Chuck Schumer has never been my favorite Democrat, but . . .

[markpkessinger]

. . . I think he makes a persuasive argument here:

http://player.theplatform.com/p/7wvmTC/MSNBCEmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_maddow_dschumer_180123

There seems to be an assumption by some of my fellow progressives that if Democrats adopt the same nihilist tactics Republicans have used, and used to their advantage, that these same tactics will inure to the benefit of Democrats. But I am not at all convinced that politics operates in quite the same way on the Left in this country as it does on the Right.

[Wellstone ruled]

1. It is afterall,all about the

number of votes. We are seeing what happens when people in our own Party stay home. Anyone who has been associated with any Campaign know this little phrase "if you did not vote,well you do not have the right to bitch". My favorite is,I would rather bitch than switch.

[brush]

2. Yep, we don't have the numbers in Congress to force anything.

No one is sure what will happen come Feb. 8 on DACA.

60 votes is still needed on that and/or gov. funding, right, which will required some Dem votes.

So, I'm not clear, is the shutdown option still on the table?

[Wellstone ruled]

3. This is the bottom line.

We as Dems control nothing and it is because our Party Voters stayed home. Hunch most believed the Bull shit being pumped by the Media that Certain People on various Ballots were a shew in. Well as someone who worked the trenches,that seemed to be the most lame brain excuse I heard .

[Wounded Bear]

5. DACA, by itself would not need 60 votes...

Unless someone fillibusters it.

It needed 60 last week because Dems tried to attach it to an appropriations bill. The Repubs offered CHIP instead and Dems basically settled for that.

Shutdown could still be on the table, but public support for shutdown is not sufficient to make a strong case for DACA. Last I heard, 81% or so said DACA is not worth shutting down. Right now, we're working on a McConnell promise, which, needless to say, is not secure ground.

[Demsrule86]

7. And even if the Senate votes for it...will the House take it up?

I think the one thing the Dems did wrong was not to make it clear that we won't get DACA from a shutdown. Schumer was talking on Rachel's show about how the last ditch effort will be to mobilize the country after deportations begin. People should understand that there is little Democrats can do as we don't have the presidency or Congress. People had unreal expectations...I mean DACA is protesting Schumer...who would do DACA in an hour if he could. We need to look at the situation realistically.

[Wounded Bear]

8. Yeah, well, that is the $64,000 question, isn't it...

If it was a clean bill, maybe...but the chance of that is pretty miniscule too. Such a popular issue never goes through clean, they always get tons of bullshit riders.

[Demsrule86]

11. I expect you are correct. Schumer said he has to approve the bill and it would be clean...but who

knows.

[Demsrule86]

6. We get a vote and yes the shut down is on the table, but if the House won't bite ...I don't see the

point.

[OnDoutside]

9. The way I see it is that if the Senate pass it, and a Republican controlled House shoot down a 90/10

issue, it all adds to the November momentum, even worse if Trump doesn't back it.

[Demsrule86]

10. That is how I see it too...but I think there are some who think the Dems could pull

out a magical win...if only they tried harder. It is not true of course. When Hillary lost, I said those who contributed to this loss had blood on their hands and they do.

[OnDoutside]

12. +1

[Demsrule86]

4. Cruz shut downt the government in order to get rid of the ACA...didn't work...and neither will

it work for DACA.