The Dems will get curb stomped until November if they back down.

[LuckyCharms]

I'm sure not in favor of a shutdown. It's hurting people I am close too, and it's hurting all of us.

My feeling is that it has come to the point of this sacrifice in order to stop the Republican machine.

I know a lot of you will disagree...but no quarter should be given by Schumer.

The time for whining, compromising, bending over, taking the high road, and acquiescing is over. Give them this, and they'll just take more.

[renegade000]

1. Dems will win if everyone shows up at the polls...

That's it... Guess what, we all collectively have the power to do that independent of what happens in Washington.

[LuckyCharms]

2. Agree. but they will do terrible damage between now

and November.

[Cary]

3. True

What's the point of all the armchair quarterbacking? It's fun, while watching sports.

This isn't sport. Our representatives need us to behind them.

[Wwcd]

42. Mistake made by so many in 2016. They cheered, rallied, donated &

yet when election day arrived they never were motivated to get out the door & vote.

What was all that rah rahing for then, only to drop the ball on the most critical day this country has ever seen.

[Eliot Rosewater]

55. Yep, what we need is every man and woman in this country to realize their LIVES

are at stake if they dont throw out the Nazi's.

Just yesterday I think I saw a post here where a progressive was lecturing how we NEED the far left and better realize that, so my question is what in the holy FUCK do we have to do or say to get them to vote for ANY democrat?

[Wwcd]

68. They have missed the whole point with talk like that.

They got what they campaigned for/against in 2016.
Now we get to find a way to dig ourselves out of that glorious hole BEFORE we can even think of having a stable soverign society ever again.

Talk about supporting chaos. They got what the asked for.
Fkers

[Cary]

69. We cannot count on radicals to be anything but radical

We have to win without them.

[pressbox69]

4. We have the numbers.

We can't be afraid to hammer them with our numbers.

[Cary]

70. Our numbers can beat their lies

[moose65]

76. Eyes on the prize

The election in November is ALL that matters. By then, this shutdown will be a distant memory. We have to keep our eyes on the ball, register, and encourage everyone to VOTE. That is the only thing that will make a difference!

[Justice]

5. Democrats are in Minority. What they've done here is raise DACA to top of mind for everyone. If

GOP doesn't move to help Dreamers people will say, what a minute I support Dreamers. 89% of country supports Dreamers - why are these handful of GOP not fixing the issue.

[LuckyCharms]

6. And the GOP will get what they want anyway. n/t

[Demsrule86]

11. They won in 16. Elections have consequences...we had all those who whined about emails...Stein.

Sarandon, Turner and others. this was a terrible election to lose...just awful. And it is unfair to blame the Democratic elected who were knee capped by some on our side for not being able to stop the GOP at this point...I think they have done a great job with very little power. The answer is to always vote Democratic period end of story.

[LuckyCharms]

17. I'm not blaming.

Rather, I'm saying that you can't negotiate with Republicans.

[Demsrule86]

44. How else will the shutdown end? Do you really believe the GOP will simple give us everything we

want? It doesn't work that way.

[LuckyCharms]

46. No, but what does work several million people throwing

shade at Republicans (and it will be Republicans) because a shutdown has gone on for weeks and the party who controls the 3 branches of government can't get it resolved.

[Wwcd]

47. + a million. This exactly describes the problem of 2016

"And it is unfair to blame the Democratic elected who were knee capped by some on our side for not being able to stop the GOP at this point"

They have now what the voters gave them to work with.

Next time fking pay attention to the real issue, rather than the sound bites that had little actual merit.

[L. Coyote]

7. In 2017, not one Dem amendment was allowed a vote in the Senate.

We have to recognize, and we do, that there is going to be only one chance to bring DACA to a resolution, in the budget bill. Otherwise, they will just say, KMA. And, we don't need to allow ourselves to be extorted into a bunch of shithole racists funding the wall to get it done either.

[Demsrule86]

9. What makes you think they will cave? They will simply paint us as the bad guys with some help

from Media. I say we take our stand and hope for the best. But it may not work.

[LuckyCharms]

16. Who cares if they paint us as bad guys?

when the dust settles, people are going to remember who was in charge. The rest is just near term noise.

[Demsrule86]

45. I don't disagree with you...what I am saying is it may not work...no matter what we do.

We take our stand and try like hell. But let's not bring back the circular firing squad if it doesn't work.

[LuckyCharms]

50. My opinion is that it will work if the Dems stand strong...

I know you think I am bashing the Dems, but I'm not. I'm standing WITH the Dems. We control nothing, yet we are managing to give them a fight. I want that fight to continue in order to minimize long-term damage to this country.

[LuckyCharms]

19. Yes. McConnell said he "intends" to address DACA.

Mitch's "intentions" aren't worth anything.

[Demsrule86]

8. Yeah I disagree...you have to face facts...we may not win this battle as we don't have the house,

the Senate or the presidency...honestly I am sick of the Democratic bashing. This is Democratic underground. The entire point has to be to win. I applaud the principled stand our folks are taking...but for fucks sake...let's look at the facts. We have little chance of winning this...I still hope for a miracle...but.

