today's economists just don't want to hear it.

As my grandmother used to say, "Don't teach your elders how to suck eggs."

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

65. That discussion/argument

about the real unemployment rate is constant and ongoing. This sentence: "unemployed whose benefits have expired and who no longer have an incentive to report that they are seeking employment," puzzles me in that I don't understand why someone whose unemployment benefits have expired would no longer report if they're seeking employment. Or does the department of labor simply not query those people and make assumptions that may or may not be accurate.

I also notice that "working age population" is defined as being from 15 to 64. An awful lot of people ages 15-18 are still in high school. And a reasonable number up through age 23 are still in school. A lot of them do work, but that definition seems to assume that everyone is in the work force starting at age 15.

I'm also being reminded of the blanket statement I see too often that no one over the age of 60 (or 50 or 40) can possible get a new job. I guess I'm the only person in North America to be hired after age 60. In fact, I got several different jobs in my sixties. And a couple of years ago I wound up turning down a job -- the owner of the company wanted to hire me on the spot -- because their definition of part time was 30 hours a week, and mine was 20. She did wind up hiring me on a temp basis a couple of times. And I was already 66/67 at the time.

Yes, I understand that it's really hard to get comparable work in many fields if you're let go after a certain age, and I get it that someone who used to run an IT department at a big company isn't going to be very willing to take most of the jobs I was willing to take. But there are still jobs out there.

[Pachamama]

17. Germany's Economy is thriving and so is the standard of living - and their groceries are on average

1/3 - 1/2 the cost compared to us....

How does that work in economic terms compared to us?

Or is this just a US Economic explanation....applicable only to the USA, because we are so special...

[GulfCoast66]

50. I was in France and Switzerland for 3 weeks this fall

With the exception of cheap wine I found the grocery prices somewhat to significantly higher than here.

And since Europe has an open boarder I can’t see them being that much lower.

[Pachamama]

51. Switzerland is notoriously expensive for everyone and everything....

Don't know where you were in France, but that is not true that they are significantly higher, unless you were going into a little corner store/convenience store in Paris and then yes, things would be much higher and have a markup.

In general, across the entire EU, the prices of food are much lower than in the US for food and goods than just wine and beer.

Keep in mind too that in less than a year, your dollar also went from $1.07 per Euro to $1.22 per Euro....the prices for Europeans as a whole actually have been stable and in some cases went down on food....

[GulfCoast66]

57. Agree you can not count Switzerland

I as in Lyon and we rent apartments so we can do some cooking. To save money but mainly I live to cook and cooking from their street markets is a blast.

Often I find seasonal veggies cheaper that here, but meat is really expensive. Way expensive in markets but still a lot even in Carrefour.

Things like paper products seem similar to here except they suck. In most things I favor the French. But beef and toilet paper we kill them.

And their clothing is very, very expensive.

Planning on going to Venice and Avignon next fall. Will pay more attention to prices.

[Pachamama]

60. "In Beef and Toilet Paper we kill them..."

And our toilet paper is softer....

[logosoco]

13. I know nothing about economics, but I do understand English.

I do not see anything "booming". Things around my neck of the woods have been about the same as they have been for a couple of years now. That does not seem like a boom.

The raise my husband got at the first of the year has not covered the increase in prices we are seeing.

I take any "unemployment" number with a grain of salt. There are a lot of people with jobs, so they aren't unemployed, but the jobs are dead end, low pay and no health care benefits. Also, I quit my last job 10 years ago because of physical problems. Since then I have been taking care of my grandsons while their parents work. They do have fairly decent jobs, but they work A LOT! My sister is in a similar situation, so those numbers don't really reflect everyone who is unemployed.

We are lucky that we can pay our bills (although we can't really use our health insurance because it has a high deductible).

I think young people are still having to go into debt for college. I see other people not able to go to the doctor because of the out of pocket expense. I see mainly low paying jobs, there are a lot of those. I don't think I would describe any of that as a booming economy.

Also, I see many folks talking about the economy. I wonder if it will even matter in a few years if the current administration does not acknowledge climate change and continues to push for fossil fuels and coal, and if they keep cutting environmental regulations. The earth has little notice for the economy.

[Ohiogal]

30. Hey logosoco

Your exact situation sounds more typical of what's going on around the country.

My husband is retired, but they tell us he won't be getting any raises in his pension for the forseeable future, not even COLA. (he's a retired public school teacher). Prices keep going up despite it all!

I haven't worked in over ten years due to a bout with cancer. Right now I have no health insurance at all. Before this happened, I was my ill mother's primary care giver until she got so ill that I couldn't do it any more. Of course, I did that for free, even though it was difficult and time consuming.

My adult sons are doing well, but they spend a LOT of time working. They have very little time for anything else. Two of them have a one-hour commute each way to get to work, since there wasn't anything around here closer for them.

I'd like to know exactly who is benefiting from this wonderful economy!