[LuckyCharms]

14. You seem to think I am bashing Democrats.

You'd be wrong.

[Cosmocat]

31. People have a pretty big misunderstanding of the moment

As you highlight, there is NOT going to be any kind of full resolution of DACA here ...

[rso]

10. Daca

As I understand it, even if dems agree to a new CR until Feb. 8, they still have the option to not vote for another CR on Feb. 8, so that dem leverage still remains. Am I right on this ?

[LuckyCharms]

18. That seems right, but...

it just extends the agony for the dreamers.

[mopinko]

12. curb stomped, for those that dont know

is where someone puts you face down, against a curb on the street, then stomps on the back of your head.
you lose several teeth.

[LuckyCharms]

20. Yes. My entire opinion here is based on

my belief that if the Dems show political weakness, they will go after Medicare and Social Security thinking they will not have any formidable resistance. The political equivalent of a curb stomp.

[beachbum bob]

13. its not about winning, a shutdown is about negotiations, certainly its not about "stopping" the GOP

machine....only Nov 2018 can that happen, so calm down

[LuckyCharms]

15. I'm very calm.

I won't be so calm when they come after Medicare and Social Security.

[Demsrule86]

21. If you are saying Democrats will hold their 'feet to the fire' and not vote...I say you are wrong.

The Dems are trying but sensible Dems know it might not work. What a plan don't vote for Democrats because they couldn't stop the GOP...but by not voting you enable the GOP to do worse. Seriously?

[LuckyCharms]

22. Well, either I lack reading comprehension or you

are not making yourself clear. Did I say not to vote?

[Demsrule86]

25. Blaming Democrats for things the GOP does...make other less likely to vote... and hurt

our chances...how about a post about evil Republicans?

[LuckyCharms]

27. You're reading things into my OP that are not there.

I'm not going to argue. We are on the same side., but we are having some kind of disconnect. Have a nice day.

[workinclasszero]

58. No shit

I'm damn tired of people posting threats against the democratic party about the REPUBLICAN shutdown of the government!

WTH don't they post this garbage on Freakrepublic or Stormfront or Redstate???

The democrats are doing all they can do with a damned REPUBLICAN controlled White House and Congress!

WTF don't some so called liberal/progressives(?) understand that?? The attacks against the democratic party on this board are getting out of hand IMO.

[LuckyCharms]

62. Nobody attacked anybody. n/t

[workinclasszero]

64. "The Dems will get curb stomped until November if they back down"

...no quarter should be given by Schumer.

The time for whining, compromising, bending over, taking the high road, and acquiescing is over. Give them this, and they'll just take more.

Looks like one to me.

No condemnation and rage against Shitler and his damned party but loads of it for Schumer and the democratic party who are pretty much powerless at this time and doing the best they can.

[LuckyCharms]

65. Next time I'll make sure to present all possible sides of my argument

before posting. I expressed my opinion that the Dems should hold strong. If you read my other responses, you will see that I am expressing support for Dems. But you knew that.

[Demsrule86]

23. They have the power....we are trying.

But here you go again...why not post...if the GOP succeeds in destroying the chance for DACA kids to stay why I will make sure they get curb stomped in 18....no instead...the Democrats curb stomped...so not right.

[LuckyCharms]

24. OK. Have a nice day.

[Demsrule86]

26. You too.

[LuckyCharms]

28. Thanks. n/t

[Cosmocat]

29. No, they won't and further

the only bad outcome here is digging in right now, because THIS is absolutely NOT going to result in any kind of resolution to DACA.

You have a pretty significant misunderstanding about what can get done here if you think it does.

[LuckyCharms]

30. The DACA can has been kicked down the road.

So, if not now, when?

[Cosmocat]

35. Look - republicans are raging assholes

People of good conscience agree on that.

In order to "resolve" DACA it would require legislation that both the House and Senate agree to, and POTUS to sign it.

That is NOT happening with Dems not allowing the government to be funded.

No ifs, ands or buts.

[LuckyCharms]

39. Really? The difference in our opinions is that I believe that this can force their hands,

and it looks like you don't believe that.

In spite of all the noise, all of the propaganda, Republicans know that they will be damaged beyond repair if they allow this to continue. Do you think they cannot be forced off their stand that they will not negotiate DACA until the government is re-opened? Do you honestly believe that? Why? Because they say so?

[Demsrule86]

54. That is what I am hoping for too...I hope to God you are right...My blood runs cold when I think of

the DACA recipients being deported in many cases to their deaths.

[Cosmocat]

66. Because I live in reality

see ...

They took the deal.

[LuckyCharms]

67. Yes, I see. I still have the same opinion.

And I live in reality also, but as always, I certainly appreciate the personal attack.

[Demsrule86]

49. It is my opinion that those of us that can need to take DACA kids into our homes and hide them much

as the Jew were hidden during WWII...and pray we take the Senate and the House in 18. I don't think the GOP will cave. I hope I am wrong. I am not saying we shouldn't fight like hell, but we have to recognize what is happening here. If the GOP wanted to ...Daca could be voted on...the aren't going to.