[CountAllVotes]

14. $5.99 for a jar of Best Foods mayonnaise

New 30 oz. jar (ripped off again!) =
Water bill = doubled
Trash bill = doubled
No COLA
NO NOTHING!!!

[Pachamama]

16. I keep seeing the price of food rising and it becoming hard for most people to afford groceries

Last edited Sun Jan 21, 2018, 02:53 PM - Edit history (1)

That is not a booming economy when the essentials become unattainable ....

And meanwhile, when I visit family in Europe and go to a grocery store, food is 40-75% percent less....

Milk and Eggs are about the same, primarily to support the farmers. But other foods such as bread, meat, yogurt, coffee etc. are much much cheaper. Case in point just with bread, chicken, yogurt :

Bread-

Trader Joes Baguette in N. California - $1.99 (the long skinny baguette bread)

vs

Aldi or Lidl Baguette in Germany, Spain - 39 Euro cents (equivalent to 48 cents - note: Aldi owns Trader Joes)


Chicken -

Trader Joes Non-organic chicken breasts in N. California - $5.99 per lb

vs

Aldi or Lidl Non-Organic chicken breasts in Germany, Spain - 4.99 Euro per Kilo/1000g (which is equivalent to 2.2 lbs and converted to $6.11 for 2.2 lbs - so $2.78 per lb)


Yogurt-

Trader Joes Organic Vanilla yogurt in N. California - large container with 32 oz - $3.99 and small individual 6oz servings about $1.20

vs

Landliebe organic yogurt (yummy yogurt from Bavaria in amazing flavors including Chocolate, straciatella, hazelnut, cherry, strawberry etc) - 1.59 Euro for 1000g glass jar (That's $1.93 for 35 oz, so about $.055 cents an ounce)

Smaller size yogurts in equivalent to our 4-6oz packages for organic yogurt cost generally about 49-59 euro cent, which is about $.50-$.72 per container


I could go on and on, but the net of it is this: When I go into a grocery store in Germany, I can walk out of the store with enough groceries that is with lots of dairy, meats and vegetables and bread etc for a family of 4 for the week for about 1/3-1/2 of what we are paying here in the US. And why are stores that sell in the US like Trader Joes that is owned by the German supermarket chain Aldi, so much higher here? Its not transportation costs is it? Gas costs more in Europe and is taxed high.

Aside from healthcare costs here in the US and cost of health insurance, feeding ourselves is becoming out of reach....

[Ohiogal]

31. Remember that vile Jason Chaffetz

Insinuating that poor people are poor because they spend all their money on I-phones and other "luxuries"???

Oh did I ever want to punch him in the nose! I would love to see these sanctimonious Republicans live on a middle class or lower class wage!

[smirkymonkey]

32. I haven't had a raise in years and I am finding basic food costs almost prohibitive.

Everything is so damn expensive - even if I do without meat. Vegetables, cheese, bread - it has all gone up substantially. I am shocked by how much I spend and how little I get for it. Doing a lot more with rice and beans, since those are the food items that have managed to stay relatively inexpensive.

[Ohiogal]

36. I hear you

My husband fishes Lake Erie so we can eat fish occasionally. The price of good fish in the grocery stores is jaw dropping. We do try to fit salmon into our budget occasionally, trying to stay healthy y'know. But just try and find frozen fish that wasn't farm raised or processed in China! I won't eat that crap! I had cancer ten years back, and I really believe the hormones they used to put in chicken and beef causes a lot of breast cancer, so I make sure my meat is hormone-free, and THAT costs more, too.

We grow a garden every summer and preserve much of what we grow ... it's not that big, but we get enough for the two of us.

I guess pretty soon it will have to be cat food and Ramen noodles .... Lord help us!

[smirkymonkey]

39. I really wish I could grow my own food.

I live in a city so I don't have an opportunity. It's great that you have access to fresh fish! I love fish, but can't afford it. Fortunately, I am a pretty good cook so I can make decent soups, stews and skillets w/ beans, lentils, rice and vegetables. I still buy meat every once in a while, but I will become a complete vegetarian before I ever resort to cat food! LOL!

[Ohiogal]

44. I canned 38 qts.

Of tomatoes last summer and also canned hot peppers in oil, froze some summer squash, and got a little bit of endive to cook and freeze. Dried some parsley too. Every little bit helps, plus you know it's 100% organic!

Do you have any good farmers' markets in your area?

The price of good fish in stores is ridiculous. Nutritionists tell you to eat it once or twice a week, they neglect to tell you that you have to take out a loan to pay for it! And my guys eat a lot!

[smirkymonkey]

49. I grew up that way. We always had a big garden and picked berries in the woods.

My mother canned and froze everything and made jam and pickles so that we had garden food year round. We have a farmers market in Boston but it's during the week during working hours. There is the Haymarket on Fridays and Saturdays which is really cheap but it's kind of second rate produce that they can't sell at markets. It's good if you are going to make a stew or soup or something like that.

It sounds great what you put up! I would love to be able to do that. Another problem is that I live in a very small apartment and don't have much storage room, but every little bit helps!

[Ohiogal]

58. To me,

sometimes it's a pain..... "Why did you plant so many goddam tomatoes!" But I have to keep reminding myself that not everyone is lucky enough to have access to fresh produce ..... Last summer we had a bumper crop of cucumbers, I had a mountain of them on my dining room table for a month. We donated about 3/4 of them to a food pantry. I want to keep on doing that this year, too. (donating some to the food pantry).

[smirkymonkey]

59. That's a great idea! Good for you!

There is nothing better than fresh garden produce! I'm sure the donation was very much appreciated.

[TheFrenchRazor]

53. been going on for a long time. price of bare essentials goes up much faster than wages. nt

[Pachamama]

61. When the price of bare essentials slows down or is at a steady pace with wage increases....

That's when I think the statement that our economy is booming is true....

Yes my stock and retirement portfolios have been crushing it....but its irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and when I look at how few people have "stocks"....

[Bradical79]

18. Food prices and national economy aren't as tied together as they were

It's not a simple relationship with "the economy".

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=5017914&page=1

[RussBLib]

19. Does a good economy...

Justify any and all injustice?

We can overlook everything else as long as we have a good economy?

[Ohiogal]

33. That's an excellent point, RussLib

Evidently Republicans think that if we have a good economy, that's all that matters.

[aikoaiko]

20. The corporate-level economy is booming.

[shockey80]

21. Thank you Obama.

[workinclasszero]

25. It's booming for the 1%ers

Walmart is shutting down Sam's Clubs all over the country, coal mines are shutting down and Carrier who took a 7 million dollar bribe from the state of Indiana and Dump to save jobs, sent them all to Mexico anyway.

But yeah the corporate thieves on wall street are making bank on the republican/Dump/Putin take down of America that's for damn sure!

[drray23]

27. it depends on your perspective.

If you are fortunate enough to have a 401K and good investments, then yes it is booming. My 401K posted a 21% return last year..

If you are not so fortunate and are living paycheck to paycheck its obviously not the case. Wages have yet to start raising enough to make a difference. Hopefully they will since we are reaching full employment, thanks to president Obama.

[Ohiogal]

34. Well, gosh! (forehead slap)

Just tell all the poor folk to start themselves a 401k! Problem solved!!

<sarcasm>

[moondust]

38. I'm wary of gov't numbers now.

Given the chronic lying, his dubious health report, etc., and the fact that he has claimed in the past that the jobless rate was fudged so he obviously thinks that's possible and would probably do it himself if it served to glorify him, I'm not sure how much to believe anymore when it comes to gov't numbers, jobless rate, GDP, etc.

[Yupster]

40. In general, if the economy is booming

prices will go up, not down.

Just standard supply and demand. If the economy is booming it uses more oil, and therefore the price of oil will go up, not down.

[gvstn]

42. I think it has been said.

The minimum wage or working wage should have doubled over the last 10 years. That the Federal minimum wage is $7.25 is ridiculous. How is it possible to feed the kids and keep the lights on at $14,000 a year? Everything else goes up but not the minimum wage.

[Ohiogal]

47. Yet

the Rethugs fight raising the minimum wage tooth and nail. Guess they like giving out all those food stamps and Medicaid, huh?

[Vinca]

43. It's booming if you're heavily invested in the stock market and that's about it.

Other than that, I'm not seeing much "boom." The last 2 times I've gotten groceries I've been downright shell shocked. It costs the same to fill up the cars. Heating oil hasn't gone down. A lousy part for the pellet stove cost $500 a couple of weeks ago. We'll never get ahead unless I discover a gold mine on the property.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

45. What about all the layoffs were hearing about too?

Most notably, those announced right after the Tax scam passed?

[VOX]

46. Old GOP Formula: Take an economy made healthy by Democrats; then slash regulations to *juice* it...

-Then add plenty of right-wing chest-beating to take full credit;
-Run it hard into the ground, and when everything craters (and it will, as sure as the sun sets), blame the “Democrat Party” in some way;
-Leave the country in tatters, but let Democrats do the clean-up, so any tough and necessary (but unpopular) belt-tightening will all be on them;
-Let steep for 4-8 years;
-Repeat process when the piggy bank is full again, and when America’s ready to be conned into another toxic relationship with yet another Republican administration.

[kentuck]

48. Indeed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/09/01/trumps-job-numbers-trail-obamas-in-2016-and-for-that-he-can-blame-himself/?utm_term=.ea92fafe98b4

[mvd]

54. Inequality level is a much better indicator of how good..

the economy really is. Though unemployment is low, wages have been stagnant and many people have to work multiple jobs and/or flex jobs. Things improved a bit under Obama, but President Shithole will erase that and more.

[crazycatlady]

55. My side hustle is booming

And I give Trump credit for it. My Etsy store had it's best month ever and I made four figures yesterday.

Thank you Trump for allowing me to make a few bucks on pink hats.