[LuckyCharms]

52. I would take in a dreamer without a second thought.

The thing is though...if we have reached the point where we have to hide people in our homes, all the more reason for the Dems to not move on their stance.

[Demsrule86]

56. That is a good point. I would take Dreamers too. I don't know if Dems will hold or not...the

pressure to believe McConnell (who is a fucking liar) must be enormous. It is DACA's only chance I think.

[LuckyCharms]

61. Unfortunately, it does not look like they will hold firm.

We'll probably be going through this again on Feb 8, unless there is some kind of firm agreement to settle DACA.

[OliverQ]

32. According to Dana Bash, Dems are close to agreeing

to pass the 3 week CR that McConnell and Graham want. Pretty disgusted if they do. DACA is finished if they agree, because McConnell will never allow a vote on it before March. Sounds like Dems never learn that you can't negotiate with Republicans.

[LuckyCharms]

34. I agree. Republicans have to be forced against a wall and not released...

until ANYTHING gets done. That's the way they "govern".

[Bengus81]

41. I agree,more "if we play nicey nice so will Republicans"...........

This will not be voted on,there will be a reason--how about a LIHOP "terra" attack or other BS?? Dems are being had if Turtle has convinced them of a vote in early Feb.

[LuckyCharms]

43. Yep. I was just sitting here wondering what bullshit excuse...

McConnell will use when he does nothing.

[sfwriter]

33. They'll compromise for CHIP and a promise to vote on immigration by Feb 8.

The Republicans will, AGAIN, fail to bring something to a vote, and we'll do this again. Each time digs the Republicans, not the Democrats, in deeper.

What's really insane is that DACA would get 60 votes in an open vote. The Republicans know this and have been holding those kids hostage.

[LuckyCharms]

36. Spot on. If they give in...

it won't matter if they get a promise signed in Mitch's blood. He won't do a thing about DACA.

[Cosmocat]

37. T H I S ... Please people read THIS post

The only bad move is digging their heels in on this now.

[member12]

38. I'm starting to think that Democrats miscalculated; this shutdown will hurt us more than GOP'ers

Maybe best to discuss immigration at another time.

[LuckyCharms]

40. Human nature being what it is...

tells me that people will not remember the nuances of this in a few weeks/months. All they will remember is who was in charge during the shut down. They will also remember that the "great negotiator" failed to negotiate away a government shutdown.

[Demsrule86]

53. I know we are on the same side...and I don't disagree that backing down could harm our chances

if Dems are blamed...but this has to play out some way...how do you see it ending well for us.

[LuckyCharms]

59. I see it ending well for Dems if they stand their ground.

We both know that we have no power. The fact that we have been able to stop the Republicans on this issue is amazing, even though it took a government shutdown. We have them on this issue. We took a stand. A lot of people don't seem to think so, but we have them by the balls, so to speak.

Ignore the noise, ignore all of the propaganda, ignore the "Schumer shut down talk", we have a chance to force their hand on DACA. If we squander that now, not only was this shut down damaging, it was for naught, and they will know we were unable to stick to our guns.

Schumer took a stand. When you take a stand, you should stick to it. Backing down after a reasonable stand is taken is showing weakness and invites bullying on other issues.

That being said, I have a feeling that a compromise will be made by the Dems. So they will kick DACA down the road until Feb 8 maybe, then it will get forgotten about with no legislation, and these dreamers will get even more ulcers.

[member12]

73. What did we stop exactly?

[LuckyCharms]

77. Nothing, now.

[Demsrule86]

51. No.Thanks for the input...oh and welcome to DU for real.

[samnsara]

48. dems know the sacrifice and we are willing to make it

[Bengus81]

57. Republicans didn't give a SHIT about the Military being shut down for 17 days in 2013

All they cared about was trying to KILL Obama care. SHUT DOWN,LOCKED up from October 1st thru October 17th. Now this SHAM is in day 2+ 12 hours and everyone is ready to cave to Republicans.

Oh but wait....DACA will be revisited on Feb 8th--Turtle said so!!!!

FUCKING LIES!!!

[LuckyCharms]

60. Exactly.

That's why I say fuck 'em.

[MFM008]

63. So do I

Maggots only concern is a self congratulatory party and selling his worthless shit that's it.
You know a DACA kid...help them pack.

[Runningdawg]

71. I wasn't happy when I heard Schumer put the wall on the table.

Give that wall ANY legitimacy and you have normalized the Trump presidency. If that happens Democrats might as well forget holding a majority or sitting behind the oval office desk, for a very long time.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

74. I doubt it

Trump will keep reminding people how unlikable he is through the rest of this year

[Vinca]

75. In this particular instance, Dems were in a lose-lose situation.

Republicans, unexpectedly, put out a valid message about Dems supporting everything in the bill, but voting against it anyway. That's what was selling well. The 6 year CHIP extension is a BFD and there's a promise of a vote on DACA. If that vote doesn't come to pass, there will be another chance to shut it down on the horizon.